Post B6inGaOrPOdUnt6g0u by zardoz@ioc.exchange
(DIR) More posts by zardoz@ioc.exchange
(DIR) Post #B6i8Iqtsw36ERAa1tA by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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Reason enough to hate systemd:"mount: (hint) your fstab has been modified, but systemd still uses the old version; use 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload"Why are you, an init system, having anything to do with my /etc/fstab file? It is absolutely none of your business whether this file has changed. (especially galling when nothing has changed since last running 'systemctl daemon-reload' five seconds ago)
(DIR) Post #B6i8fdIVfzmauQxdJ2 by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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systemd is ok i guess for toy operating systems but certainly not for anything serious where the admin needs to keep in control of what the system is doingi have it running because i use arch on my tv's media player, not many OS can run on that OrangePi SBC. Even so its quite annoying.
(DIR) Post #B6i9yySTKFDJzhPITg by aliceif@mkultra.x27.one
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@brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org everything-is-a-unit is kind of awesome though, you have so many things to use as triggers and the way you write what those triggers cause is always the same
(DIR) Post #B6i9yygIUqGygZsL1k by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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But why would I want some giant behemoth to do that? I can write a script to monitor stuff "if x changes do y" that is also the same every time.
(DIR) Post #B6iACPSyDnZBWT2xP6 by sofia@kittyy.mom
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@brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org have you tried alpine? it's my go-to for ultra low spec hardware and it does support arm at least
(DIR) Post #B6iACPeJXcdm5eM15M by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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I do love Alpine! I have postmarketOS which is basically the same running on my tablet computer (my main fedi scrolling device). If OpenBSD stopped existing I would run Alpine on my remote server.
(DIR) Post #B6iAHDkfCgmmddcIM4 by Misofist@girlcock.club
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@brettm I've recently started using Void Linux on my main PC. It's wild how freeing it is to not deal with systemd.Yes, a lot of things are less convenient. But it feels like I have so much control back. It feels like I'm using *Linux* again.
(DIR) Post #B6iAHDveXpZnBil4U4 by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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I have not tried Void but it does look great!
(DIR) Post #B6iAHGPVJodussjwI4 by Misofist@girlcock.club
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@brettm I think that systemd breaks the principle of least surprise in many many ways, and is quite opaque to troubleshoot if you don't already know exactly where to look.
(DIR) Post #B6iEs9aY2pWSG2kfFA by aliceif@mkultra.x27.one
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@brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org ok but i do not have to learn the intricacies of linux to unlock the knowledge of how to program units based on time and file watching and device presenceinstead it all is exactly the same in the executing part and decently similar in the controlling part - and declarative. This is great because I really hate writing shell scripts.plus, it is inherently decoupled unlike your script. I can just change or add a method of triggering without having to worry about the actual thing doing the work
(DIR) Post #B6iEs9lXNyJSo7tRNA by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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wat 😅the whole reason systemd sucks so bad and should never have been included in ANY linux distro is that it is inherently coupledjust as in my initial complaint, its not just being a init system but also sticking its nose in everywhere else.if i write a "relaunch this program if it crashes" script, and the script does not work, the rest of the system keeps working as it is decoupled . If systemd stops working the whole OS stops working. That is inherently coupledwhen it first came along, that was thing that everyone who opposed it said would happen, and that is exactly what has happenedif you don't want to "understand the intricacies of linus" then why are you trying to trigger anything at all? people who dont understand the OS should not be messing with the OS, right? just like if you drive a forklift, then you need to know what happens when you press your foot down on the pedals.
(DIR) Post #B6iExtk5sAgeqjxJY0 by tavi@freeradical.zone
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@brettm it really feels like it works best for distros, for getting a system that works out of the box. but if you're like,, building a system, it seems like it just makes everything so much more work than it would be with a simpler system
(DIR) Post #B6iExtwr6itZUJvVRI by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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Crazily enough systems worked out of the box even before systemd got invented 🙂
(DIR) Post #B6iExynT53MCWeZa08 by tavi@freeradical.zone
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@brettm which is why i'm fucking around with s6-rc for my pinephone... it's collecting dust though, i've been focused on other stuff
(DIR) Post #B6iKtsxlQctazyoss4 by aliceif@mkultra.x27.one
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@brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org gnu+systemd+linux for me is a platform to run applications under, and the more it takes care of for me, the betterwhy should mere mortals like me who just want to cyclically check for rss feeds or update an index when uploading a new page to my blog learn to write shell scripts or crontabs when systemd offers it in declarative and human language?plus, I can just run my index updating thing independently of systemd, all systemd provides is the activation mechanism - this is the decoupling I meant. your script would have to be expanded for that right?and like yes sure a lot of projects like desktop environments use systemd mechanisms and thus depend on it but that's a very different thing. the gnome ecosystem widely using the systemd mechanisms and thus having it be hard to port this big suite of software that also does things that applications in turn build on can not be used as an argument against the ease of making small services that aren't tightly integrated to any obscure Unix knowledge
(DIR) Post #B6iKttE4RzwJoYRuHw by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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In that case I would argue a simple tool that had nothing to do with systemd but was a "human language" frontend for the thing that already existed to do this (crontab, which you mentioned) would have been the better solution 🙂Yes Gnome et al rely on systemd nowadays. That battle is long-lost on linux. Red Hat and Pottering did do a lot of running around in the background and "gentle persuasion" to force that to happen. But gnome and kde still work fine on openbsd and freebsd etc even though they don't have any systemd 🤷
(DIR) Post #B6inGaOrPOdUnt6g0u by zardoz@ioc.exchange
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@brettm is there a non systemd way of (re)mounting everything based on fstab or is that a project i am going to have to write (not thst i fooster with fstab often enough to warrant it)
(DIR) Post #B6inGatLa31SKRN1X6 by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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I think if systemd is on your system it will obnoxiously decide it should be monitoring your fstab at all times for changes, afaik no way to avoid this except change to different distro or OS. Or move to a log cabin in the forest!