Post B66TQeq3tt4x0r7xY0 by PalePimp@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by PalePimp@poa.st
(DIR) Post #B64Cz41mfRYRRbVjRA by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
4 likes, 2 repeats
Wild that literally nobody makes these things anymore.20 years ago they were everywhere, $100.Now there's no factories left. All of the high voltage electronics are kind of bespoke and there aren't really supply chains for them anymore, but you COULD make them again.The real kicker is the tube, the color mask and phosphor coating is a disaster. And what's more, the machines that made them are now archaic. Even if you were able to get one, keeping it maintained and working properly is a skill unto itself. Generally production engineers will always build new lines using only current era (CNC) machines for which the spare parts and knowhow are widely available.This is an important little lesson that technological capabilities are not to be taken for granted. 20 years is long enough for a technology to really basically just vanish and once it's gone, you would need to go through a whole new R&D process if you ever wanted to bring it back.
(DIR) Post #B64Cz4LHUx9OQ4dIpM by charliebrownau@poa.st
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Shows the problem with International Liberal Demoracyand international 'trade'If your own tribe doesnt have the blue printsyour just renting equipment till it fails basically
(DIR) Post #B64Cz4YOiBdt4klmGu by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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It's not really that we don't know how, there are not secrets. But building the machines that make them, and getting them to the precision level that is required - this is not so easy.And it's not easy for *anyone*, because the old machines are not really workable anymore. Even if they haven't been scrapped, they're old and worn out and the people who knew how to make them work well are gone.
(DIR) Post #B64Cz4hGBEjPWEur5M by niobleoum@nekosat.work
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@cjd @charliebrownau CRT is actually relatively "uncomplicated" technology. Looked up the luminophores that were used there, and they are basic too - doped zinc sulphide and yttria. The method for synthesis of these is usually Pecchini method, which is basically mixing few (commercially available) precursors in crucible and firing it in owen (I call it "idiot-proof", since I tend to work with much more sophisticated chemistry). The electronics part would be more tricky in my opinion, but maybe it's just because that's not my area of expertise. :nahidanerd:
(DIR) Post #B64Cz4v5Lpn4D7NtdQ by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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Okay interesting. For the electronics, you would basically cheat and use a computer to drive it, because it can auto-tune everything.Think like fuel injection vs. carburetor.The high voltage side is something, but there's only one place that is high voltage, the rest is low, so most of it is not a big deal at all.
(DIR) Post #B64Cz564gya4lCWflQ by niobleoum@nekosat.work
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@cjd @charliebrownau A skilled electrical engineer shouldn't have much problem getting it done. The most helpful part is that all the knowledge (papers and patents) you need to recreate this technology are available on internet or your average university library, hence it's not that much of a lost technology. Recreating Apollo program would be very tough though, as this is neither something "small" nor relatively uncomplicated, and a lot of technical aspects and know-how was never really publicized and people who had it are gone now. I would say that modern semiconductor industry and low-level programming are at the highest risk of becoming "lost". The first one is pretty much exclusive to few companies in the world and the level of know-how and technical culture required appears unsurmountable. The second is like a language, that less and less people speak, while the accumulating debt makes whole software industry technically bankrupt - in few years either nothing will work at all and we will "live with it", or we will re-write all the things from scratch, undoing last 30 years.
(DIR) Post #B64Cz5KbowCtUHKHQ0 by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
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a CRT display is so well documented and understood that the average radio technician from down south of rio grande can repair them within a day from almost any failure short of the motherboard breaking in half, when that happens the repair may take a week of fine soldering all the broken traces, not to mention epoxing the board together, i can attest from first hand experience to that one as back in highschool i had to help a classmate epoxy and solder his CRT board together after helping in accidentally breaking it...the real engineering challenges are not on the circuitry of any given device, the circuitry of a microwave oven and the circuitry of an electrocardiogram machine are only "really different" in the quality of their building, otherwise the internal components will boil down to voltage transformer, resistors, capacitors, inductors, relays, diodes, LED display components, input switches and ICs, and the only things from that list that can vary wildly are the ICs, which outside of the display driver ICs and the ECG application specific ICs all other ones are either manufactured by texas instruments in guangzhou or are a modified clone from some chinese plant in chengdu, the real engineering challenge are the components that have input/output interaction with the external world, for a microwave oven that is the magnetron while for an ECG machine those components are the "electrode sensors" connected onto the patient, those are a challenge as the manufacturers have managed to build a pseudo-monopoly on the knowledge of how to manufacture and repair those components in a similar manner to the application specific ICs, if the magnetron on your microwave or the non generic made in china ICs on an ECG machine die you have no option but to buy replacements outright, even refurbishing is gatekept by the manufacturer.
(DIR) Post #B64MiKBEMKj09taOrQ by berkberkman@shitposter.world
1 likes, 1 repeats
@cjd Flat-panel LCDs were meant to be a replacement for those hefty CRTs, then large rear-projection TVs further pushed them out (although a few still used small CRTs) because they were mostly huge at the time. Nowadays, those rear-projection TVs are just dated, but the fresnel lens in them could be useful for making solar death rays.
(DIR) Post #B64PoxvFoKrR17yICW by sunbeam_rider@shitposter.world
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@EdBoatConnoisseur @niobleoum @cjd @charliebrownau one thing is repairing/servicing them and another one is manufacturing them. The supply chains, economies of scale and know-how that made CRT manufacturing make sense simply aren't there anymore.But can confirm these TVs are still being repaired by normal TV technicians instead of redditor amateurs, here and perhaps in the whole third world, them being cheap as fuck and the like. Just like how we still service rod brake roadster bicycles and Volkswagen beetles.
(DIR) Post #B64PoyL8G7YqJO4xXM by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
1 likes, 2 repeats
the volkswagen beetles are interesting, at least from what I've seen from mexico is that there are 2 camps, the collection models that everyone tries their hardest to maintain and fix in as original from factory state as possible and go for high prices (usually models from the 50s, 60s and mid 70s) and the cheap beater/mod blank canvass beetles which the mexicans go crazy modding (usually models from the late 70s onwards) into baja bugs and 4x4 pickup trucks to downright memes on wheels.
(DIR) Post #B64QOnbZeFONRXqx16 by sunbeam_rider@shitposter.world
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@EdBoatConnoisseur @niobleoum @cjd @charliebrownau oh yeah I regularly see a jupiterian man riding his buggy-beetle in the neighborhood. If a family member or friend sold his for cheap I would buy it in a heartbeat to be honest
(DIR) Post #B64QXEHSLx3cUbSllo by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
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I could smuggle so much meth in this bitch.
(DIR) Post #B64RQfllqqVlfv50hE by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
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i've talked with a friend a couple times about building a baja bug together, man the cheapest component for a good baja bug is the vw beetle itself...
(DIR) Post #B64SIZXTEUpXzM5mOO by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
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look at this mf, the engine comes from a toyota 22r
(DIR) Post #B64SdGKjphywVP0EAi by professionalbigot69@poa.st
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@EdBoatConnoisseur @Humpleupagus @niobleoum @cjd @charliebrownau @sunbeam_rider was mad max popular in mexico at one point or something?
(DIR) Post #B64SdGXr2wTRA58hcG by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
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i think something like a quarter or more of mexico is desert...
(DIR) Post #B64VQjwWjZdsR4Olk0 by Whitewall_Blasphemy@poa.st
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Cars and Cameras on YT figured out [the hard way] you had to make a big ass bracket like that to hang bigboy engines from the back.
(DIR) Post #B64Vfta1BcAWfT64A4 by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
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oh don't worry, i can see right out a couple of reasons why those huge engine brackets are a necessity on baja bugs
(DIR) Post #B66SW5scgmKUNELz96 by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
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@cjd Fosdem had a good presentation that about batteries.Aside manufacturing lines that don't exist, the other main issue is lack of proper documentation/patent-fuckery.https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/3EEZZB-open-source-batteries/
(DIR) Post #B66SdA33acvZKQbVDc by icedquinn@blob.cat
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@cjd have posted about that kind of stuff before. it's not strictly needed to keep CRTs around, but it is somewhat necessary to keep *some* path from sticks back to whatever useful thing there is around.frequently annoying about how human civilization making one factory in taiwan the basis of everything is an existential risk from hell
(DIR) Post #B66TMwv4jaQXvnhiQi by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
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@icedquinn @cjd
(DIR) Post #B66TQdLXRt4KNtq4Ke by PalePimp@poa.st
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>>Wild that literally nobody makes these things anymore.Because they don't scale. Try to make one 50" good luck.Flat screens are such an improvement over CRTs that it makes my head hurt that anybody misses the old CRTs.And I had not one but three +20" multi-sync CRTs back in the day, the moment LCD panels crossed the 1024x768 resolution threshold at 60hz it was game over for CRTs and good riddance.
(DIR) Post #B66TQdWsli8ux5980u by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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Oh I don't really miss them. And I don't really have an opinion about screen size because I don't watch TV at all.It's more thinking about how a technology can be kind of "lost" and it's hard to bootstrap again.
(DIR) Post #B66TQdjzywdPblHbSS by PalePimp@poa.st
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>>Oh I don't really miss them. And I don't really have an opinion about screen size because I don't watch TV at all.I don't watch TV either but my twin 27" 120hz LCD panels I CAD on say hello. And the 52" TV I game on 4k send its regards. >>It's more thinking about how a technology can be kind of "lost" and it's hard to bootstrap again.It is not lost, it is 1000% impractical nowadays, two very different things, is like using cassette tapes in the age of digital computers with high definition audio and sophisticated audio file formats, or using floppies to exchange files in the age of the USB drive.There are technologies like the CRTs that lose their "raison d'etre" once something else smaller and better is available, can you imagine a nintendo switch with a CRT? or a CRT in a combat jet? or a mobile phone with a CRT like the Pipboy?Technologies that truly matter which are not irrelevant like the internal combustion engine, or how to manufacture tires not only aren't lost, they are being perfected all the time.
(DIR) Post #B66TQe4ClonWcQjjxA by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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> Technologies that truly matter which are not irrelevant like the internal combustion engine, or how to manufacture tires not only aren't lost, they are being perfected all the time.I was actually thinking that car-sized internal combustion engines, automatic transmissions, etc. are at risk of ending up the way of the CRT, because battery price and density keeps marching on every year so eventually it's really going to make no sense to have a car with an engine...
(DIR) Post #B66TQeNLce6tZnh1n6 by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
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if that would be the case, steam turbines would have been retired by now - but look, every power-plant from coal to gas to nuke is using steam. Replacing mature technologies is a lot harder than just coming up with the replacement, they tend to linger a few centuries side by side. Look at the Amish, they are quite content and successful with horses and the coach, the wagon.
(DIR) Post #B66TQecEjI1IJyeuzw by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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Counterpoint: CRT televisions.Steam turbines in powerplants are still "state of the art". There is supercritical CO2 on the horizon, but it's still on the horizon.Already certain engine parts are becoming hard to find, like flat-tappet lifters. Everyone has moved to roller lifters since ages ago, so flat-tappet nobody really makes them anymore - and of course there's China junk that is BAD BAD BAD because it's not hardened correctly and doesn't have the right crown and it will wipe your engine out on first start.There's stuff like Chevy small block that you'll "always" be able to get rebuild kits for, but even already a lot of post-2000 cars are just not repairable enough that anyone is going to keep rebuild parts on the shelf after they age out.What I can realistically see happening is engines become a classic / antique thing, and you need quite a bit of money to get one, and the replacement parts are also fairly expensive.
(DIR) Post #B66TQeq3tt4x0r7xY0 by PalePimp@poa.st
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The CRT is just an electron gun that is fired at the back of a glass coated in a phosphorous substance that glows when hit by the beam.Making a low refresh monochrome one like the ones we had in the 70s is trivial making small CRT tubes is fairly doable.The technology is not lost, what is lost is the industry that made them, because it makes no sense to manufacture them anymore.
(DIR) Post #B66TQf13F1rxYwGjg0 by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
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It's not the *technology* that's lost per se, more the "capability". I mean, we could develop it again if we wanted to, but it would be a new project, and not a simple project like "PC board with some chips on it".
(DIR) Post #B66TQf9ui4xU0QPoUS by PalePimp@poa.st
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>>It's not the *technology* that's lost per se, more the "capability".That applies to almost any industry in the west we're almost de-industrialised at this point.
(DIR) Post #B66TaXVM1TkTA99ZsO by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
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@PalePimp @FourOh-LLC @cjd Not only it's de-industrialised but it can't maintain it's structures that aren't dependant on that.In both cases it's failing because of lack of moral/high-trust and brain drain.
(DIR) Post #B66WMNYEX6TK6IRJVg by mrsaturday@shitposter.world
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@cjd They're an absolute nightmare to dispose of and all around inferior to the current tech. Sure, you don't get "half-pixels" anymore, but that was always a work-around to begin with. I'm not particularly upset about CRTs going the way of the daguerreotype.
(DIR) Post #B66Xuql8XnbCUJTZUe by sendpaws@mitra.pawslut.party
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@mrsaturday @cjd i think a better example of "lost technology" is 35mm color film.Kodak is just making the same stuff they made while they were at the peak of film technology, when they could afford to throw R&D at it because they assumed it would last forever. Lucky still had made film back when film was popular, so they were eventually able to restart C-41 with a not-half-bad film. Orwo/Wolfen is literally using old Agfa formulations from the 80s/early 90s tweaked some, and is having issues with anti-halation on their NC200 film. Harman has never made color film ever (they only sold BW film as Ilford) and they not only had to get engineers out of retirement, but the end result looks like dogshit and they're having to start making experimental films now to fund that venture.Cameras too, Pentax also had to get engineers out of retirement to make the Pentax 17 who were explaining to the new ones "no you don't do this or that".The new 35mm cameras are nowhere near the technological peak of the late 90s-mid 00s cameras as well, when they were cramming high tech around the film as a media. Even the lower end 35mm "plastic" SLRs are more feature packed than some new 35mm camera.