Post B7SmyEThfKe3301rBg by ticho@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by ticho@mas.to
(DIR) Post #B7SmqJaolVamasa6bo by rotnroll666@mastodon.social
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@dalias @conservancy kinda stopped reading after “There are many intersecting ethical and moral issues regarding these systems, many of which are not currently fully understood.”They are well understood and visible.
(DIR) Post #B7Smv40W8gq5hirmU4 by ciatmusings@raru.re
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@dalias @conservancy I still remember the exchange you had with that UX guy that criticized Fedi for not gaining traction, and then questioned *your* *personal* power to judge if something is right or wrong. These people cannot envision a world in which a community coalesces around a limit they deem important, and fully rejects something. They don't respect agency, unless it's a corporation's, in which case they just let it do whatever they want, kind of an extension of the "they must be right if they got all that moneu and power" kind of thinking.
(DIR) Post #B7SmyEThfKe3301rBg by ticho@mas.to
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@dalias @conservancy I'm all for shunning such "contributors" even harder. And ridiculing, there should probably also be some ridiculing.
(DIR) Post #B7TwKDu3ZrGENesOLQ by chris@mastodon.chrispelli.fun
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@dalias @conservancy I do understand your point that the way LLMs were sourced and their power dynamics are at least problematic. Still there might come a time when we all will struggle to identify LLM code. This is the point where bad code, written by humans, might be confused with LLM code and real humans get blamed for using LLMs. I think realistically it well be more helpful to disallow or discourage huge PRs and bad code. I am not happy about that but it seems more realistic to me.
(DIR) Post #B7TwKEOBlpMbt6ySJM by pelle@veganism.social
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@chris @daliasif you can't tell whether some patch or pull request is LLM generated, you can ask the author.i can't tell, from the looks of it, whether a burger is vegan. so i ask the kitchen.the solution to not being able to tell is to ask, not to eat the maybe horse or dog meat burger, or merge possibly-vibed slop.
(DIR) Post #B7TwKF3fHcXZxkNZxY by ska@social.treehouse.systems
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@TheEntity @pelle @chris @dalias No, I think a large amount of people don't understand (or understand but don't respect, which is the same) boundaries, principles and basic social contracts, and haven't for a long time; and are in the FOSS business because it's a job. And the obvious breach of all the social contracts by the LLM corporations, without consequences, has made these people believe that it was a socially acceptable thing, so now they're letting it all hang out.Crises do not change people. They reveal them.
(DIR) Post #B7UqIBtyj1RJzLscbo by chris@mastodon.chrispelli.fun
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@dalias @conservancy Don't misunderstand me. I don't have anything against disallowing AI in your project.I just think that it might be like fighting windmills. I am fairly certain that I can create an LLM assisted PR that you will not be able to detect because I can actually write good code.I just think it's sad if we started mistrusting each other over LLMs. It's okay to ban commits clearly marked as LLM generated. If not I'd rather assume it's a human.
(DIR) Post #B7UqICAzhl3Cq7qD8C by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@chris @dalias @conservancy unfortunately…I just think it's sad if we started mistrusting each other over LLMs… we’ve been there for 2+ years already. For code, for writing, for images. And it’s really sad that that has become a necessity, but I fully blame the fashtech bros.I'd rather assume it's a humanI’d like to be able to do that, but these days, you cannot.
(DIR) Post #B7UqMGKGDeCGrq7AYq by chris@mastodon.chrispelli.fun
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@dalias @conservancy I'm sorry if this came out as a threat. It was not meant as such. What I mean is that I'm confident that I could and that leaves me to believe that a lot of other people might as well. At that point you get to a cat and mouse game where some innocent people might get caught in the crossfire. If there was a surefire way for you to block LLM code I'd support that even. More power to you. What I fear is that we all will just be ever more angry, frustrated and distrustful.
(DIR) Post #B7UqNsfJ9wS244jOFc by mancube@pnw.zone
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@chris @daliasthis is just the same dipshit genx playbook where people start rambling about witch hunts and theoreticals and then run straight to "well if I'm going to be under scrutiny for possibly doing something wrong I'm just gonna do it"@conservancy
(DIR) Post #B7UqNsuuDwvaqS1qYy by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@mancube @chris @dalias @conservancy oy, leave GenX out of that
(DIR) Post #B7UqU5qz2RYChm9eOu by jlink@det.social
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@dalias @conservancy I always get „But your licence allows it. Change your licence!“ As if any AI tool cared. As if the right licence existed. As if any normal human being were able to create their own custom-made licence.
(DIR) Post #B7UqU64oD2brOecgwy by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@jlink @dalias @conservancy it actually doesn’t allow that, fun thing. Not that they care.
(DIR) Post #B7UqdJa5MxuFt0eETY by jlink@det.social
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@dalias @conservancy AFAIK that holds for copyright aspects but not usage of a tool / library. And even with copyright some argue that „training“ is not restricted because fair use.
(DIR) Post #B7UqdJocUvX4c5Rq88 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@jlink @dalias @conservancy the excuse used for “training” is the Text and Data Mining exception to copyright law.Which demands that an explicit machine-readable opt-out (sad and bad as that is) is honoured, which the fashbros don’t.Which is for “automatisierte Analyse von einzelnen oder mehreren digitalen oder digitalisierten Werken, um daraus Informationen insbesondere über Muster, Trends und Korrelationen zu gewinnen” and decidedly not “generative AI” (regurgitative). It does not even cover distribution of a model so made.The second you use a model for regurgitating instead of analysis, the TDM exception you might have been under is null and void.
(DIR) Post #B7UqtPtleIe073X2i8 by mancube@pnw.zone
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@daliasmore addled genx nonsense from the same people who want to tell you it's wrong to close the doors to your community to sex pests, fascists, and other creeps @conservancy
(DIR) Post #B7UqtQDGToEx5Wec6K by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@mancube @dalias @conservancy oy, leave GenX out of that!
(DIR) Post #B7V9Blm2qzK2LUowvQ by erisceleste@tech.lgbt
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@emma this is the moderate/compromise positiona strict position would be to also permanently ban individuals based on past usage and to make liberal use of public shaming@conservancy
(DIR) Post #B7VDfbhNHGyRbN7SDI by jlink@det.social
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@mirabilos @dalias @conservancy Morally I'm fully on your side. I just don't think that eventually highest jurisdictation (anywhere in the Western world) will decide against AI tech.
(DIR) Post #B7VDfbtmX8tmDqvMYK by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@conservancy @jlink @dalias doesn’t make it right, or even legal
(DIR) Post #B7VEJ0PnJfV1YIgPU8 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@conservancy @dalias @jlink (something can be both illegal and not held in by a court at the same time; easiest way is too low value, possibly combined with lower court declining to act and the value is insufficient for higher court, even if recurring, BTST)