[HN Gopher] Furnace - the biggest multi-system chiptune tracker ...
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Furnace - the biggest multi-system chiptune tracker ever made
Author : unleaded
Score : 210 points
Date : 2024-09-21 11:18 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| alister wrote:
| Definitions:
|
| Chiptune, also called 8-bit music, is a style of electronic music
| made using the programmable sound generator (PSG) sound chips or
| synthesizers in vintage arcade machines, computers and video game
| consoles. The term is commonly used to refer to tracker format
| music using extremely basic and small samples that an old
| computer or console could produce.[1]
|
| A music tracker (sometimes referred to as a tracker for short) is
| a type of music sequencer software for creating music.[2]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiptune
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker
| ttul wrote:
| For people who didn't grow up in the 1980s and 1990s, these
| will be key insights!
| timthorn wrote:
| And for people who did, but have never heard it referred to
| as chiptune nor trackers!
| RIMR wrote:
| "Chiptunes" is a broad term for any music with the same
| aesthetic quality as old video games and their chip-based
| music.
|
| Tracked music is music typically created with a tracker
| that emulates the qualities of chip-based music, keeping
| you bound with those constraints. However, some trackers
| are designed to run natively on older microcomputers and
| video game consoles, allowing those systems' audio
| processors to be used to create music.
|
| There is also a whole community around executable music,
| where the entire synthesizer is coded alongside the music
| itself.
| beagle3 wrote:
| Amiga trackers all used samples; whether they sound like
| chip tunes (that is, like a NES, a C-64, an AY-3-8912
| etc) or not depends on the instrument samples used.
|
| AFAIK, the thing that qualifies a music editor as a
| "tracker" is a tabular representation, rather than a
| score.
| timthorn wrote:
| So is there a difference between a tracker and a
| sequencer?
| tobr wrote:
| What I'm wondering is what they mean with "biggest", though.
| Largest binary? Most features? Highest resolution? Most users?
| kamray23 wrote:
| more than 3 chips, basically
| pwenzel wrote:
| Forget everything, we're doing 5 chips
| ilkke wrote:
| I'd assume it means that it supports more chips than
| deflemask https://www.deflemask.com/
| bartread wrote:
| This is pretty crazy - even the ZX Spectrum beeper is supported.
| Is there some Z80 player code allowing the music to be played on
| real hardware?
| mdp2021 wrote:
| > _even the ZX Spectrum beeper is supported_
|
| You know what we can do with 1-bit music, right? I.e. Tim
| Follin's _Agent X_ (
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T42WuUpBuHE ) or _Agent X II_ (
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNc_xczyGLc ) or _Chronos_ (
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-D24A_N4d4 ) or _Raw Recruit_
| ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl8dAVybwq8 ) or _Future
| Games_ ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orEXKOBIv_8 )...
|
| A modern attempt, the _ON and OFF_ album by Rich 'Tufty'
| Hollins ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nEfO4Yu7Mg )
| jim-jim-jim wrote:
| From the comments:
|
| > Say, we switch our signal at a rate of 440 Hz. Or any rate,
| as a matter of fact. One would assume that the signal is on
| for half of the time, and off the other half of the time
| (which is what's known as a square wave). But it doesn't need
| to be that way. We can also create a signal that's on for 1%
| of the time, and off 99% of the time. As long as we switch at
| 440 Hz, we still get a 440 Hz note. However, we now have a
| lot of space between the "on" pulses. Within that space, we
| can render a second train of pulses at a different frequency.
| The result will be that both frequencies are audible. This
| gives a very characteristic sound. This is pulse frequency
| modulation. Funny side node, that's actually how your brain
| cells communicate with each other. Anyway, Tim Follin's early
| works on ZX Spectrum are typical examples of that.
|
| I wish I could use my relative youth as an excuse here, but
| I'm afraid I don't quite understand what "on for 1% of the
| time" means. Like the envelope of the beep is extremely
| short? And then if you pulse at regular intervals, it creates
| a sustained tone? And then interleaving differently-spaced
| pulse sequences creates the illusion of polyphony? Or is it
| something fancier? Does the ZX have any notion of sample rate
| or is the signal not even digital?
| qwery wrote:
| > what "on for 1% of the time" means
|
| It's a description of the synthesised waveform. There's no
| envelope and sample rate isn't particularly meaningful as
| there are no samples or recording involved.
|
| The wave is a pulse/square wave -- 1 bit. The signal goes
| high/"on" at a frequency of e.g. 440 Hz. The 1% refers to
| the duty cycle[0] -- this is expressed as a percentage of
| the wave _period_ (1 / 440 Hz) that the signal remains
| high. So every cycle of a 1% pulse wave, for 0.01 / 440
| seconds the signal is high, then 0.99 / 440 seconds the
| signal is low.
|
| Changing the duty cycle can change the character of the
| tone, but the note/frequency is unaffected.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_cycle
| jim-jim-jim wrote:
| That clears it up a bit, thank you. To simulate 440hz and
| 220hz playing simultaneously, would the phase of the
| latter have to be offset?
| sim7c00 wrote:
| https://www.chibiakumas.com/z80/platform3.php#LessonP23
| if you are interested in the beeper and how to make sound
| on it :D it has few tips but can give an idea how basic
| the stuff is. appearently the 128k has a better chip. I
| am wholly unfamiliar with the platform tho so sorry if my
| comment is a bit off the rails :D
| smrq wrote:
| Specifically here I believe he is referring to the pulse
| width of the square wave, like you would see on many basic
| oscillators. A 50% setting would have the wave high for
| half of the cycle, then low for the other half
| (111110000011111000001111100000 etc). A 1% setting would
| have the wave high for 1% of the cycle, then low for the
| remaining 99% (something like
| 100000000010000000001000000000). This is still a 440Hz
| periodic signal, just with a somewhat different timbre.
| rsync wrote:
| Are there any sample tracks extant that utilize the broad range
| of chips that Furnace has ?
| sirwhinesalot wrote:
| Youtube is full of them! Search for Furnace Tracker and check
| out AshKirby's monster playlist.
| isaacn wrote:
| Looks awesome! But does it play s3m files? :-)
| Moru wrote:
| Isn't s3m a bit too modern for chip tunes? :-)
| alisonatwork wrote:
| Yes! XM and IT are coming too. This was the thing that helped
| it dislodge OpenMPT for me as a casual tracker for noodling
| around.
|
| OpenMPT obviously has much more accurate playback of PC era
| mods, but the UI of Furnace feels less awkward to me and
| reminds me more of composing in ST3/IT without being a
| completely backwards-looking clone like Schism.
| chrismorgan wrote:
| I wanted to try composing some music in this way and this style,
| but I found it hard to get started, being paralysed by choice.
| It's big, it's multi-system... but I just want to start with
| something decent. I'm not targeting any particular device, just
| making music. Sometimes simple, sometimes with more
| harmonisation, effects like wobble and pitch bend and such, but
| I'm not interested in things like sampling; mostly I just want
| something a bit more powerful than BeepBox. I know I'm being
| vague, but does anyone happen to have any suggestions and
| recommendations for which systems might work well?
|
| For a different project, I'd also like this sort of thing but
| with a Web Audio API-based player, potentially real-time
| scriptable rather than static. So ideally the perfect system
| would also be easy to use on the web.
| HelloNurse wrote:
| > I'm not targeting any particular device, just making music.
|
| Then think of the music first and then find a suitable target
| device and configuration: enough tracks and channels for the
| various parts, appropriate synthesis and effect possibilities
| (FM/PM, phase distortion and wavetables, good filters, LFOs,
| reverb and distortion...) for the timbres you intend to use, a
| sufficiently high bit depth and sample rate to avoid unwanted
| artifacts (or a sufficiently low bit depth and sample rate to
| cause wanted artifacts).
| chaosprint wrote:
| perhaps give https://glicol.org/ a try?
| snowram wrote:
| A classic for starting is the NES sound chip (Ricoh 2A03). It
| only has 5 channels and is very straightforward to use. FM
| chips like the one in the Megadrive or Commodore 64 have a way
| steeper learning curve in comparison.
| ilkke wrote:
| Agree NES is a good place to start. C64 SID is not FM at all,
| but agree it's not easy to learn.
| snowram wrote:
| SID chip does have some FM components to it, for exemple
| ring modulation or LPF/HPF. This is what makes the learning
| curve pretty high for it.
| mrob wrote:
| Ring modulation is a form of amplitude modulation, not
| frequency modulation. Filters are not modulation at all.
| thesuperbigfrog wrote:
| >> A classic for starting is the NES sound chip (Ricoh 2A03).
| It only has 5 channels and is very straightforward to use.
|
| Such a simple chip and yet it was capable of producing
| amazing music in the right hands. Tim Follin created some
| legendary game soundtracks with that chip:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzTDAgG4EXk
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_gObHt1uZA
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQlLl2j5THQ
| jstr_ wrote:
| Can't talk about Tim Follin and not talk about Plok!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peuTnilEv9g
|
| Feels very proto-Hotline Miami to me
| duskwuff wrote:
| Plok! was SNES, not NES, though. Very different audio
| hardware.
| snowram wrote:
| The Follin brothers used straightforward methods but took
| them to the extreme. Arpeggios? Double them and make them
| use complex chords. Triangle channel? Use it both as bass
| and drums. Note attack? Use the octave to simulate guitar
| sound. Wrap all that in prog rock composition and you get a
| very unique entry in the chiptune landscape.
| rob74 wrote:
| Calvin Harris famously used an Amiga 1200 for his first album (
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Harris#2006%E2%80%93200...
| ) and even had one on stage for the Brit Awards this year
| (https://www.retropassion.co.uk/at-the-brits-well-one-of-
| our-..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8vaccttxsg) -
| although I'm not sure to what extent it was actually used...
| dimatura wrote:
| Like other commenters said, I would just choose a single chip
| and limit yourself to that. That's pretty constrained by
| today's standards (arguably, even all of furnace tracker is
| rather limited compared to your typical modern DAW) - but still
| plenty to make great music. Which chipset? Maybe you can listen
| to tracks made with any of these and see which you like best
| (if you search for the chip name you'll probably find examples
| on youtube). Good ones are Gameboy (hugely popular thanks to
| gameboy-native software like LSDJ and nanoloop), YMF2612 (the
| Sega Genesis chip, primarily FM-based, so can be pretty
| modern), YMF262/OPL3(also FM, ubiquitous in old PCs), NES (very
| barebones, more so than gameboy), SID (the commodore chip,
| which was pretty ahead of its time in terms of sonic
| capabilities, has a cult following).
| kinduff wrote:
| This is a delight. I loved the intro, had a blast from the past
| with the keygen exes back when.
|
| Looks very sofisticated, gonna give it a go!
| MaanuAir wrote:
| These guys do this with real vintage hardware:
|
| http://theotherdays.net/
| wdfx wrote:
| *shameless self promo*
|
| Me too: https://doug.lon.dev/fourays
|
| and I have 2 units for sale here:
| https://reverb.com/uk/item/83277820-doug-lon-dev-fourays-pol...
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Not exactly chiptune, but I feel the Floppotron (
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-WakfBNHD0 ) is more or less
| in a straight line of descent from the ancients:
|
| https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20.
| ..
|
| Tymes: ...I found that if I gave a write command to the tape
| unit and then aborted the write command before it got past
| the interrecord gap, I could start and stop the tape as often
| as maybe 300 times a second, which is in the acoustic range.
| So you could make a lot of noise with those things.
|
| Hardy: He got them to play music.
|
| Tymes: So I wrote the Stars and Stripes Forever. I used the
| console speaker for the piccolo. It had a drum printer, which
| I used for the percussion. And I had a row of tape units all
| synchronized so that they were all pulsing together for the
| trombones.
|
| ...
|
| Tymes: We put the doors to the tape unit half way down so
| that they would radiate the sound really good. And you could
| feel it in your chest. It would go bom, bom, ba bam bom. The
| whole building would shake when that program ran.
|
| EDIT: a picture of this "expensive tracker" (~USD 30 million
| in 2024?) may be found in http://www.cap-
| lore.com/Hardware/steam_42-43.pdf
| Eiriksmal wrote:
| Treewave used something similar, to great effect, on his
| Cabana EP. Prominently here on Sleep:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKx8bZ5eq8
|
| He hacked up the firmware of a dotmatrix printer to send it
| commands from his Atari 2600 or 80286 Compaq to make music.
| "Sound is generated by the print head pins striking the
| paper and the sound is picked up by a tie-clip mic on the
| print head. By adjusting the frequency of the printing
| process in software, different pitches can be played (with
| about a two octave range.)"
|
| He thoughtfully includes all the source you need to do this
| to your own Epson LQ-500!
| https://www.qotile.net/dotmatrix.html
| mdp2021 wrote:
| This is what I wanted:
|
| > _mix and match sound chips! // over 200 ready to use presets
| from computers, game consoles and arcade boards... // ...or
| create your own presets - up to 32 chips or a total of 128
| channels_
|
| Do you want a SID chip based system with as many channels as you
| want? There you are...
| velo_aprx wrote:
| A cool feature for sure, but, kind of ruins the whole concept
| of that a chiptune is. For me its about the limitation of the
| system. If that is not one of the core reasons you are into
| chiptunes you might as well use whatever you like to make music
| that go plipediblop. (edit): Then again, i have always
| considered mod and xms that use samples and sound like
| chiptunes to also be chiptunes even though they fall outside of
| the true definition.
| in_a_hole wrote:
| It's nice to have all the limitations in one box, maximal
| minimalism.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| You are confusing two dimensions: being masterful and cunning
| in the use of an instrument, and fully expressing creativity.
| The first thrives on limitations, for the second limitations
| are unwanted.
|
| You can create a masterpiece with a stick and a pebble - but
| not _all_ masterpieces.
| Terr_ wrote:
| > a masterpiece with a stick and a pebble
|
| "Baroque Pickaxe Handel and Rock (A Miner)"
| Netcob wrote:
| I sometimes feel that way about pixel art in modern games,
| but maybe that's a bit like getting angry at people playing
| checkers for using a chessboard wrong.
|
| For some people it's about being creative within the very
| narrow bounds of a specific system, for others it's about
| using a very specific style that originated within those
| bounds. In order to use that style you still need a good way
| to simulate thouse systems.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| For others (for those who brought us the best), it is
| continuing a path which continuously overcomes itself (so,
| the style is just a side effect of the medium).
|
| Apex of Punk music was The Strangler's _Golden Brown_.
| NobodyNada wrote:
| There's a lot of artists who write music that's inspired by
| chiptune or has chiptune instruments but is not pure chiptune
| -- they use modern production techniques, don't limit
| themselves to specific hardware, and often combine chiptune
| elements with modern instruments.
|
| I agree that there's something special about music composed
| with the limitations of a platform in mind, but there's also
| something special about music that's not constrained by these
| limitations and just uses chiptune hardware as an audio
| production tool. They both have their place, some people will
| prefer one or the other, and that's fine. Making a tracker
| configurable like this makes it useful for both times of
| music.
|
| Some examples of "unconstrained" chiptune-style artists:
|
| Anamanaguchi: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cppRxHfmY403D
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=gpzAaJ1ikZ0
|
| Lindsay Lowend: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EZjt9Jl3GGA
|
| Fearofdark: https://youtube.com/watch?v=R4N_YrnUTC4
| mdp2021 wrote:
| > _The Elektron SidStation is a synthesizer and sampler
| designed by Elektron in 2001. It is based on the classic
| Commodore 64 SID chip, which was used in the Commodore 64
| home computer. It has been used by a variety of artists,
| including Aphex Twin, Daft Punk, and The Prodigy_
|
| https://synthpedia.net/elektron/sidstation/
|
| # Aphex Twin - Vordhosbn
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYrQC-jWMFM
| rollcat wrote:
| > A cool feature for sure, but, kind of ruins the whole
| concept of that a chiptune is.
|
| It's called a band, or an orchestra. Or a guitar effect. Or
| using a brush instead of a stick to play the drums. Or
| defretting a guitar. Or a happy accident during recording
| that produces a unique tone.
|
| An instrument has a limitation. Artist can work with, or
| around the limitation. It may no longer be "chiptune as you
| know it", but that's essentially how new genres are born -
| you can't discriminate creativity.
| foft wrote:
| Is it possible to use this to make songs for multiple chips at
| once?
|
| In the pokeymax and sidmax projects I have dual pokey, dual sid,
| dual ym2149 and a simple dma sample engine available. It would be
| great to make some songs using all of them for their strengths at
| the same time.
| lloeki wrote:
| README: Features: [...] -
| mix and match sound chips!
| fuhsnn wrote:
| I'll give the benefit of doubt in accuracy for chip emulations
| not executed in their real world clock rate, which would be quite
| expansive to do real-time. But as a creative environment, this is
| pure fun!
| superdisk wrote:
| This thing is truly a technical marvel and a massive
| accomplishment by the developer. He works tirelessly and at one
| point closed out every one of the hundreds of issues filed on the
| repo before it's 0.6 release. The number of supported chips and
| interacting features is unparalleled by anything else.
| sim7c00 wrote:
| this is really epic. Little sad to see the instruments aren't
| vsti, but i guess that's totally understadable for such a project
| :D. work daily with Renoise tracker and was hoping to grab some
| haha!. Love trackers! <3 its the best way to make digital music!
|
| Very epic project and a crazy achievement to make such a complete
| and huge tracker for chiptunes!
| djdrone wrote:
| I tried Furnace Tracker earlier this year. I always wanted to
| learn more about using trackers to create chiptunes. I followed a
| tutorial from Button Masher:
|
| How to Learn Chiptune Trackers
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37XuOLz0jw
|
| The tutorial uses Furnace. It provides a great overview of the
| components, and then guides you through a hands-on exercise of
| transcribing an existing demo. This was a nice way to get more
| familiar with Furnace. Button Masher provides some demos to use,
| but also there are many demos at the furnace github project:
|
| https://github.com/tildearrow/furnace/tree/master/demos
| klez wrote:
| Speaking of tracker music, I can't not mention "Professional
| Trackers" by Hoffman & Daytripper. Not only because the music is
| cool but because of what they did visually.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ErmKpTcFA
|
| Even better, if you have a tracker that lets you see a whole
| patch at once (worked fine with milkytracker) download the MOD
| and play it directly in the tracker
|
| https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
| shidoshi wrote:
| Lots of comments herein cover things I would otherwise post, so
| I'll just say this is great fun. Love that it's FOSS. Now,
| everyone go make some music!
| spockz wrote:
| Here I was, from the title alone, under the impression that this
| was something created to be able to track different cars/engines
| based on their individual chip tuning (performance enchantments
| etc.). Boy was I wrong.
| RunSet wrote:
| I thought it was going to be a massively collaborative chiptune
| tracker.
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