Post 9lafni2bWMeZZfdIrg by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
(DIR) More posts by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
(DIR) Post #9laZMm49qfO0Vw8ILY by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:17:25Z
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I have a question for @fdroidorg 8chan has made it clear that even allowing access to sites that are known to spawn & nurture violent ideologies by hosting them is no longer acceptable.And Gab is one such known site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)#2018_Pittsburgh_synagogue_shootingSo why are you still hosting apps that allow access to each of these sites? Passivity is clearly not allowed anymore, and so the line can't be drawn at active promotion, yet every one of the following apps are available on your main repos:(see reply)
(DIR) Post #9laZMmGZ6XJL8PwCga by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:17:53Z
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@fdroidorg8chan:https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nya.miku.wishmaster/https://f-droid.org/en/packages/bus.chio.wishmaster/Gab:https://f-droid.org/en/packages/fr.gouv.etalab.mastodon/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.thechiefmeat.freetusky/https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.moko256.twitlatte/https://f-droid.org/en/packages/fr.xtof54.mousetodon/With Fedilab and FreeTusky, the choice to enable this violence is deliberate as already explained on your forums a few weeks ago.So how do you justify this choice?
(DIR) Post #9laZMmRYRg6LgV4yoa by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-08-05T21:20:21Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg none of those except FT were designed to access that site and only that site?
(DIR) Post #9laZMmefeuaqLBDSG8 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:22:40Z
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@a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Fedilab's developer deliberately re-enabled access to Gab after initially blocking it, so FT and Fedilab both are designed to access that site at this point.Also, as I said, the CloudFlare suspension of 8chan means that even passivity is no longer acceptable, so that means a more active role in denying access to these violent sites must take effect globally now that the precedent is set.
(DIR) Post #9laZMmr4umWAxf1MbA by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T21:47:06.399292Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Ah yes, Cloudflare, the true moral beacon.F-Droid has already published their position on this issue, there's no need to bother them about it more.
(DIR) Post #9laZfXcllb6fE4GrGC by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:49:03Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg When new information arises, it can change how we view old issues.Besides, F-Droid addressed the hatred/"free speech" issue, not the violence caused by it. As such, while related, it's not the same issue and needs to be addressed accordingly.
(DIR) Post #9laZfXu8j1085wOjKq by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T21:50:32.254782Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg It's not "new information", it's a company making a business decision. I don't turn to companies to determine my behavior. Nothing about 8chan has changed, nothing about Gab has changed, since you last raised this issue.
(DIR) Post #9laZrsUjzqEZQhOkSG by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-08-05T21:51:50Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @alexa @fdroidorg honestly, if it was proactive and based on violence rather than oppression, it'd probably turn into '''both sides''' rubbish
(DIR) Post #9laZrspek4xqTZBS3U by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T21:52:46.277154Z
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@a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg What are you talking about?
(DIR) Post #9laa8N8np3XB6u0Amu by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:53:38Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg And nothing about what F-Droid addressed has changed. They addressed the hateful speech, not the violence committed.Next argument, please. I grow tired of repeating myself.
(DIR) Post #9laa8NQAmTQdym82rY by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T21:55:43.805322Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Exactly, my point is:1. they released a statement about their policies towards sites like Gab and 8chan: as long as the app isn't *specifically* made for them, or made by them, it's fine2. nothing has changed since that statement
(DIR) Post #9laaJDmOy4V5GJhHo8 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T21:57:02Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg I'm not gonna repeat myself a third time. Either address the point I made or get out of my replies.
(DIR) Post #9laaJE0E8fYjxCAKMC by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T21:57:41.569163Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Your point isn't valid, the hateful speech and the violence committed are the same issue.
(DIR) Post #9laamjqEqEvJ69ZBr6 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:00:16Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg The direct, physical violence wasn't the topic of the original argument, only the harm caused by the hate speech itself. Therefore my point *is* valid. A clarification is 100% warranted here.Last chance. Either give a valid counterpoint or get out of my replies.
(DIR) Post #9laamk91iNx62QMC8m by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:03:02.705943Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg You had a more focused view of the original discussion than everyone else did, then.
(DIR) Post #9lab7um3OEjn5Oht7g by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:05:39Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg I read the views of everyone. At best, Gab's role in physical violence was mentioned as an afterthought one time. It never made it into the mainstream debate because the very people who nurture thia violent ideology were deliberately forcing the topic away from that physical violence. We never had the chance to properly address it before the thread was locked down.
(DIR) Post #9lab7vIfQypEiXxvxQ by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:06:52.396417Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg most people, when they consider hate speech, consider the physical violence caused by that speech, so the discussion inherently was about that.
(DIR) Post #9labiu6YqCbNj0w8w4 by felix@radical.town
2019-08-05T22:12:15Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg When a for-profit company does more against nazis than a nonprofit open source project, that is a very bad look. The reasons for blocking dont even matter for that.
(DIR) Post #9labiuJg3R5sNh4cNc by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:13:32.410061Z
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@felix @a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg Disagree, Cloudflare is doing this for PR reasons, instead of their morals. If/when F-Droid takes action, it will be from their morals alone.
(DIR) Post #9lac5NCPLjyWKXNywi by felix@radical.town
2019-08-05T22:16:12Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg As I said, the reasons dont matter at all. Fact is, Cloudflare is doing better on this issue right now than F-Droid.
(DIR) Post #9lac5NTmJ9rzCPVr1M by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:17:37.175476Z
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@felix @a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg Your claim is unsubstantiated. The reasons for action do matter.
(DIR) Post #9lacAePUmpk39p1YFE by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:16:18Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg I took another look and finally figured out why F-Droid's statement irked me so much.They tried to equate freedom to view the source code with their own choice to distribute the *compiled* apps themselves. This is a nonseqiutor and as a result, renders the entire last paragraph invalid and the statement incomplete.
(DIR) Post #9lacAecG1NwxnOzk8W by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:18:33.943795Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Link?
(DIR) Post #9lacUXxqSiqSxPZtT6 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:21:07Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg They have not made their position clear due to this contradiction, so it doesn't matter whether or not we consider hate speech to include the violence that comes with it.F-Droid still has stuff to clear up from the original topic in addition to specifically addressing the fact that passively enabling violence is clearly no longer acceptable.
(DIR) Post #9lacUYuKxFdJsowbdg by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:22:08.560013Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg > the fact that passively enabling violence is clearly no longer acceptableThat's an opinion, unless you use Cloudflare as your source of facts, which I don't.
(DIR) Post #9lacsMGJccdJc7ZUB6 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:24:45Z
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@alexa @felix @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg If they were police officers...Cloudflare: "I'm arresting this murderer because it'll make me look good"F-Droid: "I'm letting this murderer go free because they're outside my jurisdiction. I won't even call the neighboring jurisdiction to let them know what's going on."Regardless of reason, F-Droid clearly has the worse look here.
(DIR) Post #9lacsMem9gCOpz11Iu by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:26:27.980923Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @felix @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Cloudflare chose to stop doing business with 8chan. F-Droid has no business relationship with 8chan at all.
(DIR) Post #9ladWvQYIYBsGAhfns by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:32:08Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg Their original statement that you yourself referred to.https://f-droid.org/en/2019/07/16/statement.html
(DIR) Post #9ladWveNT9FWx3AiLw by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:33:46.678909Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg I think it’s pretty clearly not that.F-Droid won’t tolerate oppression or harassment against marginalized groups. Because of this, it won’t package nor distribute apps that promote any of these things. This includes that it won’t distribute an app that promotes the usage of previously mentioned website, by either its branding, its pre-filled instance domain or any other direct promotion.
(DIR) Post #9laeB3pkSkffuncvUu by b0zil@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:41:03.721693Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@KitsuneAlicia @alexa @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg F-Droid has nothing "to clear up". They do what they want, and the fact that they took the time to think about it an explain their decision is already something they were not forced to do.Happy or not, they probably won't change it based on the fact that you harass them on a regular basis.You tell a lot of people to stop repeating themselves, but honestly you should just start checking yourself at this point. What you do is annoying, not clearly argumented, not healthy and it wouldn't change anything anyway. See the GPL license for more information.
(DIR) Post #9lafReoqoqP9D9gW8m by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T22:53:40Z
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@alexa @a_breakin_glass @KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg Since you asked for facts, will Karl Popper do? He described the Tolerance Paradox in 1945, which has been studied rather further since. tl;dr : an open society cannot tolerate strict intolerance.https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.59272https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.77661
(DIR) Post #9lafRf5rna123ve6fA by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:55:15.113013Z
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@wsaewyc > social.librem.one> anti-free speech:blobfoxthinkanime:
(DIR) Post #9lafbupu7h9Bmb4L56 by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T22:56:43Z
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@alexa My, how mature of you! clearly you engage in measured discussion. And deserve to be take seriously.
(DIR) Post #9lafbvHCUCyv9Fq8cy by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:57:06.070229Z
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@wsaewyc It just seems ironic. You do realize your instance tolerates that type of behavior, right?
(DIR) Post #9lafni2bWMeZZfdIrg by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T22:58:31Z
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@alexa Define "that type of behavior" ?
(DIR) Post #9lafnjuAah5xM5hazo by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T22:59:12.871504Z
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@wsaewyc Racism, sexism, fascism, advocating violence, etc.
(DIR) Post #9lag8vbqGlBrjlEVrE by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T23:00:58Z
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@alexa No, they do not. That would be in violation of their policies if it took place on their service.But they do not moderate another instance if it allows it to happen on that instance. (A policy with which I disagree.)
(DIR) Post #9lag8vx6zgCinjBV0i by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T23:03:04.475430Z
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@wsaewyc They must've recently changed their policy then, as last time I checked, they refused to moderate any legal speech.
(DIR) Post #9lagK3kCMfrQ9URvg8 by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T23:04:22Z
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@alexa Keeping in mind their legal venues are the states of Washington and California, those things are illegal in part or in whole.
(DIR) Post #9lagK44P9Y1XA9u4Aq by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-05T23:05:05.059476Z
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@wsaewyc Nazism is not illegal anywhere in the United States.
(DIR) Post #9lcvojJUKVq2EIxGmO by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-05T23:06:33Z
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@alexa You may have a different interpretation of the law than I or a court of law. Feel free to test your opinion, so long as you harm none.
(DIR) Post #9lcvojYNR9kQyTv9zE by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:08:05.480234Z
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@wsaewyc @alexa nazism as a political ideology, is and always has been protected by the first amendment in the united states. just like hate groups are legal in the united states. the only thing punishable against any member of a hate group or any ideological follower, is their individual actions that go against the law. nazis and hate groups might experience more scrutiny and caution under the government, but they are fine to believe and say what they want as long as they are not going out and murdering people or raping people or stealing or any other law that the rest of us are also bound bymaybe take a page from that book and quit blaming entire groups for the actions of a few people
(DIR) Post #9lcx91RiipwUDI2swi by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-07T01:22:26Z
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@opal @alexa Feel free to espouse these opinions in contexts. It is my understanding that hate speech is not, in fact, protected speech. But I would be happy to be proved wrong.I have taken a page from that book. I will not tolerate intolerance.
(DIR) Post #9lcx91ci3yjUlNBf4i by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:22:57.584664Z
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@wsaewyc @alexa then your understanding is wrong. it isnt my duty to do your research for you
(DIR) Post #9lcxBbgowN5fCSLChE by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:23:27.923835Z
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@wsaewyc @alexa >i'm intolerant of tolernacemaybe youre also blissfully unaware how contradictory your beliefs are?
(DIR) Post #9lcxN4QQRVRJVV8eLw by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-07T01:24:56Z
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@opal @alexa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
(DIR) Post #9lcxN4zsJhnPHRixbk by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:25:31.079116Z
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@wsaewyc @alexa oh good, you can search stuff. now search where you're wrong about U.S. law.
(DIR) Post #9lcxSvqtELISehJPV2 by moonman@shitposter.club
2019-08-07T01:26:35.685168Z
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@wsaewyc @opal @alexa look at this brainlet
(DIR) Post #9lcxVEDTvHk4BsySQa by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:27:01.223358Z
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@moonman @wsaewyc @alexa the only true resolution is to be indifferent toward tolerance
(DIR) Post #9lcxYkoZBEwEA209Uu by wsaewyc@social.librem.one
2019-08-07T01:26:51Z
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@opal @alexa <pats opal on head> Run along little boy. When you grow up you can teach your grandma to suck eggs.
(DIR) Post #9lcxYl3SHsqcuCy2hk by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:27:39.313101Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@wsaewyc @alexa im not a boy. for someone who cant stand tolerance or hatefulness, you sure are quick to jump to conclusions and resort to ad-hominems
(DIR) Post #9lcxaD2rhlqu0RNqHQ by deadheat@freespeechextremist.com
2019-08-07T01:27:55.528434Z
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@opal @alexa @wsaewyc I think we should ask the guy with the Che Guevara avatar in the thread more advice about how to deal with these violent ideologies
(DIR) Post #9lcxiKKIW9fcuAPMmm by opal@pl.wowana.me
2019-08-07T01:29:22.517222Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@wsaewyc @alexa dont fucking touch me either
(DIR) Post #9lcydea7si3YER9BsO by yuduki@aria.company
2019-08-07T01:39:44.812049Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@KitsuneAlicia @fdroidorg tarrant livestreamed on facebook so why is facebook not shut down yet
(DIR) Post #9lcyrBnFiE4j06k1Jo by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-07T01:42:10.788165Z
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@wsaewyc:blobfoxfacepalm: headpats are only for people who like you@opal
(DIR) Post #9leDj34FxnVM5mENe4 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2019-08-05T22:34:09Z
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@alexa @felix @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg You know very well what I'm arguing here. Stop trying to pick apart my argument with bullshit like this.
(DIR) Post #9leDj3XKDikzXvpaxE by danishcookies@computerfairi.es
2019-08-07T16:02:38Z
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@KitsuneAliciaI really don't think it's worth arguing with them. I blocked them and their domain long ago for good reasons.@alexa @felix @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg
(DIR) Post #9leDj4GLWKllnYtY80 by alexa@fedi.absturztau.be
2019-08-07T16:03:28.894517Z
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@danishcookies @KitsuneAlicia @felix @a_breakin_glass @fdroidorg If you want to convince people you disagree with, you must discuss with them.