Post B7aqdDt5hfVRB1FlaK by domi@donotsta.re
(DIR) More posts by domi@donotsta.re
(DIR) Post #B7aUzfZLGbz8POJX4y by Mae@is.badat.dev
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Why the fuck is anyone using any container runtime other than krun
(DIR) Post #B7aUzfpIJIkHCrmGwa by Lili@donotsta.re
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@Mae I've never heard about it before
(DIR) Post #B7aUzg9V6AuODXEPRI by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@Lili yeah me neither. If you wanna read up about it, it's just a crun backendhttps://github.com/containers/crun/blob/fe55c271a3572be0f0b00573cfb55385ea7e7f77/krun.1.md
(DIR) Post #B7aUzgMGKj7Ir7CbKa by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili extremely happy to report that i have no fucking clue what crun is, and i will not be finding out after a glowing recommendation titled “A user you’ve blocked has previously contributed to this repository.”
(DIR) Post #B7aV0Vu2gtROieOnZ2 by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili Why the fuck is anyone using any container runtime. Ive been trying to find a reason but I just can’t.
(DIR) Post #B7aVldgxY7B2UEkbqa by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@domi @Lili VMs but easier
(DIR) Post #B7aVldu4lLfX8ut5I8 by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili it’s not a VM tho and honestly it creates more problems than it solves, at least for myself
(DIR) Post #B7aWH5Nudcb5Lqpvt2 by ar@is-a.cat
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@domi @Lili @Mae I love how the microslop is megaslopping slophub so hard, the slopwarning gets displayed twice xD
(DIR) Post #B7aWg88hX8C98OfDHs by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@domi @Lili `podman run --rm -it ubuntu sh` is easier than having to find an ubuntu cd image, and run qemu with a live cd, install it to a block device and all of that over serial instead of a proper TTY
(DIR) Post #B7aWg8JgsGz9gTnzPs by Lili@donotsta.re
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@Mae @domi truncate -s32G hda.img; qemu-system-x86_64 -accel kvm -cdrom netboot.xyz.iso -hda hda.img, next question (of course you need more options than that but yeah
(DIR) Post #B7aWqs1dmiGyLMTykK by domi@donotsta.re
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@Lili @Mae (fwiw you are oversimplifying, BUT) starting up a VM that won’t be destroyed immediately after you’re done with it (read: creating a Place you can come back to next time when you need the same thing) just sits better with my brain… (and for a lot of shit you don’t even need containers :/)
(DIR) Post #B7aX20fXzKBEKwSakC by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@Lili @domi ok, but like again compare that to`podman run --rm -it ubuntu bash`
(DIR) Post #B7aX20vr0hDx9W5cA4 by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@Lili @domi also great, how do you mount a directory from host? How do you give it gpu access?VMs are good and have use cases, but so do containers
(DIR) Post #B7aX215mPnADeIjXdI by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili how do you mount a directory from host?qemu-ga? nfs? sshfs? you configure it once and then forget, we did this for 15+ years before containers came alongHow do you give it gpu access?ironically that’s easier to do securely on qemu-kvm than it is on containers. in containers it’s literally impossible unless you want to expose root access to your containerVMs are good and have use cases, but so do containersSURE, but 90% of uses of containers amount to “uwu i didn’t want to read how to deploy this properly, now pat me on my little head”
(DIR) Post #B7aXJi0O7PfXfFeE1w by Lili@donotsta.re
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@Mae @domi -nic smb=/directory or sshfs as on any other machine; you redirect a device; next
(DIR) Post #B7aXJiDrJKRcL1wz1k by domi@donotsta.re
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@Lili @Mae also hold on wasn’t virtiofs a thing that solves literally this problem
(DIR) Post #B7aXKtK5Wbnp3UQUN6 by ar@is-a.cat
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@Mae @domi @Lili How do you give it gpu access?virtio native context?
(DIR) Post #B7aXNLOy6G1QidsX56 by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@Lili @domi you have to deal with guest mounting that, which is another thing you need to do, I can't be bothered
(DIR) Post #B7aXNLZxROoRGj1JD6 by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili virtiofs….
(DIR) Post #B7aXiuT6uwl1Yf6Dey by Mae@is.badat.dev
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@domi @Lili virtiofs doesn't auto mount
(DIR) Post #B7aXiugE8BFWDLEh6W by domi@donotsta.re
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@Mae @Lili … go touch grass
(DIR) Post #B7anlOJQWp7Fxkm6qG by kytta@polymaths.social
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@domi @Lili @Mae pretty much solves packaging by introducing easy-to-write build instructions (Containerfiles); so easy, that the burden falls on the original developer rather than OS maintainer or the consumer.Use case: I want to spin up paperless-ngx (or any other self-hosted software). If I'm not on NixOS or Alpine or Arch, there is probably no package ready. So I'll have to clone the repo, install all dependencies, figure out conflicts, and then keep it up-to-date. For any sort of isolation, I'd have to create a VM that I'll have to maintain together with the software running inside.Or, instead, I could just podman run <URL> and it just works
(DIR) Post #B7anlOhX5COlAW3MPo by domi@donotsta.re
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@kytta @Lili packaging is not something that should be done directly by the developer, because then you get mailcow with 700 lines of docker-compose.yml, with stuff defined seemingly anywhere where it’d fit, with no rhyme or reason for the designOSS is already really hard to customize as it stands, docker makes this ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE, short of maintaining your own.. everything. and if i wanted a clean, sanitized, centrist-approved looking application, i’d just switch to microsoft(this is just one problem with containers and docker, there are so many more)
(DIR) Post #B7antS5YN96rzW85dQ by kytta@polymaths.social
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@domi @Lili @Mae I personally really don't care about isolation at all. I just want self-hostable software to be as easy to run as CLIs. Which means either choose a distro where the packagers package this stuff or use containers
(DIR) Post #B7antSK5V6jgiavhI0 by domi@donotsta.re
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@kytta @Lili sorry but i can’t with a straight face accept that containers are as easy to run as CLIs. you have 5 needless layers of abstraction, the only thing worse for CLI usage is flatpak
(DIR) Post #B7ao9TRB7pQmo8sshk by domi@donotsta.re
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@kytta @Lili picture that mental gymnastics meme: dockerfile -> docker-compose -> upload to a centralized webpage (yes, you can NOT do that, but almost everyone uses one of two container registries) -> docker run --rm -it container .... and you still have to deal with volumebinds and whateverVSmake; make install; util <params>(I feel like both are oversimplified to an equal extent; there’s way more to the “Dockerfile” step, just as there’s way more to buildsystems than make)
(DIR) Post #B7aoUAm7hpWN0dYDya by domi@donotsta.re
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@Lili @kytta honestly i don’t know why i’m even replying, it’s not like i’m trying to change your mind. it’s not like i couldboth sides of the barricade are so far apart that it’s impossible to give a concrete analysis to any of those arguments because you will refute everything I say as bonkers, and I can only take your argument seriously because those ARE your preferred tools, and who am I to police what you usewhat ever
(DIR) Post #B7aqE3IHx98v582Ldg by domi@donotsta.re
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@famfo @kytta my “CVE-2026-27771 is a feature, actually” shirt raises many questions already answered by the shirt(gods that would go hard)
(DIR) Post #B7aqWeM2twEzEff84W by sotolf@polymaths.social
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@domi @Lili @kyttaWell I tend to think of containers as the developers answer to "we'll ship your laptop then""ship your computer because it's the only one it compiles cleanly on" as a service :p
(DIR) Post #B7aqdDt5hfVRB1FlaK by domi@donotsta.re
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@sotolf @Lili @kytta i thought that used to be a punchline, the “why are we doing this again? because you’re lazy?”, but i’ve met too many people who nod and smile at this concept to be sure
(DIR) Post #B7asaguDYeCCDMhVPE by radex@social.hackerspace.pl
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@domi @Lili @kytta IMO, it’s not that containers are good, it’s that everything else is shit. We could deal with the shit, but it’s easier to put the shit in a container so it doesn’t stink so bad.
(DIR) Post #B7asb8ynBEUZHf3YQK by radex@social.hackerspace.pl
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@domi @Lili @kytta (by shit I mean complicated and fragile build systems, binaries that have non-trivial dependencies on the system or are otherwise influenced by the environment in tricky ways)
(DIR) Post #B7aseLVF4i64zdlGUa by domi@donotsta.re
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@radex @Lili @kytta … and this is probably the sanest take i’ve read in this whole thread
(DIR) Post #B7awclAx3Lmpqxlmz2 by radex@social.hackerspace.pl
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@domi @Lili @kytta >sanest; just so you don’t think I’m normal or something, I mostly use containers because i like distributed systems (k8s). And it’s not like I need scale, HA, and certainly it’s not like this makes my life any easier.
(DIR) Post #B7awohIfHveTJB4OkC by domi@donotsta.re
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@radex @Lili @kytta that’s also a surprisingly sane message! honestly i respect being realistic about this way more than people who look at me weird when i tell them i’m Not Interested in k8s because for Most Cases it doesn’t help me at alli shall continue yearning for the UNIX-like deployment practices, you know where to find me
(DIR) Post #B7awrjM26g3IY45k5w by kytta@polymaths.social
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@domi @Lili yeah I feel you, and nothing you say is bonkers, because, as @radex already said, it's all shit :DI wish I had the time to figure out how to spin up apps without using containers in a way that suits me best. I really hate having ten poorly isolated Postgres instances on one machine. But while the time is lacking, containers are sadly the quickest way to get shit done :(
(DIR) Post #B7awrjYRMXydAXteQy by domi@donotsta.re
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@kytta @Lili @radex for postgres i literally just have one instance and multiple users. works alright