Post B6Ekh2LVWPa92OuYJU by sjb@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by sjb@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #B6D6zM4Yj7Bi6gCh9c by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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Once computers can pass Turing Tests, the only ways to prevent Sybil attacks while still allowing interaction with strangers are Orwellian.
(DIR) Post #B6D9Ov6zmvzVvXf4ro by AVincentInSpace@furry.engineer
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@wolf480pl hold on, wh--*one internet search later*--WHAT THE FUCK???SCAN THIS QR CODE WITH A PLAY CERTIFIED DEVICE TO PROVE YOU'RE HUMAN??????What do we DO?
(DIR) Post #B6Dd0g2PB9OAqns1yK by light@noc.social
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@wolf480pl Maybe someone could make some sort of web of trust with real-world interactions as inputs
(DIR) Post #B6DdLsD978jigd0A8u by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@lightprobably, but what's the point of having an internet if the barrier to entry is "you have to know someone"?If I have to know someone I may as well meet them IRL.
(DIR) Post #B6DqbzDY8A8SSEChou by light@noc.social
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@wolf480pl Because you can meet people online that the person you met IRL knows, and people they know, and so on indefinitely.I mean, maybe it doesn't matter that much for just chatting, so long as we all keep a critical head against propaganda.
(DIR) Post #B6DrE7rKRwbQGAzr1s by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@lightI mostly care about finding information about obscure topics.Whether it's Half-Life 2 modding or optimizing gate count of adder circuits, there's only a handful of people interested in it at any given time, and usually none of my usual friends know where to find those.
(DIR) Post #B6DrvYytUDmspUFQCe by light@noc.social
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@wolf480pl I don't see why a human verification system would be necessary for that.
(DIR) Post #B6Dt2ZrOiTIXXMeM5o by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@lightAlso, a problem with a web of trust based on meeting someone IRL is that it reveals the social graph. Even if your legal name isn't attached to it, once your enemy (govt, corpo, etc) successfully deanonymizes a few people, that narrows down who everyone else could be.I guess it'd at least be more censorship-resistant than a google- or govt-run verification method, but still far from ideal...
(DIR) Post #B6DugMXlkKTzm30IBU by light@noc.social
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@wolf480pl People are working on making reputation systems using ZK crypto. For example https://github.com/ple1n/ talked about adding it to the planned Freenet reputation system in the official Matrix.https://github.com/ple1n/contract_smt_snark
(DIR) Post #B6E20TBbSUxbqWAe1o by cy@fedicy.us.to
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That assumes that computers that can pass Turing Tests will be cheaper than Koreans. I've never been overly worried about Sybil attacks, since they're so expensive to pull off. They find simpler ways to get at us, like making us move away from our friends, or making us agree to easily spoofed verification methods. ☑️
(DIR) Post #B6E20TO0iMswSzyYMq by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@cy what do you mean Sybil attacks are expensive to pull off?Twitter propaganda bots are a Sybil attack - you can't ban them because they always have more sockpuppet accounts.Web scrapers ran by LLM companies are a Sybil attack - you can't ban them because they always come back from a different IP address.Ok, maybe this is not a textbook Sybil attack - the reputation system here is binary - banned or not banned.But the cause is the same - cheap new identities.
(DIR) Post #B6Eg0YUfingaTQgZBQ by sjb@mstdn.io
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@wolf480pl I find it ironic the AI they unleashed has undermined their own business model. Essentially they're almost back to micropayments for accessing the site.
(DIR) Post #B6Egr4JaejToDwXgxM by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@sjbon the flip side, if website operators are sufficiently desperate in their desire to block bots, they'll welcome that new captcha with open arms, which will let Google track users across incognito mode, Tor, and different computers through whatever device ID they have in Play Services.So I think Google is quite happy about having an excuse to implement such a system.A side effect is that Google's ability to ban someone from their digital life has increased 10x.
(DIR) Post #B6EjCeHYKGwPlP0Vu4 by sjb@mstdn.io
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@wolf480pl Perhaps there's an opportunity here for some sort of crypto token that verifies you're human (or at least have money), without specifying who?Unfortunately I felt the unlimited free-to-view web was always heading for this problem, the AI bots are just the final phase of it.
(DIR) Post #B6EkOgV40P2w4Ud7DM by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@sjbWhen I was a kid, I couldn't use anything on the internet that required paying.Not because I didn't have money, but because I didn't have a bank account.I guess I was lucky to be born and grow up while there still was an open internet.
(DIR) Post #B6Ekh2LVWPa92OuYJU by sjb@mstdn.io
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@wolf480pl Right but children can still watch TV even though they personally don't pay for the service. There could be a way to give your child some "pocket money" to use the web, or it goes on a family account.I'd imagine the break-even rate that pays for webhosting for the stuff you download wouldn't be very high either.But the early web was shaped by the "first penny" problem, that getting someone to spend AT ALL is way harder than $0.01 vs. $0.02.