Post B7jQPxDmAwgAt0wV72 by rl_dane@polymaths.social
(DIR) More posts by rl_dane@polymaths.social
(DIR) Post #B7d0kLHcexrfY42kZU by screwlisp@gamerplus.org
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@prahou #plan9 is the grownup #unix @AmenZwa
(DIR) Post #B7d0kLYHf1ByNjq3Xc by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@screwlisp @prahou @AmenZwa Plan 9 is the Unix for those who were grownups in the early 1990s already and thus succumbed to Microslop Windows (instead of sticking with DOS for a while longer) and its use of computer mice, and perhaps to people coming from the Macintosh.BSD is the Unix for the command line and TUI power users.I know which one I am.
(DIR) Post #B7jQIsB6WkhDDbJfV2 by gumnos@bsd.cafe
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@dougmerritt @rl_dane You also get a lot better performance out of ed(1) on slow connections if the input is locally line-buffered rather than interactive. With that in place, all the current-command-line-editing happens locally without talking (slowly) over the wire, and once finalized that single line is sent to the remote end.(see "extproc" section in the stty(1) man page)
(DIR) Post #B7jQMxgjyxKXSz40R6 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@gumnos @dougmerritt @rl_dane or use an input/output screen splitter such as ssfe from sirc (basically, it shows output above, a status line, and a locally editable input line, using the scrolling region feature of modern terminals)(modern ~= last 30 years?)
(DIR) Post #B7jQPxDmAwgAt0wV72 by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@gumnos @dougmerrittWaiiit, you can do something like "local echo" in Unix?!? š¤Æ
(DIR) Post #B7jQPxRbLXjpZtPXf6 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane @gumnos @dougmerritt thatās even default until the shell disables it
(DIR) Post #B7jQTKYvqkmo99RqbY by gumnos@bsd.cafe
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@rl_dane There were some early terminals (I'd have to dig for which models) that would do that local line-buffering for exactly these performance reasons. Let users edit a single-line locally before sending it remotely (with all the line-chatter that would entail).It's been a while since I played with it over a slow connection, but it was kinda cool āŗ@dougmerritt
(DIR) Post #B7jQTKjvBtZohEacjY by kabel42@polymaths.social
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@gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt thats still useful for slow or flaky connections, see mosh
(DIR) Post #B7jQTKzsEaKxUi3MbA by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@kabel42 @gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt mosh is something else entirely, but, yes, similar
(DIR) Post #B7jQWaTb8eXoN6VRKq by mwl@io.mwl.io
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@dougmerritt @rl_dane @AmenZwa @vnikolov @kabel42 @raven667 @mirabilos @tut @sjmulder The best list is at mwl.io under the "nonfiction" tab, organized by topic.Or there's everything at https://mwl.io/book-indexMind you, the most Unixy way to get that list is probably to walk my SNMP MIB and grep for 'nonfiction' but you'd have to bootstrap that with SNMP Mastery. :flan_hacker:
(DIR) Post #B7jSMjkI1LvS8FkCO0 by gumnos@bsd.cafe
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@mirabilos Huh, TIL. I mean, the concepts are 100% unixy in nature, so it doesn't surprise that it existsā¦just that it hadn't occurred to me until you shared it š@rl_dane
(DIR) Post #B7jSMjyp9JYGrKXo2a by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@gumnos @rl_dane been using sirc (well a fork with UTF-8 and IPv6 and some other nice things) for over two decades, daily, soā¦ ;)(Now ssfe is something I have to make UTF-8-ready. Itās GPLv2 though so Iām loath to do it. Itās just easy enough to understand in general terms that Iād rather write my ownā¦ if I had time/spoons. For now, pressing backspace per byte (not character) and occasionally pressing Ctrl-L to fix wrong display and live with occasional wrong cursor position, it is.)
(DIR) Post #B7m0SzG72cGAjzhVoG by hyc@mastodon.social
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@kabel42 @gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt EXTPROC was first used by telnetd. I added support for it in openssh, libreadline, and libedit a long time ago but none of those projects accepted the patches.https://github.com/hyc/OpenSSH-LINEMODEI also ported the EXTPROC code from BSD to the Linux tty driver so all of the above would work.I think modern devs are too spoiled by megabit+ networks, they've never experienced the pain of single-character remote echo over a modem. Not even at GPRS speed.
(DIR) Post #B7m0SzXpyiRDcxzfRA by hyc@mastodon.social
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@kabel42 @gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt ah yes, I did this back in 2010 https://lwn.net/Articles/399052/
(DIR) Post #B7m0Szlf9JUsJqShzE by hyc@mastodon.social
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@kabel42 @gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt ironically, FreeBSD dropped support for it in 2011 https://groups.google.com/g/fa.freebsd.current/c/zvsYwM-QUUg?pli=1
(DIR) Post #B7m0T00CHH7h2vGJdo by hyc@mastodon.social
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@kabel42 @gumnos @rl_dane @dougmerritt actually, it seems FreeBSD "lost all faith in interplanetary travel" back in 2004. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-readline/2011-01/msg00004.htmlIt has vexed me my entire life that I have to work with so many people of such limited vision...
(DIR) Post #B7vpvhSBn64ILjrrXc by brouhaha@mastodon.social
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@dougmerritt @rl_dane @kabel42 @AmenZwa @vnikolov @raven667 @mirabilos Friends tried to get me to use csh, I quickly decided that I didn't want to learn two incompatible shells, one for interactive use and one for scripting. (Yes, you can write csh scripts, but...)
(DIR) Post #B7vpvhgiv3h74ofTCC by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@brouhaha @dougmerritt @rl_dane @kabel42 @AmenZwa @vnikolov @raven667 personally, I agree.Nevertheless, thereās quite the amount of people who use āweirdā shells interactively (csh, tcsh, zsh, fish,Ā ā¦) and use mksh for scripting, so Iāll gladly take the users.(Many zsh users also use zsh for scripting, but that leaves compatibility with POSIX on the outside, while working with mksh you still have that.)