[HN Gopher] AC Powerline Adapters - the network security threat ...
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AC Powerline Adapters - the network security threat (2020)
Author : walterbell
Score : 18 points
Date : 2022-10-28 22:10 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (community.spiceworks.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (community.spiceworks.com)
| kennend3 wrote:
| This was an interesting read but doesn't make sense.
|
| I tried these powerline adapters and found they were very
| unreliable across the two phases in my own home. By this i mean
| if i plugged one adapter into an outlet, i had to find another
| outlet on the same side of the panel to get it to work.
|
| To hear that it is working across homes means it must have went
| back to the transformer??
| marmetio wrote:
| What would stop the signal from getting to the distribution
| transformer through the wires? This is why things like power
| factor and harmonic distortion are regulated (specifics depend
| on country and customer type). You can mess up the power for
| everyone else. Or share a network.
| kennend3 wrote:
| > What would stop the signal from getting to the transformer
| through the wires?
|
| The answer is obviously nothing stops it from going to the
| transformer. You seem to have completely missed my point so
| let me restate it.
|
| It is odd how in this case the system works across a
| transformer and into another home yet i found it had
| difficulties on the two phases of my own home?
|
| It would be interesting to hear for an actual electrician on
| how this would be possible, and why it didn't work properly
| for me?
| jesprenj wrote:
| Signal is usually lost going across a tranformer, from one
| winding to anotner. But usually whole residential areas,
| consisting of many streets, share a 24kV to low voltage
| 220V transformer. Meaning you and your neighbour in most
| cases share a single transformer, to which you are
| connected to in parallel.
|
| Different phases are never interconnected, have separate
| windings on a transformer and are on different cables,
| since there's a voltage between different phases, as they
| represent three different points on a generator axis and
| are offset by pi2/3.
| MrStonedOne wrote:
| psychphysic wrote:
| I have power line adaptors just to link a printer in my
| conservatory to the rest of my home network.
|
| One month my internet was incredibly flaking. After finally
| getting down to debugging I was horrified to find mine and my
| neighbours networks had coalesced.
|
| I tore the power line adaptors out and got a WiFi printer.
|
| I have no idea how it could happen only that at some point we'd
| both pressed the connect buttons within the discoverable phase.
| boardwaalk wrote:
| You really should have had a physical filter. They're cheap
| and easy to install.
| kennend3 wrote:
| My experience was also very short lived.. I ran an ethernet
| cable after fighting with that stupid thing for a few days. i
| came to realize i've spent more time on it vs running a wire.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| > a printer in my conservatory
|
| This may be a different use of the word, but I am picturing a
| detached greenhouse. My mental picture has the humidity too
| high for electronics and the only safe outlets being outdoor-
| rated outlets.
| Tsiklon wrote:
| Perhaps a sunroom may be a better word in this case, in the
| U.K. a conservatory is a recreational room with large
| amounts of glass built to face the sun. So one can enjoy
| the sun and brightness of a sunny day without having to go
| outside if it's not warm, or too windy. Frequently they'll
| open onto a patio or other paved outdoor space and from
| there into the garden proper.
| outofmyshed wrote:
| Sounds like the author just needed to set a non-default network
| key.
|
| Powerlines suck, but when you have no other option, they suck a
| little less than no connectivity at all.
|
| If your VDSL line runs anywhere near your mains wiring, they can
| cause crazy interference and erroring as the frequencies overlap.
| Some kit has a notch-out mode to avoid this (Devolo I think).
| 65a wrote:
| Powerline networking is unreliable, and emits huge amounts of
| noise/interference that make shortwave listening a disaster. Just
| use WiFi, or run ethernet. It's really not as hard as you think
| to run ethernet, often it can be run along existing HVAC ducting.
| Macha wrote:
| > often it can be run along existing HVAC ducting.
|
| This presupposes that you have HVAC ducting, which is much less
| ubiquitous outside the US in homes, which are usually the
| primary market for powerline networking. Add to that that
| people in rented accomadation often can't start drilling holes
| to run anything in wall, and there's your powerline target
| market.
| kennend3 wrote:
| > It's really not as hard as you think to run ethernet, often
| it can be run along existing HVAC ducting.
|
| As someone who had replaced a powerline adapter after a few
| days of trying and went with hard wired ethernet..It depends on
| your house layout.
|
| I have an open-concept home which is also missing a room to
| create really high ceilings in the dining room.
|
| To run an ethernet line from the upstairs to the basement i had
| to use 30 feet of string and tie a bolt to it. I then did some
| "fishing" in the cold air return to eventually reach the
| basement.
|
| It can be done, but can also be very challenging.
|
| Wifi is getting better and better as time goes on. These "mesh"
| wifi systems are amazing. I've tried many wifi routers before
| but due to the size and layout of the house they always left
| really bad dead spots.
|
| We now use NETGEAR's Orbi system , and it provides high-speed
| access all over the house including the deck.
| [deleted]
| xnyan wrote:
| An alternative that actually performs quite well is Multimedia
| over Coax (MoCA). Cost has come down quite a bit too, a pair of
| 2.5Gbps adapters runs about $100. In a situation where you're
| renting, or a two story house with no good way to link upstairs
| and downstairs, it's a great choice.
| atchoo wrote:
| > It's really not as hard as you think to run ethernet, often
| it can be run along existing HVAC ducting
|
| In the UK we typically have brick/stone walls and no HVAC.
| Cable ducting above a skirting board is the only option I can
| think of but it doesn't solve crossing the floor or doorways.
| dgemm wrote:
| Shoutout to MoCA which is a better technology than AC power line
| Ethernet but remains relatively little known.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Allianc...
| outofmyshed wrote:
| I looked into MoCA as I have some coax runs in my house that I
| don't use, but when I saw how much power the adapters drew 247,
| I ditched that idea quickly. Instead I used the old coax as a
| pull rope to pull Cat6 through instead.
| kennend3 wrote:
| I wish MoCA was around when i was wiring up my house. I have a
| lot of abandoned COAX which was for cable-TV in my house i
| could have used.
|
| I actually looked into this many years ago as i have a cable
| modem, so ethernet over coax via some sort of "modem" should be
| possible. Sort of a throwback to the old 10-base-2 system?
|
| Wasn't able to find anything that would ave worked so i caved
| in and eventually ran ethernet.
| stormbrew wrote:
| The annoying thing about moca is it's still really expensive
| and the boxes are huge. It would be nice if you could get them
| in a form factor where they replaced the coax plate/box, even
| if they stuck out of the wall more.
| smileybarry wrote:
| The one good "place" I found for it is two outlets on opposite
| sides of the same wall. I use that as a bridging point rather
| than "network" -- backhaul to an AP, wired connection to a
| computer where I care about latency (e.g. gaming), etc.
|
| In those few cases it works really well, adding just a few
| milliseconds and getting good speeds.
|
| But after reading about accidental bridging and remembering that
| _one_ unknown PC in "Network Places" that one time, I installed
| TP-Link's powerline utility and keyboard mashed a new key, just
| in case.
| theptip wrote:
| These days powerline networks have key exchange / encryption and
| so this problem should be fixable, no?
| lordnacho wrote:
| This is arising from the convenience of single press setup, isn't
| it? Powerline should still have passwords and such to stop two
| unrelated networks from connecting, so it's more that the default
| settings are a little too hands-off.
|
| I've found the firmware on TP-Link is a bit lacking. For a while
| they had a rogue DHCP server on their newer connectors that
| couldn't be switched off, until the most recent firmware update.
| This would cause all sorts of issues with that device.
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(page generated 2022-10-30 23:01 UTC)