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Log in or sign up in seconds.| * English [ ][] [ ]limit my search to r/LocalLLaMA use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" url:text search for "text" in url selftext:text search for "text" in self post contents self:yes (or self:no) include (or exclude) self posts nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no) include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog see the search faq for details. advanced search: by author, subreddit... this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024 203 points (91% upvoted) shortlink: [https://redd.it/1b0o] [ ][ ] [ ]remember mereset password login Submit a new link Submit a new text post Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. get reddit premium LocalLLaMA joinleave122,177 readers 2,205 users here now --------------------------------------------------------------------- r/LocalLLaMA A subreddit to discuss about Llama, the family of large language models created by Meta AI. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Useful Links Subreddit rules Index resources Search by flair +Discussion +Tutorial | Guide +New Model +News +Other a community for 11 months MODERATORS * message the mods discussions in r/LocalLLaMA <> X 202 * 65 comments [95Se-37P] Top 10 Betrayals in Anime History 216 * 119 comments Microsoft partners with Mistral in second AI deal beyond OpenAI 112 * 78 comments In defense of Mistral AI 254 * 150 comments Au Large | Mistral AI | Mistral Large is our flagship model, with top-tier reasoning capacities. It is also available on Azure AI 113 * 21 comments [LaQYvPwa] Gemma finetuning 243% faster, uses 58% less VRAM 25 * 7 comments [UfXQSPPV] IBM Writes a recap on what we do and don't know about LLaMA-3. Looks like they're just as excited as us! 17 * 3 comments Silent Release: Llama2 7B on Snapdragon Gen2 with 8 tok/s 89 * 21 comments GPTFast: Accelerate your Hugging Face Transformers 6-7x. Native to Hugging Face and PyTorch. 17 * 2 comments R2R - Open-source framework for production-grade RAG * 2 comments Supporting Mixtral in gpt-fast through torch.compile - faster decoding than any non-Groq endpoint(!) Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 202 203 204 [95Se-37P] Top 10 Betrayals in Anime HistoryNews (old.reddit.com) submitted 4 hours ago by xadiant * 65 comments * share * save * hide * report [sgnbs3g1zykc1] [wvh98ul1zykc1] * Previous * Next * Back to Grid View [sgnbs3g1zykc1] * Previous * Next * Back to Grid View [wvh98ul1zykc1] all 65 comments sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [-]genshiryoku 77 points78 points79 points 3 hours ago (3 children) Mistral.ai changing their website to scrub any mention of their obligation to the open source community makes me think they will never release an open source model ever again. I disagree with the comments here that say to give them the benefit of the doubt. You don't overhaul your entire website to remove mentions of your dedication to open models if you still plan to release more in the future. They looked at the PR fallout it would give them and decided it was worth it. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]kik0sama 8 points9 points10 points 1 hour ago (1 child) I get it's a shock for the OS community, but just as OpenAI went close, OS did not stop with them, it will continue and move somewhere else. Mistral did their part, MoE was a great addition to the OS community but they pulled an OpenAI, can't blame them for taking that fat MS cheque. There will be a next Mistral and the cycle will continue, this is the endless cycle of OS (coming from the Android world where many of such stories). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]candre23koboldcpp 12 points13 points14 points 1 hour ago (0 children) I'm shocked that anybody is shocked. Of course they'll shut it down as soon as they need to start making money. Same as it ever was. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]n0change -1 points0 points1 point 8 minutes ago (0 children) They have an obligation to the open source community why? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]sb5550 54 points55 points56 points 4 hours ago (6 children) Chinese models seem to be the last hope now, LOL. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]lolwutdo 23 points24 points25 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Yup, we need Qwen 72b 2.0 with GQA * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]pseudonerv 3 points4 points5 points 40 minutes ago (0 children) There's still hope from Mark&Yann. Satya won't be able to buy them out. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]bearbarebere 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (3 children) I don't get it. What does this post mean? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Low-Coffee-4749 22 points23 points24 points 1 hour ago (1 child) Mistral is backing off from their open source approach. There are open source models coming out of China. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]bearbarebere 2 points3 points4 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Awww man :( * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 67 points68 points69 points 4 hours ago (22 children) I'm willing to bet all of the models that approach GPT4 capabilities will also adopt closed business models. Llama-3 will follow soon. I don't agree with it, of course, but that's reality. People need to be careful with the groups they trust. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Desm0nt 22 points23 points24 points 4 hours ago (5 children) They can be "open for non-commercial use". Only few people have hardware suitable for GTP4-level model, so they won't lose money on this move, but they will gain in reputation and hype. And it seems to me that this is exactly what Meta is aiming for, as it is very hard to get high and get into media being just "another GPT4 under API", but much easier being "a fighter for freedom and independent AGI, unlike..." * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 7 points8 points9 points 4 hours ago (3 children) With the case of Meta (aka Facebook), their business model is utilizing social media and harvesting user data. Any improvements made to their models helps them more effectively harvest and utilize that data. Don't mistake it for wanting "reputation." Reputation alone does not add value. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Desm0nt 2 points3 points4 points 4 hours ago (1 child) Reputation gives frequent exposure to Media, which gives prominence and recognition among both potential investors and potential clients. Which directly converts into money. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 4 points5 points6 points 4 hours ago* (0 children) Facebook is not a small startup that is courting individual investors or clients though. Nearly everything Facebook has done can be tied back to their core business model of harvesting and utilizing user data. Their valuation comes from their extremely large userbase and their ability to utilize people's private data for targeted ads and who knows what else... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Cyberpunk_Cephalopod 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (0 children) Breathing also helps them in that quest, doesn't make breathing bad. Also of course they want reputation, they're competing for MLe talent with everyone else. Reputation is key. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Radiant_Dog1937 24 points25 points26 points 4 hours ago (5 children) Becoming just another GPT4, when GPT exist isn't going to allow them to differentiate themselves and is a losing strategy. It's like people who were competing in the video generation space and just lost they're entire business model to Sora. GPT5 will be the new benchmark, after they've invested in datacenters that can't match the performance of the next SOTA. The idea that they'd try to compete with OpenAI on it's own turf is crazy, imo. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 4 points5 points6 points 4 hours ago (3 children) It would be a losing strategy if you were trying to be a primarily AI company. Meta(Facebook) is a social media company. They don't need to beat GPT4. They need a private model good enough to mine their vast collection of user data. The open source community has been doing a good job of helping Meta catch up for free. What incentive do they have to keep it open when they have achieved their goal? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]ethereal_intellect 6 points7 points8 points 2 hours ago (1 child) This is mistral though right? I thought mistral was it's own model from scratch? It's so hard to follow sometimes * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (0 children) I was referring to llama-3. Mistral is its own, yes. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Radiant_Dog1937 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Alot of development gets outsourced to the open-source community which reduces their overhead. Open AI devotes significant staff to doing everything in house and will do it better because all their resources are focused on AI. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Caffeine_Monster 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Becoming just another GPT4, when GPT exist isn't going to allow them to differentiate themselves and is a losing strategy It's amusing how often we see this in innovative or emerging markets. This has been AMD's strategy to fight NVIDIA for a while in HPC - I'm still trying to understand the mental gymnastics required to think CUDA emulation in RoCM will make them competitive. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]FullOf_Bad_Ideas 10 points11 points12 points 3 hours ago (3 children) I don't think llama 3 will follow. Mark talked about it on a podcast a week or few ago, he really believes in open source and they already have the money, so it's not as essential for them to keep weights closed. Mark, his AI team and Chinese companies are best bets right now. Here's the whole podcast. https://youtu.be/xQqsvRHjas4?feature=shared * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [+]3ntrope comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 2 hours ago (2 children) Perhaps, but do consider that this is Facebook, the company that brought you Cambridge Analytica and is known for targeted misinformation campaigns. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]terp-bick 9 points10 points11 points 1 hour ago (1 child) it's also the company that released react, pytorch and llama2. I think only time can tell whether there will be a llama3 and if it is open weights. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope -2 points-1 points0 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Those libraries would not have much value without the active communities utilizing them and sharing knowledge. If they were commercial they would not be nearly as impactful. Llama2 has been an interesting learning tool, but its still a toy compared to GPT4. A GPT4 level model on the other hand would be commercializable and immediately valuable for a company sitting on a mountain of user data. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Trivale 2 points3 points4 points 3 hours ago (5 children) What evidence do you have of this? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (4 children) It's an educated guess. Look at how Facebook handled VR. They acquired a relatively open PC VR company (Oculus) and proceeded to pivot all VR work to their closed propriety mobile hardware. It helped their user data harvesting goals, but ultimately crippled progress with VR development. It's naive to think they wont do the same when their AI models gain an advantage. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Trivale 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (1 child) So... none? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope 0 points1 point2 points 7 minutes ago (0 children) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]krste1point0 1 point2 points3 points 27 minutes ago (1 child) Meta crippled progress with VR development? The company spending billions of dollars on VR RD crippled progress with VR development? That just might be a hot take. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]3ntrope -2 points-1 points0 points 10 minutes ago (0 children) You have not been paying attention then. It's been 10 years since Facebook acquired Oculus, yet the technology they have shipped is still vastly inferior to 1st gen Apple VR hardware. Billions of dollars wasted... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]bornforspace 14 points15 points16 points 3 hours ago (3 children) As sad as it is, it doesn't mean that it is guaranteed that no more open source models will follow. There is still a possibility .. or maybe I'm coping? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]teor 9 points10 points11 points 1 hour ago (0 children) maybe I'm coping? Probably. At best they maybe will update their current stuff. So Mistral/ Mixtral Instruct 0.3 / 0.2 or something. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [+]TR_Alencar comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 3 hours ago (1 child) Mixtral was released so recently that I believe there is a big overreaction in the community. Give them some time before judging, I don't know, six months? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]lolwutdo 9 points10 points11 points 2 hours ago (0 children) Nah, if Mistral Small beats Mixtral which they plan to sell via API; we're not going to be seeing anything better coming out from them. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]phenotype001 7 points8 points9 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Now I just hope Llama 3 is good and open. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]unemployed_capitalAlpaca 5 points6 points7 points 2 hours ago (1 child) I would like to see the new Mistral-Small released at least. I can understand the justification in not releasing stuff bigger than 70b, because VC funded Inference as a service companies will just eat your margins. I think Together selling Mixtral for like 70% off really hurt them. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]terp-bick 4 points5 points6 points 1 hour ago (0 children) they changed the API names of all released models to open-, (eg. open-mistral-7B), so i doubt mistral ever releases small https://docs.mistral.ai/platform/changelog/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]a_beautiful_rhind 3 points4 points5 points 1 hour ago (0 children) I'm not going to start shitting on them just yet. But if that keeps up yea.. Here is hoping we get some more miqus "released" at least. Smacks of Character.ai removing any mention of "companions", silently, when doing a redesign. Oh and don't forget the current legal scrutiny in Europe and now the US. Leave your comment on their proposal or there won't be ANY more open models. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Caladan23 2 points3 points4 points 26 minutes ago (1 child) Hey all, here's my brief business analysis. It's an interesting move. I see them pullling a 180 and reframing their go2market framework from open weights to GDPR-compliant and enterprise-friendly. That niche definitely exists right now - but surely quickly also will be a market to conquer for OpenAI aswell. All of OpenAI's efforts point in this direction. Then Mistral will be in the situation to be much more dependent on Microsoft for their marketing via Azure, since it's their only major inbound channel, than vice-versa. And for Microsoft it will not make sense long-term to have multiple satellite enterprises competing for the same segment, overhead in infrastructure, etc. This is a small sized bet for Microsoft, but Microsoft is known to constantly seek for portfolio synergies and optimization. We might very well see Mistral become merged to OpenAI a year or two down the road. Nevertheless, every actor in the industry knows the power and ingenuity of the Open Source and research community. I strongly believe that OSS nevertheless will have an extremely strong role to play. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]xadiant[S] 0 points1 point2 points 19 minutes ago (0 children) While more competition is great, it sucks for the end user to be stuck with Microsoft. It's basically a huge monopoly market now. I doubt they'll merge since they are based on different countries and have different company culture. I bet they hit that 9 figure deal and good for them I guess. It's still a cheeky move though! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]pointer_to_null 4 points5 points6 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Mistral always seemed like they were positioning themselves as a takeover/IPO target. Their open models generated attention-grabbing headlines- both Mistral-7B and Mixtral punched well above their weight (heh) at the time of release. It's inevitable they'd need to recoup all the VC cash they burned through training these, but it's hard to survive as a small company trying to straddle the fence between open and closed LLMs- surrounded on all sides by giants like Meta, Microsoft, Google and OpenAI. However, their closed models have been rather meh in terms of price/ quality. Can't imagine they'll last long if this trend continues. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Short-Sandwich-905 1 point2 points3 points 17 minutes ago (0 children) Crazy things are other users here being apologetic * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]knvn8 7 points8 points9 points 4 hours ago (7 children) Google, Microsoft and Amazon don't get this kind of hate, everyone expects them to be profitable. Mistral can't keep releasing open models without some revenue stream. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]ViennaFox 21 points22 points23 points 2 hours ago (0 children) I'm sure that was one of the arguments OpenAI used to justify themselves. I fully expect Mistral to become the same, especially since Microsoft is involved. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]stopmutilatingboys 14 points15 points16 points 2 hours ago (4 children) OpenAI definitely gets criticized for being ClosedAI. I don't think Google ever promised open weight models, nor anything from Amazon. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]knvn8 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (3 children) I think OpenAI criticism is valid, especially given the money they took on the premise of being nonprofit. Mistral has given this community a lot for free, and warned a long time ago that some models would not be. It's been more than fair, and I hope the unwarranted hate doesn't make them decide that dealing with this community isn't worth it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]stopmutilatingboys 7 points8 points9 points 2 hours ago (2 children) They are a business that is obviously trying to make a profit and seems to have large ambitions. If a couple people complaining about them not releasing open models is enough for them to close shop, they weren't serious in the first place. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]knvn8 -4 points-3 points-2 points 2 hours ago (1 child) They won't close shop of course, but they may decide there is no advantage to cooperating with the small open source community. OpenAI has certainly shown that to be a viable path. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]stopmutilatingboys 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (0 children) I don't know enough technical details to speak with certainty, but I believe there are benefits to having the community tinker with weights, trying to optimize inference (various quants developed, cpu + gpu compute), extending context length, improving results with loras. Of course Mistral can still benefit based on outside developments that aren't specific to their models. And they can make their own developments and not share them. I don't think the comparison to OpenAI is fair. They have a few years head start, have massive resources behind them to collect and clean data, along with all the geniuses they hire with 7 figure salaries. And they have the moat of owning the best models by far. It would be a massive boon for their competitors if they gave hints at GPT4 architecture, so obviously they won't do that. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]machinekob 2 points3 points4 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Not to be this guy, but developers and scientist are not working for free and they took a lot of VC money + now Microsoft (hardware/ money?) so you won't see models compared to GPT4 for free before Microsoft milk it hard and VC sell they shares. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Junkposterlol 3 points4 points5 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Maybe there should be a wall of shame? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]knvn8 3 points4 points5 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Betrayal implies this was ever a two way relationship. What exactly have we done that Mistral should owe us something? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]TwoIndependent5710 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children) GREED * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]otterquestions 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Good for them. Sad to see they are moving away from open source models but happy to see them successful. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]terp-bick 0 points1 point2 points 34 minutes ago (0 children) * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]xadiant[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 hours ago (0 children) For those atypical friends who are confused Yes yes we get it company make money shocking * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [+]Anxious-Ad693 comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points 3 hours ago (1 child) Wow, company more interested in making money. Shocker. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Sylv__ 0 points1 point2 points 6 minutes ago (0 children) why is this downvoted? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]throwaway_ghast 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Anyone who didn't see this coming from a mile away wasn't around for the OpenAI debacle. Investors demand a wall and a moat to protect their investment. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Chill84 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) avast ye, we'll be takin' t' the high seas buckos! Nay a closed source model be safe fer long 'fore we shipping it peer t' peer * permalink * embed * save * report * reply * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. 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