[HN Gopher] Boris Vallejo and the pixel art of the demoscene
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Boris Vallejo and the pixel art of the demoscene
        
       Author : blakespot
       Score  : 463 points
       Date   : 2024-09-30 23:31 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (marincomics.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (marincomics.com)
        
       | Dalewyn wrote:
       | Fair warning that some of the art is NSFW.
        
         | shit_game wrote:
         | I was about to say that it felt very Gorean, but then I
         | realized _duh_ there's a reason why.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | I know these types of images take hold in a 13-year-old boy's
         | mind and make him a lifelong fan, and for anyone who lived
         | through that particular time and place, I understand the
         | appeal. But for most everyone else, this is some cheesy
         | artwork. I say that as someone who read more than my share of
         | Edgar Rice Burroughs.
         | 
         | The article author himself realizes that the image he is
         | copying has no narrative. Many of the images lack much in the
         | way of composition. The bodies are nicely rendered as oiled-up
         | perfected sex objects, but that's about it.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | And that's the argument you'd go with at work?
        
           | Dalewyn wrote:
           | I'm not making any commentary on the art thereof.
           | 
           | This is a forum hosted by venture capitalist investors and
           | frequented primarily by IT professionals ("hackers"),
           | unwittingly opening some NSFW material probably won't fly
           | well in that kind of environment.
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | If this counts as NSFW, then browse with images enabled.
             | 
             | The National Gallery (of the UK) has this page one click
             | from the homepage, "Our most famous paintings"
             | 
             | https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/must-sees
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | ^ I missed the negation. I meant to write "If this counts
               | as NSFW, browse with images disabled".
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | This does in fact count as NSFW in every workplace I've
               | ever been in. Perhaps stop trying to argue with the
               | poster who was merely trying to give people a friendly
               | warning just so they know they might get in trouble if
               | someone sees them looking at this art at work.
               | 
               | Whether the standards of workplaces should allow artistic
               | nudity is _completely_ beside the point. Neither you, nor
               | I, nor Dalewyn control such things. All we can do is work
               | around them.
        
             | surfingdino wrote:
             | So, you're telling us that NSFW material belongs in Kenya
             | and other places curating content?
             | https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/ How
             | hypocritical.
        
             | ogurechny wrote:
             | I can actually imagine "venture capitalist investors"
             | participating in some oiled spanking ritual, Vallejo style,
             | because someone opened an "NSFW" link, and "corporate
             | culture" dictates that kind of punishment must be
             | performed.
             | 
             | Normal people, not so much.
        
           | scotty79 wrote:
           | All art is cheesy. If you briefly find any of it profound
           | it's only because in some aspect you are briefly a 13 year
           | old boy full of awe and excitement.
           | 
           | That's what "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is
           | diplomatically trying to say.
        
             | veunes wrote:
             | Art can evoke a wide range of reactions, and that's often
             | what makes it so powerful and meaningful
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | Appreciating it requires a certain state of mind. A state
               | of mind of a 13 year old boy, in one way or another,
               | looking at Boris Valleyo painting.
        
           | armitron wrote:
           | Compare Vallejo to Frank Frazetta and it's immediately
           | obvious why the latter is considered a master of fantastic
           | art while the former is drifting towards obscurity.
           | 
           | Frazetta's art is full of tension [1] and energy [2] whilst
           | Vallejo is simply drawing his circle of bodybuilders in
           | various poses. The environments he paints have absolutely no
           | effect on his posed subjects and the end-result is
           | disconnected and comes across as "fake" in its intended
           | setting as it evokes memories of bodybuilding gyms.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.frazettagirls.com/cdn/shop/products/frazettag
           | irl...
           | 
           | [2] https://frank-frazetta.pixels.com/featured/the-destroyer-
           | fra...
        
             | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
             | You might as well be comparing Slayer and Cannibal Corpse.
             | Both styles have their place and they can be enjoyed in
             | their own right.
             | 
             | I prefer Frazetta too, but Vallejo is rightly recognised as
             | one of the greats. He does his own thing. Not everyone can,
             | or should try to, be Frazetta. That'd be pretty boring.
             | 
             | Or, like I once told a friend: you gotta stop comparing
             | everyone to Bugs (Bunny).
        
         | rawgabbit wrote:
         | It is also interesting that when I ask ChatGPT to create an
         | image inspired by Vallejo or Frank Frazetta, I get hit by
         | content policy violation. I don't see anything indecent about
         | heroic fantasy. Oh well c'est la vie.
        
           | eru wrote:
           | ChatGPT also refuses to make pictures of yoghurt. It's
           | refined by a special flavour of prudes.
        
             | BizarroLand wrote:
             | That's what happens when you let Dark Helmet dictate the
             | outputs.
             | 
             | "Yogurt! Yogurt! I hate Yogurt! Even with Strawberries."
        
           | kridsdale1 wrote:
           | It's a copyright thing not the nudity.
        
       | javajosh wrote:
       | There's something touchingly innocent about Boris Vallejo's work.
       | It is as if he is channeling the fantasies of a 13-year-old boy
       | without shame, guilt or even self-consciousness. It is that rare
       | artwork that is only about itself. It is like a picture that is
       | run through iterative image generation using only the words
       | "hotter" and "heroic" and "mysterious" over and over until an
       | asymptote is reached. It seems pure and innocence in its singular
       | interest, its lack of subtext, if not in its sexual content.
        
         | skeptrune wrote:
         | Never even occurred to me that this art style would be
         | something an adult should be ashamed of, but makes complete
         | sense now that I thought about it. Reminds me of recent space
         | marines 2 drama.
        
           | Sander_Marechal wrote:
           | I'm out-of-the-loop, what Space Marines 2 drama?
        
         | 127 wrote:
         | Yes, it's fantasy. Well spotted.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | 13-year-old me fantasised about working with big deterministic
         | boxes; these days the boxes are much smaller and a little less
         | deterministic, but I'd hope I'm still channeling that fantasy
         | without shame, guilt or even self-consciousness.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | I don't think Vallejo's art was necessarily limited to the
       | demoscene; in the late 70s/80s that style was very common on
       | video game cover art.
       | 
       | Related amusing article:
       | https://www.globalnerdy.com/2007/09/14/reimagining-programmi...
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | That's not really a claim of the article, right about from the
         | first sentence.
        
         | beeflet wrote:
         | Oh hell yes, I really like the covers in that article you
         | linked. It's just amusing to me that "A buff dude and a hot
         | chick fighting dinosaurs on a volcano on mars" somehow is
         | analogous to "Porting COBOL to Excel in TPS reports". The "Pair
         | Programming" one at the end is good, because there is some sort
         | of vague connection you could make with the image. It's like
         | saying "by doing how to do this boring and specific thing
         | you're KINDA JUST LIKE THE GUY ON THE COVER TOO SO YOU SHOULD
         | TOTALLY BUY THIS BOOK". They say sex sells, but what does it
         | sell? This is like an experiment in the most unsexy thing that
         | sex could sell.
         | 
         | The programming textbooks today just seem a bit too 'quirky' by
         | having a single animal or something on the front cover that
         | this is the extreme version of.
        
         | kridsdale1 wrote:
         | And TTRPGs
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | I think Racunari magazine had a couple of non-photo covers in
         | that style, but maybe being a Galaksija spin-off gave them the
         | connection to a F/SF artist?
        
       | shit_game wrote:
       | "I had learned to appreciate the color limitations during the
       | old-school graphics competition at Evoke, where we could only use
       | a predefined color palette. The first time I submitted an entry
       | in 2022, I hated it. The second time, in 2023, I came to accept
       | the limited color palette as a problem to solve. And by 2024, I
       | actually started to enjoy the challenge."
       | 
       | I've found that limitation in artistic mediums can serve as
       | motivation and even inspiration in art. I primarily work with
       | glitch art; the definition is finicky, and creating it without
       | bleeding into the more generic genre of New Aesthetic can be
       | difficult because of how volatile and uncooperative glitches are.
       | A hard limitation on a number of colors in a palette seems
       | simultaneously incredibly frustrating and liberatingly-simple.
       | While it doesn't inherently affect the medium of the work (pixel
       | art), it poses limitations that challenge it (fidelity in detail
       | being most notable). These limitations also pose some ceiling on
       | the work that can be done - a limited color depth makes an
       | artists focus much more on effective detail than perfect detail,
       | which I think adds character to an art piece.
       | 
       | Very interesting article.
        
         | kbouck wrote:
         | _> I 've found that limitation in artistic mediums can serve as
         | motivation and even inspiration in art._
         | 
         | There's a great 1969 interview with Charles Eames in which he
         | discusses design, and constraints as being a necessary
         | component of design.
         | 
         | Some Excerpts:
         | 
         | Interviewer: Does the creation of Design admit constraint?
         | 
         | Eames: Design depends largely on constraints.
         | 
         | Interviewer: What constraints?
         | 
         | Eames: The sum of all constraints. Here is one of the few
         | effective keys to the design problem: the ability of the
         | designer to recognize as many of the constraints as possible,
         | his willingness and enthusiasm for working within these
         | constraints. The constraints of price, size, strength, balance,
         | time and so forth. Each problem has its own peculiar list.
         | 
         | Interviewer: Does Design obey laws?
         | 
         | Eames: Aren't constraints enough?
        
           | ebcode wrote:
           | For more (great stuff) in this vein, check out Lars von
           | Trier's _The Five Obstructions_.
        
             | veunes wrote:
             | A perfect illustration of how limitations can push an
             | artist to think in new ways
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | >limitation in artistic mediums can serve as motivation and
         | even inspiration
         | 
         | Also known as: The quality of software is inversely
         | proportional to the power of hardware.
        
         | veunes wrote:
         | It's like discovering beauty in imperfection
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | If that's glitch art the way I understand glitch art, then it's
         | only volatile and uncooperative because its practitioners want
         | it to be. The majority of people I've seen glitching circuits
         | have no understanding of what they're doing, actively resist
         | gaining any, and then act frustrated when the humidity changes
         | and the glitch doesn't work anymore, or the chip dies after a
         | few more tries.
         | 
         | If you want a glitch to ground out a sync pulse that travels
         | between chips in a Speak N Spell, but do so _without_
         | overstressing the chips and eventually destroying them, there
         | are absolutely ways to do that. Buffers and diodes are not
         | rocket science, and once the signals have been found,
         | manipulating them can be made repeatable, safe, and durable.
         | 
         | If you want a glitch to happen somewhere between the 4th and
         | 40th scanline of a video frame and always during the horizontal
         | blanking interval, it's absolutely possible to construct a
         | trigger circuit that will do precisely that, every time,
         | perhaps still with a configurable degree of randomness but
         | never in a way that will smoke the chips.
         | 
         | Which is to say, suffer for your art only if the suffering is
         | the point. Which I suspect may actually be the case.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I met him, back in the 1980s, when I was still doing paintings,
       | myself[0]. I was surprised at how short he was.
       | 
       | BTW: He was a bodybuilder, and was the model for many of his
       | paintings. His wife also featured in many.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40917886
        
         | vibbix wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing, the paintings are pretty awesome
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | Really great!
         | 
         | While being obviously simpler than old school sci-fi/fantasy
         | paperback covers, the scene arrangement and energy is spot on.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | I love "Fugitive" :-D
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | That was one of my earlier ones.
           | 
           | If you look at the ring on the lizard-finger, you'll see "CDM
           | 84."
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | I like the high contrast in "Dragon Rider".
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | That was partly the photographer's fault.
           | 
           | The pictures started as 8X10s, taken with a Hasselblad, but
           | the guy that did it (for free, so I didn't complain) was a
           | portrait photographer.
           | 
           | Also, many of the subtle color differences did not come
           | through (like thalo blue vs. thalo green, in _Sentinels_ ).
           | 
           | Nowadays, a digital camera could do a lot better.
        
       | erickhill wrote:
       | It sincerely pleases me to see the Amiga so rightfully discussed
       | in this article. In the 1980s, Amiga was a magical computer years
       | ahead of so many of its peers (including the PC by miles). Sadly,
       | the video capabilities that made it so special eventually became
       | its Achilles heel.
        
         | shiroiushi wrote:
         | >Sadly, the video capabilities that made it so special
         | eventually became its Achilles heel.
         | 
         | How weird: I was browsing YouTube last night (with the
         | SmartTube app) and somehow stumbled on a video that discussed
         | this exact thing, basically making the case that Wolfenstein 3D
         | killed the Amiga and discussing how the unique video
         | capabilities it had which were great for 2D side-scrollers made
         | it so difficult to make a FPS shooter work well on it, because
         | apparently the Amiga didn't have direct framebuffer access the
         | way PCs did with VGA mode 0x13.
        
           | winternewt wrote:
           | It certainly has direct framebuffer access. But the bitplane
           | representation where the bits of each pixel's value are
           | spread out across multiple bytes can make certain kinds of
           | updates very time consuming.
        
             | shiroiushi wrote:
             | Yeah, that's what the video was discussing. Sorry, I got
             | the terminology wrong.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | It didn't exactly kill it. Wolfenstein being feasible on the
           | PC and not the Amiga, was just a symptom of stagnation. The
           | Amiga (as a promising commercial venture!) had doom (pun
           | intended) written all over it even before Wolfenstein.
           | Commodore ignored the Amiga for years and years.
           | 
           | Edit: I just recalled something - the Amiga recquired either
           | a TV or increasingly rare monitors with PAL/NTSC frequencies.
           | You couldn't just walk in to a computer shop and buy an Amiga
           | and a VGA compatible monitor. It was a flickery and low-
           | resolution monitor or a TV. Not exactly endearing to
           | professionals. I mean, I loved the Amiga maybe too much, it
           | was always the underdog, but it was increasingly also the
           | losing underdog.
        
             | predictsoft wrote:
             | I used a VGA monitor with my Amiga 1200 (with an adapter).
             | It was not flickery at all and was full resolution.
        
               | actionfromafar wrote:
               | Yes, I know. I had that setup myself. :)
               | 
               | I posit though, that by the time Amiga 1200 was out,
               | Amiga as a commercial venture was already dead in the
               | water. The 1200 was a last ditch effort. Still loved it,
               | of course.
        
               | vintermann wrote:
               | I remember that there was some sort of shareware with a
               | 40 day trial that my brother ran, but it stayed at 40
               | days. They had removed the clock as a cost saving measure
               | on the A1200.
               | 
               | Yup, pretty desperate.
        
             | badpun wrote:
             | A1200 and A4000 could be hooked into a VGA monitor for the
             | flickerless experience. The caveat was that the flicker-
             | free display modes were added on top of old ones, which
             | meant that, while you could run Workbench and most
             | applications on the VGA monitor, all games ran in the
             | obsolete PAL modes your VGA display couldn't handle. This
             | created a market for niche dual-mode displays, which solved
             | the problem, but were a bit pricey.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | It might have had a rocky transition, but it was also very
         | badly mismanaged by Commodore.
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | The article links to the "no copy?" site:
       | http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/ which was highly influential in its
       | own time...
       | 
       | Demos are ultimately about impressing, also copying without being
       | seen as copying - if you literally copy/paste other people's
       | stuff, that makes you "lame", but if you quote/reference it, if
       | you one-up it - if your rivals put out a demo with 200 bobs, you
       | put out one with 240 bobs - then you look cool and people look up
       | to you.
       | 
       | I don't think many people would be too concerned that Amiga
       | musicians sampled presets of existing synths before putting those
       | sounds to use in an original composition that fits the Amiga's
       | hardware limits. And they would think it _amazing_ if you could
       | cover a well-known tune with any kind of fidelity in those tight
       | memory limits.
       | 
       | I don't think many people are upset if coders reverse-engineer
       | their rivals and they all share among the many hardware tricks
       | you can do - because there's always someone looking to go one
       | step further and is experimenting to find yet another new trick.
       | 
       | And finally, graphics artists weren't exactly penalised for re-
       | drawing a Boris Vallejo by hand - it was difficult to do, and
       | "the scene" liked those sorts of pictures (i.e. naked chicks and
       | fantasy art).
       | 
       | Effectively there was not just "this is my original art and it's
       | on message", but also "I _can_ copy this well-known art, because
       | i 'm technically capable enough to do it, and you're not". And
       | like the generative AI is doing today, or the camera did to
       | paintings... back in the 1990s, scanners and photo editing
       | software lowered the bar so much that even talentless fools could
       | just scan in an image, rather than have the technical skills to
       | reproduce it by hand, taking away what was otherwise a good
       | channel for showing you had talent and others didn't.
        
         | eru wrote:
         | Yes. Of course, there's plenty of skill to be developed in
         | photographing, too.
         | 
         | And nowadays there's still plenty of skill left in coercing our
         | limited AI generation tools to produce passable pictures, yet
         | alone great ones. (But the field is evolving so far, that the
         | achievements that still require skill constantly evolve, and
         | the skills required also still shift.)
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Boris and Julie are husband and wife, and both were bodybuilders,
       | which gave them plenty of ideas for their paintings of male and
       | female warriors with heroic physiques.
       | 
       | Fascinating couple. And rightly influential over fantasy art in
       | general.
       | 
       | Back in the day I used Borland Resource Workshop to pixel in an
       | image of Rafiki holding baby Simba over his head, using the Lion
       | King VHS cover as a reference. I can totally see where a
       | demoscene graphician, more talented than I, would do the same
       | with a Vallejo painting.
        
       | throwawayk7h wrote:
       | How did his art become the face of 80s fantasy? of GoldenAxe? of
       | D&D?
       | 
       | Anyone recommend other articles about him?
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | I never thought I'd ever have the occasion to mention this, but
         | Golden Axe's artwork is due to Dermot Power:
         | https://www.mobygames.com/game/199/golden-axe/promo/group-28...
         | 
         | I wonder if he was influenced by Vallejo.
         | 
         | https://dermotpower.com/
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | Well, the Golden Axe II cover was actually by Vallejo. The
           | article links to his known game covers:
           | https://vgdensetsu.net/2_BorisVallejo.html
        
         | surfingdino wrote:
         | The 80s had a different approach to nudity and body shapes. It
         | fit in with the zeitgeist.
        
           | LanceH wrote:
           | The 70's certainly did. The 80's is when everything started
           | to get covered up.
           | 
           | As to why? I think you'll find Sir Mix-a-lot has some answers
           | for you.
        
             | strix_varius wrote:
             | I was born in the mid 80s so I don't get this reference -
             | what do you mean?
             | 
             | (I was struck by how erotic the works in the original
             | article were. They would nearly all be censored out of any
             | big name AI today... Which seems kind of a pity)
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | The origin of the whole style seems to have been Frank Frazetta
         | doing illustrations for pulp serials of _Conan_ and _John
         | Carter of Mars_ , then book covers for _Conan_ , then Gygax
         | reads a whole load of pulp novels including Conan and builds a
         | game system to play the adventures of those novels. Vallejo
         | also did Conan art, and it seems his first book cover was for
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Barbarian
         | 
         | There is a "Borisography" online if you want to explore his
         | work.
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | Influence of Vallejo and Julie Bell cannot be underestimated on
       | fantasy illustration. Personally, when I studied anatomy for
       | animation work I did back when I was still doing he was a big
       | part of it, even though his work did incline more towards
       | bodybuilding kind of types. Stylistically though, big influence
       | on fantasy. Sorayama was mentioned as well. Again, personally it
       | was: Burne Hogarth, Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo and Julie Bell,
       | Luis Royo, Sorayama. Even they're not of same period, I group
       | them together as major influence and study sources.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Brothers Hildebrandt, Jean Giraud, Richard Corben....
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | But not Darrel K. Sweet[0] (one of the more published
           | artists). His people looked like bobbleheads. He wasn't
           | really so good at getting the human form right.
           | 
           | But he was painfully detailed, and probably pretty reliable,
           | so he got a lot of work.
           | 
           | My fave for the human form, was Frank Frazetta[1]. He
           | actually had a fairly classical bent to his work, and was
           | probably an inspiration for Vallejo.
           | 
           | Vallejo's people are perfect and beautiful, but always look
           | like they are posing. Frazetta's people are constantly in
           | motion.
           | 
           | Old mulletheads will probably remember the cover of the first
           | Molly Hatchet album[2].
           | 
           | I also enjoyed Stephen Hickman[3].
           | 
           | But probably, my absolute best inspiration was Roger Dean[4].
           | His figures weren't always that great, but his imagination
           | was amazing.
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_K._Sweet
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Frazetta
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Hatchet_(album)#/medi
           | a/F...
           | 
           | [3] https://ixgallery.com/artists/stephenhickman/
           | 
           | [4] https://www.rogerdean.com
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | I had forgotten about Sweet -- yeah he was everywhere with
             | his awkward looking artwork. I kind of loathe his color
             | palette. (I loathe Vallejo's as well though.)
        
             | Keyframe wrote:
             | I always felt Vallejo's figures pumped up for their figures
             | vs Frazetta's worked for theirs.
        
               | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
               | That's a really good way of putting it.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | > _when I studied anatomy ... group them together as major
         | influence and study sources_
         | 
         | For a modern (born late 70s) counterpart with deeply classical
         | influences, consider adding Roberto Ferri to your study
         | sources:
         | 
         | https://www.robertoferri.net/gallery/
         | 
         | Studies: https://www.robertoferri.net/gallery-studi/
         | 
         | Drawings: https://www.robertoferri.net/gallery-disegni/
         | 
         | Paintings: https://www.robertoferri.net/gallery-solodipinti/
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | For a more modern approach, try using "I Can't Believe It's Not
       | Photography" with a prompt including "in the style of Boris
       | Vallejo".
        
         | stonethrowaway wrote:
         | Based Mr. Nagle dialing in the bants.
        
       | voidUpdate wrote:
       | > "featuring idealistically rendered warriors and princesses,
       | muscular and scantily clad (but not indecent)"
       | 
       | Picture a couple of lines later shows two completely naked women.
       | Might be considered "indecent"
        
         | black_knight wrote:
         | I don't think naked bodies are widely considered indecent in
         | art. That's just the puritans.
         | 
         | I think the line is usually drawn around explicitly sexual
         | acts.
         | 
         | (I also don't believe being indecent is necessarily a bad thing
         | in art. It is sometimes just another effect which can be used.)
        
           | veunes wrote:
           | Which can be a powerful tool to provoke
        
         | lcrz wrote:
         | This comment exemplifies the puritanical view that nakedness is
         | somehow bad or impure.
         | 
         | Notice that the men in the paintings of Vallejo are also almost
         | completely naked, hacking away at monsters with large weapons.
         | Yet you did not point to them and say they were indecent.
         | 
         | I really hope that the rest of the world doesn't take over the
         | sex/violence sensitivities as are prevalent in the US.
        
           | throwawayk7h wrote:
           | Ok but quite a lot of these naked women aren't merely
           | unclothed, they're definitely suggestively and even
           | erotically drawn.
        
             | black_knight wrote:
             | Yes? This is fantasy art, not an anatomy book.
        
           | VoodooJuJu wrote:
           | Modesty is a virtue shared by many cultures throughout the
           | world. It is not exclusive to the US or Puritans. And the US
           | is not a cultural monolith. Millions of people in the US do
           | not hold modesty as a virtue.
        
             | black_knight wrote:
             | It is true that modesty is not an exclusively US puritan
             | ideal, but the US has a disproportionately strong cultural
             | influence on other societies.
             | 
             | In my neck of the woods we are much more relaxed about
             | nakedness, and find the scandals in the US around this
             | topic amusing. But for instance the lengths at which for
             | instance facebook goes to to avoid nipples and penises
             | feels more like an overstep in cultural freedom.
        
               | ogurechny wrote:
               | Facepook is just another textbook example of bureaucracy
               | breaking loose. Companies that give them money (for ads)
               | declare that "content" (i. e. everything that exists in
               | this world) can be "SFW" and "NSFW", and they only want
               | the former. Ergo, women don't have breasts. End of story.
               | All the excuses and exceptions corporate human robots
               | invent afterwards are just irrelevant icing on the cake.
               | 
               | It would be fine to just ignore that stupidity, but
               | people who spend time in that hellish environment adapt
               | to it, and actually start to believe that there is some
               | deep meaning to the rituals they have to make, and even
               | invent their own explanations.
        
               | black_knight wrote:
               | Is the misspelling of FB an intentional Russian joke? I
               | haven't heard that one before, but I can probably not
               | unhear it the next time I hear a Russian speaker say that
               | word.
        
               | ogurechny wrote:
               | Sorry, that line was glued to my screen awaiting
               | transmission, one letter fell down, then some illiterate
               | peasant fixed it.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | "Modesty" is culturally defined in the first place. What
             | you would consider "modest" today often would be extremely
             | immodest a century ago. And, conversely, some societies
             | don't consider nudity to be immodest in and of itself.
        
           | pksebben wrote:
           | I wish we'd drop it ourselves. It's excruciating living
           | amongst people who will pick up torches and pitchforks when
           | anyone under 18 is remotely exposed to sexual content, but
           | shrug and look stupid when that same cohort goes on a
           | shooting spree.
        
           | ogurechny wrote:
           | Attributing it all to puritans is misleading and even
           | anachronistic. A direct link would be possible at the time
           | when the phrase "puritanism sells" made sense, but a number
           | of generations have alreafy been born into the "sex sells"
           | world.
           | 
           | So there's a country with a giant porn industry, but at the
           | same time newspapers are full of stories about "sexual
           | predators" hiding under every bush, and someone's naked
           | breast is considered worthy of being turned into a "national
           | scandal". Intuition hints that one is intertwined with
           | another.
           | 
           | When people from elsewhere hear about gender neutral
           | bathhouse (formerly "common village/family bathhouse", or
           | simply "a river"), they picture themselves asking a granny
           | how's steam in the sauna. In certain countries, they
           | immediately think of some kind of orgy instead (based on
           | media descriptions and fantasies). And certain people of
           | limited wit even try to reenact them in reality, with
           | pathetic results.
           | 
           | Specific social convention makes people gasp, roll their
           | eyes, and hide the children when they see someone without
           | clothes, not their strict moral principles. It is highly
           | unlikely that it will disappear by itself. On the contrary,
           | there are forces that benefit from it. The aforementioned
           | porn industry have successfully used commoners' fears to ban
           | non-corporate-produced wanking materials from the biggest
           | websites. Not even nature is allowed to compete with
           | exclusive providers of images of sexual nature to the
           | consumers.
        
           | LanceH wrote:
           | Not just puritans, but the other extreme as well will say it
           | is objectification.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | This is a very big Americanism that's not common elsewhere, if
         | you look at classical art anywhere, you'll see naked bodies
         | galore.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | The middle east has a lot of puritans, too.
        
         | HelloNurse wrote:
         | They are riding dragons, not doing anything indecent.
        
       | veunes wrote:
       | Really interesting article. Interesting to know how one artist's
       | vision can ripple through different artistic mediums
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | I used to be a teenage demoscene graphics artist back in the
       | waning days of the Amiga and earliest days of Windows-based
       | demos.
       | 
       | Vallejo was definitely a popular source and influence. But
       | demoscene graphics were really more of a technical competition
       | than expressive art. The participants were teenagers -- it was
       | pretty obvious that most 16-year-old boys don't paint like
       | Frazetta while also having mastered the skills for rendering
       | those visions in 32 colors.
       | 
       | There was great appreciation for technical factors like palette
       | tricks, elegant hand-made dithering, and how to do antialiasing
       | without a soft look. It was pretty easy to tell if an image was
       | actually hand-pixeled vs. an overpainted scan. On a 320*240
       | image, every detail is conspicuous. You quickly develop an eye
       | for the hand-made detail.
       | 
       | I took a quick look at my old hand-pixelled images to see if
       | there's a Vallejo. I never did the straight-up fantasy pictures,
       | but I think the large sabretooth in this drawing must be from a
       | fantasy painting:
       | 
       | https://anioni.com/pauli/site1999/work/katka.html
       | 
       | I made this at age 16 in Deluxe Paint IIe on the PC, so it's got
       | the full 256-color palette. The somewhat random color explosions
       | on the sabretooth definitely show both palette excitement and
       | Vallejo influence.
       | 
       | The two cats are clearly from different sources. I didn't use
       | scans, just worked the outlines from the sources (maybe with the
       | help of tracing paper or something). It took around 40-50 hours
       | to hand-pixel an image like this. In the bottom-left corner I've
       | added the date and time when it was completed, clearly relieved
       | that it was finally finished...
       | 
       | This is the last hand-pixeled image I did in 1998:
       | 
       | https://anioni.com/pauli/site1999/work/seqjesus.html
       | 
       | It's a much better picture! By this time it was obvious that
       | pixel graphics are a relic, nobody seemed to care about my
       | antialiasing anymore, and I moved on.
        
         | royjacobs wrote:
         | The demoscene needs you back, Saffron!
        
           | skrebbel wrote:
           | Yeah it's about time y'all make a Contour final
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | Just need to find the floppy with the Direct3D 6.0 SDK...
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Hey, I remember that sabre tooth picture! I'm having a "meeting
         | a famous person moment" :-D
        
         | spookie wrote:
         | I wasnt alive when you did this but those are incredible!
         | 
         | There is something to be said about all these little tricks. I
         | think your comment about scans highlights this, meaning you do
         | loose character when the artist isn't in total control.
         | 
         | I suppose one could, at the time, have a more personal
         | technical style. Not sure how to word this and not even on a
         | good level on the topic to draw proper conclusions. I do draw
         | (mostly concept art, I'm good with humanoids though!), but its
         | not what I do for a living, just to help the team understanding
         | ideas for levels and such. I'm a programmer first and foremost.
        
         | myth_drannon wrote:
         | You started later but still made an everlasting impact with
         | masters like Ra, Made and others...
        
         | herodoturtle wrote:
         | Awesome work!
         | 
         | And shoutout to the demosceners here - mode13h for the win!
        
         | btbuildem wrote:
         | Wow I remember the floating baby head! Yah this was the waning
         | days for sure.. I think I'm a few years ahead of you. The demo
         | scene back then was something else, sneakernet and illicit
         | basement bazaars...
        
       | jkbyc wrote:
       | You might enjoy an entire talk on using a limited color palette
       | for graphics in early games and how it stimulated creativity
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcJ1Jvtef0
       | 
       | "In this GDC 2016 talk, Terrible Toybox's Mark Ferrari discusses
       | and demonstrate some of his techniques for drawing 8 bit game
       | graphics, including his celebrated methods for use of color
       | cycling and pallet shifting to create complex and realistic
       | background animation effects without frame-animation
       | 
       | GDC talks cover a range of developmental topics including game
       | design, programming, audio, visual arts, business management,
       | production, online games, and much more. We post a fresh GDC
       | video every weekday. Subscribe to the channel to stay on top of
       | regular updates, and check out GDC Vault for thousands of more
       | in-depth talks from our archives."
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | And a direct link to the canvas cycling demo mentioned in the
         | talk, as well as the blog describing it and a Q&A with Mark
         | Ferrari:
         | 
         | http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/
         | 
         | http://www.effectgames.com/effect/article-Old_School_Color_C...
         | 
         | http://www.effectgames.com/effect/article-Q_A_with_Mark_J_Fe...
         | 
         | Sadly, Joe Huckaby (who implemented the web-based demo) never
         | got around to finish the promised drawing tool. I wonder if any
         | other pixel art programs since then have added interface
         | support for color cycling.
        
         | agys wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing this incredible talk! Mark captures one
         | of the main topics in art making perfectly: the power of
         | limitations.
         | 
         | Also: "The environment was small enough that you could actually
         | think about it"
        
       | Geenkaas wrote:
       | Falling down the rabbit hole I stumbled on this link:
       | https://gamedev.city/
       | 
       | "I miss when people would just post gamedev resources on the
       | internet without thinking about algorithms or engagement. In
       | order to try to mitigate that, I decided to host my own link
       | aggregator website!" - Pedro Medeiros
       | 
       | This post has been an excellent waste of time and a great source
       | of inspiration. Thanks.
        
       | maxwell wrote:
       | Boris Vallejo vs. Frank Frazetta
       | 
       | https://www.sequentialartistsworkshop.org/blog/2015/09/3388
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | Sigh... completely different styles, plus the guy nitpicked
         | inferior BV images and compared them with FF's better works. BV
         | also had several visceral and dirty fight scenes with Conan,
         | yet the painter used some of BV's less detailed creations to
         | prove his point.
         | 
         | You do not have to put a number on everything and determine who
         | is "best" and why... This isn't a competition.
         | 
         | Everyone have different tastes. Both guys have unique style,
         | nothing to discuss about this.
        
       | ckozlowski wrote:
       | I was delighted to see this name pop up in my HN feed of all
       | places.
       | 
       | I've the joy of being married to a fantasy illustrator, and
       | through her I've been able to attend a number of fantasy art
       | conventions and shows. As I've seen a number of comments as well
       | as the article asking about such, I can say Boris is doing quite
       | well! He's a regular fixture at Illuxcon
       | (https://imaginativerealism.com/), a fantasy/sci-fi art show in
       | Reading, PA. (Along with Julie Bell)
       | 
       | He's a genuinely likable and modest guy. I remember a panel he
       | was on some years ago where the discussion was how to break into
       | the illustration market as a new artist. And more than anyone
       | else on the panel, Boris just seemed to _get it_. He 'll tell you
       | about how he had to get himself established coming from Peru with
       | nothing, and it's kept him humble all these years.
       | 
       | Cool guy.
       | 
       | Edit: Fixed country of origin, Thanks!
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | * from Peru
        
         | fullstop wrote:
         | Ha, Boris is my neighbor. I used to see him and Julie walking
         | their dog frequently, but it's mostly Julie now. I knew that
         | they were painters, but I didn't appreciate who they were until
         | recently and it's better that way. We say "Hi" to each other as
         | we pass and go do our own thing.
        
         | jokull wrote:
         | Link to your wife's work?
        
       | mrob wrote:
       | The high resolution but limited colors example looks like screen
       | printing. Screen printing involves squeezing ink through stencils
       | supported by a fine mesh. It can produce excellent detail, but
       | you need a separate stencil for each color so the number of
       | colors is usually low.
       | 
       | A lot of old arcade and pinball machines used screen printing for
       | the cabinet artwork. I like it better than standard CYMK printing
       | because it can produce more saturated colors.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_printing
        
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