[HN Gopher] Biohazard: Iconic symbol designed to be "memorable b...
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       Biohazard: Iconic symbol designed to be "memorable but meaningless"
       (2016)
        
       Author : jsnell
       Score  : 121 points
       Date   : 2023-02-23 03:31 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (99percentinvisible.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (99percentinvisible.org)
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | If you wanted to be a sign of theological danger, it would
       | obviously be an eye inside the yellow triangle.*
       | 
       | In this fashion, Bill Cipher character from Gravity Falls is the
       | walking sign of theological danger and also that danger
       | incarnate.
       | 
       | * - if ancient Greek would be inventing that sign, they'll surely
       | pick Zeus' ligtning bolt inside the yellow triangle - e.g. the
       | one we use for electricity
        
       | nmstoker wrote:
       | I always associated the image with a gas mask: the two lower
       | circles suggested the filters on each side of a mask.
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | The open circles gives this an insect mandible vibes that clearly
       | screams "bio" something.
       | 
       | Just like cats fly away from cucumbers, we probably have a few
       | innate patterns triggered by some shapes. Snakes maybe, multi
       | legged things.. oh and Trypophobic patterns.
        
         | aleksiy123 wrote:
         | I think the curviness as opposed to straight lines make it seem
         | more bio. The other examples they have are made of straight
         | lines and feel man made. Finally, I guess the spikiness conveys
         | danger.
        
         | zeristor wrote:
         | Flying cats?
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | this
           | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cats+cucumbers
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | Some cats jump ("fly") away scared when they see a cucumber
           | as if something deep in the reptilian part of their brain is
           | reminded of some threat.
        
             | remarkEon wrote:
             | Not really related to the biohazard subject, but has anyone
             | figured out why cats do this? Or even posited a theory? It
             | was a source of amusement on vine way back when that was a
             | thing but I've never really seen an explanation for the
             | phenomenon.
        
             | CalRobert wrote:
             | My cat absolutely flipped out at seeing a wrench on his
             | chair a few days ago...
        
               | spacephysics wrote:
               | Snakes. Humans have a similar adaptation, our lower
               | periphery is tuned for it, as well as our reflexes
               | override our conscious choice when, say, a snake goes for
               | your face behind glass
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | I think so too, I even think that the 's' sound is also
               | linked to snakes and slowly creeping dangers in many
               | cultures.
        
       | zoomablemind wrote:
       | Even though the sign shows the test tube holders, what it invokes
       | in my mind is the image of dust or skin mites under the
       | microscope. Those that look like alien monsters with claws and
       | armor. DANGER, Will Robinson! Weird, but that's the power of
       | association.
        
       | rdiddly wrote:
       | Somewhere (my own head I guess) I got the idea it was supposed to
       | evoke the business end of a microscope, albeit abstracted, y'know
       | with the 3 rotatable lenses.
        
       | steve-atx-7600 wrote:
       | It could just be me, but a skull and cross bones "poisonous" type
       | icon seems more effective. I don't see the problem with using a
       | symbol already associated with death/harm. I remember seeing a
       | skull/bones icon as a kid and the message was clear. You could
       | paint this in pink - or use in on a bike helmet - and the meaning
       | isn't lost when labeled on a hazardous substance. I don't think
       | the same is true for the logo they chose.
       | 
       | I can also understand a skull/bones symbol rotated by any angle.
       | Might it offend someone? Probably...what doesn't.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | Different symbols for different hazards, like in data sheets:
         | https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/whmis_ghs/pictogra...
        
         | 7952 wrote:
         | But such a symbol could mean a lot of different types of
         | threat. Sometimes we need to be specific. A bin in a hospital
         | full of needles is different to a bin with iodine 125 inside.
         | It requires a different response. A skull and cross bones could
         | mean stay off my land, mine shaft, deep water, posion,
         | anything.
        
           | hojjat12000 wrote:
           | pirates...
        
       | toss1 wrote:
       | Impressed with their criteria and design of their experiment.
       | 
       | Also, very sympathetic with the inventor being upset with use of
       | the symbol out of it's place, thereby reducing it's
       | effectiveness. This seems like one instance where copyright law
       | should be implemented and strictly enforced, some kind of license
       | free-to-use for actual biohazards but not anything else.
        
         | thejohnconway wrote:
         | Yeah, I'd never thought of the overuse aspect of symbols like
         | this, and I agree. I think it should be enforced.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | This is actually the case for the washing machine/dryer/care
         | tag symbols on clothes. They're actually licensed trademarks of
         | an organization that (freely?) licenses them specifically for
         | use on clothing labels for care instructions but forbids their
         | use otherwise such as a part of a t-shirt design for aesthetic
         | reasons or on a mug or the cover of a magazine (fair use
         | excepted).
        
           | wizofaus wrote:
           | Would this count as fair use? https://www.spreadshirt.com.au/
           | shop/design/funny+washing+ins...
        
         | kipari wrote:
         | Related to this is the Red Cross and Crescent symbols, which
         | have their usage protected usage (mainly for armed forces and
         | emergency relief) by the Geneva Convention:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emblems_of_the_International_R...
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | Seems like a clusterfuck:
           | 
           | "Johnson & Johnson has registered the symbol for their
           | medicinal products."
           | 
           | How did this ever get approved?
           | 
           | "The appropriation of the symbol has led to further
           | irritation due to the practice of hospitals, first aid teams,
           | and ski patrols in the United States reversing the symbol to
           | a white cross on a red background - so undoing the original
           | idea of the Red Cross emblem, namely reversing the Swiss flag
           | - thus inappropriately suggesting an affiliation with
           | Switzerland."
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | The wiki article says that J&J was using the symbol before
             | the US started enforcing protections on it. So the answer
             | to why it was approved is that there was no law preventing
             | it from being approved.
        
           | fredley wrote:
           | Even Stardew Valley fell afoul of this and replaced it's red
           | cross medical logo with green:
           | https://www.stardewvalley.net/1-3-32-small-bug-fix-patch-
           | rel...
           | 
           | I imagine many other video games violate the Geneva
           | convention!
        
             | cprecioso wrote:
             | Oh good I can introduce you to one of my favorite Twitter
             | accounts https://twitter.com/violategeneva
        
         | ClumsyPilot wrote:
         | Copyright is the wrong hammer - firstly it will run out
         | eventually.
         | 
         | Secondly, copyright holder can die, coupyright could be sold,
         | and new owner could be irresponsible, litigious, and repurpose
         | the symbol for a brand of coffee.
         | 
         | Then what, should all labs and scientists in the world find a
         | new symbol?
         | 
         | The only solution is to treat misuse of the symbol same way we
         | treat misusing emergency services.
        
           | toss1 wrote:
           | Yes, I think you're right.
           | 
           | I was first thinking of laws, but they are slow & contentious
           | to pass (esp with one party consistently acting in bad
           | faith), so I quickly landed on copyright, which of course has
           | all the problems you cite and more.
           | 
           | Maybe start with (C), and pass laws to implement your
           | solution? Or, maybe there's a way prosecutors can leverage
           | existing laws.
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | There is a Czech food supplement brand called Diochi which
       | literally uses biohazard symbol as it's logo. It made me smiling
       | when I found out this. I wonder if they were trolled by their
       | graphics designer or what.
       | 
       | https://www.diochi.cz/cs/o-nas/zapomenute-jmeno
        
       | loa_in_ wrote:
       | Every symbol with a completely novel meaning must be meaningless.
       | That's the definition of something new...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | That's not really true and the radiation sign is a good example
         | of that. Even though it was a new symbol at the time, because
         | it visually looked similar to the related phenomenon it was
         | possible to find meaning in it without prior knowledge. Not
         | necessarily the right one and that's a part of the point. If
         | your icon looks visually similar to something else, people
         | might incorrectly infer a different meaning.
        
           | wizofaus wrote:
           | It's hard to argue the radiation symbol inherently indicates
           | danger though. That our seemingly natural reaction to it is
           | "beware" can only be the result of learning the meaning of
           | it. Unlike, say, signs showing "danger to cyclists" by
           | literally depicting a cyclist flying off their bike
           | (https://www.roadtrafficsigns.com/signs/cyclists-falling-
           | on-s... - actually the only place I recall seeing signs like
           | this was NZ).
        
         | croes wrote:
         | From the proposed symbols in the picture down in the article,
         | do you think the right most one would be considered
         | meaningless?
        
           | 0xffff2 wrote:
           | Yes, to the point that I am confused by the question. Could
           | you explain why you (presumably) don't?
        
             | croes wrote:
             | Add one arm, what comes into your mind?
        
               | marcellus23 wrote:
               | That's a stretch.
        
               | croes wrote:
               | Seems to be not a far one because you know what I mean.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | If you take a design with only a couple elements, and add
               | a new one under someone's instructions, it's not hard to
               | make it look like something else. It's definitely a
               | stretch to say it already has a meaning. A circle with a
               | line down the middle doesn't mean anything, but you can
               | outline the bottom quarter slice and make it a peace
               | sign. Or rotate it to make a no sign. Or take an
               | equilateral triangle and overlap another rotated and it
               | becomes a star of david.
        
           | loa_in_ wrote:
           | It's not in the set of symbols I know and I browse through
           | unicode sometimes!
        
             | croes wrote:
             | I didn't say it's not new but not without similarity to
             | existing symbols.
        
       | dclowd9901 wrote:
       | There's something really insidious about the design I can't quite
       | put my finger on. The sharp points maybe? It also looks vaguely
       | like a satanic symbol, but that would require knowing about
       | satanic symbols to be effective, and I assume this symbol is used
       | universally!
        
         | arthurcolle wrote:
         | They look vaguely like demonic sigils, but I think for me its
         | more the sharp black/yellow contrast
        
         | twic wrote:
         | See also the bouba/kiki effect: spiky shape = spiky sound =
         | negative valence:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
         | 
         | In particular, this little experiment:
         | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327766252_The_Good_...
        
         | ModernMech wrote:
         | It looks 3 insect pincers or mandibles.
        
           | twic wrote:
           | Yes, it looks very insectile to me too, and as such,
           | instinctively unclean and repulsive.
        
         | mLuby wrote:
         | I wonder how it's perceived in Muslim cultures where the
         | crescent moon shape is much more common and positive.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-25 23:01 UTC)