[HN Gopher] Hetzner raises prices while significantly lowering b...
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Hetzner raises prices while significantly lowering bandwidth (US)
Author : acaloiar
Score : 121 points
Date : 2024-11-28 20:56 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (adriano.fyi)
(TXT) w3m dump (adriano.fyi)
| trollied wrote:
| Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42264427
| gnabgib wrote:
| Lots of dupes of this one today
|
| 107 points/50 comments
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42264668
|
| 88 points/38 comments
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42264789
| atomic128 wrote:
| As a customer of Linode, I feel like I'm getting a lot, maybe too
| much, for the money I pay.
|
| For $5 per month, I have a CPU running continuously near 100%
| utilization, training and retraining L1/L2/L3-CPU-cache-resident
| transformers, looking for patterns in futures and options
| markets.
|
| This kind of extreme resource utilization is becoming more
| common, and these businesses have to adapt to stay profitable.
|
| I expect Linode to change the price on me, eventually.
| dangus wrote:
| I don't find that to be all that impressive.
|
| I'm immediately saving money with the server I built out of
| mostly used parts and threw in my closet compared to VPS
| solutions.
|
| The only reason it's near 100% utilization is because $5 VPS
| instances have barely any computing power assigned to them.
|
| For the same price as one game server I'm running something
| like 5-8 VMs at once. I can utilize 128GB of RAM and 6/12 real
| CPU cores (Ryzen 3600).
| Aeolun wrote:
| Completely unrelated, but I'm surprised how many people
| actually use the Ryzen 3600, from desktops to servers, it
| seems to be everywhere.
| ryukoposting wrote:
| What's the justification for this approach? Buy an old NUC with
| some cheap Celeron in it, install Hamachi if you need remote
| access, and it'll pay for itself in a couple months.
| Firerouge wrote:
| Seeing as they are paying $5 a month, how do you expect
| buying a NUC to pay for itself in a few months? Where are you
| finding NUCs for $20 with free electricity?
| viraptor wrote:
| Any decommissioned office PC from eBay will be faster than
| $5 linode. For example search for optiflex
| https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=optiplex+pc&_udhi=30
| They're not too power hungry either if you make sure not to
| go for i7s
| gear54rus wrote:
| Don't think we're close to that point yet. You can still get
| the same server for free from oracle free tier if you're
| willing to put up with god awful enterprisey control panel.
|
| Also that linode CPU is virtualized (i.e. at least some of that
| cache is shared).
| dizhn wrote:
| Oracle has people jumping all kinds of hoops to get that
| service too. Just like Hetzner. Took me a few tries with
| different credit cards then tried to get one for my friend
| with their card and nothing would work. Great free service
| though. That ampere vm with 24 gb ram is quite capable.
| qwertox wrote:
| It's most likely a vCPU. So even the caches are shared.
| czhu12 wrote:
| What are some examples of applications people are running that:
|
| 1. Require 20TB of bandwidth / month
|
| 2. That bandwidth can't be shielded by Cloudflare and others?
|
| Is it like... real time video streaming? Gaming servers? I can't
| imagine a web app getting anywhere close to that.
|
| I run a mid sized NFT art creation website that generates both
| images and GIF's (https://mintables.club) and with over 100000
| users at peak, it only needed about 1.5TB of bandwidth.
| ironhaven wrote:
| BitTorrent seedbox. If you are apart of a private torrent
| tracker you may download 5tb and upload 10tb of data per month
| to be in good standing within that tracker's community
| lysace wrote:
| Yeah, this is it.
| Figs wrote:
| PeerTube comes to mind.
| bouncycastle wrote:
| blockchain nodes
| mickael-kerjean wrote:
| I have 2 services that run above those figures:
|
| 1. the demo instance of my OSS software which a bring your own
| storage Dropbox like UI for SFTP, S3, FTP, and every protocols
| imaginable: https://github.com/mickael-kerjean/filestash People
| tend to come in the demo to upload / download tons of stuffs
|
| 2. the docker registry for my oss stuff since I was kicked out
| of the docker open source program and now need to find a new
| place to store all the images. 10 millions downloads over the
| last few years, it does add up very quickly way above the 20TB
| limits if your image isn't super slim and try to selfhost
| everything
| arccy wrote:
| github's registry (ghcr.io) is the other big free one
| viraptor wrote:
| There are many data streams you may want to process that take
| lots of network traffic. CT logs, monitoring aggregators, web
| crawlers, etc. For the traffic you initiate, there's no
| proxying/caching you can do.
| johannes1234321 wrote:
| Besides needing it: Not having to fear that an attacker
| spamming the machine with Mail or web requests or something
| incurs a bug traffic bill gives better sleep at night.
| klabb3 wrote:
| [delayed]
| imperialdrive wrote:
| Those are some steeeep drops. I'm curious how they settled upon
| such numbers.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Presumably by looking at their competition, and realizing
| they're still a better option.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| [dupe] Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42264427
| lordofgibbons wrote:
| I created an account with Hetzner earlier this year, and
| confirmed my Credit Card with them, but a few second later, they
| auto-suspended my account before I could log in.
|
| I emailed support, and they bluntly told me to create a new
| account and this time use real information... Needless to say, I
| bought compute elsewhere.
|
| I don't know how they're still in business.
| vdfs wrote:
| I've been reading about how great Hetzner for years but i
| couldn't get past the sigup page where they require a credit
| card just to create an account.
| aryonoco wrote:
| Honestly if you are providing computer resources, that's
| pretty standard now and one of the only lines of defence
| against abuse
| Simon_ORourke wrote:
| That's a particularly, but unfortunately good example of how
| awful they are as a company. The sooner they get pushed out of
| business the better.
| viraptor wrote:
| It's always a balance between how much fraud you allow and how
| many real customers you reject. They set their threshold at an
| interesting level, but maybe they're happy with that choice.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| You're right. But unfortunately this mindset moves us closer
| and closer to having algorithms exclude people from society
| and life. And as the stories already told here show, it can
| happen to any of us for no apparent reason.
|
| It's like, imagine a magic wand that, if waved, would make
| life a little better for 99% of society, but much worse for
| 1%. Would it be moral to wave that wand?
| johnfn wrote:
| Arguably, we wave that magic wand every time we decide
| _not_ to donate to starving children in third-world
| countries. Which is pretty often!
| tshaddox wrote:
| There's nothing particularly scary about "algorithms"
| making these choices since it's just people at these
| companies choosing and implementing the algorithms. It
| wouldn't get better if those humans weren't allowed to use
| algorithms to make these choices since decisions.
| klabb3 wrote:
| What type of fraud exactly? You mean like stolen CCs? It
| feels very medieval as a financial trust system if every
| little vendor can't trust payments, even when you _pay up
| front_? Like this is in some ways worse than cold hard cash.
| And then we pay VISA premium on top of that, for the
| convenience of being mistrusted..
| dan353hehe wrote:
| Yep. Same thing happened to me. I was not able to get my
| account working. Ever.
|
| I have all my stuff on vultr now.
| Salmonfisher11 wrote:
| > I don't know how they're still in business.
|
| They have 400 GBit/s of DTAG transit.
|
| Showing that they are rich as fuck without saying it.
| haolez wrote:
| Same with me a few years ago. Their support told me that they
| didn't want me as a customer. It was my first interaction with
| them. I swear I'm just a regular nerd with a credit card :D
|
| They are bizarre.
| qwertox wrote:
| When I ordered a VPS at Netcup (a Hetzner alternative) they
| called me and asked me for the name of the hotel next to my
| place to check if I really lived at the address I provided. I
| guess that if i would have needed to look it up, that is,
| struggled a bit with the answer, they would have denied me as a
| customer.
| this_user wrote:
| I had the same thing, but this was a business address while I
| was working remotely and had no idea about the area. Told
| them as much on the phone while looking the answer up on
| Google Maps. They just accepted that and opened the account.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Your complaint is they didn't allow you to misrepresent your
| identity?
|
| I think they're obliged to take your details, not least of
| which for tax purposes, as an EU company. (Though maybe they
| have a non-EU company too?)
|
| There are directives akin to the USA Bank Secrecy Act where
| companies selling certain services 'have to' collect
| information on their customers.
|
| When you buy online in USA don't you have to identify yourself
| so you can pay your state sales taxes?
| reaperman wrote:
| What led you to assume that GP misrepresented their identity?
| The way I read the comment - they put their real info but was
| accused of putting fake info.
|
| How would you even attempt to rectify that?
| Aeolun wrote:
| Send them a copy of your ID?
| tonygiorgio wrote:
| Always felt like they were in the business of blaming and
| hating their customers. Cloud providers that nitpick and judge
| every aspect of their customers' business details and
| technicalities are a huge operational risk. This archaic
| practice is the reason generic cloud orchestration was a must,
| and it's just not needed anymore.
|
| I don't care how cheap they are. You get what you pay for.
| Aeolun wrote:
| There's nothing about cheap that implies terrible customer
| service. Or rather, the reverse isn't necessarily true.
| jorvi wrote:
| Are Hetzner Europe and US run by different companies or
| something?
|
| My experience in the EU has been nothing but stellar.
| rahkiin wrote:
| I believe so, so that it does not run foul of the CLOUD
| Act.
| crowcroft wrote:
| I signed up and immediately got banned because I was accessing
| through a VPN, which I think is a common problem others have
| had. I emailed them and their advice was to stop using a VPN
| and try again.
| danpalmer wrote:
| I think this might be a cultural thing. HN, SV, and the market
| for IaaS/SaaS products is a bit of an American monoculture,
| where "the customer is always right" and there's a strong
| desire to make the customer happy. I think this is mostly a
| good thing and especially a good way to build early stage
| companies, but in my experience it's less present elsewhere.
|
| In some places companies are happy doing their own thing, don't
| need every customer, don't need to be everything to every
| customer, and won't fight for business in the same way. Does
| that limit them? Maybe? But I suspect not enough to be a
| problem most of the time.
| mtmail wrote:
| I was customer for 10 years, but for business I needed a second
| account. Banned immediately even after I submitted a passport
| copy. Worked after contacting their support. Still happy
| customer (with both accounts). I think they're just very strict
| and get their (un)fair share of stolen credit card or stolen
| identity signups.
| rtpg wrote:
| I mean your transaction probably got flagged as fraudulent
| (like if your postal code didn't match your card), it's not
| that mysterious.
|
| I think most online operators that have "spend $3 with us"
| tiers have to be super vigilant about card transactions, and
| when you fall into the cracks you're a bit SOL.
| cjaackie wrote:
| It's kind of not the brightest to both raise prices and reduce
| services at the same time, who's in charge over there? Maybe I'm
| missing something ?
| consumer451 wrote:
| Is anyone old enough to remember 1and1? Similar arc?
| dindresto wrote:
| They still exist, called ionos now: https://www.ionos.com/
| consumer451 wrote:
| Yes, I should have been more clear. It was another Germany?
| based provider that gave excellent, even free prices... until
| they didn't.
| danpalmer wrote:
| Maybe I'm too young to remember the good times, but to me 1and1
| were just the European GoDaddy. Mostly targeting small
| businesses who didn't know any better and ripping them off with
| bad services at inflated prices, through a lot of well targeted
| marketing. Selling things like email with a 250MB inbox and 2MB
| attachment limit far beyond the time when that was a reasonable
| offering, and at a far higher price than that was worth (being
| worth roughly zero).
| consumer451 wrote:
| They started with free .com registration.
| themgt wrote:
| As a Hetzner bandwidth enjoyer affected by this, this is why (
| _HN cough_ ) multi-cloud/dedi k3s is great, because if you get
| rug pulled you just migrate to another provider with better
| prices.
|
| That said, $1/TB for bandwidth overage seems pretty fair. I
| empathize with the complaining but if the new price is such a
| ripoff everyone should be recommending what cloud VM provider
| they're migrating to for a better deal.
| princevegeta89 wrote:
| As someone who's already using the dedicated server for a ton
| of things, I have been really grateful. But now, I have a new
| question, are they going to do this to their dedicated servers
| as well?
| ndjdjddjsjj wrote:
| It does feel like a case of the Costco hotdog going up to $2
| followed by "grrrr. Thats it! I'm..... going to keep buying it
| because it is still damn cheap!"
| mobeigi wrote:
| To be fair their pre-change allowances were insanely generous.
| xeornet wrote:
| Not sure why this is front page news.
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