[HN Gopher] Mistral Remove "Committing to open models" from thei...
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       Mistral Remove "Committing to open models" from their website
        
       Author : smy20011
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2024-02-26 21:36 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | samketchup wrote:
       | I hope they keep tweeting magnet links for model releases :(
        
       | cdme wrote:
       | Time to build a moat.
        
         | jampekka wrote:
         | Competition is for losers.
        
       | firebaze wrote:
       | good thing that
       | https://huggingface.co/TheBloke/dolphin-2_2-yi-34b-GGUF surpasses
       | even Mixtral MoE. Let's hope this continues.
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | Waiting until Huggingface pulls the same stunt. "Oh, all those
         | models and datasets you uploaded? They're ours now. Thanks! ^_^
         | "
        
         | orra wrote:
         | I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm. There are open source
         | Dolphin models, but the ones based on Yi are not, because Yi is
         | not.
        
       | omeze wrote:
       | Seems like "open source" as a marketing tactic (or perhaps
       | strategy, if they do continue to release open models) has peaked.
       | I'm not really complaining, we get a lot of stuff for free as
       | engineers (especially software), but it does seem different for a
       | company to release an open model without any future commitments
       | (e.g. Google) vs making open weights your raison d'etre and then
       | pivoting quite quickly. The first feels transactional but honest,
       | and the other a bit too... machiavellian?
       | 
       | I do think it's too soon to pass judgement; this could just be a
       | normal "freemium" strategy from days old, where you just pay up
       | if you like the smaller/cheaper/free versions of their models.
        
         | kromem wrote:
         | I think we'll continue to see _n_ -1 open models used to build
         | momentum to closed _n_ models for the foreseeable future.
         | 
         | Which is fine, as it will accelerate to diminishing returns on
         | the _+1_ difference.
        
       | chasd00 wrote:
       | Maybe it was required per the Microsoft investment. I wouldn't be
       | surprised.
        
         | jampekka wrote:
         | That company does try its very best to keep computing crappy.
        
         | aunty_helen wrote:
         | If you put 13 billion into a moat to be threatened by an open
         | source competitor what would you do?
         | 
         | An extra billion or two to protect the interest of your
         | trillion dollar company seems well worth it.
        
       | SirensOfTitan wrote:
       | That's a shame--we cannot allow a handful of companies and VCs to
       | capture most of the value of AI, especially if it actually starts
       | replacing human jobs, it'll just accelerate wealth inequality and
       | social unrest.
        
         | jauntywundrkind wrote:
         | The economic prospects are grim. Couple that with creating a
         | world where humanity is both at the whim of these tuning
         | systems, and fundamentally unable to observe and learn about
         | this golem, where IP keeps it as magic in our world: it like
         | the most infernal of machines.
        
       | ysofunny wrote:
       | I cannot let me get tired of repeating this:
       | 
       | the underlying fundamental problem is that capitalism does not
       | play nice with digital assets.
       | 
       | an AI model is a very valuable digital asset right now, so
       | there's a covert war being fought over public access to this.
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | The real fundamental problem is that "digital assets" are
         | bullshit.
         | 
         | An AI model is literally constructed by explicitly
         | disrespecting copyright. The idea that a company gets to turn
         | around and demand respect for their AI model's copyright is
         | patently absurd.
        
           | mlazos wrote:
           | I feel like this can be trivially worked around by fine
           | tuning from the initially copyrighted weights. They're not
           | demanding copyright, they're just keeping them secret. If
           | Meta keeps releasing high quality open source models, I don't
           | expect the closed source models to have an advantage for
           | long.
        
         | jampekka wrote:
         | Intellectual property itself is a bad concept. Capitalism works
         | for squeezing margins for bulk commodity production (largely on
         | the expence of the worker), but for zero-marginal cost stuff
         | it's a huge hinderance for progress.
        
           | candiodari wrote:
           | But if you have cloud based models ... same with mainframes
           | 30-40 years ago ... it doesn't matter. Because the power
           | cloud gives to the model owners is 10x more than the
           | strictest intellectual property laws do.
           | 
           | I don't believe, for example, that there's any intellectual
           | property law that would let me yoink my intellectual property
           | from you for any reason after you've bought and paid for it.
           | 
           | In other words: I think the capitalism discussion is kind of
           | pointless here. Capitalism isn't what gives these companies
           | power. It's the cloud. Mainframe computing 2.0.
        
       | MattDaEskimo wrote:
       | It seems to me that large software companies often adopt an open-
       | source approach initially to attract enthusiasts and stand out
       | from leading competitors, but tend to adopt similar philosophies
       | as their rivals once they achieve significant recognition or
       | investment.
       | 
       | It's all a marketing tactic, and I ain't for it.
        
         | gwern wrote:
         | You can see this as an endgame of 'commoditize your complement'
         | (https://gwern.net/complement): you're happy to contribute to
         | commodification while _you_ are the small scrappy player, but
         | at some point, if you are really successful, you will want to
         | pull up the ladder after yourself, as it were.
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | Mistral just doesn't seem like an interesting company to me any
       | more.
       | 
       | They started off as the kind of people who released their models
       | as magnet links and made them actually user-aligned instead of
       | California-aligned. This is what I like to see from an AI
       | company. Now, their models are no different from Open AI,
       | Anthropic, Google, Meta and everybody else.
        
         | vitorgrs wrote:
         | Meta actually releases the weights though (for now)
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Could you expand more on what you mean by "California-aligned"
         | (especially if you are thinking beyond AI models, though that
         | alone could be interesting).
        
           | tazu wrote:
           | I assume they mean "generate images of ethnically diverse
           | Nazis"[1].
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/technology/google-
           | gemini-...
        
         | impossiblefork wrote:
         | But surely they're still remain as they were, i.e. not
         | California aligned?
        
       | summerlight wrote:
       | Model developments have become seriously capital intensive
       | endeavors. Probably Mistral found themselves cornered by this
       | commitment and they won't be able to secure any serious
       | investments without changing this stance, MSFT in this case.
        
       | anonym29 wrote:
       | Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39511530
        
       | fuddle wrote:
       | Damn, I was hoping Mistral would carry to open source torch for
       | AI. I might be forced to create an actual open source AI company.
        
       | andy99 wrote:
       | From reddit:                 Chinese models seem to be the last
       | hope now, LOL.
       | 
       | It's going to be really interesting as two poles or power develop
       | geopolitically, if the west or whatever you call it has to look
       | to China or what we (the west) would consider the pole we look
       | down on, for actually "free" ML models.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-26 23:00 UTC)