Post 9hVip0gfFb7pjBea5g by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
(DIR) More posts by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
(DIR) Post #9hVUI365s0QqHvw8Po by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T17:48:34Z
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something I think about often is the time I saw an artist on twitter learning programming and they were like “considering how much more programmers are paid, this is a lot simpler than I thought it would be” and I was like “yuuuup”
(DIR) Post #9hVUI3H5D9Dqq14uXo by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T17:50:31Z
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dismantle the idea that programming is for smart people™️ and that they deserve more money than others. tear down their haughty towers until silicon valley is a wasteland of shattered ivory
(DIR) Post #9hVUITlohVFt0rep3g by tangent@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T18:04:17Z
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@sol Now I'd want to ask what they're doing and how, because I struggle with programming so much, and imo art would be far simpler if I could just get over my imminent self-hatred towards my lack of experience. xD
(DIR) Post #9hVUITsuH8vVMqyU6q by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T18:08:19Z
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@tangent specifically they were comparing it to the years it took them to reach a point where they were happy with their artistic skillsand of course the “difficulty” of doing programming can be described either as “understanding how to do x” or “understanding how to fix problems when they arise”, the latter definition requiring much more experience, while they were referring to the former
(DIR) Post #9hVamAMm0YL1FGTzCi by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T20:40:55Z
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@sol You realise of course that what you said is exactly what neocons and rightwingers want you to, right? To turn workers against each other instead of bringing them together in order to fight for common goals.“Hey, the textile workers managed to get the weekend off! Let's tear down their industry until nothing's left of it!”Come on. Wise up.
(DIR) Post #9hVbdAtglT9QEv9fii by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T20:50:30Z
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@josemanuel this is such a blatantly bad-faith reading of my intent that I’m not sure it’s even worth addressing
(DIR) Post #9hVcY69J5fVw1IbTVo by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T21:00:27Z
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@sol Do it or not. It's your choice.But, just so you know, I didn't write that in bad faith. I am a programmer and I'm not well paid or even well regarded by my non-programmer colleagues, even though if it wasn't for me they wouldn't even have a job in the first place. Can you really blame me for taking offense at your petty, ignorant, insensitive and blatantly false comment?
(DIR) Post #9hVdhCkxzenL4a7nCC by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T21:13:22Z
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@josemanuel you realize by “tear their ivory towers down” I wasn’t literally talking about razing buildings in the valley, right?
(DIR) Post #9hVeZWLZNBgbT894Cm by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T21:23:29Z
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@sol Yes, I did. And even if it was meant literally, I could not care less about it. But you also said: «Dismantle the idea that programming is for smart people™️ and that they deserve more money than others.» And I assume that was not poetic license.Maybe you should stop thinking about dismantling what others made through education and hard work, and start getting along and collaborating with us in achieving common goals. If we're in such a privileged position, we'd be more helpful, right?
(DIR) Post #9hVfYdXHG9PPQflQ00 by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T21:34:31Z
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@josemanuel okay, I’ll bite, what are these “common goals” you’re talking about?
(DIR) Post #9hVh09800YtxBScb8C by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T21:50:41Z
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@sol For a start, you complained about us earning more money than others (but not deserving it, for some reason). Maybe we should fight for living wages for everyone, and for the right to work remotely, whenever possible. That would make for better work/life balance.
(DIR) Post #9hVhxogd8bU5A2GzA0 by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T22:01:27Z
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@josemanuel yes, I am for a living wage for everyone. all I’m saying is that the implication of the current system, where people working in tech earn a living wage and then some, while people working in many other fields often do not, is that only people who are “smart” deserve a living wage
(DIR) Post #9hVip0gfFb7pjBea5g by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T22:11:05Z
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@sol Ok. Now we're talking like people. Thank you.First of all, that's a generalisation, and, as all generalisations, is not true for everyone (or even for most). As I said, I am not well paid, and like me many others.Second, your implication is based on flawed assumptions: For example, where does ‘deserving’ enter your argument? There's no deserving; only getting. The question should be: What did they do to GET that? And learn from it.
(DIR) Post #9hVjPILt3BPqwJEl5E by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T22:17:39Z
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@sol Third: Smart people. Of course you have to be at least somewhat smart to work with computers, and also have an inclination towards them. But working with computers is not the same as working (or even creating) a tech company.You have to be educated, too, because it's a field that requires certain mathematical knowledge and an orderly mind.Does that mean only The Chosen Ones can do it? Of course not, but there's a bar. Or at least there should be one. Just like at any other job.
(DIR) Post #9hVkhaQyezKQBdu78a by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-05T22:30:59Z
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@sol Extra: Are more educated people entitled to better paid jobs? I don't think so (because, depending on the country, access to higher education is not exactly fair), but, at the same time, I believe that if you took the time and effort to do it, you should get compensated somehow.That said, computer programming is still a very “equal-opportunity” field. At least where I live. We still value the quality of the actual work done over academic titles. That may be changing, though, sadly.
(DIR) Post #9hVoeXMU1iaDbbbT7I by sol@vulpine.club
2019-04-05T23:16:25Z
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@josemanuel there’s a lot I could pick apart here. whether it’s your odd implication that generalizations can’t be true, unpacking the phrase “orderly mind”, or addressing the framing of computer science as an “equal opportunity field” (which is laughably false)but I’m not gonna debate you, because it would be disingenuous to imply my opinion might change. it seems you have fundamentally different values
(DIR) Post #9hWSLKUBfdZkKvbQVk by weykent@vulpine.club
2019-04-06T06:13:40Z
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@sol @josemanuel lmao why are you talking to someone on mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #9hWSLKk8iKKt8P4ANM by josemanuel@mastodon.tetaneutral.net
2019-04-06T06:41:08Z
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@weykent Who's on mastodon.social? Just curious.@sol