Post B6FvuTX92jaJmFvPJQ by ruari@velocipederider.com
(DIR) More posts by ruari@velocipederider.com
(DIR) Post #B6FvuRVeZJCfV3DBi4 by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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New #blog #post: Package Manager Tier Listhttps://rldane.space/package-manager-tier-list.html1521 wordsNote: this is a very off-the-cuff tier list, using speed as the main qualifier, but the article explains exceptions to that as it goes on.cc: my wonderful #chorus: @joel @dm @sotolf @thedoctor @pixx @orbitalmartian @adamsdesk @krafter @roguefoam @clayton @giantspacesquid @Twizzay @stfn(I will happily add/remove you from the chorus upon request! :)#rlDaneWriting #blost #DeadLikeMe #Linux #BSD #RunBSD #FreeBSD #OpenBSD #NetBSD #Debian #Arch #pacman #AUR #Fedora #homebrew #flatpak #snap #OpenSuSE #RPM
(DIR) Post #B6FvuRxetBbYtuJYMS by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane super weird to list rpm on its own but not dpkg.Most people will use the front ends like dnf and zypper and not rpm directly. Same with apt and dpkg.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuS8IFe6zQtI2wC by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@ruariThe reason is that rpm was all you got with redhat for a good number of years. If dpkg existed before apt, I wasn't aware of it (on its own, without apt)Yeah, I guess I'm kvetching. ;)Sitting in a server room, schlepping in RH cd after RH cd trying to find all the dependencies sucked. XD
(DIR) Post #B6FvuSIZdQKpwm6Fxg by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane Yes dpkg was released 32 years ago, apt arrived 28 years ago. So there was a 4 year period of only dpkg.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuSR57n8mNA53Ds by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@ruariOk, so a 7 year period of only rpm on RH, then, from what I can tell.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuSbiUFeCu93Xnc by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane Anyway all these package managers suck. I wrote this 15 years ago and still stand by it. 😁https://docs.slackware.com/slackware:package_and_dependency_management_shouldn_t_put_you_off_slackware
(DIR) Post #B6FvuSkDycS9KX2L3o by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@ruariSome questions:How big is a full slackware install now?How many packages are there in the full install?From the description in your article (and thanks for sharing, by the way! I've heard of Slackware going back a quarter century, but never really looked into it), the base install of Slackware sounds fairly similar to the base install of OpenBSD: Essential tools and a GUI, but not "everything" you'd ever need. But the BSD provides ports and packages beyond the base install. What do slackers use for that? Just yoinking git repos and compiling them? That honestly sounds incredibly tedious. :EI see mention of Slackbuilds. Is that canonical (like a BSD Ports system), semi-canonical (like maybe flatpak), or purely user-contributed (like the AUR)?How do you add software to your slack systems?
(DIR) Post #B6FvuSxLBqwdzDAoVM by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane About 16Gb space and about 1.5k of packages. That said, if it really matters because you are: "Installing on a device with limited disk space, where it is hard to add additional storage", "a setup where there is an ongoing cost to rent disk space (e.g. a Virtual Private Server)" or you just like the learning exercise of cutting back an install, you can make it *a lot* smaller fairly easily:https://gist.github.com/ruario/7c2742d6d1dd2f89575cThere is a full dev environment by default. Compiling on Slack is easy.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuT3MpRlWHtzctk by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane then again I do prefer simple and easy to use distros, like … Slackware 😉 https://web.archive.org/web/20140303095821/http://my.opera.com/ruario/blog/2011/03/13/slackware-a-simple-and-easy-to-use-linux-distribution
(DIR) Post #B6FvuTCwFrQClaTGoi by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane "There is a full dev environment by default. Compiling on Slack is easy."Just to expand on that I do not just mean the various compliers and tools. One of the things I fucking hate on Debian is tracking down all the -dev packages. This entire concept does not exist on Slackware. The various files that get split into -dev package variants get installed by default with their main package on Slackware.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuTX92jaJmFvPJQ by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane SlackBuilds is like the AUR but all packages uploaded and all updates to them are reviewed by a team. Thus while I can push an update to the build script for Vivaldi to the pending queue, it might take a couple of days before it is reviewed by humans.In addition there are tools to automate the various SlackBuilds build and install steps and to handle Slackbuild dependencies.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuTYCymR3pYQFyC by r1w1s1@snac.bsd.cafe
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Dependency management is useful.But package management and dependency resolution are not the same thing.Slackware intentionally keeps those concerns separated.I've been using this approach for minimal Slackware VPS/jump systems:https://git.sr.ht/~r1w1s1/slackware-tagfiles#slackwareCC: @rl_dane@polymaths.social @ruari
(DIR) Post #B6FvuTjYIbVeOjjJeS by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@r1w1s1 @ruariStarting to seem like Slackware is the most BSDish of Linux distros... I think I can see the appeal.Now... let's talk about that weird quasi-religious context... 😅
(DIR) Post #B6FvuTnS46d2apYQjI by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane Thus when you want to compile something, you usually just do it and do not go hunting down all the -dev crap.It is way easier to compile something out of the box on Slackware compared to most other distros.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuUNxsLpsQ4dads by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane What do I do personally? I have most of my extra stuff from Slackbuilds but I also do complie and repackage a some things myself from time to time. While making a Slackware package is easy, I sometimes do not even bother with that if I am honest. 😆 https://gist.github.com/ruario/a36052a1ae1de4edbc6ad39fe39e5385
(DIR) Post #B6FvuUr28H5VsEEnx2 by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane Oh and in recent years I started to maintain the Vivaldi flatpak on flathub. Given I need flatpak installed and configured to test this, I have on occasion installed things from flathub.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuVK6OCL9KNq1GC by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane But also you need to keep in mind that Slackware is like an LTS. Slackware 15.0 (which I run) was released 4 years ago and my main work machine was upgraded from 14.2, which was released almost 10 years ago.I generally already had all the software I needed installed a long time ago. I get security updates from the main repo, slackbuilds and flatpak but for most of the other stuff I largely just use whatever version I installed at the time.
(DIR) Post #B6FvuVkgnLbieqHFhY by ruari@velocipederider.com
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@rl_dane But to go back a couple of steps I strongly suspect that most Slackware users have the base install and install pretty much everything else they need from Slackbuilds, which can be fully automated much like the AUR, ports, Homebrew, etc.