[HN Gopher] Ferengi Rules of Acquisition
___________________________________________________________________
Ferengi Rules of Acquisition
Author : _Microft
Score : 168 points
Date : 2023-06-23 17:38 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (memory-alpha.fandom.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (memory-alpha.fandom.com)
| jccalhoun wrote:
| They issued these in booklet form. I picked it up from Goodwill a
| year or so ago. I haven't read it but for $1 it is a nice
| conversation piece on my shelf.
| brian_cloutier wrote:
| There's a great fanfic which attempts to explore these more and
| polish them up into a cohesive philosophy.
|
| In Star Trek the Ferengi are a foil, a caricature of capitalist
| excess. This fanfic attempts to paint a different kind of
| caricature. I'm not anarcho-capitalist so I don't want to speak
| for them but this seems to describe the utopia of free exchange
| they wish for.
|
| https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11867818/1/Little-Green-Men
| Reticularas wrote:
| The ferengi, despite being over-the-top capitalist, do have
| their moment of shine when they coyly remind humans their
| homeworld has yet to have a single war.
| WalterBright wrote:
| The Ferengi are the left's view of free market capitalism, and
| the Federation is the left's view of the wise and benevolent
| dictator of utopia.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| To anyone who's never watched DS9, do yourself a favor. Picard
| will always be the best captain, but DS9 was by far the better
| show episode for episode.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| As a fan of the original series and TNG, I tried watching DS9
| and found it really boring. I've heard it gets better later on.
| Would you agree with that?
| ramesh31 wrote:
| You really have to just grind through the first two seasons,
| as it's a ton of world bulding and character development, but
| that's the whole point of DS9. By the end of the series there
| are multiple incredible character arcs that put TNG to shame.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| DS9 suffers from the usual "takes two seasons to get going"
| handicap common to Treks, but has the additional Bajor thing
| dragging it down. Is it the Israel-Palestine conflict or not?
| The show cannot seem to decide. The actors manage to be solid
| enough to redeem a lot of the show's problems, even non-
| regulars like Jeffrey Combs.
| Beldin wrote:
| Basically, the Cardassians were an authoritarian, fascist
| regime bent on destroying a species different from them.
| With the brutal oppression, "work" / death camps, religion
| on one side, fascist regime on the other, a nebulous
| Gestapo-alike secret service, "pleasure" girls, etc.
|
| Isreal-Palestine conflict is not the first one to come to
| my mind.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| I was thinking more of the displacement of the people who
| had lived in one place by another group of people.
| shkkmo wrote:
| Absolutely, the show gets better as it goes on. As I recall,
| partway through season 3 is where it starts to really take
| off.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Though unlike with TNG, I wouldn't recommend outright
| skipping the first two seasons either. I actually enjoyed
| the early seasons of DS9 quite a bit on my recent rewatch
| of it. It's slow, but it's building to something. There's a
| lot of character development, and developing the setting as
| well(Bajoran politics, etc). I think jumping straight into
| season 3 would be very confusing and fall quite flat as a
| result of not having become familiar with the characters.
| gymbeaux wrote:
| Everyone should watch season 1 at least once. Rewatches I
| usually skip it.
| yareally wrote:
| I feel like it doesn't really pick up until season 3. The
| first two seasons are semi required for some character
| building, but many of those episodes can be skipped. DS9 had
| the most depth by the end due in part from being on a space
| station instead of a ship.
|
| I could say the same for TNG and Voyager as well (especially
| season 1 of TNG). The 90s era Star Trek series take a few
| seasons to find their footing and build some depth.
| gymbeaux wrote:
| I skip Season 1 when I do rewatches. As with all Star Trek
| series, the first season or two can be dull. Season 1 of TNG
| was _terrible_.
| uoaei wrote:
| I actually loved it, but moreso for its quirky production
| choices (cinematography, lighting, etc.) and the
| interesting attempt at a directorial style which could be
| described as a cinematic-Shakespearean mashup. The stories
| were pretty good too, I thought.
| starkparker wrote:
| The only Trek season 1 that I'll rewatch is Strange New
| Worlds. Recently introduced it to someone who had no
| meaningful experience watching Trek because they either
| kept falling asleep during episodes (TOS, TNG/VOY/DS9,
| DIS), or the barrages of references all went over their
| head and they lost interest (PIC, LD). But SNW hooked them
| immediately.
|
| For all the whiz-bang flaws of Kurtzman-era Trek, they
| pretty much nailed that show's accessibility from the jump.
| Even better than Prodigy, which I liked but was more like a
| distant cousin.
| nonrepeating wrote:
| Agreed, SNG is a truly excellent show, I can't get enough
| of it. Though I'm worried Paramount is going to drop it.
| The open secret in streaming these days is that
| production and distribution costs far exceed revenue, and
| a reckoning has to happen at some point. SNG is the most
| expensive-looking show I've ever seen, except for actor
| salaries (which will only increase as the show succeeds).
|
| So, I'm worried that Paramount execs will either cut the
| show after three seasons (the Netflix Maneuver), or
| demand steep cuts in production expenses (see late-stage
| "Enterprise").
|
| Edit: I'd say only "The Mandalorian" is more expensive to
| make, and as we know, Disney+ is losing huge amounts of
| money.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| I think it's unfair that you're being downvoted because DS9
| does have some of the worst filler episodes and is one of the
| slowest series to gain momentum. Season 4 to 9 of DS9 are
| pretty amazing but if you're not a fan of the characters (as
| I wasn't either) then it can be a real slog to get there.
|
| My personal recommendation is to stick with it because the
| pay off with worth the persistence. But I cannot blame you
| for giving up when you did.
| quantumfissure wrote:
| Yes. I think TNG is overall a better, comfortable show, but
| DS9 is more of a "space-opera" (akin to Babylon 5 or
| Battlestar Galactica), with a few one-offs episodes. Ronald
| Moore wrote both BS:G and DS9, so you see very similar styles
| between the two.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| I couldn't get in to BSG either... too much glorification
| of the military and too much action for my taste.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.
|
| Truer words were rarely spoken
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Also known as the constitution of Ancapistan.
| jmclnx wrote:
| I really did not like how the Ferengi evolved under TNG/DS9. The
| first episode with the they were truly unique and alien. Then as
| things progressed they were turned into to cowards and clowns.
|
| I also say the same for the Borg, the first episode there were
| hive minds connected with tech, they had their own babies and no
| one leader. Then the TNG turned them into ants/bees with queens.
|
| To bad they did not expand upon what seemed to be the original
| intent.
| krapp wrote:
| The Ferengi were a joke when they first appeared on screen -
| they were drooling, barely literate space cavemen. The
| "evolved" Ferengi actually match the writers' original intent
| of portraying them as a parody of American capitalism.
|
| And the Borg weren't portrayed as a hivemind in their first
| appearance, either. They were simply a vastly superior species
| that doesn't consider the Enterprise or its crew anything more
| than resources, and so they just start carving the ship up with
| a laser. Guinan even says it may be possible for the Federation
| to advance to the point of dialogue with them. The focus on
| assimilation was added later.
|
| And the existence of a queen does make sense (although of
| course insect queens aren't actually monarchs.) A purely
| unstructured and decentralized hivemind would be incapable of
| the necessary degree of planning and organization necessary to
| accomplish anything, much less maintain a quadrant-spanning
| technological civilization. A hierarchy is still necessary, and
| in fact the original concept for the Borg more closely
| resembled an insect colony (which they couldn't do because of
| budgetary constraints.)
|
| Also from a purely Doylist point of view, a villain needs a
| face and a voice, otherwise it's just a force of nature. A
| hurricane can be dangerous and dramatic but not compelling as
| an antagonist.
|
| And TNG didn't invent the Borg Queen anyway, that was the
| movies. If you're going to blame a series for ruining the Borg
| look at Voyager.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Voyager had its moments and was a good fun "junk food" trek
| (great for unwinding after work, as I found out while
| marathonning all things Trek a few years ago) but yeah, the
| stuff Janeway manages to pull off with a tiny underpowered
| science vessel cut off from Starfleet, particularly with
| regard to the Borg, was ridiculous.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| The show was really hurt by making it be so episodic. At
| the end of most stories they had to reset things (unless it
| was cast changes). How many times was Voyager taken over
| and had some non-Federation tech installed only to have it
| removed by the end of the story?
| krapp wrote:
| It's heresy but I think Picard did a lot to redeem the Borg
| as a menace by showcasing how traumatic assimilation is
| through Picard and Seven's character arcs, even though it
| also wasted so much potential by not actually using them,
| and I liked Annie Wersching's manipulative queen.
| sgt wrote:
| I love Voyager. If you want to call it junk food trek sure,
| but it has some depth as well. The most depth were some of
| the Dominion DS9 episodes, in my opinion. But overall I
| still rank TNG the highest, then VOY, followed by DS9.
| That's my top three. As for 4th, that's something we should
| discuss over a beer.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| For me the highlights of Voyager were some of its
| characters. The Doctor and Seven both grew into their
| roles very well and Tuvok is one of the most convincingly
| Vulcan characters who isn't Spock, for example.
| sgt wrote:
| And Janeway - such a great character development.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| Really? If you grabbed S1 Janeway and plopped her in the
| finale, I felt she was mostly the same (minus Future
| timeline Janeway grieving for Tuvok/Seven)? Obsessed with
| getting the crew home and willing to bend the rules, yet
| still sticking to Federation principles when push comes
| to shove (ie refusing the handful of opportunities which
| would have plopped them into the Alpha quadrant).
| sgt wrote:
| What you say makes sense if you put it that way. Maybe
| she evolved more as a person than a leader?
| tenpies wrote:
| The whole handling of Species 8472 was a let down. For
| once, the Borg had a credible challenge that had arrived at
| a higher technological capability through completely
| different means.
|
| Then, in the span of an episode, the Voyager crew not only
| figures out a way to crush 8472, but somehow does it with
| technology that the Borg have much better mastery over.
| It's as if a cavemen taught a sharpshooter how to be a
| better marksman.
| batch12 wrote:
| Not every version of Janeway's ship and crew made it. We
| followed the path/timeline of the successful one. For
| instance, Harry and Naomi Wildman's voyager was destroyed.
| There was also the year of hell, etc.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| Mirror Ship Harry - talk about a plot point that never
| gets addressed again! For an episode-of-the-week format,
| it would be difficult to callback to that, but that feels
| like it should become a personality-defining moment: I
| should not exist, except my parallel version was killed,
| and the captain decided I should survive.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| I think it was Rich Evans who said it would be way better
| if Voyager gave up at some point, and decided to found a
| new federation in the delta quadrant. I think I agree with
| him, because yes, the suspension of disbelief sort of piles
| on after a while.
| arp242 wrote:
| > Also from a purely Doylist point of view, a villain needs a
| face and a voice, otherwise it's just a force of nature.
|
| I always felt that they _don 't_ is exactly what made the
| Borg so scary; they can't be talked to or negotiated with.
| They just exist to assimilate. Nothing more or less. No
| compassion, no humanity. Before the Borg queen they really
| _were_ a force of nature, but with laser phaser guns and
| shit.
|
| The replicators in Stargate had the same effect. I felt there
| too they went too far by explaining the origins and having
| "human-like" replicators (I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, as
| I never cared all that much for Stargate and it's been ages
| since I watched it).
| data-ottawa wrote:
| I have the same thoughts on the Borg.
|
| They're like a virus, they're a local optimum that is both
| logical and nearly inescapable.
| lostmsu wrote:
| > a villain needs a face and a voice, otherwise it's just a
| force of nature
|
| I agree with the parent. A force of nature is not a bad way
| to present the Borg.
| hayst4ck wrote:
| If you enjoyed this, Seth MacFarlane (yes that one) weighed in on
| whether the replicator enabled the federations utopian society,
| or whether the federations utopian society enabled the replicator
| in an episode of Orville (I haven't watched it yet).
|
| It seems obvious that the replicator enables utopias, but the
| point that was made was very thought provoking.
|
| Here is the original source I first read an analysis of this idea
| from (sorry for linking to reddit):
| https://i.redd.it/9pmyd8xz3j2b1.png
|
| Original sources from the screen shot:
| https://twitter.com/StorySlug/status/1587086761150349312
| Interestingly, the Season 3 finale of "The Orville" took direct
| aim at the idea that Star Trek's utopian future is only
| possible because of the replicator, and the typically-
| conservative Trek fans who make the argument. A woman
| from an underdeveloped planet keeps begging for replicator
| technology on the grounds that it would bring her planet
| into the same socialist utopia that the crew of the Orville
| enjoys, and the first officer says "You've basically got that
| backwards." She explains that it was their socialist
| utopia that brought about the cooperation necessary to
| invent the replicator, and that had it been invented during
| Earth's 20th or 21st centuries it wouldn't have worked,
| because the rich and powerful would have hoarded the technology.
| As @BoomerNiner often says, we have enough resources on the
| planet right now, without a replicator, to give everybody
| food and housing -- if we wanted to. The invention of a
| replicator wouldn't change that. Zefram Cochrane,
| famously, tried to invent the warp drive with a profit motive -
| he thought he was going to get rich off the technology, and
| it was only the realization that we weren't alone in the galaxy
| (and perhaps a few lectures from people from the future) that
| changed him. But mankind wasn't ready for all the
| various technologies that sprang from this revolution, which is
| why the Vulcans tried to keep a close eye on humanity's entrance
| into the galaxy. A few years after First Contact,
| Earth's government launched a probe, called "Friendship-1"
| that tried to give other planets the means to contact Earth.
| Instead, the people the probe found reverse-engineered the
| antimatter technology and accidentally destroyed their
| planet. The same thing happened in The Orville -
| early explorers, acting like missionaries, tried to bring
| their advanced technology to other worlds in the hope of helping
| people - but the technology just created conflict and
| ruined entire planets. People don't suddenly become
| moved to share because of abundance - Elon Musk had 44 billion
| dollars and he didn't decide to share it with the world, he
| decided to buy Twitter with it. He has always, and will
| continue to, hoard his wealth for himself no matter how much he
| has. If Tesla invented a replicator they wouldn't
| give that away to everyone for free. They'd patent it, and
| sell it to world governments with DRM software they could
| deactivate remotely if those governments didn't pay a
| subscription fee. If governments had replicators,
| they wouldn't suddenly start handing out free, delicious,
| nutritious food to everyone - "that will collapse the
| economy," they'd say. "Free food for the needy would be
| unfair to people who've been paying money for food all this
| time." "How will people be motivated to work," the
| Republicans would say, "if they don't have the threat of
| starvation hanging over them? If everyone has enough food,
| how will we motivate people to join the Army?" Even
| though the replicator was producing molecularly-identical food to
| the real thing, conservatives would insist it wasn't "real"
| enough for them. "Real" beef, they'd say, demands the
| slaughter of an animal. Replicated beef is basically *vegan.*
| The beef industry would quickly draw battle lines with their
| donation money, congressmen from places like Texas would
| move to outlaw replicated meat from being served on the
| grounds that it hurts entire industries. Conspiracy
| theorists would insist that replicated beef is full of additives
| the government is trying to sneak into them to feminize men and
| make you sick, even though *real* beef is full of
| antibiotics and hormones. Campaign ads would show
| Republicans personally slaughtering cattle and gutting deer
| to show their commitment to only eating meat that was really
| alive. We're already seeing this type of thing when,
| like, Cracker Barrel tries to introduce plant-based sausage
| that's entirely optional to order. People FREAK OUT that
| you might take their meat away. In short, inventing
| a replicator wouldn't save us - right now, it'd *ruin* us
| even faster, as the amount of bounty the wealth plays keep-away
| with would just grow even larger and more ludicrous.
| Capitalism would never allow a replicator to exist to its true
| potential, too many people would go broke. Replicators
| didn't create the Star Trek future, the Star Trek future
| comes first, then replicators.
| igiveup wrote:
| > Elon Musk had 44 billion dollars and he didn't decide to
| share it with the world, he decided to buy Twitter with it.
|
| That kind of _is_ sharing his money with the world.
|
| > "How will people be motivated to work," the Republicans would
| say,
|
| Why should they work if they don't want to? You have a
| replicator.
|
| > how will we motivate people to join the Army?"
|
| If this is so, then give replicator technology to the enemy and
| you won't need an army any more.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| That's an interesting analysis. I did see that Orville episode
| and it was really good (in fact, before Strange New Worlds was
| released, I'd have ranked The Orville as the best "new Trek"
| since the TNG / DS9 / Voyager era.
|
| Going back to the meat analogy, I've already seen people argue
| against meat substitute because it "preemptively kills cows by
| not birthing them for meat to begin with". It's amazing the
| mental gymnastics people will take to justify the _status quo_.
| Kamq wrote:
| I call BS on this (as in I disagree with the point, not that I
| doubt it was said), if only for the reason that 3D printers are
| allowed to proliferate.
|
| You could argue that 3D printers are still kinda shitty, and
| only making incremental improvements, but that's the trajectory
| I would expect replicators to follow as well. They'll be sold
| for industrial purposes for companies to make spare parts first
| and then to rich/upper-class nerds to make exotic things and
| mini-figs or something until incremental improvements result in
| a commodity version.
|
| It probably would get patented, and stagnate for 20-ish years,
| and then see an explosion of innovation when the patent runs
| out (unlike copyrights, patents regularly are allowed to
| expire).
|
| Can't disagree with the conspiracy theorists part, though. That
| one seems bang-on like what will happen.
| egypturnash wrote:
| 3d printers _are_ the shitty version of replicators. Build a
| 3d printer that operates at the atomic level, and you have a
| replicator.
|
| This is not a trivial problem to solve. Figuring out how to
| fabricate chips at a slightly smaller scale is the work of
| huge research divisions that build giant machines to do it.
| But. _Once_ you have this, _and_ can put it into an
| appliance-sized box that can make another copy of itself out
| of a trivial investment of resources, things get really weird
| and capitalism probably breaks a lot of people and /or
| itself.
|
| Until then, though, it'll be business as usual. Patents and
| copyright will be there to protect the immense investment the
| corporations made into making stuff a few nanometers smaller,
| and politicians and pundits sucking on those corporate
| cashflow teats will be there to help.
| Kamq wrote:
| > 3d printers are the shitty version of replicators.
|
| That's fair. I was thinking of the ability to work with
| arbitrary matter as a fundamental change rather than
| incremental improvement, but I can see the point.
|
| > This is not a trivial problem to solve.
|
| Of course not, and if I implied such, I apologize.
|
| > things get really weird and capitalism probably breaks a
| lot of people and/or itself.
|
| Probably, property only really makes sense in a world with
| scarcity. Which is why intellectual property always seemed
| weird to me.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I managed to convince my wife to watch DS9 with me and she liked
| the Ferengi, and Garak, the most.
|
| Personally, I would have christened their world Ferengeti
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| A lot of these feel like lazy worldbuilding.
| tonfreed wrote:
| Well the Ferengi were a largely unknown race when first
| encountered in TNG, beyond the fact they were hyperlibertarians
| they didn't bother elaborating. They were the portrayed as an
| annoyance more than anything serious to worry about. DS9 was
| the first series to really build on it, and they recycled a lot
| of old rejected b plots from TNG in the first couple of seasons
| so there was a lot of filler dialog which became canon.
| CalChris wrote:
| The Ferengi are a monarchy led by the Grand Nagus.
| gortok wrote:
| It was a TV show back when they wrote 26 episodes a year, and
| were producing a show a week. Heck, the entire Star Trek
| universe is taking pieces of ideas that you see for seconds and
| turning them into whole backstories.
| gortok wrote:
| Cardassians? Germany post WW1
|
| The marquis? French resistance Against? The Germans.
|
| Romulans? Romans.
|
| Remans? Guess who?
|
| Vulcans? Greek.
|
| Klingons? Russians/Japanese depending on the Star Trek
| series.
|
| Federation? Evolved America.
|
| Ferengi? Present day capitalism.
|
| Borg? Eventual conclusion of overreliance on technology.
|
| All of the archetypes and races from Star Trek are taken from
| germs in our own history.
| ravenstine wrote:
| I always thought the Vulcans had more in common with
| Eastern cultures than a Western one like the Greeks.
|
| Also, Bajorans = Israelis
| ant6n wrote:
| Also, Palestinians = Bajorans. (Don't attempt the
| transitive property on this one, for it will probably get
| u in trouble)
| DropInIn wrote:
| Bajorans are not Israelis, though they are in part
| inspired by the Jewish experience.
|
| Keep in mind there was no major Exodus, the vast majority
| of bajorans remained on Bajor and never left. The fee who
| did were either escaping the cardis or were taken for
| slavery offworld.
|
| They're actually more aptly described as amalgam of Pre
| WWII Jews (more specifically Zionist terrorists like the
| Irgun aka Likud), the Irish during and after the
| Troubles, and the _Current_ Palestinians....
|
| If we're going to focus on the source people's at all
| maybe it behooves us to focus on the ones actually facing
| the horrors depicted, rather than those who used long
| past atrocities as excuse for their own misdeeds.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| I always took the Bajorans to be an obvious allegory to
| Palestine.
| ant6n wrote:
| Yes, but Marquis != Bajoran resistance.
| jiggawatts wrote:
| Borg = Space Zombies
| orls wrote:
| I always felt that the DS9 relationships between
| Cardassians & Bajorans was a product of the time when the
| show was written, and had stronger overtones of the 1990s
| Balkans conflicts and Israel/Palestine than anything else.
| (Though it's far from a direct allegory for either)
| arp242 wrote:
| You also had The Troubles in Northern-Ireland at the
| time, and that's not a huge leap either.
|
| I've also seen people describe the Bajorans as an
| analogue for the Jewish diaspora.
|
| You can fit many real-life events, even more if you try
| hard enough.
| the_gipsy wrote:
| > Remans? Guess who?
|
| Africans?
|
| > Ferengi
|
| Jewish people.
| Steltek wrote:
| Ah yes. All those Jewish women who aren't allowed to wear
| the clothes they want, own property, or conduct business
| without a male present.
|
| It's not as straight forward as "ferengi" = "Jewish".
| Slava_Propanei wrote:
| [dead]
| synetic wrote:
| I took Ferengi to be written as a ridicule of those
| pursuing an Ayn Randian style utopia where everything is
| a business negotiation. It is not, in my opinion, a
| reference to Jews.
| eddieroger wrote:
| This is what I took from them as well, particularly since
| Star Trek was set in an Earth post-scarcity. When
| humanity has progressed to the stars as a result of the
| end of modern society in a war, the Ferengi were a foil
| against what we have versus what we can become.
| zo1 wrote:
| As a fan of the series, I'd argue thay they definitely
| took inspiration for the Ferengi from a caricature of
| traders, greed, utilitarianism and overall love of money
| and materialism.
|
| But to be fair yes, everything in real life is a
| negotiation at the end of the day. Relationships
| included.
| synetic wrote:
| I disagree with the first sentence. I believe the Ferengi
| were written to show what they think happens with the
| sort of unfettered capitalism that the U.S. appears to be
| on a path to implementing.
| Slava_Propanei wrote:
| [dead]
| DropInIn wrote:
| Bajorans? An amalgam of post WWII Jews, Irish during and
| after the Troubles, and modern Palestinians.
|
| Interestingly one of those groups is still being very
| actively oppressed and abused, yet everyone always ignores
| that and often denies their part in the references which
| inspired the creation of the Bajorans.
| hydrok9 wrote:
| The Cardassians seem a lot more like Stalinist USSR, or
| maybe East Germany to me.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| Maquis : it's a French word for tall grass or, like here,
| underground resistance.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Only that the Star Trek Maquis is later also faught by
| the Federation. Which makes the Federation, what, Vichy
| France?
|
| I really seem to be way more indulged with Star Wars,
| were supporting insurgents against oppresive regimes was
| what the Good (TM) do.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| There is some episode of DS9 where the legitimacy of the
| maquis is bring upon. One of the female lead has
| connection to it and it's problematic.
|
| I like those grey area better
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| Don't get me wrong, I love the expanded universe thing. Lower
| Decks is one of my favorite animated shows.
|
| Just, you have to recognize that the source material had its
| flaws. Like, this:
|
| _A contract is a contract is a contract... but only between
| Ferengi._
|
| That's just kind of... bleh? Especially when, yes, you
| consider the ethnic stereotypes "culture of sneering traders
| who will cheat you" evokes. But even without those
| stereotypes, it's just kind of childish.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Then again even in our own world contract is only as strong
| as the legal system backing it. Treaties and agreements
| change things, but going beyond that it is often true.
| zo1 wrote:
| Judging by how many "contracts" between the west and Russia
| I imagine have been broken over the war in Ukraine, its
| actually deeper than many think. We forget how writers and
| comedians have a good pulse on human nature without all the
| fluff and feel good narrative we like to placate ourselves
| with.
| zo1 wrote:
| Let's also not forget: "War is good for business."
|
| In contrast with another one: "Peace is good for
| business"
| ant6n wrote:
| Ah the 34th and 35th of rule of acquisition. It's easy to
| get them mixed up.
| true_religion wrote:
| Well, non Ferengi will often sign contracts then come back
| to claim they didn't know it bound them to do illegal
| actions, or refuse to do something immoral or worse yet
| claim bankruptcy and try to run from debt.
|
| So this line is a warning about outsiders.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Federation is great example of this. They go to planet
| and one of their crew members commits a crime... And then
| they fail to allow just punishment to happen to that crew
| member. Just goes to show that they feel superior to
| other races and do not follow any laws that might apply
| to them.
|
| With such people how could contract be contract?
| eesmith wrote:
| > they fail to allow just punishment to happen to that
| crew member
|
| Which episode were you thinking of?
|
| I'm assuming TNG's "Justice"? In ToS "Wolf in the Fold",
| Scott did not commit the crime but was subject to the
| local authorities; In DS9 "Hard Time" O'Brien did not
| commit the crime but was subject to and punished by the
| local authorities; In ToS "A Taste of Armageddon" the
| entire crew violate local law by not reporting to the
| disintegration chambers; In ToS "City on the Edge of
| Forever" Kirk and Spock steal clothing, and Spock steals
| tools (that one concerned the human race); In "Patterns
| of Force" Kirk and Spock are arrested and interrogated
| after stealing clothing and attempting to infiltrate a
| government building; In VOY "The Chute" Paris and Kim are
| imprisoned after a false conviction; In VOY "Ex Post
| Facto" Paris is imprisoned after a false conviction.
|
| (Also, Nog attacked an army captain while under detention
| in New Mexico in DS9 "Little Green Men", and escaped
| without punishment by the local authorities.)
|
| If you are talking about "Justice", I don't think your
| characterization is quite accurate. In fact, I think
| you've flipped things? Quoting Memory Alpha at
| https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_(episode):
|
| > Liato feels that Picard is suggesting some kind of a
| superiority. He suggests that the Enterprise just use
| their superior powers to rescue the boy, stating that
| they would just record him as a convicted criminal out of
| their reach, an advanced person who luckily escaped the
| barbarism of their "backward little world". But Picard
| tells them that he wants to honor and respect the Edo's
| rules and law, referencing the Prime Directive.
|
| and
|
| > Rivan is amazed at "the city" in the sky, and is
| surprised that with all this power, they do not just take
| Wesley. ...
|
| > Finally, Picard asks how the Edo God aliens would react
| if they were to violate the Prime Directive and Data
| answers that they would consider the Enterprise crew to
| be "deceitful and untrustworthy" and subsequently reminds
| Picard that the Edo God aliens warned them to not to
| interfere with their children below.
|
| Picard, before the sundown deadline when Wesley's
| execution was supposed to take place, instead appeals to
| the Edo god / high-tech "parent" and receives leniency.
| Its/their authority is above that of the Mediators, and
| recognized as such by the Edo.
| Ekaros wrote:
| So they broke the rules and did not accept absolutely
| reasonable and just punishment for the heinous crime.
| Likely they used something threat of genocide to attain
| their goals.
|
| If you go to different country and break laws, you should
| be fully expected to accept any punishment. Especially
| when you are specially selected for such missions. And
| this should extend to anyone you take with you. Just
| leave the kids and families home if you can not lose
| risking them when they do evil things.
| eesmith wrote:
| I take it then "Justice" is the episode you were thinking
| of?
|
| > did not accept absolutely reasonable and just
| punishment for the heinous crime
|
| The Edo "Gods" are recognized by the Edo as being above
| the power of the Edo. The Edo Gods granted clemency,
| which was within their power and thus within the Edo
| legal system.
|
| You used the word "heinous". Does the story show the Edo
| consider it a heinous crime? I suspect that's your
| personal characterization.
|
| At the very least, the Edo youth with Crusher attempted
| to argue that the crime was done without understanding,
| which suggests they might consider other crimes (perhaps
| one carried out with forethought and malice) as more
| heinous.
|
| (If the violation of any law which requires corporal
| punishment is "heinous" by definition, then the entire
| crew of the Enterprise in "A Taste of Armageddon" commit
| a heinous crime by not reporting to the disintegration
| chambers after the simulated attack on their ship.)
|
| > Likely they used something threat of genocide to attain
| their goals.
|
| That makes me think you are talking about another
| episode?
|
| There is no threat of genocide in "Justice", or anything
| like that. At best the threat was to run away - something
| even the local authorities pointed out as an option.
|
| Further, the Edo Gods' abilities were far superior to
| that of the Enterprise, eg, almost invisible to sensors,
| able to shut down the Enterprise transporter remotely,
| and able to detect the new colony in the nearby star
| system. There was no conceivable threat of genocide or
| use of force against the population.
|
| > you should be fully expected to accept any punishment
|
| That's ... just wrong. I mean, in the human system we
| don't "accept any punishment". We can appeal a punishment
| to a higher court, or to someone who is empowered to
| grant a pardon for some or all of that punishment.
| (Carter pardoned draft dodgers who hadn't even been
| punished.)
|
| Picard figured out that the local legal system did
| recognize a higher court, as it were, and figured out a
| successful strategy to appeal to that authority, in a way
| everyone agreed was justice.
|
| Thankfully, punishment was stayed by the supreme local
| authority. We don't know what would have happened had
| that not occurred.
|
| > Especially when you are specially selected for such
| missions.
|
| I agree. Thing is, they did prepare. Early on Yar
| reported "the inhabitants' laws and customs are pretty
| straightforward and nothing out of the ordinary" (quoting
| Memory Alpha). It was only later, after arrival and
| further research into the legal system, that they learned
| they themselves were subject to capital punishment for
| any violation of the law. Quoting
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfqa596xxbc :
|
| Yar: Careful Commander. They've got some strange laws
| here.
|
| Riker: I thought you reviewed their laws.
|
| Yar: They listed nothing about punishment.
|
| (IMO they should have requested an emergency beam-out of
| the entire team at that moment, which would have saved
| Crusher, but given this is a fictional story, the writers
| would have made the crime occur just before Yar learned
| the legal situation they were in.)
|
| You characterized this away team's presence on the planet
| as following a contract. I think it's a valid viewpoint.
|
| How valid is a contract where the penalty clauses aren't
| included in the contract and aren't made aware to one of
| the signatories?
|
| (Still, that doesn't explain why Yar didn't notice that
| punishment was missing, when it should be part of any
| similar contract.)
|
| > when they do evil things
|
| The show only establishes the Edo consider what Crusher
| did was a crime. We do not know enough about the Edo
| sense of morality to establish what they consider "evil".
|
| In human morality, we do not regard as "evil" every
| person who commits a crime.
|
| Why then do you characterize what Crusher did as an "evil
| thing"? Or are you speaking abstractly about some
| hypothetical "evil thing"?
| nurettin wrote:
| Yeah but it's usually something akin to "capital
| punishment for pressing the grass" which is just
| ridiculously outlandish pardon the pun.
| [deleted]
| teekert wrote:
| "When has justice ever been as simple as a rule book?"
| nurettin wrote:
| You know s1e8! The quote fits so well with the website's
| intentions.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| The "crime" that Wesley committed in one episode was that
| he was playing sports with some other teenagers and
| accidentally fell into a flower bed.
|
| The punishment? death.
| amelius wrote:
| I guess nowadays scriptwriters can just come up with
| economic rules and play them out using a gazillion AI
| agents to see if they make sense.
| pierat wrote:
| > That's just kind of... bleh? Especially when, yes, you
| consider the ethnic stereotypes "culture of sneering
| traders who will cheat you" evokes. But even without those
| stereotypes, it's just kind of childish.
|
| I get on one level that the Bajorans were much like the
| historical Jewish peoples, conquered and then freed.
|
| But.... I always thought that the Ferenghi were the
| eponymous Jew stereotype. Short stature, crooked teeth,
| would cheat you at a drop of a hat, overly large ears, code
| of conduct to only deal with their race. It feels like they
| were created in the antisemitic light of "Happy Merchant" (
| https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/happy-merchant ).
|
| Obviously, those are antisemitic tropes for starting to
| dehumanize Jews. But damn, when I saw them in ST:TNG,
| that's exactly what I thought Rodenberry was trying to
| portray.
| toyg wrote:
| At what point trying to label something as racist ends up
| backfiring?
|
| For people born toward the end of last century, the
| stereotypes you mention barely register at all. I only
| know them for having studied Weimar at undergrad level,
| but tbh the only stereotype of Jewishness, for me and my
| peers, is of well-dressed New Yorker professionals and LA
| executives using funny words.
|
| Without comments as yours, I honestly would never have
| thought of late-1800s caricatures of Jews when looking at
| a Ferengi. You are effectively re-popularizing something
| that is utterly dead in the mainstream.
| brookst wrote:
| You're kind of advocating the "let's all pretend the past
| didn't happen" theory of easing racial tensions by never
| mentioning slavery, etc.
|
| It's a viewpoint, but I'm very skeptical.
|
| IMO it is perfectly reasonable to contextualize a
| fictional race by the creators and the time it was
| created. Intentional ignorance and choosing to ignore
| reality never sit well with me. I'm more in the "those
| who ignore history are doomed to repeat it" camp myself.
| DropInIn wrote:
| No.
|
| A Character Type is different than a Caricature, which is
| Specifically when one is representing a Specific Person
| or Peoples.
|
| When there is no such intent and is not based explicitly
| in such prior art, such characters are just that purely
| imaginary characters with zero bearing on real world
| racism.
|
| Enough with the bs.
| grog454 wrote:
| This is a strange take that seems best described as
| "raciphobia". It's not "bs" to ask whether or suggest
| that a creative work was inspired by a stereotype.
|
| There's the creator's intent which can't really be known.
| Then there's the observer's interpretation which is
| equally valid.
| Izkata wrote:
| We can know in this case: It wasn't, back when the
| Ferengi were first created their civilization was more
| like a cross between conquerors and pirates than anything
| else. Their current depiction evolved slowly over the
| course of TNG.
| DropInIn wrote:
| The creators intent can be known When They've Explicitly
| Discussed It.
|
| You're _Presuming_ based on your _Prejudices_ aka Pre-
| Judging.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| If history tells us anything, it's that keeping past
| offenses and injustices alive and on top of everyone's
| mind is how you get centuries of bloody wars, with each
| generation trying to "get justice" for what the other
| side done to their parents. Rinse, repeat.
|
| "Eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind", and all
| that. Surely there is a better way.
| scubbo wrote:
| Add me (born 1990) to the list of people who immediately
| recognized Ferengi as playing into how racist people
| would stereotype Jewishness. "Utterly dead in the
| mainstream" is pushing it somewhat.
| afavour wrote:
| You appear to be suggesting that because you weren't
| aware of something that means it isn't mainstream. I was
| also born towards the end of the last country and I'm
| very aware of the stereotypes we're discussing here. So
| we've got two conflicting anecdotes.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| A friend of mine, half-Korean, made a tremendous case
| that the Ferengi were stereotypes of _Koreans_ and I wish
| I had recorded it, because it was thoughtful and well-
| supported.
|
| I guess some stereotypes are really archetypes and people
| fit them as needed ... or as feared about one's self.
| edvinbesic wrote:
| I thought the Ferenghi were supposed to represent human
| greed.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| They're cringe-inducing, antisemitic caricatures of
| Jewish people.
|
| They're kind of like the Star Trek counterpart to Jar Jar
| Binks.
| beardog wrote:
| >They're kind of like the Star Trek counterpart to Jar
| Jar Binks.
|
| Ahmed Best, Jar Jar's voice and mo-cap actor person of
| color, finds the racial commentary about the character
| offensive and nearly committed suicide over the
| negativity and harassment.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfNiSkd3HfI
| flangola7 wrote:
| Jar jar? What racial stereotype is he
| DropInIn wrote:
| No.
|
| Just because you have prejudices you apply to the work
| does not mean the creators did, which is where any
| factuality of racism or caricature could come to be.
|
| Your prejudices and experiences aren't shared by everyone
| else, which means that they may create material that has
| zero negative features but for which You Perceive
| negative features due exclusively to Your Prejudices.
| shkkmo wrote:
| I think seeing them as caricatures is itself antisemitic.
| There really are no similarities I see between the
| Ferengi and Jewish people.
|
| In TNG they might be one dimensional like Jar Jar, but I
| think the Ferengi get a lot of nuanced characters in DS9
| that blow Jar Jar Binks out of the water in depth. Rom's
| evolution is particularly great.
| lanstin wrote:
| The similarity is between the Ferengi and the anti-Jewish
| propaganda that is so common historically.
| pharrington wrote:
| >There really are no similarities I see between the
| Ferengi and Jewish people.
|
| Correct. But there is a whole lotta similarity between
| the Ferengi and _real life antisemetic caricatures_ , as
| is easily seen by any internet search for "antisemitic
| caricatures".
| uoaei wrote:
| Understanding and describing how racists talk about the
| groups they hate is not racist.
| pierat wrote:
| Indeed. And unfortunately, unmoderated and less moderated
| subcultures have this in spades.
|
| It's also why I chose to link to the ADL in this
| description, rather than other meme sites. It provides
| the much needed context that the initial linked picture
| was done in the 1990s, by "A. Whytt Mann".
|
| Naturally, the Ferenghis were made as a personification
| of the worst that capitalism has to offer. However, the
| caricature itself of the Ferenghi turned into something
| quite terrible indeed.
|
| And as some have said here and claimed of me, this isn't
| my antisemitism showing. In fact, scholars have mirrored
| my own thoughts:
|
| > In his 2007 critique of The Next Generation for the
| National Review, the commentator Jonah Goldberg described
| the Ferengi as "runaway capitalists with bullwhips who
| looked like a mix between Nazi caricatures of Jews and
| the original Nosferatu."[28] The scholar of religion Ross
| S. Kraemer wrote that "Ferengi religion seems almost a
| parody, perhaps of traditional Judaism."[25] He wrote
| that the 285 Rules of Acquisition bore similarities with
| the 613 Commandments of Judaism and that the Ferengi
| social restrictions on women mirrored Orthodox Judaism's
| restrictions on women studying the Torah.[25] Historian
| Paul Sturtevant wrote in 2018 that not only are the
| Ferengi "extremely legalistic" and "defined by their
| greed", echoing common stereotypes of Jews, but the major
| Ferengi characters on Deep Space Nine were all played by
| Jewish actors.[29]
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi
|
| And the 285 rules of acquisition vs 613 commandments ties
| back to the main article, since I like to keep tying back
| in.
|
| That just seems to be way too many "coincidences" for me
| to be comfortable with.
| andrepd wrote:
| Isn't that a bit... strange? You see a caricature of
| greed and you immediately think of Jews, doesn't that say
| something about yourself?
| g8oz wrote:
| I always thought it was interesting that the writers
| named the group after a real historical label for
| (Western European) foreigners.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Legacy
| throw0101a wrote:
| Originally, yes:
|
| > _The Original Series had come from hostility between
| the US and the USSR during the Cold War, Wright sought an
| equivalent relevant to the US of the era he was living
| in, the 1980s. There was meanwhile a palpable feeling
| that the nation 's financial sector was essentially full
| of greedy barbarians, a notion Wright transplanted into
| the futuristic science-fiction setting of The Next
| Generation. (Star Trek: The Next Generation 365, p. 36)
| Rob Bowman offered, "The Ferengi sprung from the
| stereotype of agents and lawyers being cutthroat, greedy
| and wanting only money." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 21, No.
| 2, p. 35) Wright thus conceived the Ferengi as a species
| of profit-obsessed, ruthless aliens. He was especially
| fond of the contrast between them and the crew of the
| Enterprise-D, who had no desire or need for money. (Star
| Trek: The Next Generation 365, p. 36)_
|
| * https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi#Origins
|
| Things got tweaked over time of course.
| MawKKe wrote:
| We're all Ferengi now...
| uhtred wrote:
| Are we gearing up to cancelling the Ferengi now for being
| racist? If so I surrender. Lock me up, throw away the key.
| Quark is one of my favorite characters on DS9.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Given enough time, everything is *-ist.
| OscarCunningham wrote:
| Yeah, the Ferengi exist only as a counterpoint to the
| Federation; not as a society that could actually function.
| Capitalism is always shown in a negative light, except for that
| one episode where Nog goes on a fetch quest.
| chongli wrote:
| I disagree. Every time we think "that could never happen" in
| our society, it happens. In my life time, I've watched the
| rise of software as something you buy and own, and saw it
| transform completely into something you rent. The Ferengi
| society is the logical conclusion to this process. On
| Ferenginar you have to pay for everything, with the
| equivalent of parking meters everywhere.
|
| Our society is rapidly heading in that direction. The main
| difference is that at least the Ferengi are honest about the
| values that govern their society. I think we're far more
| likely to end up like the Ferengi than we are the federation.
| OscarCunningham wrote:
| Yeah, the bit that's bad world-building is that they have
| these terrible values which are repeatedly shown not to
| work, and yet simultaneously they have a successful
| interstellar civilization.
| Ekaros wrote:
| And clearly they are somewhat integral part in operation
| of the part of galaxy they are in. As people keep trading
| often in their currency. Even the federation occasionally
| get hands on Latinum.
| chongli wrote:
| _that they have these terrible values which are
| repeatedly shown not to work_
|
| What? Like our values? The Ferengi are developed to be
| every bit as unique, individually, as we are. We see
| Ferengi scientists, murderers, reformers, inventors, and
| leaders.
|
| I think it's more your lack of imagination that's the
| issue. The Ferengi are totally plausible as scientists,
| inventors, and explorers. Nothing they do is at all out
| of line with what Europeans did in the age of discovery,
| apart from slavery. The Ferengi never tolerated slavery.
| tempodox wrote:
| But they have indentured servitude, which is not that far
| from slavery.
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| > The Ferengi never tolerated slavery.
|
| Ferengi females were arguably slaves since they had so
| few rights.
| sharkbot wrote:
| But the Ferengis changed their society to include "fe-
| males" due to internal politics and change from within.
| It wasn't instituted from the outside, it was Ferengi
| society advancing via the means of their own political
| system.
|
| I think that speaks highly of the Ferengi social system.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Not that Federation was a society that could function
| either... I'm not sure deeply about others, but in general it
| felt that most of them would fail.
| XorNot wrote:
| The Federation has Replicators and the Transporter. They
| are almost the only type of society that makes sense in the
| setting.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Do they transport for example Ores or building materials
| out of planets? Who actually builds all the stuff that
| can't be replicated? And can they just quit their job or
| take personal time off when ever they want?
|
| Also if you really think that everything goes through
| replicators, what does that mean for energy expenditure?
| If done on planets where does all the energy go?
|
| And don't everyone else have those two things too? So why
| did Cardassia need mining outpost?
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Replicators were always described as being energy hungry.
| In some instances slave labour was "cheaper". In other
| instances they used the "this material cannot be
| replicated" loophole. Such as the drug that the Dominion
| were addicted to.
| XorNot wrote:
| Which also doesn't make sense: you can't replicate the
| drug, but it hardly implies you also can't replicate the
| factory which makes it, for example. Just how far up the
| "can't do that" chain do you go?
|
| The thing is, the mechanism of the Replicator is less
| important then what it represents: productivity with
| _zero_ human labor input. We don 't live in that world -
| we have trouble conceiving of that world. But that's
| essentially the whole promise of AI: robots which can
| build more robots, which can then build products for us.
|
| At some point, your whole civilizations pipeline becomes
| "energy + robot labor". And once you get the first part
| of the Dyson swarm up and running, energy is infinite -
| at least in human terms.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| So did the other species mentioned.
| BirAdam wrote:
| The Klingons and the Federation both make sense in a
| world that is post scarcity: war as religion, or
| science/adventure as all-consuming hobby. Thing is, as
| you noted, most other civs make very little sense.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| There are odd episodes throughout Star Trek that do show
| the diversity within each society. Such as Klingon
| scientists.
|
| It's also worth noting that the Ferengi were space worthy
| centuries before humans and one of the reasons speculated
| for their stagnation was the placement of greed above all
| else.
| gvurrdon wrote:
| Which episode showed Klingon scientists? I'd be very
| interested to see that.
| transcriptase wrote:
| TNG 6x22 - "Suspicions"
|
| :)
| gvurrdon wrote:
| Thanks! I'll take a look at Netflix later.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Also "Affliction" and "Divergence" in season 4 of
| Enterprise.
| dundarious wrote:
| I believe this has one scientist each from a few of the
| major species, including Klingons: https://memory-
| alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chase_(episode)
| chongli wrote:
| Could you elaborate? Do you mean they're lazy _at_ world-
| building? Or do you assert that the process of world-building
| itself is lazy storytelling?
|
| Personally, I happen to love the Ferengi and their Rules. They
| started off as villains on TNG but they're just too comical for
| that. DS9 seriously developed their culture into a lovely
| satire on capitalism. At the same time, the show developed
| their individual characters to an impressive extent,
| transforming them from the "greedy merchant/criminal" hat to
| something much deeper.
|
| I think the greatest lesson of Star Trek is that we need to
| look past our stereotypes and past the most visible
| manifestations of culture to see people as individuals. The
| Ferengi, being such a strong caricature, challenged us to do so
| even more than the Klingons.
| ant6n wrote:
| Once you look past the stereotype, the other cultures allow a
| new perspective on us, that is, the perfect humans in Star
| Trek. A rather poignant moment in this respect is the Episode
| in DS9, when the humans encounter the "dominion" with whom
| they will start a war a 2 years later. Quark gives this
| little speech to Sisko, arguably the moral center of DS9,
| who's been kind of looking down on Quark the whole episode:
|
| "The way I see it, hew-mons used to be a lot like Ferengi:
| greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit. We're a
| constant reminder of a part of your past you'd like to
| forget. But you're overlooking something: Hew-mons used to be
| a lot worse than the Ferengi. Slavery. Concentration camps.
| Interstellar wars. We have nothing in our past that
| approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We're nothing
| like you. We're better."
| acheron wrote:
| That was one of the best moments where the writers actually
| took the Ferengi society seriously. Unfortunately they
| didn't really stick with it later in the series.
| neerd wrote:
| Rule 113 has some interest implications. The Fernegi are a true
| patriarchy, women aren't allowed to wear clothes, let alone own
| businesses. So, in Ferengi society the boss is always a man. That
| would mean 113 is tacit implication that homosexuality is part of
| Ferengi society.
| noman-land wrote:
| Rule 113 is non-canon.
| tonymillion wrote:
| During the course of DS9, Grand Negus Zek set the foundations
| for females to wear clothes and amass profits (and thus do
| business)
| Izkata wrote:
| Aside from being in the non-canon section, that's the type of
| rule a Ferengi boss would invent and quote to his hot female
| non-Ferengi employees. Like Quark and the Dabo girls that work
| at his bar.
| optimalsolver wrote:
| Great video compiling them:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PvFYBkesqGU
|
| Worf knows the rules of acquisition!
| ant6n wrote:
| As a graduate of starfleet academy, he knows many things. Of
| course he was there when first contact was made with the
| Ferengi in TNG season 1, and he had already completed his
| classes then, so not sure he actually learned the Ferengi rules
| at school. But I guess we will allow some continuity errors,
| esp if it might just be a joke on Worfs part.
| esprehn wrote:
| I'd assume he does a fair bit of reading. The characters know
| a lot of things you'd only pick up with constant study. Most
| of them graduated from them academy ages ago.
| csours wrote:
| I get all my news from Holodeck sims
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| They are professionals. They don't stop learning after
| graduating.
| Kye wrote:
| Enterprise pushed first contact back a bit when they disabled
| and robbed the ship. The contact in the 1950s never happened.
| Izkata wrote:
| Kind of. Both the Ferengi and Borg episodes in Enterprise
| were careful not to name them, so in-universe it could be
| explained away as having never been connected. Same as how
| the Borg first contact was officially in TNG, but humans
| and Borg had interacted years earlier (the Hansens went
| seeking them out before TNG due to rumours) and time travel
| shenanigans in the First Contact movie.
|
| Also the Enterprise Ferengi were pirates/raiders, very
| different from later depictions, which would make it more
| difficult to connect them later.
| andyjones21 wrote:
| I think Armin Shimmerman did a lot to repent from the disastrous
| entrance of the Ferengi in TNG - and the Ferengi did build into a
| far more compelling race within the Trek pantheon - but the Rules
| of Acquisition as a whole are really not much more than
| entertainment on the follies of overt capitalism.
| sgt wrote:
| Be sure to listen to his recent interview on the Shuttlepod
| podcast. Direct link:
|
| https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-2-10-the-house-of-q...
| sgt wrote:
| And he explains a bit how he changed and evolved the
| character and in fact the entire race of Ferengis.
| Genghis_Khan wrote:
| More direct link:
|
| https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/e9ec167c-750d-44cc-
| bdcc-3b5...
| actionfromafar wrote:
| It's _GREAT_ entertainment though.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Although there are far too many rules for this to be practical, I
| think it'd be great if someone wrote a book about the Rules Of
| Acquisition in the style of Robert Greene's The 48 Laws Of Power.
| :)
| scrapcode wrote:
| I've always found that one to be pretty hard to follow...
| Interesting while you read it, but 48 is quite high to be
| something you can remember them all, much less recall when
| needed.
| mandmandam wrote:
| The loci method makes memorizing 48 things in order the work
| of an afternoon or less, if you're into that sort of thing.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| It's amazing that more people don't know the method of
| loci, I guess Socrates was right in that writing makes
| people not need to remember things as much anymore.
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