Post 2059543 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
(DIR) More posts by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
(DIR) Post #2058617 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T19:07:10Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Marxism isn't pure egalitarianism. communism is about a pursuit of freedom and the potential for what you want to be, not about uniformity. I can dig up endless quotes from Marx and Engels on this if you need me to. Marxism isn't even about paying people the same amount of wages, Marx agrees a doctor should be paid more than a street cleaner. class is the issue, being a proletarian who is forced into your position. this idea of 'equality' is from vague idealism not scientific socialism, and it's not Marxism
(DIR) Post #2058618 by Spacedrake@mastodon.social
2018-12-17T19:19:04Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy damn this IS hot. do you not think that, in this classical form of marxism, it would still lead to a sort of class structure, given you have some jobs paying better than others?
(DIR) Post #2058619 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T19:24:26Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Spacedrake no, because class is about the position of people in relation to the means of production. if you have to sell your time to do a job tto survive you're a proletarian, if you make money off of other peoples labour they sell to you then you're a capitalist.if there is no capital, how can their be a class? wealth disparity isn't class. this isn't even a hot take nor classical Marxism, my absolute hottest take is none' y'all know what you're talkin 'bout n' need to hit them books before calling yourselves Marxists :blobcatcoffee:
(DIR) Post #2059534 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T19:29:20Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy @Spacedrake but then you end up with a class system based on occupation, and people basing their worth on the monetary value of their occupation.
(DIR) Post #2059535 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T19:30:36Z
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@pippasaidwhat @Spacedrake nope, because that's not what class is. class is the relation to the ownership of the means of production. under communism here, the workers own and control the means of production, and thus there is no class disparity
(DIR) Post #2059536 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T19:31:46Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy @Spacedrake that is the current definition of class. all you have done is change the potential future definition of class.
(DIR) Post #2059537 by carlygayjepsen@anarchism.space
2018-12-17T19:41:51Z
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@pippasaidwhat @CornishRepublicanArmy class isn't defined by how much money you have/earn.
(DIR) Post #2059538 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T19:45:28Z
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@carlygayjepsen @CornishRepublicanArmy i know how class is defined. my initial point was that definitions change with time due to circumstance, and that the imbalance in which occupation is worth more still creates a social imbalance in how people perceive themselves through their work.
(DIR) Post #2059539 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T19:47:31Z
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@pippasaidwhat @carlygayjepsen how people perceive themselves via there work is due to the division of labour, alienation and the mode of capitalist production right now. in a post capitalist society you have the opportunity to make of it what you do, communism isn't a utopia where we all can be gods who redefine the world with our work
(DIR) Post #2059540 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T19:50:38Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy in a post-capitalist society with an aim to be classless and without work-based social structure?
(DIR) Post #2059541 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T19:52:15Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy specifically work-based social structure that risks causing inequality.
(DIR) Post #2059542 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T19:53:19Z
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@pippasaidwhat but again, that's the thing, the point of communism isn't to do with 'equality' at all, in fact the idea of utopian 'equality' comes from liberalism and the French revolution (literally a take from Engels
(DIR) Post #2059543 by pippasaidwhat@guillotines.masto.host
2018-12-17T20:01:22Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy no, but a lot of social and economic inequities are also part of the root causes of things that need to change for the better in general at the moment. as someone who believes in prison abolition, there is a degree of equality that i don't consider negotiable. i'm also bisexual and disabled, so yes, equality is important to me.
(DIR) Post #2059544 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T20:05:32Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@pippasaidwhat the idea of people having the freedom of self expression, as with sexuality or gender, isn't the same as universal 'equality' to make us all the same in every respect.
(DIR) Post #2060137 by lynnesbian@fedi.lynnesbian.space
2018-12-17T20:32:13Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy *holding a microphone* we're on the scene with lucy. how does it feel to be so correct
(DIR) Post #2060165 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T20:33:38Z
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@lynnesbian thank you Lynne, uhhh, I'd like to start off by saying I love you. *ahem*, folks, stating a hot take on the internet and then arguing with people over it is a hard thing to do, I just want to say thank you all for coming to my ted talk 👋
(DIR) Post #2060187 by lynnesbian@fedi.lynnesbian.space
2018-12-17T20:34:31Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy you held your own really well and i loved all your replies. you're incredible and it's great to have the chance to meet a one-in-a-billion girl such as yourself
(DIR) Post #2060210 by CornishRepublicanArmy@witches.live
2018-12-17T20:35:19Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@lynnesbian well it's only because I have such a great awesome and loving supporting girlfriend, that and I am a nerd
(DIR) Post #2071150 by mu@mudl.us
2018-12-18T07:10:43Z
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@CornishRepublicanArmy Ever read any Goffman? He's all about the performance of class.Like you could have a billion dollars but if you have a lawn gnome you're stuck somewhere in the middle class.It's interesting how engrained that stuff is and how much or how little it varies between countries (well, interesting for me cuz I came from an American middle class family and married into Japanese upper class family). Maybe I should see/read Crazy Rich Asians.