[HN Gopher] It's 2023 - why is it still so annoying to respec in...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       It's 2023 - why is it still so annoying to respec in singleplayer
       RPGs?
        
       Author : josephcsible
       Score  : 10 points
       Date   : 2023-11-22 21:19 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcgamer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcgamer.com)
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | It's one reason I play JRPGs as you get to enjoy a few
       | characters.
       | 
       | As a sometimes DM I hate the "character development" of D&D
       | (players who just can't stand that things don't go that way) and
       | that's why I like to run games like Toon which are light hearted
       | or games that are brutal like Call of Cthulhu and Paranoia.
        
       | progne wrote:
       | Disagree, constraints on respec are consequences for in game
       | choices, which raise the stakes for each move and can greatly
       | increase immersion. Like putting money down on a horse race. That
       | doesn't mean that all RPGs should be perma-death, but that it's a
       | complex artistic choice.
        
       | nvy wrote:
       | If respecs are free:
       | 
       | You're playing a Sword & Board fighter type character, and
       | Stealth isn't one of your class skills, so you temporarily respec
       | into Thief, steal the MacGuffin, and then re-respec back into
       | Fighter and continue on your merry way.
       | 
       | You're playing a Frost mage and this dungeon is full of cold-
       | resistant enemies. So you respec to Fire mage to do this dungeon.
       | 
       | You're playing a low-charisma class and need to convince an NPC
       | so you respec into Bard to pass the conversation check.
       | 
       | Why even have classes at all at this point?
        
         | mckirk wrote:
         | Maybe you could make it a part of the difficulty setting. I
         | mean, sometimes you just want to roll over everything in your
         | path and feel badass for a bit, and sometimes you want an
         | actual challenge.
        
           | nvy wrote:
           | Maybe there's an indie game idea here. You play as a shape
           | shifter type character, and the core game mechanic is
           | morphing between tank/heal/DPS type roles to adapt to the
           | challenge at hand.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | Spoiler alert for an old RPG called "Sanitarium":
             | https://store.steampowered.com/app/284050/Sanitarium/
             | 
             | It's been a _very_ long time since I 've played this, but
             | it's one of the few games I actually played to completion.
             | It featured this mechanic late in the game, where you could
             | choose to become one of three "aspects" of your PC in order
             | to overcome certain challenges. It was pretty basic, but it
             | was a nice touch and made a lot of sense in-sotry.
        
         | von_lohengramm wrote:
         | > Why even have classes at all at this point?
         | 
         | Perhaps this is the actual lesson? Instead of artificial
         | opportunity cost in the form of exclusive choices, why not
         | provide opportunity cost in the form of time/money/etc
         | investment?
         | 
         | You're a Sword & Board fighter in need of stealing the
         | MacGuffin. Instead of magically undoing the choices that got
         | you here, you go out and practice Stealth until you're able to
         | heist the famed MacGuffin.
         | 
         | Admittedly, this system _does_ actually provide less immersion,
         | meaningful choices, etc., but IMO this can be mitigated almost
         | completely by making skilling up much harder. If you still want
         | to promote class /archetype-based characters, then just make
         | your character's class reduce the amount of XP needed to level
         | up certain skills. While you're at it, make having high skills
         | also reduce the XP cost of similar skills. Someone who's really
         | good with two-handed weapons will probably pick up one-handed
         | weapons much quicker than someone who's never even touched a
         | weapon.
         | 
         | And if this isn't enough opportunity cost for truly meaningful
         | choices, then limiting the availability of XP (in certain
         | sections of the game?) is also an option.
        
       | emmo wrote:
       | Friction isn't inherently negative.
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | Just hexedit your save file if you care that much. And level up
       | to level 99 while you're at it.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | Consequences have value
        
       | bigbuppo wrote:
       | Well for starters, with MMOs you are your character and you're
       | paying to play. Every single month for fifteen years. They are
       | part of the Great Enshittification where we own nothing and just
       | pay rents for all eternity.
       | 
       | Single player games generally have a start and an end. You respec
       | on your next replay.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-11-22 23:01 UTC)