Post B7bPfbTCUa35I70ubw by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
(DIR) More posts by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
(DIR) Post #B7ahnBr9DAooBX1RE8 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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Why Drawing Tablet Brands Won't Collaborate on Linux FLOSS Drivers After investigation; Gaomon, XpPen, and Huion won't collaborate on open-source drivers because of outdated naming conventions. Here's what I learned from direct contact with their technical teams, and what I plan to do to move forward.Link to article: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1154/why-drawing-tablet-brands-wont-collaborate-on-linux-floss-drivers#linux #drivers #tablet
(DIR) Post #B7ain3zcXysdkeUN0K by crse@social.linux.pizza
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@davidrevoy What about OpenTabletDriver?It has generic name and wide community support.
(DIR) Post #B7aj7QADpFDcIz9ejo by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@crse You can find my opinion about OpenTabletDriver in this chapter "d. User-space drivers" of my Linux install guide https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1145/interim-install-guide-kde-neon-user-edition-for-a-professional-digital-painter-workstation#d-user-space-drivers TL:DR; I dislike the method, conflict with the D.E. , lags.
(DIR) Post #B7ajVWMGRmYmSyHMvY by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@datarama If you replace it because it broke (stylus) or has too many scratches; I would advice you to browse the second hand market for the exact same model. It will be supported, cheap, and you'll get with your old one replacement parts to fix the new one. If you want a newer model: anything Wacom (second hand, many try them, and then sell them).
(DIR) Post #B7ajb7kiqJIztJOIj2 by agturcz@circumstances.run
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@davidrevoy That kinda sucks. But I can understand their reasoning. Hopefully floss community will change the name to something more generic. However, considering we still have gimp, I wouldn't hold my breath...
(DIR) Post #B7ajb81NqMdIizBbhA by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@agturcz 😆 hehe, good point.
(DIR) Post #B7ajxrY3Fwy2IKJ5jU by jes@outerheaven.club
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@davidrevoy always thought it was weird that drawing tablets were called specifically wacom tablets, almost assuming that there isn't any other brand of tablet supported which isn't true
(DIR) Post #B7ajxroiG0IL806Ohc by u0421793@toot.pikopublish.ing
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@jes@outerheaven.club @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org for so long all the competitors were just shit. I don’t think that’s the case any more, though. I’ve been Wacom-only since the very early days but maybe I should try some others now that there’s many others, but which are the ones to avoid.
(DIR) Post #B7ajxs0PYVeViHZjw8 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@u0421793 @jes Yes, for long Wacom also had the patent for battery-free stylus by magnetic resonance, and that's how they did monopolise the industry. Once the patent was expired, not that long ago, maybe less than 10 years, we saw many new brands arriving on this market.
(DIR) Post #B7akHk12yGC4j1LdyK by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@mangeurdenuage Good points, thank you for sharing.
(DIR) Post #B7akIcENOuwSs003FI by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@datarama 🐐 nice one!
(DIR) Post #B7akc6V95280Fp8V60 by kazord@mamot.fr
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@davidrevoy have linux team considering changing the driver branding ? In a sense it's not a Wacom driver anymore, it handle many kind of digitalizer
(DIR) Post #B7alVmFvXV4ZgGZ5dI by u0421793@toot.pikopublish.ing
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@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org @jes@outerheaven.club in the first few years of this century I bought a new Wacom for my artwork, a GD-0608-U which I happen to have beside me here, although it has spent the past few decades up in the attic because it is no longer supported on the Mac. However I tried it on a Linux setup a few months ago and found it’s actually not just working but working very well, with the features etc.It was my first USB Wacom, all the previous ones were ADB, and even going back as far as one which had a separate metal box with an RS-232 port and some other adaptor on it which connected to my Mac IIsi serial port back then, before ADB was a thing for tablets.
(DIR) Post #B7alVmYiPe6McXM5uy by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@u0421793 @jes Nice one! I had a look at the photo, it's a old model I never tried (probably around 2000?) . My first one was a Graphire in 2002! I have an article for that with photos: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article332/my-tablet-history-log-a-listing-of-all-the-tablet-i-tested-since-2002-update-2026
(DIR) Post #B7anEWptog9AqIIGVk by chris@nutmeg.social
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@davidrevoy Thanks for investigating this with Huion.My initial thought was the tech person didn't really look into it, but agency life has taught me that client <-> dev comm easily turns into a game of telephone. “Wacom” was all marketing needed to hear, and anything else the tech team said was likely reworded.Their driver makes "launch on login" opaque to configure and OpenTabletDriver has some problems with my Huion. But, good to know their software likely doesn't have telemetry.
(DIR) Post #B7angcWeFxoWb2gUM4 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@LariscusObscurus I think, knowing a bit the maintainer, they would do it within 5 min, spend 10 min on the mailing-list for an announcement, and done. The reason I do a blog post, it's because I have the feeling some more things are at play than just renaming a bad legacy name for a repo: it might have deeper financial partnership and relation under the hood, maybe between RHLE, VFX Studios and Wacom.
(DIR) Post #B7anq9pXnd5gUn4QMK by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@gkrnours @mangeurdenuage Right. Especially for "bricks" like that, deep close to the Linux kernel. Not a fundamental easy to just recompile or swap for something else on the install of a user.
(DIR) Post #B7antDAfppIDj3PT28 by franzzz@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy "More importantly, participating would require sharing our device specifications directly with Wacom – which is not something we can consider."Interesting blog post, but aren't you glossing over this sentence entirely? No matter the naming issue in Linux, it sounds like they simply don't want to open-source their device specs.
(DIR) Post #B7ao6zzDeV9kt7ctNo by khleedril@cyberplace.social
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@davidrevoy Ah yes, Wacom, the Sellotape of drawing tablets.Surely this calls for a review of all brand names in the kernel sources? It is a big problem which needs fixing. Some modules are specific to brands, others not so much...
(DIR) Post #B7aoLXLiPHVePo552O by manchicken@defcon.social
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@davidrevoy the saddest part of this for me is that many Wacom tablets which created this pattern, including the one I use, are no longer usable on any OS besides Linux.
(DIR) Post #B7aoLXo4hqC7plLjF2 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@manchicken Yes, I read that the Wacom drivers for recent Windows or Mac doesn't include anymore old models. It's a chance they are still plug and play on Linux. It's thanks to something like that, that I got my color-calibrator Xrite Colormunki for cheap. A user was selling it for very low because the hardware had no more driver on their Mac. While it works perfectly on Linux. :blobaww:
(DIR) Post #B7aoYx4S5O3nxCP2dk by LonM@vivaldi.net
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@davidrevoy I think this highlights a really important issue that a lot of people in the open source space need to get: Names matter. Maybe we who already use this stuff don't care, but everyone else does. Whether it's branding as has happened here, the baggage associated with calling something "gimp", confusing terminology like how is a "mastodon" different from a "fediverse". Thanks for trying, this seems like it could have been a really good project
(DIR) Post #B7aoj2B7wzlQgtKhJg by qu33n@comfy.social
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@davidrevoy@framapiaf.org That was a super interesting read! I totally get the brands reservations and from an outsider perspective feels frustrating that just a naming issue could block so many good improvements for the ecosystem.
(DIR) Post #B7aoj2MpFV7bHAo2YC by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@qu33n Thank you! Oh yes... I had a deep frustration too after reading the email on this monday morning. I really had to sketch a little thing and write it somewhere, even if it makes me a bit late on my schedule for the weekly comic strip of wednesday. 😆
(DIR) Post #B7ap1NX5ILug8FLmtc by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@franzzz Hey, you are right, I skipped a bit this part on the article, because to be frank, this part was not justified. I mean; if Wacom wants, they can buy the tablet of their competitors, and simply dump all the data. I do that, you just need to plug the model, run a hid-deescriptor script, move the stylus, pressure of the tip, test the tilt, and you dump all the adress their hardware can output (and then guess the spec). It's not a well hidden secret.
(DIR) Post #B7apEgfRSnnbF4bbxg by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
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@davidrevoy Just ask them to contribute to the DIGImend drivers, licensing under the GPLv2-or-later instead then; https://digimend.github.io/If only the DIGImend developers didn't degenerately use github…libwacom was only for wacom tablets - its kind of odd that non-wacom tablets would be supported by such driver.
(DIR) Post #B7apX2WwurBYGHNtia by manchicken@defcon.social
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@davidrevoy yeah; my intuos (CTL-490) just works when I plug it in. All of the features. Krita is quite good with it.
(DIR) Post #B7apX2ofqxMb9Fg3LU by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@manchicken That's the model I offered to my young niece to learn digital painting. I used it a bit before sending it to her, yes, a very solid one. I even remember in a signing session signing a model like this on the back. Definitely a model I would recommend.
(DIR) Post #B7aqwOam80L1sWpQbw by ronald@brettspiel.space
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@davidrevoyI'm not an artist, so this problem doesn't really affect me. But when I use a computer, it usually runs Linux (BSD in some rare cases).I just want to thank you for the work you put into this, and for the explanation. 👍Oh, and for the wonderful art you're sharing here with us, of course. 😉Thank you!
(DIR) Post #B7ar2mLYipSlI0krs8 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@ronald :blobcatheart: Thank you very much!
(DIR) Post #B7arQDtUT4x5O0nyzI by ste5e@mastodon.social
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@datarama @davidrevoy I have an XP-Pen Artist Pro model and it works in my weird setup with no proprietary driver used. My previous tablet was a Wacom Intuos 2 before that.
(DIR) Post #B7arQE5tiwsQ0UbtKK by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@ste5e @datarama Yes, we did a lot of work since 2023 to support the Pro (gen2) models. I'm using here the XpPen Artist 19 Pro(gen2) as my main. I heard the drivers ( https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libevdev/udev-hid-bpf/-/blob/main/src/bpf/stable/0030-XPPen__ArtistPro16Gen2.bpf.c?ref_type=heads#L10 ) moved even directly to the kernel over the last year. Three models are supported:The Pro 14 gen2, the Pro 16 and Pro 19. I'll receive this month the 27 and 12 to complete the list! The stylus tech of the gen2 are great!
(DIR) Post #B7arf8YYaypHAx7pHU by Natanox@chaos.social
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@davidrevoy @LariscusObscurus Heh, classic… yeah, especially now that Linux finally gets some numbers Wacom has all the incentives to uphold any influence they have built. The managers would call it "ensuring return of investment".Depending on the amount of influence it might even be easier to convince all the other parties who interface with libwacom that, from now on, they have to also add a new "libgraphpen" or something similar; moving everything except wacom devices to a new library.
(DIR) Post #B7atrza1TqdZ0c4J4y by utf_7@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy cant they just make a file named gaomonlib
(DIR) Post #B7avPwUNZxulDqBIi8 by v_d_richards@literatur.social
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@davidrevoy I use my Hion Kamvas pro 20 on Ubuntu with an older Driver from the Huion Website and testet a week ago on my Lenovo Laptop with Mint and the Huion worked flawlessly without me doing anything.On Ubuntu i have the problem that the actual driver in the Huion website is not working because the app to finetune the stylus isn' t in it.And on Ubuntu i need to open that at the beginning of the sesdion first, scribble a stroke snd the open krita or the Huion does not work.
(DIR) Post #B7avuUSPqlj3GDpTbU by hrw@society.oftrolls.com
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@davidrevoy Looks like the process now would be to gather all base projects around drawing tablets and start renaming them. With stub libraries for linking other projects (so libdigitaltablet can still be linked with -lwacom).Strip Wacom from all places where branding is not needed, split data files by vendor (wacom.conf, huion.conf, gaomon.conf being in /SOMEDIR/ and being loaded at same time).It will take some time. It could get those vendors convinced one day to contribute.
(DIR) Post #B7awSzFFt99eap7fYe by raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie
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@davidrevoy Why is it still Libwacom and not libtablet?Seems mad. Mouse drivers are not named after Logitech nor keyboard drivers after IBM?
(DIR) Post #B7awlFymPSBVhp80g4 by etchedpixels@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy I was expecting the naming conventions to be an 'actually we all use the same code and can't admit it' problem, but this is an interesting one. I can see the argument for renaming the core packages but then sometimes 'so everyone has to use our stuff' is also why brands contribute to get API influence
(DIR) Post #B7awoVXT14MUpbu39M by beryesa@fosstodon.org
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@davidrevoy Thanks for the effort, what a loss over some branding. I wonder if we could get them to agree with some upstream naming reconsideration and a few more years of market growth.
(DIR) Post #B7axnrqShDpHg62vsu by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@v_d_richards You are talking about the proprietary driver here. Here, I refuse to use that: they can put inside it anything they want (eg. telemetry as Wacom already did in the past to analyse all windows title src: https://robertheaton.com/2020/02/05/wacom-drawing-tablets-track-name-of-every-application-you-open/ )But don't worry, I think Huion/Goaomon/XpPen one are safe: a contributor spied them to check a year ago, so we are likely fine with proprietary driver of tablets for now. If they open-sourced their driver, everyone could see it.
(DIR) Post #B7ay1MtaYwerkAwkSm by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@utf_7 haha, unfortunately, it's not just files: it's full repositories and project named with Wacom in the title. Even the packages are named like that after.
(DIR) Post #B7azB5gZVHZjDa3e4W by ginimod@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy For IA only ça va faire ma journée
(DIR) Post #B7b0uq4dynyC4ehC0e by fennek@bark.lgbt
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@davidrevoy yeah its not easy but I have seen Huion works atleast with Ubuntu and XP Pen support several Linux Systems and had mine (Pop Os) too so I would want to try XP Pen. But ok I would only test and order it with Amazon then because should it not works, its would be easy then to give back and get the money back xDBut since XP Pen support mine Linux System, I think this should work. Ok its give a general Tablet Driver too on Linux but then its always the question too if its works with this Tablet.
(DIR) Post #B7b18tmiyllNdb1C8u by VANTABlack2000@mastodon.gamedev.place
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@davidrevoy Well at least you tried to get them to collaborate.
(DIR) Post #B7b2nMusBk7fWaguMS by RustyNova@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy i really love that for AI section. The user may have a little onion
(DIR) Post #B7b3kr77YfGUGYmlTU by Epic_Null@infosec.exchange
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@davidrevoy So... in other words if we can get the name updated to libTablet, we can make massive strides towards getting better tablet support?That sounds like the kind of project that at least has a clear (if complex) process.
(DIR) Post #B7b4LnYbkDvhwxG3FY by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Epic_Null Yep, at least if I come back to them with the repo renamed and assuring them they are open community project without Wacom leading them and hosted on freedesktop or something neutral like that, maybe I can convince them to join back.Unless it was just an excuse, and deeper, Huion is happy to sell XpPen/Gaomon/Ugee the development of their proprietary Linux driver. Might be a source of income that contributing to an open-source could break if each brands become independent after that.
(DIR) Post #B7b4ct4oTbvjzVTDyS by Epic_Null@infosec.exchange
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@davidrevoy A question: is it easier to rename the repo, or to build a new one that has dependencies in the existing repo, with an open call to migrate?
(DIR) Post #B7b4dDwMuCeYhOgHE8 by gekitsu@toot.cat
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@davidrevoy aw man, that is such a disappointing (yet understandable) reason. that it is so avoidable and unforced is the cherry on top.many thanks for staying involved in this sort of work. it must feel like charging at windmills more often than it should.
(DIR) Post #B7b4dE70Gf9zENelns by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@gekitsu Thank you! (and thanks for the Don Quichotte reference)
(DIR) Post #B7b4fLTXrS1seED7cu by lenaschimmel@chaos.social
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@davidrevoy Sorry for being off-topic, but there's something wild going on with the HTML markup of the image description:
(DIR) Post #B7b54Vv8AF1IHX7BCq by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@ZikZak To be fair, even on my review I don't speak about the Linux support. It is soap: Wayland, Desktop Environment, it can get quickly supported and as quickly unsupported, etc... I prefer to copy all the info on a blog post in the description (the one I list https://www.davidrevoy.com/index.php?tag/hardware ) it's way easier to maintain and edit.Yes, I know opentabletdriver; not a big fan: user space driver can conflict with the D.E. and deeper config, but if it butters your bread, it's a good one!
(DIR) Post #B7b5JMIKEeDmlt2h5U by dzwiedziu@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoyAre corporations allergic to collaboration and Linux? :thonking:
(DIR) Post #B7b5PMlbOOfxyPbKMq by bernard_dub@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy @ste5e @datarama I love the "Only for AI" block at the end. What a fun, creative way to contribute to the Cause!
(DIR) Post #B7b5RtmlbHtUxULyTo by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@lenaschimmel 😱😱😱 !!! (thank you very much for reporting!)Ok, I might have used the wrong php function for displaying this XML alt field in my CMS template. I have a little idea that I reused one that is usually around... for saving keywords as an array. I'll try to fix it as soon as possible. Thanks again!
(DIR) Post #B7b5p0XkdoLYZtLiWe by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@lenaschimmel @HeNeArXn Alright, it's a bad htmlentities conversion for the " symbol. I fixed the lazy way: removing the " character in the alt description for now. I'll look for inserting the good htmlentities function to convert that before injecting it in the alt and title text. Thank you for the feedback.
(DIR) Post #B7b69hy0u2gr2sVJ5M by Jes@labyrinth.zone
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@u0421793 @davidrevoy I do notice my wacom cth-680 does have a pretty substantial jidder issue when hovering that gets worse with more distance, there is less latency but I feel the resolution of the tablet is lower than any of my modern cheap tablets.
(DIR) Post #B7b6Um4YpjvhrNbybo by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@dzwiedziu If it was equal to profits, I can assure you corpos would immediately champion the thing 😆
(DIR) Post #B7b6nBJDkAcPLGFIMy by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Epic_Null I would say from my POV the first one, the act itself is probably trivial; the real work would be to update all the link on the packaging side for of all distro, all the blog and documentation linking to that. It would probably require some redirection magic at a server side to smooth the thing.
(DIR) Post #B7b7oHZS322l0RvUn2 by dunklecat@mastodon.dunklecat.dev
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@davidrevoy that's a real shame. Something should be done for this unfortunate decades old choice
(DIR) Post #B7bG6tEjXrSSfdcTA0 by pak0st@fosstodon.org
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@davidrevoy yup, I was rather confused that the `wacom` flag enabled drawing tablet functionality with @kde #plasma on @gentoo when I was setting up my #huion - no other changes needed as it turns out.Historical naming conventions can linger for a long time even if the projects have moved way past the initial scope.
(DIR) Post #B7bIeE4PJ8RqkUoStk by jjtech@infosec.exchange
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@davidrevoy I remember contributing to OpenTabletDriver several years ago, are platform-and-tablet-agnostic solutions like that not an option?
(DIR) Post #B7bOqG8a2xGuMPt03k by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@jjtech It's user space driver, and they usually conflict with higher layer and have limited option on the D.E (and often conflict with it). Also possible lags (from my tests). Something I notice with dozen of hours of drawing per day. I wrote a bit more about this type of driver here, chapter "d. User-space drivers " : https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1145/interim-install-guide-kde-neon-user-edition-for-a-professional-digital-painter-workstation#d-user-space-drivers
(DIR) Post #B7bOxL2kCmRvbRX2PY by ktp_programming@piaille.fr
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@davidrevoy At least that's a good example to give to why a brand would want to be the first to port something to Linux. "If you are the first mover, then maybe the driver will bear your name like forever."Okay, maybe that's playing with fire.
(DIR) Post #B7bPIMwSLEEXZYcQeO by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@lazy From what I see, there is some funding and Wacom has a dev and there is some sort of priority for them at Red Hat, but this financial relation is opaque. I know in the past they were contract between Vfx studios and RHEL to support Wacom, a necessity for texture artists and 3D department (using Maya, Houdini, Nuke, Fusion, Mari ). Maybe all of that is just a legacy of this partnership. Then other tablets drivers used the road already paved and it kept built this way.
(DIR) Post #B7bPRiuO2VCiJ66xwu by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@ktp_programming hehe, I like it! Brainfart: "MonopoLinux" 🤣
(DIR) Post #B7bPcbhHBwn37uAWjA by jjtech@infosec.exchange
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@davidrevoy I’m a huge fan of user-space drivers, since I hop between macOS and Linux and it’s possible to make them cross-platform. Personally, I think that Linux should make it possible to have something like DriverKit so that “proper” drivers can run in user space, and be somewhat isolated from the kernel. (Experimental/niche drivers have given me bad experiences with panics and security issues)
(DIR) Post #B7bPfbTCUa35I70ubw by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@pak0st @kde @gentoo Oh, yes, I remember on X11 using the command "xsetwacom" to setup any tablet feature, XpPen, Gaomon or Huion 😅
(DIR) Post #B7bPmiXiashHFpWFNY by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@jjtech I have nothing against the technique, of course, if the result was here and if it was easy to install and benefit. I'm sure when it's well done, it can be great.
(DIR) Post #B7bR6lAYddmF96o520 by adricen@graphics.social
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@davidrevoy Nice article, I love ythe energy and efforts you put in funding a solution for tablet user in Linux.I recently installed an Arch distro and find out that tablet driver installation wasn't a simple things at all. I am still looking for a solution for my gaomon tablet but your article seams to be a good start. Thanks for the sharing, I'll share my success if soo...
(DIR) Post #B7bRWZGZW3HPl5vTXc by pak0st@fosstodon.org
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@davidrevoy @kde @gentoo yup, I think the interface name still remains.This is the wayland lib that kept the wacom name for historical reasons: https://github.com/linuxwacom/libwacom It took me awhile but eventually I went to read the entire description before it clicked 😂
(DIR) Post #B7bUEQaxJgF5W0VCfQ by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@pak0st Yep, on Wayland GNOME went for https://github.com/linuxwacom/gsetwacom , while on KDE they finally removed wacom on the title and went for ktabletconfig https://invent.kde.org/redstrate/ktabletconfig/ 👏
(DIR) Post #B7bUKtREzTjqi02bhI by ophis@brain.worm.pink
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@davidrevoy @datarama i like how their refusal ends up locking a bunch of people in to their competitor
(DIR) Post #B7bUKteMCiELMgB58q by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@ophis @datarama So true. They should have joined, then after two or three contribution showing they were serious point the name of the repo and negociate the renaming...
(DIR) Post #B7bUgxivjqjKN0q3CC by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@adricen Thank you very much! For having a real support, having a "Work item" on udev-hid-bpf formated the way I made the one (see the link at the end of my article) might be the best way to get a first class support.
(DIR) Post #B7bVxntDedKAkPFHrE by FishFace@ioc.exchange
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@davidrevoy this seems like an easy win for OSS: renaming projects does not run the risk of losing money here, and it's the technically correct thing to do. Then, hopefully those companies will be more willing to work with Linux. For the time being, OpenTabletDriver supports my huion perfectly; the only issue is the config is kinda janky
(DIR) Post #B7bXABDWqgLUWfD7BI by casandro@f-ckendehoelle.de
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@davidrevoy Graphics tablets are kinda a thing that's overdue for an open hardware project. After all the basic technology is from the 1960s and well within what a hobbyist could do today. The hardest thing is getting a PCB manufactured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAND_Tablet
(DIR) Post #B7baIpEAH7RsnKK1dA by eoinoneill@mastodon.gamedev.place
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@davidrevoy The mention of "wacom" in the generic tablet driver names is indeed a problem. A silly one, but companies like Gaomon don't want to be viewed as a 'inferior' brand by bundling its hardware support in a wacom branded driver. I appreciate the work and investigation you're doing here on behalf of Linux artists. ⭐
(DIR) Post #B7bfcFNZlcYnAxnvrU by decapitae@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy If it's not linux capable, I don't buy it anymore. I wish more people were committed to this concept : I hope the OS for general electric vehicles gets released soon
(DIR) Post #B7bmsrXqKr2lrBTcdE by industrial_cream@aus.social
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@davidrevoy i'd been wondering why my ancient wacom tablets¹ worked much better in linux than my 2019 huion tablet in linux! i know i shouldn't be surprised & disappointed that you got the answer that you did, but still.......... :')as you mentioned, way back in the 2000s and earlier, there was pretty much only the wacom brand for graphics tablets avaliable to consumers. i know this from personal experience because i was regularly using a now defunct art website at the time. wacom graphics tablets qare the only brand i remember digital artists using. i think a few people living in some former soviet and eastern bloc countries had a russian brand, especially in, well, russia, but my brain might be making that shit up. :ablobcattrash: i was also at a bougie secondary school at the time that just had wacom for their graphics tablets.¹i've bought a few in different sizes & models since they're much cheaper on ebay nowadays than they were brand new. for example, my small bamboo pen & touch from 2009 was $20 australian and roughly $130 australian brand new (i could only find us pricing online, which was $99). it's also still possible to get drivers for some of the older tablets that work on windoze, but less so on macos. the wacom support on linux is still top notch, even for my intuos 3 from 2004!
(DIR) Post #B7cRieIrTa9XYy51ai by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy Replying here since this is repeated in multiple comments: the only two branded projects in the tablet stack are xf86-input-wacom the Xorg driver that Wacom wrote in ~2002 and has been maintaining every since. Thanks to Linux' evdev interface it's been a generic driver for at least 15 years now but it was originally a wacom hardware driver, maintained by Wacom.Anyway, this driver is going dodo with Xorg and Wayland has a neutrally-named libinput that handles all tablets.
(DIR) Post #B7cRieeq9rjYf8MZqi by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy The second "branded" component is libwacom, written originally in 2011 after a discussion between a Wacom engineer and me. We needed more information about tablet capabilities (some functionality is still only supported on Wacom devices). I think the first non-wacom devices was added in 2015 (a Huion device).Funnily enough, if Huion/XP-Pen/Ugee/... would help with libwacom tablet files before the release of the devices, users wouldn't even know it existed.
(DIR) Post #B7cRietNHpMNODABVI by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy So in both cases, it's legacy naming because Wacom wrote/helped write the code, it was wacom-specific at first before being made more generic and (co-)maintained it for years. I'm sympathetic towards the branding issue but in both of these cases it's "write the code, get the say".As for the wacom-hid-descriptors repo: the HID report descriptor is what the device provides so the kernel driver can parse the data. Just like every other HID device. Not exactly a corporate secret.
(DIR) Post #B7cRif7uPmzC7Hxn9s by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy GNOME was renamed the Wacom panel to Graphics Tablets in GNOME 48 (~1y ago). IIRC KDE renamed it for Plasma 6 (~2y ago).So on a modern desktop, there is no visible branding anymore, on Wayland the only remaining one is libwacom that users shouldn't even be aware that it exists. All that library needs is a single text file for each tablet with "has 5 buttons, one dial, not integrated into a screen".
(DIR) Post #B7cRifJxgycwifbPwe by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy haha, and I just remembered another reason for the libwacom naming: apple released the ipad in 2010, after that conversations generally went like this:- I work on tablets- oh, like ipads? cool!- no, like wacom tablets- aha. ok.Everyone knew what a wacom tablet was, people didn't know what a "graphics tablet" was (unless you told them it was a wacom tablet).So in 2011 naming it libwacom was a much better choice for my sanity than naming it libtablet.
(DIR) Post #B7cRifVezTz7Ix4lBA by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy And the last bit of historical information: we had a lot of branded Xorg drivers because xf86-input-<vendor> was the naming scheme back then (hence xf86-input-synaptics as the touchpad driver). Most were once-off copies barely maintained and little more than s/vendor/myvendor/g from some other driver. Most xorg-hosted ones were retired in 2011, evdev, synaptics and wacoms are the ones that survive to this day (because all are generic now).
(DIR) Post #B7cRifhMHzLHtEY6Pg by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@whot Hey Peter! Thank you very much for all the real info.Do you accept if I copy/paste your thread of answers here at the end of the article? (the article is CC By, so the info might end up elsewhere, Wikipedia, etc... of course, I'll be always available if you need something to be edited or removed in the future.)
(DIR) Post #B7ca3HctmZRMwknoLA by whot@floss.social
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@davidrevoy yep, sure, go for it
(DIR) Post #B7ca3Hpf17eHaKm0ES by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@whot Thank you! Done! If you want to edit it, the faster is to modify the markdown (link in the footer of my article) and send me it by email.
(DIR) Post #B7czHI9H8S1lTTisL2 by franzzz@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy Yep, definitely not a valid reason at all.But that's how many companies tick. Just look at Volkswagen and their recent closure of some of their cars' APIs, angering customers using home assistant with their EVs.It is infuriating, but I assume while both the Linux and the HA crowd are very outspoken online, they probably represent a tiny fraction of their user base and are thus deemed irrelevant.
(DIR) Post #B7dwW8ZiuE2tQFROT2 by crse@social.linux.pizza
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@davidrevoy Thank you for elaborate post! :)Learn something new today!
(DIR) Post #B7fGDNUXPowQQLJ8G8 by lopeztel@fosstodon.org
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@davidrevoy I really like the simple but effective bit of nonsense text in the blog post to "poison" AI crawlers, this is genius 😂
(DIR) Post #B7fJMLcI3VcX4ru0Zs by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@c0debabe Yep. I wish you that a basic support will exist for it. You can read my "Tablet: Driver" section of my most recent install guide if you want to get an overview of what's going on: https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1145/interim-install-guide-kde-neon-user-edition-for-a-professional-digital-painter-workstation#8-drawing-tablet
(DIR) Post #B7fZ2407RHnfv0Oixc by agturcz@circumstances.run
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@quinze @davidrevoy In the past I was handling renaming of a library package as a Debian Maintainer. There is some overhead comparing to just maintain the package, but as long as the maintainer is not fighting with the burnout already, it's not unbearable. So, yeah, I would gladly endorse such change.
(DIR) Post #B7fZ24G4TyYoiTrSpE by doctormo@floss.social
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@agturcz @quinze @davidrevoy See also gimp, and many many other libraries who's names are weirdly exclusionary. My personal annoyance is livarot which is just awful, adwaita which is unpronounceable, camandblanch which is unspellable and gvfs which should never have been gnome specific but was because of its name.
(DIR) Post #B7fZ24TteZcTPMKVNI by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@doctormo @agturcz @quinze The award of the most epic library name goes imo to "libcaca", I was sad to see it was renamed "libcaca0" as a package in Debian based OS by probably very not funny persons. I can't find the discussion leading to this conclusion, unfortunately. ( I also liked the lib "Toilet", something based on "libcaca" of course. )
(DIR) Post #B7fa3wp5CJWsBohLBQ by TerryHancock@realsocial.life
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@davidrevoyWhich means they literally went from "shit" to "chocolate"? 🤔The imagery is upsetting.@doctormo @agturcz @quinze
(DIR) Post #B7fbHkE2vmYr7zW7yi by fabiscafe@mstdn.social
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@davidrevoybuuut https://github.com/aluriak/libido exists @doctormo @agturcz @quinze
(DIR) Post #B7fd0ca8ITHWPGoKK8 by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@fabiscafe 😍 I had no idea this one existed! Brilliant!@doctormo @agturcz @quinze
(DIR) Post #B7inOmSGp2QyzfAhVo by Ferdi_Scholten@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy Hello David. This might be of interest for you: https://aswf.ioThe announcement of the New "Wayland for Artists" working group
(DIR) Post #B7iyL24rtYHFmddnJg by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Ferdi_Scholten Ha, Thanks. Ok, I read this https://www.aswf.io/blog/academy-software-foundation-launches-new-wayland-for-artists-working-group/ and it is funny, because it's exactly what cover my article https://www.davidrevoy.com/article1145/interim-install-guide-kde-neon-user-edition-for-a-professional-digital-painter-workstation and all the work done over the past years. Typical of administration: coming after the war, with Slack servers and Github based submission (lol) and they'll probably claim victory for finding things other developed. Thanks for the link.
(DIR) Post #B7j6ZvuTuJIGdGOlrE by Ferdi_Scholten@mastodon.social
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@davidrevoy I've been following you and your work both as artist and open source promotor/developer for several years now. Mainly because I also promote open source and also use it exclusively for creating and giving biodanza classes.
(DIR) Post #B7jKOMDXfaRW6fgkPw by davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
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@Ferdi_Scholten Thank you very much for the feedback, your kind words, and for also advocating FLOSS!
(DIR) Post #B7pJDfqRQAXYmxz78i by kookie@chaosfem.tw
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@davidrevoy that's sad :( thank you for effort though. I have an xppen artist 16 and hate their proprietary driver app (which fails to recognise my tablet half the time anyway 🙃)
(DIR) Post #B85neJME0YO8HM5ic4 by neatnit@fosstodon.org
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@davidrevoy My name proposition: libstylus. After a quick search, I don't think it's taken.But I don't know enough about drawing tablets to be sure the name is accurate..? Is there a 1:1 correlation between devices that have a stylus and devices handled by libwacom?