Post B6rBJIaY2XKCaz4yem by thomholwerda@exquisite.social
(DIR) More posts by thomholwerda@exquisite.social
(DIR) Post #B6qodrkyhHO4VunPlY by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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I am not happy with the LLM policy that the Alpine council has proposed. I am evaluating where I go from here.
(DIR) Post #B6qq61i5NsYPRiR2LQ by ananas@scicomm.xyz
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@ariadne I take nothing is public yet?
(DIR) Post #B6qq61vYZnKU7UjnLE by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ananas the proposal is on the council ticket. it is essentially a don't-ask-don't-tell policy. this proposal is the worst possible outcome IMO.
(DIR) Post #B6qqBCE3iMGfVXr5bk by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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what I will say is that should the council push this policy forward, I will likely be forking Alpine, and anyone who is presently an Alpine or postmarketOS developer is welcome to join me
(DIR) Post #B6qqnrxezW03x6cqyO by dysfun@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne oh god, i dread to think what it says.
(DIR) Post #B6r26GiYmjIRRQXSq0 by meph@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne lets just go work on adelie lmao
(DIR) Post #B6r5oC4Pj1qhdDOhUW by kerio@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne sounds like the perfect logical followup to "LLM coding has managed to break even fucking rsync" 🙃
(DIR) Post #B6r8n0KYBgtqnJ4NPc by zardoz@ioc.exchange
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@ariadne i shouldnt have been surprised by this given how pervasive the rot is but god damn it
(DIR) Post #B6r9MIv34EAMa6yQ4W by mattclarke@ieji.de
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@ariadne typical, I had just decided to put Alpine on my new laptop.Now that looks like a mistake
(DIR) Post #B6rBJIaY2XKCaz4yem by thomholwerda@exquisite.social
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@ariadne oh ffs is nothing sacred
(DIR) Post #B6rhws2VMhQ0N64L5M by nube@verse.averagedood.xyz
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@ariadne@treehouse.systems Wouldn't it be better to discuss it privately and press for changes internally rather than take the nuclear option?
(DIR) Post #B6rhwsEucZLKzZsFQO by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@nube I have been trying for the past several years. although it does not look that way to some, one does not go from zero to rallying a fork on a dime.
(DIR) Post #B6ri2Eg0d0Hq1l6Zkm by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@meph with all due respect if I wanted to be a Tacoma Rainier I would be a Tacoma Rainier.
(DIR) Post #B6riNRYLwsVq2odWt6 by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@meph like there are three possible outcomes here1. alpine council does a 180 on this and makes a decision reflecting the developer quorum on the ticket2. alpine fork is launched and I join the fork3. I go use NixOS or something equivalently novel
(DIR) Post #B6rj85p0YyD8FwffMG by ananas@scicomm.xyz
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@ariadne Thanks. The comments in the ticket were interesting read.Though I got to say, I do agree with your point of view there.
(DIR) Post #B6rj86FEzRC7ZIwcFM by grahamperrin@bsd.cafe
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@ananas a private ticket, yes?I should reserve judgement until I see what's being discussed.
(DIR) Post #B6rj86QaJGGi8UFfvc by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ananas @grahamperrin it is public. council issue 697.
(DIR) Post #B6rjLfungD95xjrBHk by grahamperrin@bsd.cafe
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@ariadne thanks. Found: https://gitlab.alpinelinux.org/alpine/council/-/work_items/697
(DIR) Post #B6rkr9ip0bRhL0pSIi by witix@mk.absturztau.be
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@ariadne@social.treehouse.systems @ananas@scicomm.xyz it does sound slightly better than an "AI welcome" policy. It casts a spark of hostility and I hope AI bros follow up on it (or not, and get yeeted for proudly boasting it)
(DIR) Post #B6rkr9yQ4bvG7O7uc4 by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ananas @witix the assisted-by lines are for provenance not for boasting. banning disclosure is horrid for provenance.
(DIR) Post #B6rn1UTCvEtyUWa5om by meph@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne my biggest gripe with alpine is that docs are frequently excluded from packages, and tests are frequently skipped entirely. 😭I appreciated that Adelie did a better job at ensuring these things were done well, and that package splits were consistent. I also liked being able to have a chance at using it on my workstation without having to deal with container brained packager maintainer mindsets ruining my experience. I sort of miss contributing to it, Anna was fun to work with. It's a shame we all had to get real jobs.It seems to me like Adelie makes a large amount of similar architectural and systems design choices as Alpine, such as using musl and apk. The standalone user installation and setup process is arguably a bit better than Alpine (in some manners, but worse in others). One thing I believe is missing from Adelie is that that I like alpine's ability to install a "diskless" (squashfs, I think?) system out of the box.Anyway, I realize that each distro has a slightly different target audience, but I don't understand the "Tacoma Rainier" reference.
(DIR) Post #B6rpMoNOJ3pkDd9fea by nube@verse.averagedood.xyz
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@ariadne@treehouse.systems I have read the entire discussion on Alpine Gitlab, sorry for misunderstanding you at first :neofox_sad:I think mentioning a fork is still a line that is nuclear and can be harmful to the project, for many here you are the closest connection to Alpine, for you to say so can damage the image of the project.But really the lack of interest in taking a clear stance is disappointing, I expected more from Alpine. In the end you were right about this.
(DIR) Post #B6rpModLLkat16cPWC by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@nube for me it's not just the LLM issues, but the fact that the governance needs reform. the fact that council proposes an outcome entirely different than what the developer quorum is establishes that the governance needs reform.as somebody who has founded many things, sometimes the best thing to do for a founder in a mature institutional project is to stay out of the way and support the quorum even if they disagree. views can evolve over time.
(DIR) Post #B6rrqzRTvZtd8RaPeS by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
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@ariadne @ananas @witix Yeh that's weird; I personally think AI is OK for some almost mechanical stuff, but that it's right to declare; so even I agree that's an odd thing.
(DIR) Post #B6rw2KHVBkm2lhZyvA by beckermatic@mastodon.la
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@ariadnePlease call it “Andine”.
(DIR) Post #B6s5jMcXGZDQ3y0xFI by adrienne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne @meph isn't NixOS infested with fash? or am i confusing it with another project?
(DIR) Post #B6s9k3N4ihY4T6MpLE by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@meph @adrienne there's a lot of intersectionality with the military contractors now
(DIR) Post #B6sB8rCtBRI5w2zgfo by xarvos@outerheaven.club
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@ariadne @meph why not something with better AI policy, like gentoo?
(DIR) Post #B6sB8raHmS0R6bwN8q by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@meph @xarvos I certainly have the machine for it 😂
(DIR) Post #B6sRKCfpJFkUxtxfm4 by adrienne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne @meph That wasn't what i was thinking -- i meant private fash -- but yeah, that's also bad.
(DIR) Post #B6taRQLlx6ZA9f3j3w by lumi@snug.moe
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@xarvos @ariadne @meph aerynos has a strict no-ai policy as wellaerynos.dev/faq/general-faq/#what-is-aerynos-position-on-the-use-of-llms
(DIR) Post #B6tltouNL2Q3vNzGq0 by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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update on the LLM policy: we are figuring out a path forward that nobody will love, but we can likely mostly be happy with
(DIR) Post #B6tm6nPiCrCz3OpeIy by dysfun@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne i consider the view you went in with as being fairly moderate. i doubt i'll be happy with the policy.
(DIR) Post #B6tmHaxspb3Bd6xswq by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@dysfun by happy i mean 'midwest happy'. fake smiles, but you're still alive and that counts a win.
(DIR) Post #B6tmKjtM66IIBXLWSm by tknarr@mstdn.social
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@ariadne I hope it at least includes "contributors are responsible for their code regardless of the tools used to produce it".
(DIR) Post #B6tmNruoiqjbwFWQfw by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@tknarr it will!
(DIR) Post #B6tmW4Qc5G0t3yIzlQ by dysfun@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne i don't consider i am terribly demanding of my distro or its maintainers, but i do aspire to a bit more than "still alive".
(DIR) Post #B6tpMDcbLdfaXguHAG by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@dysfun look, my concern is in protecting the maintainer development pipeline we've built in alpine, because we've built one of the best ones in Linux IMO for actually learning.i think we have come to an agreement on principles that achieve that, while also not painting ourselves into any specific corner.negotiations are ongoing, but the situation is less dire than it was.
(DIR) Post #B6tqDxeavr52elSurw by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@dysfun besides, i am not particularly worried about a deluge of vibe coded slops anyway, since it's getting too expensive.
(DIR) Post #B6tqLYQ0dkH0hvGQ1g by dysfun@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne i am still waiting for the dust to settle on today (a month today will be a veeeeeery interesting day), but given how well it's gone, i admit i am starting to wonder if they might have just solved our problem for us.
(DIR) Post #B6trXifwQl4Jwq54Do by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@dysfun ultimately what i care about is protecting what we've built: people who cross paths with alpine tend to go on to build incredible things.i think the cost increases for commercial AI are helpful here, in that Alpine will not become dependent on it because the costs are too high.i also think that because the costs are high, it will promote interest in *local* model use, which while flawed, is probably a skill we should be giving people the opportunity to tinker with in a practical way should they wish to.basically, the question is how to promote independent research while avoiding dependency on commercial AI, because it can be rugpulled at any time.in essence, i would say we are landing on a policy where the kernel was ~2 years ago. it is not ideal, but i can live with it.
(DIR) Post #B6tu6amvwlMLWv6jdw by BroBot90001@mastodon.online
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@ariadne thanks for the update. Been strongly considering switching to Alpine but the lack of Ai stance really discourages me. I’m staying hopeful and looking forward to hearing the final verdict. With the rising costs and bursting bubble I’m hopeful that people will see the writing on the wall and set up hard guardrail against this technological asbestos.
(DIR) Post #B6tvSc9jdrhA64pzsG by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@BroBot90001 there will not be an outright AI ban, sadly.
(DIR) Post #B6tyMT7UcodACGYA1g by BroBot90001@mastodon.online
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@ariadne Considering Alpine is supposed to be privacy focused distro and the overwhelming amount of evidence of leaks and errors present in absolutely every implementation of Ai code. It’s incredibly disappointing to hear about this level of cognitive dissonance going on in a privacy focused sector of Linux.I’ll be paying attention to the announcement but will have to keep looking for a privacy and security focused distro without compromise. :welp: #linux #privacy #ai #noai
(DIR) Post #B6uStXTgRNa5tTcAee by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@BroBot90001 yeah I feel you. sadly I think your best bet is to look for an indie distro, maybe Chimera.I'm in the wait and see camp. Maybe shit works out but it's disappointing.
(DIR) Post #B6vqOIHHUoxNpgPKSm by Brett_E_Carlock@mastodon.online
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@ariadneI am borderline useless, but I will take my APKBUILDs and donations and organizational push and follow you.Boreal Linux!
(DIR) Post #B8Q8idSKtnMREvmbM8 by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@BroBot90001 @witix we have agreed to postpone the conversation for now. thus, status quo.