[HN Gopher] Tail vaccination in cats: a pilot study (2014)
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Tail vaccination in cats: a pilot study (2014)
Author : hammock
Score : 35 points
Date : 2023-07-09 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| tguvot wrote:
| we discovered "injection site-associated sarcoma" on our cat year
| ago. it took 6 months till the end. meds didn't help
| kelnos wrote:
| I'm so sorry to hear that :'(
|
| Ever since I read about VAS/FISS last year, I've been re-
| evaluating our cat's vaccination needs, especially since he's
| indoor-only and doesn't interact with other cats. I'll continue
| to get him the three-year FVRCP and rabies vaccines, since
| they're pretty terrible diseases, and the former three are
| super contagious, but FeLV and FIV seem unnecessary considering
| his circumstances.
| tguvot wrote:
| I'll suggest every now and then (couple of weeks) to feel
| your cat through the skin in order to early discover any
| growth.
|
| When we discovered tumor it was too big to remove (it went
| from his neck to hind leg on one side of backbone)
| leeoniya wrote:
| same, but in 2016 :(
|
| at least we suspected that's what the cause was since it was in
| the upper hind leg / near base of tail. cat was healthy for
| 9yrs before this.
| tguvot wrote:
| Our was 14. Never got this official diagnosis, but given
| location of tumor....
|
| Well, Israeli street cat average lifespan is 1-2 years. You
| can say that he got 9 lifes
| firstlink wrote:
| [flagged]
| lisper wrote:
| If there's evidence it's not disinformation. Not all false
| claims are disinformation. And if the evidence is mistaken, you
| need to provide evidence for that claim. You can't just assume
| a priori that any claim about a link between vaccines and
| cancer must be false.
| firstlink wrote:
| [flagged]
| tekla wrote:
| Its really hard to take seriously calling others stupid
| while saying "I believe science" with a straight face.
| sfteus wrote:
| This isn't anti-vaccine propaganda. This is a real issue
| that specifically affects cats, and is extremely well
| documented.
|
| In addition, this paper investigates alternative injection
| sites that reduce occurence while still providing the
| benefits of vaccination, not avoiding vaccination entirely.
|
| It would be extremely bad anti-vaccine propaganda if that
| was the intent.
| tekla wrote:
| This isn't disinformation, its a well known issue. How does it
| feel to propagate disinfo yourself?
| kelnos wrote:
| If you're going to claim this is misinformation, please provide
| sources to back up this claim, since you seem to be presenting
| a claim that is contrary to the available scientific evidence
| that I've read about, at least. (Also consider that we're
| talking about cats here, not humans; I don't think anyone
| credible is claiming that there's a link between vaccines and
| cancer in humans.)
|
| Also note that this isn't about vaccines, specifically. The
| term used now is "injection site-associated sarcoma", as any
| kind of injection (antibiotics, sedatives, fluids, etc.) can
| potentially cause this. It's not about the vaccine and has
| nothing to do with anti-vaxxers; the mechanism is still poorly
| understood, and the simple act of injecting _anything_ may
| trigger it.
|
| Edit: based on your other responses you sound like you're just
| trolling. Downvoted and flagged; moving on with my life.
| brianleb wrote:
| From the American Association of Feline Practitioners Feline
| Vaccination Guidelines
| (https://catvets.com/guidelines/practice-guidelines/aafp-
| aaha...):
|
| >>Distal limb injection is recommended to facilitate amputation
| with 5 cm margins in two fascial planes in the case of
| injection-site sarcoma.
|
| >>Tail vaccination has also been reported as well tolerated and
| elicited acceptable serological responses to vaccination in the
| distal limbs.
|
| >>The 2013 AAFP Feline Vaccination Advisory Panel Report
| included recommendations for specific vaccine antigens to be
| administered at specific anatomical locations in the distal
| limbs. This technique has helped facilitate the identification
| of the vaccine antigen used if a sarcoma developed subsequently
| at the injection site. Since this technique has been widely
| adopted, these injection-site recommendations have also led to
| a shift in the site of tumor formation to the distal limbs,
| thus facilitating potentially life-saving surgery for patients
| suffering from these invasive tumors.
|
| -------------
|
| If you have better information, please provide it. This has
| nothing to do with the concept that vaccines are bad, and
| everything to do with the concept that evidence-based (vet)
| medicine saves (animal) lives.
| firstlink wrote:
| [flagged]
| PAPPPmAc wrote:
| The vet my cats get their routine care at has switched to
| suggesting intranasal for most routine vaccines in cats. The
| evidence seems to be that intranasal conveys a slightly better
| immunity (possibly by specifically sensitizing the mucous
| membranes) and avoids the small but well-characterized injection-
| site sarcoma risk, at the cost of a 30% chance of some minor
| cold-like side effects for a few days.
| kelnos wrote:
| Is this available for the rabies vaccine too, or just for
| FVRCP?
| PAPPPmAc wrote:
| I don't think there is an intranasal feline rabies vaccine
| available, but the booster schedule is now out to 3 years.
| kelnos wrote:
| Cats seem to be a bit over-vaccinated these days. The FeLV
| (feline leukemia) and FIV (cat HIV) vaccines are pretty silly to
| administer outside of high-risk situations. Indoor-only cats
| who've tested negative and don't interact with other cats really
| don't need them. Despite this (with guidance along these lines
| provided over 10 years ago), many vets still push at least the
| FeLV vaccine. I got our cat his latest FeLV shot last fall after
| he turned two, but I don't think I'll be continuing it in the
| future.
|
| There are now three-year versions of the FVRCP and rabies
| vaccines that can be given once the cat is no longer a kitten,
| which should cut the risk of injection site sarcoma by quite a
| bit. I probably wouldn't recommend against rabies vaccination,
| since contracting it is a death sentence. The three diseases
| FVRCP protects against are all super contagious and pretty
| dangerous, so same deal there.
|
| I was reading about vaccine-associated sarcoma / injection site-
| associated sarcoma last year, and it seems pretty scary. You have
| to notice and recognize it pretty much immediately, and perform
| surgery. Often removing the tumor isn't enough, and you have to
| amputate the limb, assuming you get to it quickly enough, before
| it spreads to the rest of the body. This is why current guidance
| is to give cats the shots as far away from the main body as
| possible, as doing so makes it easier to remove any tumors that
| might result. (And even then, there's still often recurrence,
| even when "successful".)
|
| If vaccinating via the tail is just as effective as the hind leg,
| this seems like a win. Amputation sucks no matter how you dice
| it, but I think a cat will recover better and more fully after a
| partial tail amputation, over a limb (even partial) amputation. I
| do wonder how widespread tail vaccination is, though. I've never
| heard of it, even though this paper was published nine years ago.
| Our vet definitely doesn't do it.
| tguvot wrote:
| this kind of over-vaccination is required by most boarding
| facilities.
| jemmyw wrote:
| I've read a few articles over the years about the vaccination
| schedule for cats and how its not necessarily driven by medical
| reasons. Given that information, and that I live in a rabies
| free country, my cats got the first vaccinations and the follow
| up boosters when they were kittens, and then at 4 years old. I
| would look to getting them vaccinated again at 10 unless
| there's a good reason for doing it earlier. Good reasons would
| include travel, a new disease/vaccination is available -
| basically the same reasons for getting a vaccination myself.
| gus_massa wrote:
| Relevant information about this cancer in cats
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine-associated_sarcoma
| fanatic2pope wrote:
| "Vaccine site-associated sarcomas were renamed as injection site-
| associated sarcomas as an acknowledgement that they can occur
| after injection of a variety of medications, including
| antibiotics, long-acting corticosteroids and insulin."
|
| https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1098612X13483239?ur...
| hammock wrote:
| Great clarification. People ought to know that a lot of vaccine
| skepticism is related to excipients and not the actual vaccine.
| All types of injectable preparations tend to contain
| preservatives, for example, some of which (like thimerosal)
| have been controversial in the past
| 015UUZn8aEvW wrote:
| 1-10 per 10,000 seems like a fairly high number if it's
| "associated with high mortality".
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