Post B4DIXqgMQveAmWVM8m by zzt@mas.to
(DIR) More posts by zzt@mas.to
(DIR) Post #B4DIXqgMQveAmWVM8m by zzt@mas.to
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I’m hoping this doesn’t come off as an “I told you so” post, but a number of the people you dismissed as systemd haters were trying to warn you about the longstanding technical and structural issues that make something on the level of slop code in systemd an instant and catastrophic issue with no easy solution
(DIR) Post #B4DIXqslgnZVP0JGTo by zzt@mas.to
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are some of the supposed systemd alternatives run by fascists? yes they are. a do-everything init ecosystem is an irresistible lever of power for them. init should be thin and independent enough that it isn’t an ecosystem at all, but if we must have an init ecosystem then we must be very careful who controls that power. again, ideally, there should be no power to control.with that said, can we please stop fashjacketing all of the people who recognize systemd and wayland as levers of power?
(DIR) Post #B4DIXr80m7lUAHRREu by fiore@brain.worm.pink
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@zzt where does wayland come into this at all ??? how is that a level of power ?? the point of wayland makes it even less centrally controlled than x11 was , witj pretty much only one working implementation . i agree with the sentiment of this posts but wayland has many competing implementations both toolkitwise and composotor(library) side , it does NOT suffer from this
(DIR) Post #B4DIXrHaCXQAdxv59s by zzt@mas.to
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systemd isn’t how most software is shaped. we don’t need to recreate this particular set of mistakes to have a modern init.“but @zzt what alternatives can you recomm—“ openrc. openrc on alpine or gentoo. openrc is thin enough and reputationally made by people who don’t fucking suck. it’s well-designed. you probably won’t hate it, and the only bits of systemd you’ll miss are the bits there to lock you in.there’s plenty of other alternatives. don’t post the fash ones or I’ll get fucking mad.
(DIR) Post #B4DIXrgkgxYPu1hBOC by zzt@mas.to
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at this point it probably goes without saying but to be perfectly clear: system v init was fucking garbage, as was system v unix. we can do better than sysv or systemd. the cool thing is, we already have!
(DIR) Post #B4DIk8HYp4ZmqGlJHE by fiore@brain.worm.pink
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@zzt not liking wayland and freedesktop is fair but like . lets not pretend your point wouldnt stand even stronger in an xorg controlled situation , please
(DIR) Post #B4DIxLOdNNrzHNN1VY by fiore@brain.worm.pink
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@zzt wayland puts more power in the hands of developers
(DIR) Post #B4DJ0lDdpB2kEfrEo4 by fiore@brain.worm.pink
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@zzt whicj is also a fair criticism of wayland : “i dont want to implement so much stuff just for what would be a simple window manager under x” is a fair argument !!
(DIR) Post #B4EtsITahEZUEl6ah6 by lizzy@social.vlhl.dev
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@zzt which ones are run by facists, huh? i know openrc, s6 and runit and nitro are done by cool people. is dinit bad or smth?
(DIR) Post #B4EtsIjtibcD3Kjc6y by zzt@mas.to
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@lizzy the best examples I have of the ones reaching for an ecosystem are fortunately dead systemd forks run by absolute assholes.the ones I’ve seen pointed to as examples in modern discourse are suckless init, which I don’t think anyone uses (for good reason, it’s baby’s first init made by nazis), and devuan, which doesn’t actually run an init project of its own but which is the most visible fascist anti-systemd ecosystem.
(DIR) Post #B4EtsIxitCfrkDCef2 by lizzy@social.vlhl.dev
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@zzt oh yea, artix unfortunately is full of fash people tooi used to run artix for years because my laptop wasn't powerful enough for gentoo, but now gentoo has the binhost and i have better hardware, so i was able to switch back. really glad i did considering they package xlibre now
(DIR) Post #B4EtsJBu2U16SBpylM by zzt@mas.to
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@lizzy uggh xlibre is such a prime recent example of attempted ecosystem control too. it’s not a competent attempt on a technical level at all, but it gets marketed and SEOed to all hell in an attempt to astroturf legitimacy. the hope, I think, is for people to eventually run out of alternatives and get desperate enough they’re willing to look past the fascism, and then they’re stuck.
(DIR) Post #B4EtsJMtNco70GyktM by lizzy@social.vlhl.dev
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@zzt i still love how the xlibre people wrote 2^16 in C to mean 2 raised to the power of 16
(DIR) Post #B4EtsJYEhRshZSHoZc by nickzoic@aus.social
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@lizzy @zzt Making this even funnier, the gcc warnings for this are just so good and helpful:
(DIR) Post #B4EtsJYweoRrbecNg8 by zzt@mas.to
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@lizzy usually suckless init and devuan are synthesized together to form the incorrect accusation that systemd alternatives are all run by fascists. it’s a ridiculous thing that falls apart under any analysis, but unfortunately that’s where some of the discourse has been lately.
(DIR) Post #B4Ez30mvIglCKn4nQ0 by kirby@freerobuxextremist.com
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@zzt what fash ones? and why would i care if you get mad?
(DIR) Post #B4EzHN2dMM9LPFGuTA by zzt@mas.to
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@kirby what a fucking reply
(DIR) Post #B4F5M9s4LzOdjQzpp2 by kopper@not-brain.d.on-t.work
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@fiore @zzt to be fair, that's not the protocol's fault per se. a compositor can decide to outsource the window management bits to a separate process. in fact, it already exists codeberg.org/river/river
(DIR) Post #B4F5MA33h8BeHW8bx2 by fiore@brain.worm.pink
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@kopper @zzt indeed , i love river ! the point is , there is more choice on “who has power” when it comes to wayland