Post B5X8ILI5nSfSV1pobg by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
(DIR) More posts by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
(DIR) Post #B5WP8xwOkJPBXNqGzA by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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The gardenhouse live iso thingy is basically already complete but I got nerdsniped into trying to make the image as small as possible so its gonna take a while :ipv5:edit: for context, with the default gardenhouse erofs options its 4gb, i got it down to 3.2gb with custom options, rn i'm trying some extra stuffthe issue is that the more compression options I give the longer it takes to produce the image
(DIR) Post #B5WP8yMz9SfkrqHVQW by tusharhero@mathstodon.xyz
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@rose Chairman Mao would be proud.
(DIR) Post #B5WP8ygpxeYHrPZMMy by manfromhuh@dsmc.space
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@tusharhero @rose Because it's going to kill thousands of sparrows?
(DIR) Post #B5WPdeuPYZXrUIY3ai by reia@linfan.moe
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@rose floppyhouse when
(DIR) Post #B5WPdfFgHUYiYGV2kC by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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i want to have it on a dvd or even a cd
(DIR) Post #B5WPdfdQrBYdjvc0lU by reia@linfan.moe
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@rose cd should be simple enough tbqh
(DIR) Post #B5WPdfqC5jlYNVaCem by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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700mb, I'd probably have to make a minimal edition for that, but yes, definitely doable
(DIR) Post #B5WPmp0lMi7bQTt9Lk by moses_izumi@fe.disroot.org
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@rose Speaking of size, what are the suggested system requirements (CPU, RAM)?"whoever conquers the lowspec controls the universe."
(DIR) Post #B5WQYBCIhBs1qTrox6 by navi@social.vlhl.dev
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@rose @reia the gentoo install cd was under 700MiB until about a year ago i think -- now it's 1.05GiB as iirc they decided that having more QoL tools built-in was more important than keeping it cd burnable
(DIR) Post #B5WQYBRXmW40bkzziC by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@navi @reia @rose Reminds me of wondering a bit why Alpine got standard and extended all these years ago, at least now it's CD-burnable vs. not because things got a lot bigger in the last 10 years.https://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.3/releases/x86_64/https://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.23/releases/x86_64/
(DIR) Post #B5WbwNX5aGBaY4Kf68 by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose dwarfs time?
(DIR) Post #B5WbwNqER5UxVRHww4 by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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need to be able to mount it as a block device
(DIR) Post #B5WbwOBVA0VoZPEw5Y by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose should work? if not you can just have a file on the iso/udf fs, that’s how it’s often done with squashfs too
(DIR) Post #B5WbwOQ2Hy8dIU2Xk8 by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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wait i thought dwarfs only supports fuse mount?
(DIR) Post #B5WbwOd9VCd7xAB1Bg by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose yes and? if you have fuse in your initramfs there’s not really a problem with that
(DIR) Post #B5WbwOqch7PCcwTmBU by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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last time i tried, using a fuse mount for root causes issues
(DIR) Post #B5WbwP0u4td38pHzCy by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose huh really? i figured it’d be fine since overlayfs works with it too
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPBtQ2Q3guQlKy by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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i mean yeah but overlayfs is a kernel thing, practically no one uses fuse-overlayfs anymore
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPKkt5Va8OZq9Q by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose yes and i’m referring to the kernel thingas in you can have kernel overlayfs on top of dwarfs
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPV2GrjQeHO3Au by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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i mean yeah but that doesn't really helpit still remains a userspace driver for the underlying filesystem, that's gonna cause performance issues, some programs won't work properly, and if the fuse driver crashes its not gonna end well
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPcTpBgd1MrzmK by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose performance is not an issue with dwarfs. it can outperform in-kernel squashfs and is several orders of magnitude faster than erofs. i don’t know of any programs that aren’t working properly with it (mostly use it for games tbh)if the fuse driver crashes then yeah you’re gonna have a bad time. but the most likely scenario for that is it getting OOM killed because it was explicitly mounted with a gigantic in-memory cache setting
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPot53bxdqfu7M by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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@mia@shrimptest.0x0.st mh I'll look into itit'd be awesome if I could use it
(DIR) Post #B5WbwPyoU9YE8dJpaa by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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omg it works2.9gb iso, thats crazyare there any compression arguments I should add? rn I'm just using the defaultCC: @mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
(DIR) Post #B5WiksX9CFqKtsp5Sy by mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
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CC: @reia@linfan.moeBase it off a Alpine Linux rootfs to have a minimal size due to musl libc?
(DIR) Post #B5WiksjCTRU5VGSiFk by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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the whole point is that its a gentoo systemCC: @reia@linfan.moe
(DIR) Post #B5Wikst7sXQM036diy by navi@social.vlhl.dev
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@rose @mateusz6768 @reia i mean one could make an image based on a gentoo musl profile as well, and that'd save quite a bit of space (storage and ram), though it'd be still using gnu coreutils
(DIR) Post #B5Wikt2LKGnSSdQ05g by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@navi @mateusz6768 @reia @rose Although biggest space saving would probably be to toss out some @system stuff like gcc from the image given it's a live system anyway.
(DIR) Post #B5WixUWTmNxYCGWazg by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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i already throw out bdeps, i considered also taking out gcc, but since I want to keep it a functional system im inclined to keep thatCC: @mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com @reia@linfan.moe @navi@social.vlhl.dev
(DIR) Post #B5X88uICo2A49yO944 by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose you can try -l 9 -B 4 --categorize=binary-l 9 will among other things make it use lzma instead of zstd. it’ll be slower of course.-B 4 gives the dedup scanner 4 blocks of lookback. this can make the fs a bit slower because the more blocks a file spans, the more data will need to be decompressed to access it. for that reason, and especially for rotating media, it’s probably a good idea to also store files in the order they are accessed: set -o analysis_file in the dwarfs mount options to make it save a log to the given path, boot the system once, then rebuild the image with these options for example:-l 9 -B 4 --categorize=binary,hotness --hotness-list=analysis.log --order hotness::explicit:file=analysis.logthis might sacrifice some compression but should keep files clustered accordingly
(DIR) Post #B5X88uregEW9vuySJs by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose dwarfs also has a categorizer for PCM audio and can use flac for that so if you’re ever using it for something like that, it might help make the image smaller and fasteryou can also append incompressible to the list of categorizers and use these options: -C incompressible::none --incompressible-fragments --incompressible-zstd-level=1that will make it switch off compression for blocks that don’t get good compression ratios. you can also use lz4hc:level=9 instead of none here: it’s much faster than zstd or lzma but might still be able to save a small amount of space
(DIR) Post #B5X88vCvP9X0zsvRTM by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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oh yeah lz4hc is what i use for erofsdwarfs looks like magic to me lmaowhere is all that data going 😟😟
(DIR) Post #B5X89Au13DuffsCZDk by mia@shrimptest.0x0.st
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@rose same place all your lost screws go. the carpet dimension
(DIR) Post #B5X8IJyufHjQRFqz4a by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@navi @reia @rose in that case they decided they don't want me to use itlots of my stuff can't read dvd's
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKBftpwL4ppAxs by navi@social.vlhl.dev
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@wyatt @reia @rose you can install gentoo from any linux distro, you don't have to use gentoo's minimal cd -- 90% of the installation is done chrooted in after fetching stage3
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKLbIvsbZcT6R6 by lispi314@udongein.xyz
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@navi @reia @rose @wyatt Is there some manner of gentoobootstrap program?
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKTkocOxyuHc92 by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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the gentoo bootstrap process is downloading a stage3 archive and extracting it onto the root disk, after that everything is done from a chrootthats how the handbook does it, and thats why gentoo can be installed from any system that can chrootCC: @reia@linfan.moe @navi@social.vlhl.dev @wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKcGIzCuPIGPPE by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@rose @lispi314 @reia @navi I have some systems without NIC's
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKk3pzRgnTudYu by lispi314@udongein.xyz
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@wyatt @reia @rose @navi Do they have eSATA?Although at this point those beg an additional question: Gentoo seems very network-dependent, what happens with systems that are entirely air-gapped?(I'm not sure what Guix & Nix do either.)
(DIR) Post #B5X8IKuLDlfXJMiqaO by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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emerge has a buildpkg flag, it lets you build binary packagesjust transfer those and then install them on the air-gapped systemits basically the same as any other air gapped distroCC: @reia@linfan.moe @navi@social.vlhl.dev @wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
(DIR) Post #B5X8IL3ueBKDn3CUVM by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@rose @lispi314 @reia @navi gross
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILB0Dozq92W9YW by rose@snac.pinkro.se
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@navi@social.vlhl.dev @wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe @lispi314@udongein.xyz @reia@linfan.moe huh why?if its about binary packages, i suppose one could also just fetch the sources of the package and then compile them on the target system
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILI5nSfSV1pobg by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@rose @navi @lispi314 @reia "fetch them"i don't have an NIC
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILPtKSuEtDU2lM by navi@social.vlhl.dev
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@wyatt @reia @rose @lispi314 from another machine, which is kinda obvious with the context of "air-gapped systems"
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILXgrT91HP8Gv2 by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@navi @reia @rose @lispi314 reminder that i have never used gentoo up until this point and so everything you are talking about is stuff i'd have to learn to do because i'm not familiar with the toolingbeing able to install via CD is a genuinely Good Thing that can not be understated
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILfUOTNnfamV4i by navi@social.vlhl.dev
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@wyatt @reia @rose @lispi314 gentoo doesn't have a "installer", the live cd is a linux environment for people to do the install on, but it doesn't contain any installation files -- you still fetch the stage3 from the webso if you want to install gentoo with just cds, on one cd, put whatever linux distro you want, on another cd (or the first one if there's still space, i guess), but the stage3 tarball, it's about 250 megsboot the first one, swap out, extract the tarball, continue the installand good luck actually using that machine for anything without first copying a dozen packages via cds as well
(DIR) Post #B5X8ILqpiISOEm5Yky by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@navi @reia @rose @lispi314 oh ok so i can boot anything reasonably recent on it with a linux kernel and do it from there. Alright, that isn't as bad then. Disregard most of what i said.was especially thinking of installing gentoo on my sparcstation (ultra 1), which has a pretty flaky ethernet port (and 100mbit/second)
(DIR) Post #B5X8IM1p3RFOmrEKsy by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@navi @lispi314 @reia @rose i guess a remaining problem would be finding something to boot sparc linux from
(DIR) Post #B5X8IMB2VAcVFRXhFg by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@wyatt @lispi314 @reia @navi @rose .oO(MirBSD)
(DIR) Post #B5X8QobOhZ3Vivu95M by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rose @navi @reia @wyatt @lispi314 the i386 installer/rescue image (4.5 MiB) contains everything needed to netboot i386 and sparc systems: rarpd, dhcpd, tftpd and even ssh and sshd(unsure if NFS as well, probably not, but I don’t count that as part of netbooting)then just boot net-tpe or somesuch
(DIR) Post #B5X8W1ogzwby9hbp9U by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@mirabilos @lispi314 @reia @navi @rose this is an option yeahand i currently run netbsd and solaris on it
(DIR) Post #B5X8W1yGQMGedO5T4S by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@navi @rose @reia @lispi314 @wyatt hm in that case, why not start from there? Can either bootblock also load Linux/sparc64?
(DIR) Post #B5X8aTHap084UyFHsW by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@mirabilos @rose @navi @reia @lispi314 i'd probably do sshfs if at all possible, never learned how to make NFS actually work
(DIR) Post #B5X8aTSw8pCf49YLYm by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@navi @lispi314 @wyatt @reia @rose it’s a secret (nobody knows) 😼
(DIR) Post #B5X8rhIZxpVMtIv9gu by wyatt@soc.megatokyo.moe
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@mirabilos @navi @rose @reia @lispi314 not sure. probably not but i'm ok with wiping stuff. and i have two HDD's, am currently just selecting boot by telling open firmware which drive to use
(DIR) Post #B5X8rhSrLbjDPBjMiO by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lispi314 @reia @rose @navi @wyatt if you’ve got netbootable kernels (elf2aout -b), OFW can boot them directly, even locally
(DIR) Post #B5X8w4juklOUkYnJQG by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@rose @wyatt @navi @lispi314 @reia Yeah one can do that.About 10 years ago I would use the -f option of emerge and then grep the logfile for urls because downloading big tarballs from a hotspot typically going at something like 50~200 kbps was just way too slow.I guess a smarter one would be setting FETCHCOMMAND / RESUMECOMMAND in make.conf to log to a file or a serial device.
(DIR) Post #B5X90pbcRp2hGGBLwu by lispi314@udongein.xyz
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@mirabilos @navi @wyatt @reia @rose It works badly, but 9p support is probably not available on that OS so that's it for conventional "networked filesystems" protocols.(FTP can probably be setup reasonably, or kermit.)
(DIR) Post #B5X90pmxle7HpRUPdA by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@rose @navi @lispi314 @wyatt @reia I’d just try to use local filesystems if possibleyou can use the partitioning tools on NetBSD or Solaris to shrink or throw away one and prepare for Linux already, too
(DIR) Post #B5X9SDOY6lVerR7tJo by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@lispi314 @reia @wyatt @navi @rose (ofc only with initramfs baked into the kernel image like we do on BSD)your best bet is probably to create a "miniroot" ext4fs image on your normal Linux box with the tarball extracted inside, device nodes (unless devtmpfs automount) set up for sparc), minimum size, set to resize itself to partition max on first boot, and dd that on a slice from NetBSD or Solaris, that way you can skip the other Linux distro and, possibly and if you can figure out the root= part, even the initramfsleaves the kernel, but if you can netboot it easily for the first time, before setting up… SILO or something?or put it into the ext4 image and netboot grub, if it has a sparc64 port, probably better