Post B6uaVXomK6bzdGYEOe by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) More posts by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) Post #B6uMczizZByCqtVEzA by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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Holy shit st actually works but it crashes when its not invoked with any arguments and I DONT KNOW WHY! also it still sends ^H instead of ^? for backspace...
(DIR) Post #B6uMczvOp3tXTNJ9KC by sicp@freebeerextremist.com
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@kirby i'm sorry for you having to fuck with shitty terminals
(DIR) Post #B6uMd05gCq7NzG7MLg by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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the only problem is then it completely breaks other terminals which try to emulate the loonix way of doing backspace stuff by default. fedibbs started spitting out fucking ^?'s whenever i would hit backspace when that line was in my bashrc. awful stuff
(DIR) Post #B6uMd0H1WfByYRQQ1w by sicp@freebeerextremist.com
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@kirby I was only able to build fedibbs on plan 9, didn't bother figuring out how to make it work on linux. And like, if you're on 9front then you use vt(1) as an ansi terminal and that's probably what @p is using. suckless stuff is mostly crap made for masochist dudes who enjoy house-of-cards systems and get a boner when they have to debug fundamental shit as their daily routine, like I stuck with slackware early on cause I hate that shit but apparently there's a large modicum of people that get off to having their shit not work; I don't get it but hey you do you, some people like to spend money importing russian cars for the same reason. Just use xterm or something.
(DIR) Post #B6uMd0VYeconHWE1gW by kirby@freerobuxextremist.com
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@sicp @kirby @p >just use xtermoh my god xterm is the thing i had to fuck up the tty for, other terminal emulators use the new code, st happens to be one of them. xterm is an old pile of legacy dogcrap that only really works well on debian because the debian package maintainers lobotomized it into behaving like any other terminal would.....
(DIR) Post #B6uMgWjFJZIc56J2Ho by kirby@freerobuxextremist.com
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@sicp @kirby @p and before you whine "your initial responses were ambigious", learn to how to mind read, fucker
(DIR) Post #B6uN4kWlf9mPpM1HMm by kirby@freerobuxextremist.com
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@kirby @p @sicp (oh wait i said initially that it sent ^H as well, how did i come to thet conclusion again I've already forgotten)
(DIR) Post #B6uORitxyQUROpOBuK by sicp@freebeerextremist.com
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@kirby @kirby @p > the new codeI wasn't aware there was a new code, like I don't think there's been a new ANSI terminal spec in the past 40 years and emulating a VT100 isn't very hard and xterm does it fine for my purposes.> xterm is an old pile of legacy dogcrap that only really works well on debian because the debian package maintainers lobotomized it into behaving like any other terminal would.....Debian and Ubuntu and Arch the like do that a lot and it's the reason a ton of shit either only works on debian or doesn't work at all on debian because they fuck around with the source in a way that shit becomes unreproducible. Slackware doesn't change the source of anything at all, not even the kernel; so you get this strange grey zone where if something works at all like the way it's supposed to it will at least work on Slackware. All my stuff works on Slackware, and the brief periods of time where I used debian deriviatives the only memories that stick out was shit not working ever.
(DIR) Post #B6uS2GzizhctQMCcWe by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@kirby @sicp This is a terminal setting. ^H and ^? are handled ridiculously in Linux; `stty erase` is responsible for this. fedibbs just reads stdin and writes stdout.
(DIR) Post #B6uShUFgblWwPkJwcy by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@sicp @kirby I'm actually usually running it in acme. When I run it on Linux, I generally use rlwrap for it. You can even wrap ssh in it. But because it does zero terminal interaction (which is why it'll run over anything and no terminal emulator is needed), any terminal weirdness comes from the terminal.If the terminal is st, it may be doing something weird.acme.gif
(DIR) Post #B6uTvlrS2Ccz2JMNXc by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@kirby @sicp @kirby > xterm is an old pile of legacy dogcrapIt's emulating a "glass tty" (a VT-100), which is itself emulating an ASR-33 Teletype from 1959. Terminal emulators are "legacy dogcrap". You wanna see some dumb shit, this is still supported and it is designed to help you adjust the sync on the screen and spot problems: `awk 'BEGIN{printf "%c[2K%c[0m%c#8\r", 27, 27, 27}'` . xterm supports it, most terminal emulators support it, despite them being inside X and not a CRT.I recommend rxvt-unicode if you're gonna use one and you are using Linux. It's a nice enough terminal emulator. Faster and more reliable than st.
(DIR) Post #B6uV4c4PuEeHENCkVs by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby Incidentally Plan9's win feels very much like a return-to-teletype, like if someone in bell labs just hated the shit out of VT100-style terminals (and well… I don't think they're entirely wrong).
(DIR) Post #B6uV7MC5OFnIrO6H4K by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@sicp @kirby @kirby > xterm does it fine for my purposes.I get weirdness when I run dvtm in it for some reason; urxvt does fine.> debian deriviativesIt seems like a contradictory approach to use both Debian and st.Slackware's not bad. CRUX is my preference, but distros are distros: it's Linux, it sucks.
(DIR) Post #B6uV85qNfHlSROIaci by sicp@freebeerextremist.com
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@kirby @kirby @p :brain3:
(DIR) Post #B6uZDW7JoD6nBr3yOe by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp Well, it's a text stream. In that sense, sure. It doesn't have in-band control messages so it's not quite a return to the thing itself, but in spirit, sure.> like if someone in bell labs just hated the shit out of VT100-style terminalsRob Pike. Plan 9 is, in part, what happened when Pike came back from PARC. He wanted to never emulate a text-based terminal again.
(DIR) Post #B6uZNzPVkeHkwDZAMC by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp The three things that happened after Xerox PARC: the Mac, Windows, and Plan 9. I like the Unix branch of evolution, obviously.
(DIR) Post #B6uaVXomK6bzdGYEOe by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby Ah yeah, reminds me of https://commandcenter.blogspot.com/2019/01/notes-from-1984-trip-to-xerox-parc.html
(DIR) Post #B6udT0luW88yQNh3fk by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp That is the thing I was thinking of. It's a really interesting piece because most of what you get is "The mouse! Macintosh! 'I GOT THE LOOT, STEVE!'"
(DIR) Post #B6ueJqq6B02Gy2qf1U by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby Haha, this is why I have a bunch of bookmarks ^^https://hacktivis.me/bookmarks
(DIR) Post #B6ueKJ0hRB9WL21WQy by haematophage@fabula.schizophreni.ca
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby i got kind of emotional from this reply tbh like>It's emulating a "glass tty" (a VT-100), which is itself emulating an ASR-33 Teletype from 1959.i can't believe there are people who complain about this instead of finding it beautiful. it's a borderline spiritual exercise to use a computer and celebrate the heritage that hasn't been abandoned, to know that despite living in an entirely different world there is continuity and to appreciate the love and care of all the people who have toiled to maintain that continuity
(DIR) Post #B6ueKJJ8KdtjGCeFAO by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@haematophage @kirby @kirby @sicp Who's complaining? I just said it's pointless to describe xterm as "old thus bad" when any terminal emulator is emulating some 1959 shit.I don't think it's a great thing (it definitely feels clunky rather than spiritual to me to force text streams, which are great, through some terminal emulator, which is less great), but I wasn't complaining about anything except the `stty erase` boshit and the features like #8 that were irrelevant by 1989 but that everyone includes for no reason.
(DIR) Post #B6uei3sTLsnoM4VFc8 by allison@hidamari.apartments
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby @lanodan Meanwhile Oberon is the Unix to Cedar's Multics and nobody bats an eye. Funny how things work out
(DIR) Post #B6uekriD2VyrUd2Vm4 by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@allison @kirby @kirby @lanodan @sicp I mean, acme is explicitly modeled on Oberon.
(DIR) Post #B6ueoJZltmO0mQjnKi by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp I have it in my wiki somewhere.
(DIR) Post #B6ufJkSO0RXZ7vGuuW by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp Apparently I copypasta'd the entire thing. (I am in the thing so my ability to access stuff is slower than it might be otherwise.)screenshote_2026-06-02_05:27:34.png
(DIR) Post #B6ufTvcpKxoyf20fI0 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby I may also have copy-pasta'd the whole thing into a txt file somewhere but that stuff is a pain to organise.
(DIR) Post #B6ugfwkd4plXa7xC40 by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp awkiawki is nice because it is just text files; I'm a fan of the entire situation.
(DIR) Post #B6uh8mAdUhNBAGrhCK by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby Well my entire web stuff except pleroma is also just text files.Problem is more that for 3rd-party stuff I tend to just dump them into folders at nearly random places, purely hoarder behavior there rather than say archivist.Like here's another one of Rob Pike: https://hacktivis.me/datalove/txt/rob%20pike%20-%20A%20lesson%20in%20shortcuts.txt
(DIR) Post #B6v9Awt5PvbHhMTs9Y by kirby@freerobuxextremist.com
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@p @sicp @kirby >Terminal emulators are "legacy dogcrap".Trve. Pike actually had a point by not emulating a full on vt100 terminal with 9term, it's a lot more convenient to actually be able to manipulate the input line using the mouse. Now if only rc had those nice bash macros like !! so I could repeat the previous command without having to copy paste it using chords
(DIR) Post #B6vIT3UeUieyzClDbk by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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Hi! My name is- who- my name is- what- my name is chicka chicka XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set in the environment. Aborting.
(DIR) Post #B6vLhxwJj1vVy3VC3U by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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I installed elogind, seatd, and polkit because that's apparently required for elogind to work and sway STILL doesn't launch, the variable somehow still remains unset. I am on the verge of fuckin' losin it
(DIR) Post #B6vMHs1xAl5M49G7t2 by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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Yeah.
(DIR) Post #B6vc9l4ckjwrRIf6bw by kirby@fsebugoutzone.org
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that requires seatd and a bunch of other crap that i don't think i want on my system eating up memory. x is the winner here.... by the virtue of not requiring a million things to run in the background in order to have.. an experience at all
(DIR) Post #B6yJg5d8TJbaP3zAHI by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@lanodan @kirby @kirby @sicp > purely hoarder behavior there rather than say archivistI understand and share the impulse. My shit's organized but it's often haphazard. I find a thing, then I have a thing, it's in a place, I don't know the place.A couple of years ago I had to split ~/doc and ~/data because `find doc | grep` started taking 15 minutes and it turned out to be because of the local copies of big chunks of data, including the CVE list (which is all stupid goddamn JSON files and I get *why* they would do that--they're giving you something to ingest, not something to read--but it is still inconvenient unless you actually ingest it and provide an update mechanism and is annoying for grep-ass motherfuckers such as me, and in this case, really bad for walking a tree).> Grabbed from <http://web.archive.org/web/20120805161513/https://plus.google.com/101960720994009339267/posts/R58WgWwN9jp>, done because on WebKit you end up with `visibility:hidden`.That was the dumbest fucking thing about Goggle Plos, it was this abomination of "Look, we're gonna show you text, but you've gotta execute a bucket of JavaScript first. Fuck you. We *are* the internet." And then they kill it, which, you know...good riddance, but also all of that shit has disappeared and they killed their public Usenet archive after *buying* the world's biggest Usenet archive.> Rob Pike - A lesson in shortcuts.Oh, yeah, I remember reading this one.
(DIR) Post #B6yK2bY6Tl3hliMrFQ by sicp@freebeerextremist.com
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@allison @kirby @kirby @p @lanodan Text buffers and hyperlinks being the main interface protocol is a branch of evolution that I wish could've made it further. Like, it's probably the strongest link between the xerox, the lisp machine, the oberon, the acme way of doing things and it works damn well cause it's so easy to design for. Engelbart did it Emacs still does it. Terry fucking Davis did it. I guess it was doomed to fail cause it makes sense to a hacker but not to a normie that just wants pictures to drag around and icons to gawk at, and HTTP kind of sank expectations for what it could be used for.
(DIR) Post #B6yLdK8uG4tWS6efHU by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@sicp @allison @kirby @kirby @lanodan > Text buffers and hyperlinks being the main interface protocol is a branch of evolution that I wish could've made it further.We're doing it. I'm doing it. Even LLMs are doing it. (But they always use goddamn Latex for math and aside from the syntax being truly abominable, most Latex authors--fuck their stupid internal capitalization--see no problem with writing shit like `δ_entiregoddamnsentence` instead of just specifying things like "Where δ is $entire_goddamn_sentence".)> it works damn well cause it's so easy to design forYeah, like, fedibbs went from "nothing" to "basically all the features you need" in about a week of intermittently half-assing it. This is way faster than any of the JS frontends were written, I'm pretty sure, and also one guy can do it instead of a handful of guys squinting at sub-pixel alignments and shitty AOP horseshit.> I guess it was doomed to fail cause it makes sense to a hacker but not to a normieDoomed to not be widely adopted by normies; I don't think it's failed. It is a delightful way to work.
(DIR) Post #B6yMRXxZA26jmhIZw8 by haematophage@fabula.schizophreni.ca
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@p @sicp @kirby @kirby oh I wasn’t implying you were complaining, I meant the person you replied to
(DIR) Post #B6yMSwzhZKVfiVy0qO by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@haematophage @kirby @kirby @sicp I mean, I *would*, I just wasn't. :bwksmug:
(DIR) Post #B6yN0UgTKd1llCy1eC by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@kirby @kirby @sicp > Now if only rc had those nice bash macros like !!This is the kind of thinking that got us bash. It shouldn't be built into rc, so it's not. (It is also nicer to use ditto marks than bangs: http://git.9front.org/plan9front/9front/9e0401458da01fdb7ff5a7e048933308aa93ba32/rc/bin/%22%22/f.html )
(DIR) Post #B6yPxvVNSGn3wEFFp2 by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@judgedread > I remember when RSS was declared dead and went away on a lot of sites and wondering why.Yep. PR push by Google because they failed to monetize it even after buying feedburner.com and owning a popular RSS reader. Attempting to kill RSS and XMPP are capital crimes even if Google had done nothing else. (Slack is still pushing "email is dead" but email is too useful for even a "unicorn" to kill it. Many such cases.)I think RSS is somewhat less dead than people expect; most of the stuff I have . People still use it, search engines still love it. I use it. It's extremely useful to be able to subscribe to a comma-separated list of fedi-related domains, so https://fedilist.com/instance/recent-changes?host=freespeechextremist.com%2Cdsmc.space%2Cpoa.st%2Ckiwifarms.cc%2Cfsebugoutzone.org%2Cshitposter.world links tohttps://fedilist.com/instance/recent-changes/rss?host=freespeechextremist.com%2Cdsmc.space%2Cpoa.st%2Ckiwifarms.cc%2Cfsebugoutzone.org%2Cshitposter.world and you can see the status changes. The @fedilist bot uses the RSS feed ( https://fedilist.com/instance/newest/rss ) to get its data (it is always better to consume your own public interfaces if you want to have good public interfaces).
(DIR) Post #B6yUBj1r2Nwf7BGsN6 by ins0mniak@fsebugoutzone.org
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@p @judgedread @fedilist If I cant use rss I dont use the site. I have custom shit that downloads the html page everynight by cron job. I just read it offline where ever.
(DIR) Post #B6yUDHEbLbBPUVyPZI by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@ins0mniak @fedilist @judgedread Sensible.
(DIR) Post #B6yVwrTRYaFis4DRjM by ins0mniak@fsebugoutzone.org
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@p @fedilist @judgedread all I need is a shell.
(DIR) Post #B6yW1vdDWgdzDJCgYi by p@fsebugoutzone.org
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@ins0mniak @fedilist @judgedread "Give me a keyboard, a teletype, a cable long enough, and a place to stand, and I will hack the planet."