Post B5QLyOMogkg9V4hpj6 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
(DIR) More posts by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
(DIR) Post #B5Q982mWUy4i2v0Bxw by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
8 likes, 8 repeats
Imagine being a coder but thinking there's no artistry to writing code. What an empty existence
(DIR) Post #B5QC4hBYdUcg3no59U by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
2 likes, 1 repeats
i don't know what AI brainrot has made otherwise prolific and proficient coders think that there's suddenly no distinguishing factors between good code, code written with artistry, and bad code, but it's baffling when this is a thing that we can measure and have measured in the past and they fucking know it
(DIR) Post #B5QCA2RH2krvQOho6S by 0x00string@infosec.exchange
1 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko they dont want to know code is art
(DIR) Post #B5QCI2lzgW9omIDMGG by lumi@snug.moe
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko it's honestly depressing how people i used to look up to have fallen into this bullshit. it shows that they never gave a shit in the first place and were just acting like they didor, more charitably, they feel they need to be on the genai train to make sure they can adapt to new conditions and they feel hopeless to stop it. though this also feels off
(DIR) Post #B5QCJEtK7BzQeSDFxY by agatha@snkrgirl.cfd
2 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko while knuth has recently written praising ai gen bs, these people need to be reminded that one of the quintessential series of books about programming is called "the art of computer programming" :akko_giggle:
(DIR) Post #B5QCNpXtmDC5UXNfdI by lumi@snug.moe
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko ugh, fasterthanlime and niko matsakis... :neocat_sad:i used to look up to you both
(DIR) Post #B5QCj04XpmsKDikGfY by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
2 likes, 1 repeats
and for the record i'm not talking about making code to create art like a game or something. i'm saying *the code itself* can be art. a perfectly constructed api, a framework that fits together just so, when code comes together in a beautiful harmony, *that is art*, it requires artistry to create!
(DIR) Post #B5QCj0Xc5i7xfsLTyi by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
3 likes, 2 repeats
"it doesn't matter what the code is all that matters is that it runs and produces the desired result"liar. what you're saying is bullshit. you know it's bullshit and you're saying it anyway
(DIR) Post #B5QDVh9uwU0fkdTgga by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
2 likes, 1 repeats
i hope eventually the dopamine rush of the code slop slot machine fades and you look around and find yourself in a morass of technical debt and realize how utterly fucking wrong you were
(DIR) Post #B5QDfi0Ue0SVHEqQiG by lumi@snug.moe
0 likes, 2 repeats
@eniko the saddest thing, to me, is people that i thought had a moral compass; that actually gave a shit about their fellow humans, suddenly don't seem to care about that anymoreand why don't they care anymore? this shiny new toythat is why you drop all of your morals? are you fucking serious? THAT IS IT? THE FUCK?
(DIR) Post #B5QDifX6IcHETMVYRc by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lumi gambling addiction is a helluva thing
(DIR) Post #B5QDjeNI5hfvAbO57g by lumi@snug.moe
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko privilege is also one hell of a drug :neocat_sad:
(DIR) Post #B5QFJuLUHxzb59Of5s by SRAZKVT@tech.lgbt
1 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko @lumi i know many gambling addicts that are far better people than anyone throwing others under the bus for ai
(DIR) Post #B5QFKvLK4AIISsnv5E by adampetrone@mastodon.gamedev.place
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lumi @eniko this hit me hardest as well.Current colleagues gobbling up the kool aid. Everyone eager to jump on board. One person I've known for nearly 18 years just all in on a plagarism machine that ruins lives.
(DIR) Post #B5QLm8TxvCoolACoM4 by MinervasRefuge@cathode.church
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko There's a magic in code, an art that's not in colour or shape. But of flow and form. I miss the time before having to contend daily with enshittification of the web and software. Before it accelerated to this current point. And it's still speeding up.To borrow from Willy Wonka...There’s no earthly way of knowing, which direction we are going…
(DIR) Post #B5QLplwneEZg1kQW2K by renardboy@mastodon.social
1 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko The world has been saying that craftsmanship is dead since the industrial revolution.Craftspeople have been crafting all the same.Ignore the noise, carry on.
(DIR) Post #B5QLyOAPQskosatvO4 by flamecat@bark.lgbt
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko I'm honestly torn on this. While I enjoy coding and I like solving complex problem by thinking of an algorithm which solves it elegantly, it is still just a job for me. I never was that passionate about programming in my life (with some exceptions I guess). But I still agree with you that there is absolutely an artistic and creative side to it. It's just for me personally I rather engage with my artistic side by e.g. drawing something in my spare time.Maybe when I leave IT for something else in the future my appreciation for coding will increase. Until then I don't know.
(DIR) Post #B5QLyOMogkg9V4hpj6 by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
0 likes, 0 repeats
@flamecat @eniko have you not worked artful code before a job?To those of us who did, this is maybe clear more easily.I want to craft works I can be proud of. I try to do that even in dayjob context, as much as it lets me.
(DIR) Post #B5QM2qKCgSaDMtbdyK by kinsale42@mstdn.games
1 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko I'm not a coder but I write and I'm an electrician and I see people like that in those realms too, like where is the sense of craftsmanship? Of beauty?
(DIR) Post #B5QM6OwmPqA1cFLYe0 by disorderlyf@todon.eu
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko I like to think it's stockholm syndrome, justifying what the industry has become by pretending they're onboard with LLMs until they start to believe it themselves. The ones that didn't get hit in the layoffs got scared into it. The people who would never get sacked because they were already revered as gods either fell for the sycophancy or are justifying survivor's guilt.The only person I actually know through more than just social media banter who seems to both know their shit and have fallen for this is a literal cult escapee. Admittedly it's been hard to come to that conclusion because, I'll admit, the idea of treating code like you're selling cans of coke is disgusting to me. And the whole point of this technology seems to be replacing highly skilled artisans with one of those robots that are just a single arm in a car factory.
(DIR) Post #B5QMI9HAVT2CUIU7Um by lesley@mastodon.gamedev.place
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko I guess it's good that this is the second subtweet I've seen, but I don't see the original (or maybe it's just a coincidence and you both decided to criticize the same thing at the same time).I feel like most coders around me are like that (code for a living, code for money, etc). I try hard to empathize with them, and I advocated for the idea that "it's fine to be a programmer while not enjoying it." But now, many people want to deprive me of my enjoyment of artistry, too.
(DIR) Post #B5QMIA7HNiib5urjii by lesley@mastodon.gamedev.place
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko, I wonder if a good thing (among many bad things) the dwindling interest in this field brought is that, after a few years, many of those people will leave.
(DIR) Post #B5QMVGntpTHpbF3Esy by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
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@eniko @lesley the original is from mjg59, Linux old guy, but also Restricted Boot apologist, and apparently now works for nieVida in IT security. He’s long lost the plot, with only very occasional insights.
(DIR) Post #B5QMZzbHDeHjgwOnOC by dukeboitans@mas.to
0 likes, 1 repeats
@agatha @eniko knuth too? fucking hell. i still have his books in my amazon whishlist. time to do some cleanup i guess. so sad.
(DIR) Post #B5QMhuKwfjxtgTXBbM by agatha@snkrgirl.cfd
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dukeboitans @eniko yea, I'll not go after his text about claude, but I'll say this doesn't invalidate his older writing, in my eyesbut I'll let you decide that on your own
(DIR) Post #B5QMhuUs4puABGB74a by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
0 likes, 0 repeats
@agatha @dukeboitans @eniko eurghs, does that mean I should stick to texlive 2022 or so for both working tabu and avoidement of ensloppification?
(DIR) Post #B5QMnRgQ7PwoYPDgC8 by kabel42@polymaths.social
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko Maybe not, we had test driven design in uni and maybe some people don't actually like coding, the just want the test to go green
(DIR) Post #B5QMnRrlRF1P7aWjsO by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kabel42 @eniko that doesn’t apply to the person who said that, though.
(DIR) Post #B5QOFQop1gc1w33fLk by flamecat@bark.lgbt
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mirabilos @eniko Before my job? Not really. I of course learned to code before I got my job, but I don't think I did anything substantial in that time.I'm proud of the code I create, especially if it is a solution for a complex problem, but most of it is obviously made in a corporate context since I don't really code in my spare time (again, exceptions apply). It's just very hard for me to have a full-time job where I code stuff and then do the same thing when I'm not at work. Already got my burnout symptoms covered, so I don't need any more.And like I maybe implied I don't plan on staying in IT forever. Maybe I can find my love for coding in the future when I don't do it professionally. I'm just uncertain how that will look like.
(DIR) Post #B5QOFR4m4NNAjWWPDM by mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko @flamecat I see.I had the joy to discover it as kid, that helped. Yeah, in your case it would likely take leaving IT. Trying to do joyful things at home while the dayjob saps all your spoons is not easy to continue, let alone start.
(DIR) Post #B5QYLZX2Xi9CEoJ7q4 by nomdeb@mstdn.social
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko A long ago acquaintance of mine headed up a big name tech firm office in the Bay Area, and told me they'd much rather hire creative people and teach them coding, than hire coders and teach them creativity.... FWIW. :)
(DIR) Post #B5QYPfkzLAE8hcmqqO by JHB17@mastodon.online
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eniko There' s something to be said for the bad-old-days where the entire program had to fit in a 64k block. I remember counting bytes ...
(DIR) Post #B5QYWM9mby3HwPZUy8 by eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
0 likes, 1 repeats
@rapsneezy2 except bread doesn't develop technical debt. Neither does furniture or most other stuff that splits between artisanal and mass produced
(DIR) Post #B5QgalnY1DN8G3mpnc by stux@mstdn.social
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eniko The process is fun while the end result is often boring
(DIR) Post #B5R7U8ZldA9ZdZP292 by nickynah@rebel.ar
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lumi @eniko a recurrent talk I have my fellow coworkers is “hey this is terrible for society and humanity” and they are like “yeah but look at the amount of code it makes we can make more stuff”I feel insane on a daily basis
(DIR) Post #B5R7YKoe44Xel0MaQq by lumi@snug.moe
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nickynah @eniko "this has really bad effects on the world and other people, but those are consequences i have decided are worth it" :neocat_googly: