[HN Gopher] FTC proposes new protections to combat AI impersonat...
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       FTC proposes new protections to combat AI impersonation of
       individuals
        
       Author : oblib
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2024-02-19 19:31 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ftc.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ftc.gov)
        
       | IronWolve wrote:
       | So individuals still have fair use for protests and comedy?
        
         | twoodfin wrote:
         | The FTC's power only extends to commercial activity, and in
         | this case it appears limited to implied (impersonated)
         | commercial endorsements.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Url changed from https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/the-ftc-
       | bans-ai-imper..., which points to this.
        
       | aetherspawn wrote:
       | People don't want to be impersonated by deepfake.
       | 
       | Artists don't want their art style copied.
       | 
       | Writers don't want to be out of business or have the price of
       | their work degraded by GPT spam.
       | 
       | There are a lot of things people don't want AI to do, but I can't
       | want for them to use AI to remaster Star Trek Next Gen (and other
       | old sci-fi) into 4K. This kind of application hurts nobody.
        
         | Nuzzerino wrote:
         | Personally I'd rather AI be used to help fix society and health
         | issues. Help people thrive and survive, things like that.
        
           | cynicalsecurity wrote:
           | Human problems can only be solved by humans, not technology.
        
             | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
             | I'm not sure that's true, are you suggesting the internet
             | hasn't solved a single human problem?
        
               | cynicalsecurity wrote:
               | Nope. It hasn't solved anything.
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | Agreed, but these things are actually harder than upscaling
           | star trek unfortunately.
        
         | ben_jones wrote:
         | > I can't want for them to use AI to remaster Star Trek Next
         | Gen (and other old sci-fi) into 4K. This kind of application
         | hurts nobody.
         | 
         | If the remaster only improves video and audio fidelity sure.
         | But they may also swap out characters, personalities, and plot
         | points, based on the whims of the studio.
         | 
         | AI controlled by major powerbrokers is going to further the
         | aims of those power brokers.
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | If there's a good tool floating around to do the upscaling, I
           | bet committed fandoms are about as likely as major companies
           | to gain access. Superfans wont care about copyright. The only
           | way that wouldn't seem likely to me is if the company owns or
           | unilaterally controls the tool, which we haven't seen any
           | indication is a likely business model.
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | The original Star Wars trilogy is now ruined because of
           | overzealous "remastering"
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Wasn't TNG shot on film and remastered [yes: 0]? Not sure if it
         | made it to 4K, and it probably could use some AI clean up. I
         | did read that DS9 was scaled up with "AI" because it was mostly
         | CGI. I read on reddit that fans are even doing it, with mixed
         | results.
         | 
         | [0] https://trekmovie.com/trek-remastered/tng-remastered/
        
         | megmogandog wrote:
         | I'm curious why you would want 4K in this case? I was over at a
         | family member's place and threw on an episode of TNG to kill
         | time. I was trying to figure out why everything looked so
         | cheap: Picard's uniform, other costumes, the alien makeup. It
         | was because they'd increased the definition past what the sets,
         | costumes, and makeup were designed for. Personally I prefer the
         | fuzzy look which appears more 'realistic' to me.
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | Seems like this is broader than just AI impersonation. It also
       | would include a person claiming to be from the government when
       | they're not.
       | 
       | > Falsely imply government or business affiliation by using terms
       | that are known to be affiliated with a government agency or
       | business (e.g., stating "I'm calling from the Clerk's Office" to
       | falsely imply affiliation with a court of law).
       | 
       | My first thought on this was _great, I'm glad the FTC is doing
       | something about this and I'm surprised it wasn't already
       | regulated by the FTC_.
       | 
       | My second thought was the majority of this type of fraud is
       | probably from foreign impersonation, not Americans. And it's not
       | like they'd be sending in predator drones for surgical strikes
       | against scam call centers, as satisfying as that might be.
       | 
       | My third thought was that having this on the books and keeping a
       | record of these violations will give the FTC leverage to crack
       | down on telecoms that don't do anything about it.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | "Hello sir I am calling from Windows support."
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | indeed, almost no novel criminality or fraud is occuring.
         | 
         | robocalls should just be illegal. unidentified propaganda
         | should be banned. ads with fraudulent claims should be
         | prosecuted.
         | 
         | you can argue about "to what degree" but AI isn't doing
         | anything but exposing the true lack of enforcing of existing
         | laws because of capitalism grease.
        
           | ethanbond wrote:
           | > but AI isn't doing anything but exposing the true lack of
           | enforcing of existing laws because of capitalism grease.
           | 
           | This is just a dismissive way of saying "AI isn't doing
           | anything but making the problem worse."
        
             | cyanydeez wrote:
             | right.
             | 
             | I guess my opinion is "they already weren't tracking the
             | type of fraud AI is capable; they weren't enforcing
             | fraudulent activity..."
             | 
             | AI just makes it more numerous. a non story.
             | 
             | "sorry guys, we're still not regulating white color fraud"
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | This is a legal clarification. Impersonation has always been
           | illegal, but they didn't specify AI because they didn't exist
           | back then, so now they do.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | >My second thought was the majority of this type of fraud is
         | probably from foreign impersonation, not Americans. And it's
         | not like they'd be sending in predator drones for surgical
         | strikes against scam call centers, as satisfying as that might
         | be.
         | 
         | I think it means that american-owned social media platforms
         | would be required to comply with these rules though, right?
         | that seems like a fairly big deal.
        
         | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
         | > My second thought was the majority of this type of fraud is
         | probably from foreign impersonation, not Americans.
         | 
         | There's an industry for it in India, because they can source
         | english call center workers there fairly easily.
         | 
         | The youtuber Mark Rober ran into a couple of US mules for these
         | sorts of scams while working on one of his prank videos, and
         | decided to team up with some other youtubers to troll some of
         | these companies in India. The video on it is worth watching:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLJZyih3Ac
        
       | thesis wrote:
       | Isn't fraud already illegal?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | They think there will be additional deterrence by making it
         | super illegal. See "identity theft" for a previous example.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | Yes and assaulting someone is also illegal (whether with a
         | weapon or not), reckless driving is also illegal (whether you
         | are drunk or not), and violent hate crimes are illegal (whether
         | you had discriminatory hate in your heart or not)
        
         | Cheer2171 wrote:
         | Fraud has to be prosecuted by the Dept of Justice. Deceptive
         | business practices can be independently pursued by the FTC.
        
       | kjkjadksj wrote:
       | Too bad scammers couldn't care less what the FTC decides just
       | based on the crap coming into my physical mailbox, email inbox,
       | and calls and texts.
        
         | spazx wrote:
         | Nor the FCC. I just got a call from a contractor-recruiter call
         | center. (About half of them are scams, but you can't tell,
         | because they all sound like the same foreign call center.) The
         | caller ID said "Public Service". That has got to be illegal?
        
       | evolvingstuff wrote:
       | I suspect in the near future there will be a number of cases
       | where individuals will intentionally release a bunch of AI
       | "chaff", in the sense that having a very large number of bad
       | videos/texts about them, of which many are clearly false, will
       | disguise the actual bad behavior. I'm not sure what term/phrase
       | will be used for this particular tactic, but I am absolutely
       | certain one will arise.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | This almost certainly already happens, just without AI. For one
         | example look at the surfeit of UFO stories, many of which can
         | be plausibly attributed to state efforts to cloud intelligence
         | about actual classified air and space technology
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | This (minus the AI part until now) is pretty much the strategy
         | of political operator Steve Bannon, who pithily summarized it
         | as 'flood the zone with shit'. Think of all those junk 'news'
         | sites that are just barely curated content farms using
         | automated 'spinners' to pump out content, rage farming pundits
         | etc.
        
       | karmasimida wrote:
       | AI watermarking would be a boom business.
        
         | PeterisP wrote:
         | Why would the scammers apply watermarking to their fraudulent
         | data? Or do you expect that FTC somehow will make the open
         | source generative models disappear worldwide?
        
       | MR4D wrote:
       | Key words - "allow for _civil_ penalties".
       | 
       | Civil is a much lower bar than criminal when it comes to court
       | cases.
        
       | reocha wrote:
       | Unfortunately the cat is it out of the bag, we can't simply
       | legislate this away.
        
         | malfist wrote:
         | The same thing has been said before. Doesn't make it true.
         | 
         | Lawn mower manufacturers said they couldn't make lawnmowers
         | safe, it was impossible. Until the government mandated that
         | they had too.
        
           | reocha wrote:
           | Lawnmowers can't emulate the president of the united states.
        
         | scoofy wrote:
         | People respond to incentives.
         | 
         | We have insanely high quality printers, yet we do not have much
         | counterfeiting.
         | 
         | Just because we _can_ do something easily and illicitly, doesn
         | 't mean that people _will_ do things illicitly if the proper
         | instinctive structure is implemented.
        
           | reocha wrote:
           | What proper incentive structure do you suggest? There are
           | plenty of protections for printers and even then we do have
           | (printer based and otherwise) counterfeiting.
           | 
           | We are talking about a software based solution that can
           | emulate any public figure (locally) that the average person
           | will not be able to recognize. This is a categorical risk to
           | the information age
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | we can't legislate it away, but we can throw the book at people
         | who do. i don't understand why the knee jerk cynical response
         | is "why bother," as if that will make the problem better.
        
           | reocha wrote:
           | Do you want to regulate every gpu that can run a video sim?
           | 
           | An easier requirement from official sources to embed a public
           | key in a video. This is a solved problem
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | is this regulating every gpu? this simply says there are
             | legal consequences for aiding fraud.
             | 
             | laws that say murder is illegal are not regulating knives.
        
       | jmorrice wrote:
       | When dealing with Western actors, this is symmetric warfare. If
       | you are a political party and the opposition impersonates you,
       | you could do the same back.
       | 
       | What concerns me is the asymmetric threat such as posed by North
       | Korean dollar groups. For the uninitiated, this is a real threat
       | but let's for a moment not think about the silliness of present
       | day Communists getting extremely ruthless about stacking cash.
       | 
       | The model I'm concerned about is, say you have a NK hacker group
       | and they make a very, very convincing video of a CEO doing
       | something embarrassing (shout out a former UK PM's alleged
       | porcine initiation ritual) with a view to making cash.
       | 
       | These people are focussed on the bottom line. They could
       | structure their extortion demand to be F.O. money and get paid
       | with little fuss. And do it over and over.
       | 
       | On the one hand the replicability of such attacks concerns me.
       | However I have been considering a future where we are embarrassed
       | or exposed to embarrassing content on an industrial scale.
       | 
       | Embarrassment is a social concept that we all deal with, and deal
       | with it we do. It could be that the AI impersonation mess gets so
       | bad we all become inoculated to this type of content because
       | virtually everyone notable has become a victim already. Could it
       | become the cost of doing business?
        
       | ranger_danger wrote:
       | Ctrl+F "crypto", not found.
       | 
       | Nothing to see here, moving on.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | This is the controversial provision, the "means and
       | instrumentalities" clause. Existing law covers people running
       | impersonation scams. The big question is, what responsibilities,
       | if any, do sellers of tools have? The draft language:
       | 
       |  _SS 461.5 Means and Instrumentalities: Provision of Goods or
       | Services for Unlawful Impersonation Prohibited._
       | 
       |  _It is a violation of this part, and an unfair or deceptive act
       | or practice to provide goods or services with knowledge or reason
       | to know that those goods or services will be used to:_
       | 
       |  _(a) materially and falsely pose as, directly or by implication,
       | a government entity or officer thereof, a business or officer
       | thereof, or an individual, in or affecting commerce as commerce
       | is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C._ 44);
       | or*
       | 
       | (b) materially misrepresent, directly or by implication,
       | affiliation with, including endorsement or sponsorship by, a
       | government entity or officer thereof, a business or officer
       | thereof, or an individual, in or affecting commerce as commerce
       | is defined in the Federal Trade Commission Act (15 U.S.C. 44).*
       | 
       | It's the "with knowledge or reason to know" clause that's key
       | here. Various industry parties have already commented on this,
       | some wanting stronger language there to protect sellers of
       | general purpose tools for creating content.
       | 
       | Sellers of automated outbound marketing tools which can be used
       | to deliver impersonation scams might be caught up by this.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-19 23:00 UTC)