Post B5dYwe6D3BxkAkumYa by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) More posts by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
(DIR) Post #B5dMAyqVPe8pAR4g9Q by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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[This is fine.] :BlobFoxThisIsFine: 🔥#OpenBSD #LLM #LLMs #slop #NOAI #AInt #AI #BSD
(DIR) Post #B5dMAz4gYvU3sPi0Fk by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane so… OpenBSD refuses to address the issue, instead talking around it or not responding.Heh, sounds familiar.I guess it’s out as slop-accepting, then, for now.
(DIR) Post #B5dMQ7dB24Pul13nF2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@rl_dane I love how the 2010 results look like some kind of M$ Windows spam with encoding issues :D
(DIR) Post #B5dMeOrzjd7aHFnchs by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@mirabilos @rl_dane So I guess we might be able to say "they said they were open but they were only open for business" to OpenBSD :]
(DIR) Post #B5dQe0Bxt1OJYaCpaS by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@lanodan @mirabilosFor want of a definite statement from one of the team leaders, I'm withholding any comment or judgement.Except that the lack of such a statement is seriously not good.
(DIR) Post #B5dRDcQ9kChKFzpLFo by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane @lanodan yes, that’s why the “for now”
(DIR) Post #B5dRj1cu52lfPLlVw0 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@rl_dane @mirabilos Yeah, hence why I put might here.But it would really suck, like OpenBSD going against slop even just on their own software would be great, specially as they tend to have a lot of alternative implementations of various (de-facto) standard tools which we're going to need pretty badly as long as the slop spreads.(Meanwhile most systems just uncritically import/depend-on third-party code…)
(DIR) Post #B5dS4VXI4ZjGFfNq76 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @rl_dane yeah, it’d be really a loss to lose them as well.
(DIR) Post #B5dTvD5XUVMAL766Fc by jns@mastodon.linkerror.com
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@rl_dane aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrhjjjjjjjkkkkkkklllllllllllllllllllllll :(Is this hel? Hearing same old bad-faith arguments over and over again in perpetuity?It's not "just a tool" if the models can inherently only be created by entities with large capital wealth.Conveniently, the people arguing it doesn't use that much power, always drop the energy cost of the model training itself. And let's not even talk about the huge, gigantic, slow, shitty python stacks that need to drive and power all of the hard-coded edge cases (Yes, that's most definitively a thing, LANGUAGE models are not intelligent. They classify tokens and trigger different tools (some other models, some literally just shitty hard-coded scripts) - A single query to chatgpt can easily fork off a dozen queries. They loop output back as input, and have babysitter models on top to monitor output, etc... So comparing that with a simple query to a local model is very much a false comparison. And even that model is still unethical when it's using a corporate trained model, which, all of them do. Let's not pretend that there isn't a huge boom in datacenter buildout, and that it's not ai related.. what the heck... exactly right at the time when we're in a climate EMERGENCY....How much mental gymnastics do these people have to do to sus their conscience?
(DIR) Post #B5dTvDqgfD4QhL9kjw by feld@friedcheese.us
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@jns @rl_dane > It's not "just a tool" if the models can inherently only be created by entities with large capital wealth.These days a web browser implementing ALLLLLL the features of HTML/JS/CSS and other RFCs (WebUSB, etc etc) is a tool that can only be created by entities with large capital wealth
(DIR) Post #B5dTvEBxO85HlJ6jtQ by jns@mastodon.linkerror.com
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@feld @rl_dane I avoid the web as much as I can too :PBut AI has several other problems as well, on TOP of that.
(DIR) Post #B5dTvERCTSHGWaEueW by feld@friedcheese.us
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@jns @rl_dane we're not going to run out of energy and we are not going to run out of water. The claims (lies to pump stocks) of all these datacenters they want to build will soon be forgotten and the deals will be cancelled as the reality of infrastructure, timelines, and raw materials will spoil their grand delusions.Remember, Bitcoin was supposed to destroy the grid too. It's all fear mongering.When you compare to other common human activities, it's not so bad, but people don't measure them so it doesn't become part of the conversation. E.g., it does take ~15,000 liters of water to get a pound of raw beef. It was only 500ml of water for a short convo with OpenAI GPT-3.I think we should be putting all of our focus on this topic around the copyright situation. Everything else is a distraction. And if you dig deep enough you'll start to question some of our copyright laws too.We need reformation but I don't yet know what that should look like
(DIR) Post #B5dTvEwObTEO5KppHE by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@feld @jnsWhen the entire thrust of our country (indeed the whole world, but especially the U.S.) is so hell-bent on injustice and garbage, I don't even know how to have this conversation.One thing that annoys me is that we just got to the point where the average digital activities of maybe a thousand people could be managed by a server that cost only a few hundred dollars, and used up only 100W of power, at most. Now, we're in killowatt-minute-per-query territory, and even a thousand-old improvement on that stinky statistic is abominable.Especially when it's not needed or warranted (getting a stupid, hallucinating AI summary when previous algorithmic summaries are plenty sufficient).Especially when it's enriching sociopath centibillionaires.My reaction to seeing an AI video playing on someone's tv reminds me of a scene from "Kung Fu: The Legend Continues" from the 90s. Caine walks into a large room full of people watching a porno on TV and instantly grabs the VCR and yanks it out of the wall. When his son reacts in laughter, he says something like, "I could not allow that desecration of the human spirit to continue."I haven't kung-fu-hulked-out, yet, but I definitely ask to change it.
(DIR) Post #B5dW5WnlFhUIHcpUky by xarvos@outerheaven.club
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@lanodan @rl_dane @mirabilos also aren’t they maintainers of critical tools themselves, like openssh/openssl?
(DIR) Post #B5dW5X91ycV9LamTuS by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@xarvos @rl_dane @mirabilos Yeah, I'd also count OpenSMTPd in there as it's what I use for my emails and well… reminds me that it's maintainer's blog using very obvious slop header-images is horribly sad.(And dang it I got other things on my plate than write my own email server)
(DIR) Post #B5dWHKZuWZLlqdylnM by feld@friedcheese.us
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@rl_dane @jns what if I told you that we can cut the energy usage by like 1000% just by writing better inference engines and having a cycle or two of hardwarethough it won't matter, it will just be faster so people will use it more and it will get into more placesat the end of the day, it's going to be energy markets that are the governor of this technology. We should have predicted that "compute" would become a commodity sold at such massive quantities to individuals who are not developers, engineers, academics, governments, or specialized enthusiasts I guess.this is going to be a very strange journey, but I bet as a side effect it will push more money into nuclear, solar, and batteries than ever before
(DIR) Post #B5dWJ029sY98i4zHcm by mischievoustomato@tsundere.love
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@feld @jns @rl_dane hell yeah nuclear
(DIR) Post #B5dY83H3gtgrTyreRU by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @xarvos @rl_dane ugh, yes, poolp.org is nauseating (thankfully I’m with sendmail).Hm, djm ate the “quantum” craze and prefers github over CVS, but otherwise doesn’t seem to have gone under yet.Who doing LibreSSL? They seem to be still sane enough, too.
(DIR) Post #B5dYwe6D3BxkAkumYa by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@mirabilos @xarvos @rl_dane Yeah, at least it's hybrid algorithms that got implemented but I quite hate the PQ🧻 client-side nag in recent versions.Otherwise I'd probably have thrown away OpenSSH on sight, I've already replaced it with tinyssh on server-side ages ago anyway. (The few footguns in sshd_config lost my trust for an sshd)
(DIR) Post #B5dZnFO1f6qKsLKYZE by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @xarvos @rl_dane eurgh, tinyssh uses unlicenced DJB crap
(DIR) Post #B5dbp9Od6XVymheGFk by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@mirabilos @xarvos @rl_dane Dang it I wanted to refresh my mind on how much djb there is and I found shit.https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium/blob/master/CLAUDE.md
(DIR) Post #B5dcmfX3GemjXNy5gG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@mirabilos @rl_dane @xarvos Ah and of course package recipes remembers stuff better than I do, libsodium as a dependency got tossed out with release 20241111 if not earlier.Wasn't too sure it was a good idea back then but now I guess it wasn't so bad an idea.
(DIR) Post #B5dgCR3xzB8U3PLGFM by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @xarvos @rl_dane ok, so Jedi/SectorOne is also gone over to the fashtech being acceptable fraction
(DIR) Post #B5dgGIZRVBK6sEuGzQ by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@mirabilos @lanodan @xarvosWhat cursed thing is that??? (poolp)I just see tons of ai images, and heavy JS
(DIR) Post #B5dgGInceSfLaDXb5k by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane @lanodan @xarvos site of the OpenSMTPD maintainer
(DIR) Post #B5dgJsGfEmD8SHpPXc by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@mirabilos @lanodan @xarvosIs that... a hashing algorithm?
(DIR) Post #B5dgJsSMXHZJ2ZIkm8 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane @lanodan @xarvos no
(DIR) Post #B5dgY6x1RUA834Qh16 by pkw@snac.d34d.net
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They are in the middle of a release and that is not theauthoritive answer from the main guy.He is recently on record of indicating LLM is bad.It's in one of these lists, i'll post it if i can find it.Don't get me wrong that mansplaining fromthat kyrill person is not good, but that is the misclist, they made that list as sort of a heat sinkto keep drama away from the developers.So it's not over yet is all im saying, while agreeingthat the threads you show are frustrating.* edit:Here this is closer to being authoritative,https://marc.info/?t=177377722400001&r=1&w=2here is the closest we have to authoritative:List: openbsd-techSubject: Re: [patch] ext4fs rwFrom: "Theo de Raadt" <deraadt () openbsd ! org>Date: 2026-03-21 17:59:02Message-ID: 82847.1774115942 () cvs ! openbsd ! org[Download RAW message or body]Renaud Allard <renaud@allard.it> wrote:> Maybe it should be made clear on the website that OpenBSD will only> allow new code made by a human. Because I feel there might be more> requests like this and there is no point in repeating the discussion.Yes.
(DIR) Post #B5dgY7HEEMKF3jspVo by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@pkwThat's helpful. Some more helpful posts from theo (direct links):https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411411600672&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411552501319&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411620801633&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411863202734&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411871802778&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177411923203008&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177425035627562&w=2https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177428102121988&w=2The gist of his argument is that LLM code cannot have copyright, and therefore cannot be included into OpenBSD. He makes no direct ethical argument, from what I've seen.#OpenBSD #LLM #AInt #Slopcc: @mirabilos @sherwoodinc @jns
(DIR) Post #B5dgY7ZJ98mrxoLGgy by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rl_dane @pkw @sherwoodinc @jns but these are old, he does not address the tmux ensloppification anywhere yet
(DIR) Post #B5dgc00vAzTlgx6i3M by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@pkw if they release without the tmux slop patch reverted, the whole release is tainted
(DIR) Post #B5dgtfI8xYswdSaQQC by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@mirabilos @xarvos @rl_dane Some sort of irony for someone using such a handle to go to the dark side
(DIR) Post #B5dhEV663avt6Et31E by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@mirabilos @lanodan @xarvosGreat. XD* toasts existential-horror marshmallows while the digital Library at Alexandria burns
(DIR) Post #B5dhVPSKHjPwWfLbAO by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@lanodan @xarvos @mirabilosI confess I don't know who they are, either, sorry. XD
(DIR) Post #B5dhVPfnTeC1CReMAC by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@rl_dane @xarvos @mirabilos I didn't know them either, so at least not much of a disappointment beyond the original "oh shit, that's a bad library to go slop"
(DIR) Post #B5diB4k1gvLiRYUhrk by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @xarvos @rl_dane security researcher who contributed patches in the past
(DIR) Post #B5diEvOKOd0CbTBFj6 by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@mirabilos @lanodan @xarvosOk, then I'm not familiar with it, nor was I able to find anything by searching. XD
(DIR) Post #B5diEvXtp2et59ete4 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lanodan @xarvos @rl_dane Daniel Bernstein
(DIR) Post #B5diMtx9cyO0SXH2au by rl_dane@polymaths.social
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@mirabilos @pkw @sherwoodinc @jnsAh. Quite. :/And tmux is in base.Is the sloppified version in current?
(DIR) Post #B5diMuRzmJ3Y0BhffM by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@sherwoodinc @jns @rl_dane @pkw yes
(DIR) Post #B5diQjy6gyZ0ePYA7c by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@jns @rl_dane @pkw @sherwoodinc has been in since February or so
(DIR) Post #B5jbrElXHHRuxu7JgX by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@jns @rl_dane @pkw @sherwoodinc almost end of May, still no response…