Post B46m2MvYeGnO2WnaiG by hyc@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by hyc@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #B46HaKBkF0KmoP57a4 by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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ah to have the confidence of the average Linux brohttps://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2026-March/059439.html
(DIR) Post #B46Hn1BcCYqtdu4d8q by joshbressers@infosec.exchange
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@ariadne I think I'll wait for X13
(DIR) Post #B46I375m0nAoan13aq by DenJohn@mas.to
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@ariadne they really should have never named it wayland, X12 should have been the name. This is like people getting confused about the xbox one vs the xbox 360 in the store back in the day.
(DIR) Post #B46IL6pNjXAYz7viz2 by krans@mastodon.me.uk
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@ariadne Thanks, that was very entertaining
(DIR) Post #B46IPqLQRdtfJMAx6m by astraleureka@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne this is definitely a shitpost, right? it has all the signs of being severely unserious which makes me worried it's actually in earnest
(DIR) Post #B46IVIh4TG2qgMu0m0 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
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@ariadne And I guess to any X11 or Wayland dev it's basically (un)intended bait.
(DIR) Post #B46Io3QzQfDQrHK5fk by hyc@mastodon.social
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@astraleureka @ariadne what gave it away? Maybe the "I just moved from Windows to Linux" bit?
(DIR) Post #B46JJ0HnBV5w4SmLGC by jannem@fosstodon.org
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@ariadne "I go by the username SuperStarHD725," - this *has* to be a (not so) subtle troll...
(DIR) Post #B46KV73TwUusUiQIOu by tux0r@layer8.space
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@ariadne Meanwhile, in OpenBSD camp: (crickets)
(DIR) Post #B46LE8RlcBhnqGFbF2 by pikhq@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne i... i think they're so unfamiliar with the existing body of work to even know what x11 and wayland do. wow.
(DIR) Post #B46m2MXS5tVsplWL8i by hyc@mastodon.social
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@astraleureka @ariadne I must admit I'm a little surprised that X11 is still around. I first started writing games for X10 back around 1986, and I worked on the port of X11R1 to Apollo DOMAIN/OS around 1987 or '88 or so. Probably none of my code is still around in that tree, but I think the fact that X11 has survived this long says it got quite a lot right.
(DIR) Post #B46m2MjrLlRDSFKFTk by jamesh@aus.social
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@hyc @astraleureka @ariadne I think it's more a case that people were able to fix problems through extensions, and it wasn't worth the cost of breaking protocol compatibility.For example, pretty much all apps are using an alternative font management and rendering system. The core protocol version still exists, but can only see a fraction of the fonts on my system.There's also large parts of the core protocol drawing APIs that go unused with modern apps. It's just not worth deleting them and breaking the protocol.
(DIR) Post #B46m2MvYeGnO2WnaiG by hyc@mastodon.social
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@jamesh @astraleureka @ariadne the fact that their provision for extensions allowed so much functionality to be added, that they never could have envisioned 40 years ago, is exactly what they got right.
(DIR) Post #B46m2N584gS4WDHEdE by astraleureka@social.treehouse.systems
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@hyc @jamesh @ariadne I agree, the extension model is the only reason X11 managed to hang on as long as it has.In terms of the legacy APIs, Xfont was awful and Xft+freetype provides a far better experience for both developers and end users. Xlib classic X{Draw,Fill,Copy}* APIs are relics from a completely different era of graphics hardware, using them today would be like using raw GDI & BitBlt on Windows. imo Wayland ultimately was the right choice as more and more parts of Xorg have been bypassed and subsequently bitrotted. Xrender, glamor, modesetting, and evdev exemplify this. in the Linux world at least, the classic driver model no longer serves any purpose but to load these shims. (the greater UNIX world is a slightly different story, and the lack of X11 development is a real problem for those users but that's getting into a whole other can of worms)legacy apps *should* supported at an upper layer (a la wayback, xwayland) rather than shipping massive chunks of ancient and oft unexercised code within the core display server, all to support classical interfaces that were already on the verge of obsolescence by the turn of the century
(DIR) Post #B46mLxfGHigxTpWEUq by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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@ariadne@treehouse.systems whatever happened to xlibre
(DIR) Post #B46mLxvDKPS6HIyyMS by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@brettm I don't know or care about xlibre
(DIR) Post #B46oKy3jX1VEK5cSOW by hyc@mastodon.social
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@astraleureka @jamesh @ariadne re: classic Xlib - do we really need to execute 3D shader pipelines just to draw a rectangle nowadays?
(DIR) Post #B46oQtTHVD0HpbOXfU by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@astraleureka @jamesh @hyc on accelerators which do not have 2D primitives in silicon anymore? yes
(DIR) Post #B46ocaiF4Ykl7wyE8u by ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@astraleureka @jamesh @hyc (but that isn't what Wayland does anyway. the toolkit is doing that on either display system. nothing stops an implementation of a Wayland compositor that just uses 2D blitting hardware to composite.)
(DIR) Post #B46r2cHG4qFpPxt1Wa by astraleureka@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne @jamesh @hyc when it comes to the actual pixel placement, there isn't much point in having fixed-function 2D-only hardware when shader cores can handle those tasks with far more flexibility and at reasonably comparable efficiency. the subsequent parts of the classical pipeline are still present: modern GPUs still contain many fixed-function blocks comparable to legacy GPUs, just that many of them are able to be driven in arbitrary order, and possibly directly from a shader rather than a higher level command queue. ROPs are still a thing, at least on Nvidia and AMD parts they live outside of the shader cores. cursor planes, scaling, clipping, scanout, etc are still driven in similar manners as well.
(DIR) Post #B46uKTqiS1UQLygJ1c by slyecho@mdon.ee
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@ariadne sounds like a kid, tbh. But nothing wrong with that.The problem might be what is their influence that they are a first time Linux user and their first distro is Arch and then they are interested in keeping X alive?
(DIR) Post #B47COhbF4FSnKhbeXQ by north@xn--8r9a.com
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@ariadne He created an email address for it.