[HN Gopher] Tuxedo Pulse Gen 3
___________________________________________________________________
Tuxedo Pulse Gen 3
Author : rreyes1979
Score : 74 points
Date : 2023-11-13 02:33 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tuxedocomputers.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tuxedocomputers.com)
| routerl wrote:
| EUR1100 base price. Not too bad given the specs.
| pixelpoet wrote:
| This looks like a great deal and makes me regret my recent laptop
| purchase :/ Bit of a bummer because I rarely use and upgrade
| them.
|
| At least now I know where to look for the next one, especially in
| Germany where it's annoyingly difficult to get a US QWERTY kb.
| kstrauser wrote:
| `var USB-C_charging = true;` in the screenshot isn't valid
| JavaScript.
| jeffparsons wrote:
| The `else` badly wants to be in an expression-oriented
| language, too.
|
| JavaScript would be a strange choice for "fake code for
| marketing website" even if it was correct code...
| all2 wrote:
| You could start the "can I sell this with brainfuck?"
| challenge. Or k. K would be an interesting thing to see on a
| sales page.
|
| Oh, wait, even better, every time the page loads in the code
| graphic swaps from one arcane language to another.
| cvccvroomvroom wrote:
| No ECC RAM: don't care. It also doesn't say not soldered on RAM
| and SSD which means it probably is.
| akovaski wrote:
| > It also doesn't say not soldered on RAM and SSD which means
| it probably is.
|
| > Just like the CPU, the LPDDR RAM is also soldered onto the
| motherboard [...]
|
| > Another advantage of LPDDR RAM is its space-saving design,
| which creates room in the ultra compact chassis not only for
| the performant and quiet cooling system but also for 2x
| upgradeable M.2 SSDs [...]
| beAbU wrote:
| What's it with HN's obsession with ECC RAM?
|
| Also, doesn't DDR5 have built-in ECC?
|
| Also, the website talks about M.2 for the SSD form factor. M.2
| describes a physical connector standard. I would imagine that's
| enough to imply that it's not soldered SSDs.
| nik736 wrote:
| ECC RAM has its advantages but I agree it's not a must have
| for workstations. DDR5 has on-die ECC, which is basically
| controlled by the RAM itself and not everything around it
| like with regular ECC.
| ArtemZ wrote:
| After I experienced ARM chips in macbooks x86 laptops are no more
| for me.
| ekianjo wrote:
| Happy paying 3x more?
| fourstepper wrote:
| I don't think price is the main issue for most people in tech
| spookie wrote:
| Depends where you were born ig
| ponector wrote:
| For many people in tech price of the new MacBook is greater
| than monthly net salary.
| moooo99 wrote:
| + 1. to get a usable MBP spec (i.e. at least 1TB disk and
| 24GB RAM) you're looking at a 2,689EUR price tag here in
| Germany. Not an issue if it's company provided, but
| outside, this is more than two months worth of rent and a
| substantial part of a post tax income of a software
| engineer in Germany.
| ekianjo wrote:
| This comment only applies to tech people working in the US,
| and mostly California.
| xcv123 wrote:
| Yes
| jeffparsons wrote:
| Not the person you're replying to, but I'm afraid so.
| MacBooks are just so far ahead of their "competition" that
| it's not funny.
|
| The M2 MacBook Pros are about as close as you can get to a
| perfect laptop. Really, I wish it wasn't so. It would
| arguably be better for everyone (except Apple) if there was
| some serious competition at the top end of the market. But
| there just isn't.
|
| I've still yet to see another laptop that has even passable
| handling of sleep states / other parts of power management.
| (A lot of this is an OS integration problem, so Apple is
| playing on easy mode here.)
|
| I've still yet to see another laptop with an even passable
| trackpad. (Again, OS integration, plus a stupid amount of
| heuristics built into the hardware itself to interpret what
| you actually meant when you touched the trackpad in an
| awkward way.)
|
| I've still yet to see a laptop with a keyboard as nice as the
| current generation MacBooks. (The first generation of M1
| MacBook laptops was awful, but they fixed it. Also this point
| isn't really fair because I haven't really seriously looked.)
|
| I've still yet to see a laptop with as slick of a chassis and
| display.
|
| I've still yet to see another laptop that can chew through
| demanding workloads, remain snappy the whole time, and not
| simultaneously sounds like a jet engine and throttle itself
| to a near halt.
|
| But really, just give me proper power management and a decent
| trackpad and I'll call it a serious competitor.
| jwells89 wrote:
| That combination of decent performance (even while
| unplugged), battery life, and silence is hard to come by in
| x86 laptops, even in ultraportables built with efficiency-
| focused laptop CPUs where one would expect at least battery
| life and fan noise to not be issues.
|
| Apple's silicon helps here but I wonder if part of the
| problem isn't x86 laptop manufacturers trying too hard to
| juice perf numbers at the cost of all else, as well as
| penny pinching on heatsink and fan.
| jeffparsons wrote:
| Ever opened up the average laptop? They look like someone
| threw the list of component dimensions at a bin packing
| algorithm, let it run for a couple of minutes, then added
| some extra plastic struts to fill the dead space.
|
| It feels like nobody* else is even _trying_.
|
| (*Except Framework. Those guys are awesome.)
| all2 wrote:
| That makes it sound like there's a lot of end on the
| premium end of the market.
| fsflover wrote:
| Apart from Framework, Purism also care about users
| opening up their laptops: https://docs.puri.sm/Librem_14/
| Maintenance/Disassembly.html
| qwytw wrote:
| > Except Framework
|
| They are obviously doing a great job at what they set out
| to do but besides reparability and customization I don't
| think they are really ahead in anything compared to some
| premium Windows laptops.
| qwytw wrote:
| > efficiency-focused laptop CPUs where one would expect
| at least battery life and fan noise to not be issues.
|
| AMD laptops seem to be pretty decent at that. You can get
| something on par or even ahead of MBPs in battery life
| and performance and just a bit louder fans (IMHO the Air
| is till unbeatable if it works for your use case though)
| imiric wrote:
| I agree with some of that, but none of it is worth
| sacrificing user freedom. Using an Apple product is being
| forced to use computers in exactly the way Apple designed
| them, with very little room for customization of the
| experience. This might be fine if your preferences align
| with Apple's, or if you just don't care, but for tinkerers
| and tech enthusiasts it's an oppressive and limited
| environment. And at the end of the day, it still has its
| own share of issues, like any device, so it's always a
| tradeoff.
|
| I'd trade lower build quality and performance per watt for
| software freedom any day of the week. No, Asahi Linux is
| not a serious option.
| wilsonnb3 wrote:
| Why is Asahi not a serious option? Linus Torvalds himself
| uses Asahi on an Apple Silicon Mac, that is a pretty
| solid endorsement of it being a serious option.
| a_vanderbilt wrote:
| The reasons appear idealogical rather than practical,
| which is interesting given the problem at hand.
| imiric wrote:
| How did you reach that conclusion? On the contrary, my
| reasons are purely practical. The fact Linus uses Asahi
| is far from an endorsement for regular users. He
| obviously has a much deeper knowledge of Linux compared
| to a regular user, with the skills to troubleshoot and
| fix most issues.
|
| My reasons for not considering it:
|
| - As skilled as the Asahi team is, they're a small team
| going against one of the world's largest corporations.
| Not only does it take immense effort to reverse engineer
| every single hardware component, the project will always
| be at the mercy of Apple, who may break the support at
| any time with a software or hardware update, whether
| willing or unwillingly.
|
| - The Linux software ecosystem is sufficiently unstable
| on its own, but also running it on ARM, _and_ an alien
| hardware environment, presents even more challenges. As
| much as the Asahi team has made progress here, expecting
| them to support all variations of software in this
| landscape is unreasonable. I definitely don't want to
| have additional issues to troubleshoot, which I'm tired
| of doing with Linux to begin with. Cue the replies
| claiming how Asahi works flawlessly...
|
| That's a whole lot of shaky ground to base my computing
| on, and I wouldn't consider it even for personal, let
| alone professional, use. Maybe if Apple started opening
| up and officially supporting Linux on their hardware, I
| _might_ consider a project like Asahi, but until then,
| it's a non-starter for me.
| xcv123 wrote:
| > expecting them to support all variations of software in
| this landscape is unreasonable.
|
| They don't support variations of software at all. They
| support the hardware. If the drivers work then the
| software just works. Software is built on APIs. Asahi
| does not need to support applications.
|
| > always be at the mercy of Apple, who may break the
| support at any time
|
| Same deal for any other hardware manufacturer. The x86 PC
| manufacturers are still using proprietary undocumented
| hardware components to this day, even the ones who you
| believe are "officially" supporting Linux. It only works
| because devs are reverse engineering devices without
| support from the manufacturers.
|
| > but also running it on ARM, _and_ an alien hardware
| environment, presents even more challenges
|
| ARM is a stable well supported platform for Linux, so the
| CPU is less of an issue for Asahi devs. Graphics hardware
| is somewhat "Alien" but is also stable now on Asahi.
| imiric wrote:
| > They don't support variations of software at all. They
| support the hardware. [...] Asahi does not need to
| support applications at all.
|
| From their FAQ page[1]:
|
| > We will eventually release a remix of Arch Linux ARM,
| packaged for installation by end-users, as a distribution
| of the same name. The majority of the work resides in
| hardware support, drivers, and tools, and it will be
| upstreamed to the relevant projects. The distribution
| will be a convenient package for easy installation by
| end-users and give them access to bleeding-edge versions
| of the software we develop.
|
| As distro maintainers, it is their job to make sure the
| applications they package work on the hardware they
| support. This includes submitting patches upstream when
| that is not the case, as application maintainers likely
| wouldn't want to support such a niche environment
| directly. So, yes, they rely on volunteers to fix issues,
| but they will likely have to support many applications
| themselves.
|
| There is still a lot of broken software, as this list[2]
| is surely not exhaustive.
|
| Regardless, all this amounts to less choice of software
| for the user. The Asahi team has already decided to stop
| supporting Xorg, and say what you will about Xorg, there
| will be many applications they realistically can't or
| won't support for whatever reason.
|
| > Same deal for any other hardware manufacturer. [...]
| Really not much different to other hardware manufacturers
| since Linux started.
|
| No, it's very different. First of all, the amount of
| Linux hackers who volunteered to reverse engineer the
| wide variety of hardware was orders of magnitude larger
| than the Asahi team. Even if they limit the amount of
| devices they support, modern computers are far more
| complex than in the early days of Linux. Regardless of
| how talented the Asahi team is, maintaining all the
| hardware of a modern computer is a sisyphean task for a
| small group of volunteers.
|
| Secondly, hardware manufacturers could see the benefit of
| getting their hardware to run in Linux, and many
| eventually took over support from volunteers. Apple has
| shown no interest in doing so, and has historically been
| hostile to open source.
|
| > Asahi devs have made it clear that Apple has chosen to
| avoid blocking installation of other operating systems.
|
| The fact they allow installation of other operating
| systems today, doesn't mean that this decision couldn't
| change in the future. Services are a large part of their
| business, and allowing a group of hackers to use their
| hardware without being part of their software ecosystem
| may seem like a non-issue today, but if this group grows
| larger assuming projects like Asahi are successful, this
| might become a considerable loss of income which wouldn't
| be in their best interest.
|
| > Apple has no issue with it.
|
| Can you point me to an official ackgnowledgment of Asahi
| Linux by Apple? Or any indication that leaving this door
| open was a sign of good will, instead of a lack of
| interest in closing it? What makes you think they
| wouldn't eventually lock down Macs in the same way they
| do iPhones and iPads?
|
| > ARM is a stable well supported platform for Linux
|
| It's really not. A lot of software works, but when it
| doesn't, the user is SOL. As you can see on their Broken
| Software page[2], the major issue is precisely with
| AArch64 support. This should improve eventually, and
| Asahi is certainly a torchbearer in this scenario, but
| today it's yet another hurdle of using Apple hardware.
|
| [1]: https://asahilinux.org/about/#is-this-a-linux-
| distribution
|
| [2]: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Broken-
| Software
| xcv123 wrote:
| > Can you point me to an official ackgnowledgment of
| Asahi Linux by Apple?
|
| No but there is this:
|
| https://asahilinux.org/about/
|
| "Does Apple allow this? Don't you need a jailbreak? Apple
| allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon
| Macs without a jailbreak! This isn't a hack or an
| omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into
| these devices. That means that, unlike iOS devices, Apple
| does not intend to lock down what OS you can use on Macs
| (though they probably won't help with the development)."
|
| > A lot of software works, but when it doesn't, the user
| is SOL.
|
| Talking about the Kernel (Linux itself). Applications are
| another story.
|
| You are looking at it all from a very conservative
| enterprise perspective. Worried about long term support
| etc for a mission critical system. Asahi is not
| pretending to be an enterprise solution.
|
| For someone just using it on their laptop, none of this
| is much of an issue.
|
| If Asahi works today on your M1 Pro, and its good enough
| for your daily work, then it's fine. If support
| disappears in a few years, then simply switch to another
| device at that time. At least you will have had a few
| years of use out of a decent machine. Life is too short
| to worry too much about these things as an individual
| just using their laptop as a workstation or for personal
| use. Worst case in five years just buy another laptop
| that works for you, and move on.
| ekianjo wrote:
| I'll bite for some of your points.
|
| > I've still yet to see another laptop that has even
| passable handling of sleep states / other parts of power
| management.
|
| That's the advantage of Apple where they control both
| hardware and software. It's hard to replicate, so yeah,
| they have an edge here.
|
| > I've still yet to see another laptop with an even
| passable trackpad.
|
| Never understood this comment, if you use keyboards instead
| for shortcuts the trackpad is hardly something you care
| about. this seems like a comment from Apple users who
| justify the trackpad as the key differentiator to not even
| consider anything else, even though the rest of the world
| has no problem not using Apple trackpads.
|
| > I've still yet to see a laptop with a keyboard as nice as
| the current generation MacBooks.
|
| Lenovo Thinkpad line has world-class keyboards that put the
| Macbook's to shame.
|
| > laptop with as slick of a chassis and display.
|
| display, they certainly have good ones, but most of them
| are not matte. As for the chassis, there's really nothing
| special in having a uniform grey chassis - it's a matter of
| taste rather than anything else.
|
| > I've still yet to see another laptop that can chew
| through demanding workloads, remain snappy the whole time,
|
| Recent AMD CPUs equipped PC, running Linux, fit that
| description - they are formidable machines with great
| performance for a variety of workloads and while you will
| hear the fan now and then, it's still much better than what
| you had a few years ago.
| qwqetyr wrote:
| > Never understood this comment, if you use keyboards
| instead for shortcuts the trackpad is hardly something
| you care about. this seems like a comment from Apple
| users who justify the trackpad
|
| Or as shockingly as it seems other people might have
| preferences which are different to yours and which are
| not somehow inherent inferior to yours.
|
| > else, even though the rest of the world has no problem
| not using Apple trackpads.
|
| If you go few years back same could've been said about
| appalling battery life, poor screen and build quality and
| a dozen other things. I had not problem using computers
| back then because I didn't know it could be better so
| just had to deal with it. Going back to something
| objectively inferior is not that easy (e.g. I almost
| always used an external mouse until the first retina MBP,
| I haven't really felt the need to since then except
| occasionally for gaming).
| xcv123 wrote:
| > and while you will hear the fan now and then
|
| Never heard the fan on my M1 Pro in a year of ownership,
| and temperature is never uncomfortably high.
|
| I'll pay double just to never hear a shitty laptop fan.
|
| > but most of them are not matte
|
| It is a matter of preference. Matte reduces contrast,
| saturation, and sharpness. I noticed Apple uses a higher
| quality anti-reflective coating than my other (cheap non-
| Apple branded) glossy desktop LCD. No distracting
| reflections on the laptop, but the desktop monitor looks
| like a mirror sometimes.
| a_vanderbilt wrote:
| It's an "inconvenient truth" that plenty in the saltier
| circles of the Linux world really don't like. Getting a
| good *nix environment on a laptop is a struggle. Even on
| lines like the ThinkPads you still have paper cuts like bad
| touchpads, DSP-less audio, terrible battery life, or buggy
| drivers making the experience unpleasant. Nothing single
| device has brought everything together as well as an M2
| MacBook Pro, and it's a damn shame.
| Klonoar wrote:
| It is a literal drop in the bucket.
|
| It's like a mattress: you spend enough time on it that it's
| worth paying the money and moving on.
| ekianjo wrote:
| > It is a literal drop in the bucket.
|
| That's a very first world comment
| Darmody wrote:
| And in some first world countries that still means the
| 10% of your annual income.
| Klonoar wrote:
| Yup. It's not wrong though.
| alphanullmeric wrote:
| Compared to what? An equivalent framework costs more in
| Canada when you factor in a student discount.
| qwytw wrote:
| You're are more than right about memory/storage upgrades but
| otherwise Macs seem to be priced very competitively
| considering what they offer.
| latentcall wrote:
| I wouldn't be able to do it until Asahi Linux is totally done.
| Paying 1.5k for a laptop that doesn't respect you is quite a
| big ask. They'd have to pay me to use Mac OS, as someone would
| have to pay me to use Windows.
|
| I'm glad these options exist such as Tuxedo.
| lopis wrote:
| > They'd have to pay me to use Mac OS
|
| And for many HN users, they do get paid to use Mac OS and
| offered a Macbook for work. I personally still use Linux for
| work but I have to admit it hinders my work in certain ways
| (e.g. no easy access to testing Safari and no way to test
| VoiceOver). But I couldn't trade my setup for whatever Apple
| decides is best for me. So I appreciate companies still
| pushing for more solid Linux-first laptops.
| tormeh wrote:
| Got a Mac for work. I'm sure I'm holding it wrong, but to me
| it just doesn't measure up to Linux/Gnome. Of particular
| annoyance is that Mac will just ignore my scroll wheel input
| sometimes. I suspect it's a heuristics thing aimed at
| trackpads. Lots of other small things where Mac doesn't
| measure up. And Homebrew is inferior to most Linux package
| managers. Mac is very focused on the use-case of GUI-only,
| trackpad-only, no external monitor, unplugged usage. That's
| fine, but it's really not how I use computers.
| qwqetyr wrote:
| > will just ignore my scroll wheel input sometimes.
|
| The other day I was trying to set the scroll speed (and
| have it consistent for all apps) on KDE and it was quite a
| struggle. AFAIK it just works on Gnome/Wayland but having
| to chose between something as basic as this and using a DE
| the UX of which I personally find slightly repulsive (at
| least in default config) doesn't seem ideal.
| maxhille wrote:
| Those ARM chips seem really nice but there is not yet much
| choice if you want a usable OS and more hardware variants.
| akovaski wrote:
| I was a bit surprised when I read "4x USB, HDMI and 2x Mini
| DisplayPort". It looks like it doesn't have 2 actual Mini
| DisplayPorts, but instead the 2 USB-C ports support DisplayPort
| 1.4.
|
| It's been a while since I was tempted to buy a laptop (granted I
| don't really look), but this configuration and price seems pretty
| great.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > With the TUXEDO Control Center you are able to control the
| performance and the behavior of the fans by yourself.
|
| I remember seeing this project years ago when I tried to reverse
| engineer my own laptop's fan control functions.
|
| https://github.com/tuxedocomputers/tuxedo-control-center
|
| I actually tried to make it work on my laptop back then. Didn't
| succeed unfortunately.
|
| I'd really enjoy reading about how they figured out the power
| management and fan control stuff. I couldn't figure it out. Did
| they have to reverse engineer? As a manufacturer, do they have
| access to documentation? I emailed Clevo asking for documentation
| and they didn't send me anything helpful.
| boudin wrote:
| I can't really confirm if it's the place to look at, but the
| tuxedo control center works in pair with their kernel module
| https://github.com/tuxedocomputers/tuxedo-keyboard
|
| As the name wrongly imply, it is not just about controlling the
| keyboard. At least on my laptop (an aura15 gen 2), a whole
| chunk of the control center is not available when the module is
| not loaded. Not sure if it will help but you might want to look
| into this module as well for your investigation.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Oh yeah, I remember that now. Back then I looked up those
| UUIDs on my laptop but none matched. The keyboard features
| are also different: they're implemented via ACPI on the
| Tuxedo laptops and via USB control messages on mine.
|
| It's weird. There's all this Clevo ACPI/WMI stuff in those
| headers but when I dumped my laptop's DSDT tables there was
| nothing like that. I found some WMI code in there, ran them
| through a decompiler I found in a GitHub repository and just
| got back some empty stub code. I still feel disappointed
| about it.
|
| https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/DSDT
|
| It's really cool that they added sysfs LED controls. I
| remember looking into that as well. I was planning to send
| USB LED driver to the kernel but while reading kernel dricer
| source code and mailing lists to learn how to do it I came
| across comments saying they prefer to keep stuff in user
| space whenever possible.
|
| This is my driver in case anyone's interested:
|
| https://github.com/matheusmoreira/ite-829x
|
| I just remembered something else. They used to be on
| bitbucket instead of github. In 2018 I messaged them there.
|
| https://bitbucket.org/tuxedocomputers/clevo-xsm-
| wmi/issues/4...
|
| They asked me to email them. I did and they actually sent me
| the control center software before they released it and also
| some details about how they were interfacing with the
| laptop's embedded controller. I still have those emails, they
| were very helpful. Very nice company and people.
| xbar wrote:
| This looks really good. If I had any reason to buy a laptop
| today, this design would be at the top of my list.
| lhl wrote:
| Pretty decent specs if you're OK w/ 32GB of (fast) soldered
| memory and don't need an ANSI keyboard (there is an EN-US ISO
| option).
|
| It's interesting to compare to the their Intel Infinity Book Pro
| Gen8 offering - that has a DDR5 SODIMMs, 99Wh battery, and is
| actually slightly lighter than the Pulse (also a brighter 400nit
| vs 300nit display), although you give up 1 M.2 SSD slot, it's 40%
| more expensive, and even with the much larger capacity runtime
| and performance is about the same or worse, since Intel.
|
| Another good option for current-gen (7040) Ryzen ultra-portable
| Linux laptops is the Framework 13. A little pricier, 1 x M.2, but
| you get 2 x DDR5 SODIMMs, a 400nit+ display, and Framework has
| made good on their upgrade promises (this is their 4th drop-in
| replacement motherboard that runs in the same chassis and it
| seems like they're going to keep going). It has a very active
| Linux user community on their forums as well.
| dajonker wrote:
| No ANSI keyboard might be a deal breaker for my muscle memory
| and external keyboards (mechanical and MX keys that I had to
| import from the US because Logitech only sells ISO in the EU)
| prmoustache wrote:
| Why do you need a "specific keyboard" if your muscle memory
| is there? Just map it to whatever works for you.
|
| I am typing all the time in us alt international on various
| physical keyboards that have printed buttons in spanish
| qwerty, swiss french qwertz and plain ansi us keyboards. It
| is only a problem for those that have very little
| experience/use of the keyboard.
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| Exactly. They even offer a "complete black keyboard" with
| no letterprints at all - definitely aimed at power users.
| Cu3PO42 wrote:
| Because muscle memory breaks if the physical layout of the
| keys is different. The parent is used to ANSI and might hit
| enter where there's a different key on ISO. I am used to
| ISO and my layout uses that key as a modifier and is barely
| usable on ANSI, simply because moving my pinky to the key
| above enter is uncomfortable for me.
| prmoustache wrote:
| We are much more adaptive than that. Among all my
| computers keyboards at home I have 4 different shape of
| the enter key and among the 2 that have a similar ANSI
| shape they don't have nearly the same size.
|
| You'll always have your favorite physical layout but
| muscle memory can also adapt. The same way I don't ride
| my mountain bikes the same way I ride my road bikes I am
| naturally and unconsciously adapting to the different
| keyboards based on how they feel to my hands.
| bjakubski wrote:
| It is not possible to "just map": Enter key has completely
| different shape and size and pushes backslash/pipe key to
| different row. I'm used to ANSI with single row Enter and I
| don't seem to be able to switch to ISO (in the past I was
| forced to order and replace keyboard in my laptop because
| of that)
| prmoustache wrote:
| See my other reply above, we are much more adaptive than
| that.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Not all of us, "we" are not. If it works for you great,
| but "we" agree to disagree here.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| If "you" are so different species, I'm looking with
| horror to the day when you need to replace your car.
|
| Come on, button shape and placement (which is _not that
| different_ , there is no round Caps Lock on Backspace)
| completely breaking the ability to work on the computer
| is the most retarded First World Problem.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> I'm looking with horror to the day when you need to
| replace your car_
|
| Which car of yours did ever swap the positions and shapes
| of the 3 pedals or the steering wheel?
|
| Every (manual) car I ever drove had left pedal always
| clutch, middle one brake, and right one was the loud
| pedal and steering wheel was always in front of me and
| somewhat round shaped.
|
| So what's there to adapt to when changing cars? At least
| use some good analogies if you want to play this game.
|
| _> completely breaking the ability to work on the
| computer is the most retarded First World Problem_
|
| Where did I say it's completely breaking the ability to
| work on the computer?
|
| It's not, but it's annoying enough to affect my
| productivity, kind of like a rock in my shoe, and enough
| for me to prefer to stick to my ISO layout wherever I
| can.
|
| But you do you, and let me do me. Peace out.
| cardiffspaceman wrote:
| I borrowed a car that did not have a stick supporting the
| gear selector. Instead the gear was selected by a slide
| switch in the plane of the top of the center console. In
| my muscle memory, that is not where that function is.
|
| What do I win in exchange for getting accustomed to this?
| dajonker wrote:
| The difference between ISO and ANSI is the physical layout,
| i.e. the shape of the Enter key and the left shift key.
| Epa095 wrote:
| Not bad. But I wonder why they went for 7840HS, instead of the
| lower TDP 7840u.
|
| Spec wise this one is quite close to lenovo t14s/p14s gen 4,
| which can also be configured with a similar screen (there is also
| the yoga slim 7 gen 8, but it has a glossy screen).
| fyrn_ wrote:
| This config is GPU-less so it has the thermal / power budget to
| handle it. It's kind of meant as developer machine.
|
| As far as I can tell the trend was first started by the
| Mechrevo code 01. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-
| ryzen-4000-mechrevo-la... Which actually got a decent amount of
| press have some initial Twitter hype. Several other Clevo based
| brands followed like Tuxedo and XMG. Not sure that Clevo
| actually intended it as a dev focused config originally, but
| they definitely leaned into it with later revisions after they
| saw the enthusiasm.
|
| Not for everyone, personally the Framework 16 appeals a lot
| more to me (I've preorded), but when I was in college the pure
| CPU maximization probably would have won me over.
| lhl wrote:
| The Mechrevo Code 01 was a Tong Fang ODM chassis. XMG/Tuxedo
| (sister companies) have varying laptop models from both Tong
| Fang (Uniwill now?) and Clevo.
|
| Historically, a lot of devs using Linux laptops have
| preferred iGPU models both to maximize useful perf/watt
| (dGPUs models tended to drain power much faster even when
| idle) and b/c most dGPU laptops are Nvidia-based and the
| driver issues used to be terrible. I wonder if that calculus
| will be changing now w/ local LLM code-helpers and other AI
| apps benefit greatly from stronger GPUs.
| lhl wrote:
| It might come down to availability, although in general I
| prefer the higher wattage chips since they will usually have
| higher specced cooling and if you want to lower power
| consumption, you can use a tool like ryzenadj to lower power
| limits (but usually not increase power, which is usually
| hardware locked).
| cyclever wrote:
| I bet you can only run Ubuntu and derivatives on this. As a die-
| hard Arch user Tuxedo is a bad choice.
| boudin wrote:
| Why do you say that? You can run whatever distribution you
| want, i run arch on a tuxedo laptop with no issue. Tuxedo
| laptops are not perfect but i find them a good choice for
| running Linux, whatever distribution you prefer.
| d--b wrote:
| What's not perfect about Tuxedo laptops? It's the first time
| I hear about these, and it seems they have a great spec/price
| ratio. This is definitely a brand I'd consider buying.
| boudin wrote:
| On mine (an aura 15 gen 2) the webcam and speakers are
| really not great. I don't mind as I knew that before buying
| it, so no disappointment.
|
| On the plus side they really do support Linux, they provide
| a kernel module and control center app to control things
| like keyboard leds and power profiles, which does a good
| job. I find this quite good for a small company like
| Tuxedo.
|
| I'm happy with my laptop and will consider Tuxedo again
| next time I need a computer, but I definitely advise to
| look at reviews beforehand.
| _0ffh wrote:
| Agreed, I've got an Aura 15 as well a few years ago, and
| I consider it a good buy price/performance wise.
|
| I had originally ordered a different, slightly more
| expensive model, and had no trouble at all with customer
| service to send it back in exchange for the Aura and a
| refund, which impressed me very positively.
|
| I run Debian on the laptop and had no trouble with it.
| tormeh wrote:
| Microphone on mine was pretty bad, without exaggerating.
| The procedure for updating the BIOS was the worst I've ever
| seen. Maybe if you run TuxedoOS it can be done in a better
| way. I once left it at full charge on the shelf for a month
| (possibly two) and the battery inflated. Admittedly not a
| smart move by me, but still. Support is excellent, though,
| and I got a free replacement battery. If you can get a Dell
| with Linux I'd say that was a smoother experience for sure.
| That said, I don't want to be all negative: It's nice to
| buy a laptop and 100% know that all the hardware works with
| Linux. That's worth a lot to me.
| boudin wrote:
| I would love Tuxedo to release firmware updates via
| fwupdmgr. The current procedure works but is quite
| cumbersome indeed (copying file on a usb stick, boot on
| it and run a couple of command from it)
| ensocode wrote:
| As a happy Infinity Book 4 Arch user without any issues so far.
| Where were your problems?
| LanternLight83 wrote:
| What makes you think so? Have you had or heard of someone
| having issues like that before?
|
| FFIW, you could probably install Arch (from a TTY, like in the
| old days :p) with the an Ubuntu kernel and any firmware that
| was loaded-in at runtime from the stock installation-- I'm not
| convinced it would be neccessary, but Linux is Linux and (most)
| differences between (most) distributions are minor enough that
| someone who knows how to troubleshoot this sort of thing could
| factor them out.
| chme wrote:
| Strange, for a company, advertising to the Linux community, to
| offer only Laptops with Nvidia dGPUs, where you actually have to
| taint your kernel/userspace with proprietary software in order to
| use it.
| mariusor wrote:
| What do you mean "only"? This specific model has a AMD Radeon
| 780M card.
| chme wrote:
| But that is a iGPU.
| mariusor wrote:
| But the laptop does not have an Nvidia graphic card.
| chme wrote:
| Well, aparantly my comment is not about this laptop then,
| because this laptop doesn't have a dGPU.
|
| (But you are right, maybe I should have formulated it
| better. I meant all Laptops with dGPU they offer are with
| a Nvidia dGPU.)
| Darmody wrote:
| There are basically no laptops with AMD GPUs. Why? I don't
| know. I think in the last months I've only seen one and I don't
| remember it as a laptop someone would buy.
| chme wrote:
| Well, this is a company that creates Linux laptops. So if
| they decide to offer laptops with dGPU, they might want to
| use hardware that is well supported by Linux.
|
| Laptops with Nvidia dGPUs are available from many/most other
| manufacturers, as you said, so there is no real reason to buy
| them from them. Especially if they offer sub-par Linux
| experience.
| Darmody wrote:
| I get your point but I think this is an AMD problem.
|
| Their can't keep up with the demand on the laptop market.
| How old are their Zen 4 processors? There are barely
| laptops with them. We had to wait months for a real use
| benchmark because it was impossible to get them.
|
| Right now if I see and AMD GPU I wouldn't even know if it's
| new gen or from 3 years ago.
|
| They are not on the market mobile market.
| wilsonnb3 wrote:
| Yeah they are quite rare, I bought an ASUS ROG Strix
| Advantage edition because it has an AMD CPU and GPU and have
| been quite happy with it.
|
| I don't know if they make them anymore but I highly recommend
| it.
| qwytw wrote:
| That's pretty dogmatic. I don't see much issue with proprietary
| drivers (even if it's not ideal how Linux handles that) if they
| actually worked properly, which unfortunately they don't..
|
| Not that this is relevant for this laptop.
| chme wrote:
| This isn't dogmatic, it is practical considerations.
|
| From experience, open-source drivers that are integrated into
| the kernel and open-source source user space have much better
| quality, better out-of-box experience, and push the whole
| ecosystem forward.
|
| Compared to closed-source drivers, which often need to catch
| up to modern software, and are difficult to debug, they need
| additional steps to integrate and often have to build their
| own stuff instead of improving existing solutions that help
| everyone.
|
| You will not get helpful support for errors in your
| proprietary driver from the manifacturer in most cases, while
| you get support and fixes from the open source community. It
| is much easier to isolate the issues if you can access the
| code.
| mariusor wrote:
| I own one of the previous generations of this laptop and I want
| to say that the batteries are a bit of a sham (hopefully they're
| better in this new one). I've had to change them once a year,
| because they drop from 100% health to 60% in less than 12 months.
| Each replacement was around 80-90EUR.
| luckyshot wrote:
| I've had similar issues.
|
| At a few months old, the laptop (a Tuxedo InfinityBook Pro 14
| Gen 6) couldn't hold a meeting.
|
| Their customer service suggested I disabled the graphics card
| and to throttle the CPU, converting a $2000 laptop into a $1000
| one spec-wise.
|
| After a year and a half, I've just moved to a Thinkpad at half
| the cost and I couldn't be happier.
|
| I wanted to support a smaller company rather than Lenovo but
| that's how it is, there where many other nuances I had to deal
| with (2 dead pixels, awful sound, microphone was meh, TuxedoOS
| started giving me kernel problems every update...).
| bflesch wrote:
| Amazing. I own the Gen2 and am very happy with it. Good to see
| that now you don't need the stupid dock any more in order to run
| multiple screens, but you can do it via the 2x USB-C and the HDMI
| with the new model.
|
| I can only recommend this laptop.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-11-13 23:02 UTC)