Post 9mKBk7eMwLZQT6s8aO by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
(DIR) More posts by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
(DIR) Post #9mK1QyB8vnWS39QkvQ by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-27T20:03:34Z
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BBC building Alexa-style virtual assistant, to be called Beeb."The BBC already works with other voice assistants, such as Alexa and Google Assistant, but it is increasingly pushing users towards its own products, **so it can collect more data**."Emphasis mine.Source:https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/bbc-launch-alexa-style-virtual-19013257#SurveillanceCapitalism #privacy #DeepState #BBC
(DIR) Post #9mK1zo30agRwlQEl84 by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
2019-08-27T20:09:42Z
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@fitheach Maybe it was naive of me, but I never thought the BBC would get into the data-collection business. I thought they had some charter with the British government that made them a public service entity.
(DIR) Post #9mK2YfF7JnADalWRWa by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-27T20:16:11Z
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@orn They do have a charter. However, they are, and always have been an extension to the British state.They also have a commercial arm that sells products both in the UK and worldwide.I wouldn't have an Alexa or Google Assistant in the house, nor would I use Beeb for the same reasons. This may be 2019, rather than 1984, but I'm not allowing Big Brother into my home.
(DIR) Post #9mK8dBISgSR3tAcjhI by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
2019-08-27T21:24:01Z
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@fitheach Yeah, some of the IT people at work are saying the same thing. "Neat that we have the tech for this, but no way is that going into my home."The XKCD comic regarding Alex seems relevant here:xkcd.com/1807/
(DIR) Post #9mK8eNBxwXD14S9aqW by jamie@fosstodon.org
2019-08-27T21:24:27Z
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@fitheach Sounds like a fabulous use of the TV license.
(DIR) Post #9mK9NOsgVgk9LAbcQ4 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-27T21:32:35Z
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@orn XKCD always seems to nail the problem in a few sentences.I have a feeling most non-techie people don't see the problems with Alexa & co. I've never actually tried to talk people out of using Alexa, but I have had similar conversations about using Facebook & Google services. I'm usually met with blank stares and comments like: "what's the problem".
(DIR) Post #9mK9VnjpyWEekbTPSi by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-27T21:34:06Z
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@jamie All that money they saved by scrapping the free TV licence for OAPs has been put to "good use".
(DIR) Post #9mKBk7eMwLZQT6s8aO by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
2019-08-27T21:49:28Z
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@fitheach That's changing a bit. I can't remember which news org did it, but they basically got a hold of recordings that Alexa made of people when they weren't aware and played those recordings to the users. Naturally, the users were a bit shocked. I'll try to find the link.
(DIR) Post #9mKDiqoOG7ilrd556G by orn@friendica.customvisualdesigns.com
2019-08-27T21:53:56Z
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@fitheach I think this is the article:www.theatlantic.com/technology…...each of these companies failed to tell users they had a hot mic on their wrists or in their living rooms.
(DIR) Post #9mKDir0RXJMWT0iht2 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-27T22:21:14Z
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@orn They might have told users, but it was probably buried deep in their privacy policy, in language "normal people" wouldn't understand.From the article: "intellectual debt: the phenomenon by which we readily accept new technology into our lives, only bothering to learn how it works after the fact." People have been performing intellectual debt for decades when it comes to things like car insurance. They only discover how a policy really works when they have an accident.
(DIR) Post #9mLZJklZzU4s1bADtQ by FloatingGhost@ihatebeinga.live
2019-08-28T13:58:01.529232Z
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@fitheach fun fact, thunderbird tagged the internal announcement email for this as a scamwhich is pretty funny19-08-28-145704.png
(DIR) Post #9mLcAc0bTwJ47TWY8O by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-08-28T14:29:57Z
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@FloatingGhost I think Thunderbird is correct.
(DIR) Post #9mTtmuf37CBm4tEF7I by cubicgarden@mastodon.cloud
2019-09-01T13:20:21Z
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@switchingsocialYes I do and it's very much the opposite of surveillance.Have a look at bbcrd's work on the bbc box project@fitheach
(DIR) Post #9mTtmuxpzLDZ1A1FOy by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T14:25:00Z
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@cubicgarden Are you saying this statement from The Mirror is untrue?"The BBC already works with other voice assistants, such as Alexa and Google Assistant, but it is increasingly pushing users towards its own products, so it can collect more data."@switchingsocial
(DIR) Post #9mTuvUmSo6GKN6LxDM by ak@lgbt.io
2019-09-01T14:37:47Z
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@fitheach @cubicgarden @switchingsocial I'm tired of having to sign in just to listen to the radio. I understand signing into the TV iPlayer because of the requirement to hold a TV Licence to watch it, but I shouldn't need to sign in to listen to a radio station.I used to use the TuneIn website to bypass the requirement, but the BBC is about to block access via that site: https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/37e4e3f6-fbd2-4c14-8d72-7f7139641582(I have a radio on my desk. I only bother with the website for out-of-area radio, eg. R Scotland).
(DIR) Post #9mTvBVtCS8fqRY8r4q by 9kJWnNKW4LKl0hcXPk.mary@social.coolmathgames.tech
2019-09-01T14:29:33.668Z
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@switchingsocial@mastodon.at @fitheach@mstdn.io @cubicgarden@mastodon.cloud The page you linked to appears to 500 for me...
(DIR) Post #9mTvBWU4F4AGHtOIXg by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T14:40:40Z
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@switchingsocial From the BBC article you linked to: "it is only collected with the participants explicit permission..."That isn't any different from Facebook, they also have these things explained in page 293, paragraph 2.2.3, sub-section 11 of their Privacy notice.@mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mTvMFnYcRsziuckkK by rysiek@mastodon.social
2019-09-01T14:42:37Z
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@fitheach @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden I really think need to push for is "explicit *informed* permission", or informed consent.
(DIR) Post #9mTvesliT1h5nfe5jM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T14:45:59Z
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@rysiek Not only does it need to be explicit, it needs to be requested every time. Otherwise people click away these things once, and don't realise the implications.@switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mTvqRFabZ1Zvf83hQ by rysiek@mastodon.social
2019-09-01T14:48:03Z
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@fitheach @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden sure, but I was putting emphasis on *informed*.That's the difference between using legalese and burying something on p237, and putting something in clear, simple language front-and-center.Plus it requires serious push for media competences classes in schools. But that's a whole separate can of worms.
(DIR) Post #9mTxCmd7tdpeYtMBqy by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T15:03:08Z
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@rysiek I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just extending the concept a bit.Making these things into a one-time only contractual arrangement is wrong, and it doesn't work from the user privacy perspective. If people are asked every time data sharing is wanted they will soon realise the implications.@switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mTxbTavo4lmlR6YUK by rysiek@mastodon.social
2019-09-01T15:07:46Z
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@fitheach @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden hard agree! :)
(DIR) Post #9mTz9rrCCqc9oQfvW4 by cubicgarden@mastodon.cloud
2019-09-01T15:25:12Z
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@fitheach I don't know where that statement comes form but I can tell you BBC R&D have been working on the ethics of data for years - https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2015-01-the-ethics-of-data-videosR&D is what the BBC does in the future@switchingsocial
(DIR) Post #9mTzLRG8vBbAnQrTRg by cubicgarden@mastodon.cloud
2019-09-01T15:27:17Z
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@fitheach We are not trying to trick people into giving their data? On top of that have a look at the Databox project - http://www.databoxproject.uk/ @switchingsocial @mary
(DIR) Post #9mUKOSg0gHSJNm2qtE by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-09-01T17:37:00Z
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@rysiek @fitheach @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden While I agree with you, I think doing so can require good UX design.Because if you overuse confirmation prompts people will habituate them away, thus defeating the point of them.
(DIR) Post #9mUKOSvbkHvsA9LJCa by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T19:23:07Z
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@alcinnz Absolutely, I can see that danger. Something like the invalid certificate warning given by browsers, perhaps? That requires multiple steps to confirm.I understand people tire of the GDPR inspired cookie pop-ups, but I don't encounter them that often. That might be because I avoid sites that do that, or because I usually have JS disabled. I suppose that makes me a non-typical user.@rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mUKo53f7Hw9ezKAE4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-09-01T17:39:34Z
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Maybe an indicator is better than playing whackamole with OK buttons? So users can see whenever they're sharing data, with who, and click on the indicator for more details.@alcinnz @rysiek @fitheach @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mUKo5Spbi4Ov36GSO by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T19:27:45Z
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@strypey I like that idea, and it would be good as an additional tool to see what you have agreed to in the past. However, I would be worried if it was the only tool, as it would be retrospective. Plus, many users might never look at it.@alcinnz @rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mUKpH61qPndHl06Bk by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-09-01T19:27:59Z
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@fitheach @rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden Well at least in the case of those cookie pop-ups, habituating them means "deny everytime".Which would explain why they're making these popups so convoluted.
(DIR) Post #9mULvrMM1zK3RhLAxc by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T19:40:20Z
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@alcinnz Really? I only ever get a single OK button, which, admittedly, I get on every page *because* I haven't enabled cookies. 😃 @rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mUM2G7AuA4RxaI9uy by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-09-01T19:41:33Z
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@fitheach @rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden Well that'd be because they don't want you to click "deny", and they know that's what you'd habituate to if given the option.
(DIR) Post #9mUMTYUOhG0GlaAb1U by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-09-01T19:46:29Z
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@alcinnz Unfortunately, most people would likely press OK because they are bothered by the loss of screen real estate and the constant interruptions@rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden
(DIR) Post #9mUOLgW7ALUVFuLdJI by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-09-01T20:07:27Z
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@fitheach @strypey @rysiek @switchingsocial @mary @cubicgarden What I'm thinking of doing for my own voice assistant/web browser is to establish that most commands/links are sent to a server. And to specify which if I need to clarify which command you meant.It also could work well if the confirmation prompt automatically assumes acceptance after a timeout, as there's no incentive to form a habit.