[HN Gopher] Google Pixel 6 still freezes when calling Emergency ...
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       Google Pixel 6 still freezes when calling Emergency Services
        
       Author : curiousgal
       Score  : 403 points
       Date   : 2022-09-04 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Why are there no recalls for smartphones like there are for cars?
        
       | r12343a_19 wrote:
       | The Pixel 6 is an overhyped disappointment. I replaced my old
       | super-cheap Android One phone with a Pixel 6 and it's full of
       | hardware / software bugs: GPS has problems, I see graphics
       | artefacts (GPU problems?) and Google doesn't care.
       | 
       | I'm not surprised at all it has such a problem.
       | 
       | I should have bought an iPhone SE.
        
         | shadycuz wrote:
         | Oh, so that's why my Pixel 6 always thinks I'm 50 feet to the
         | right of my current location.
        
         | radiorental wrote:
         | I've been a happy pixel user for years after getting burned
         | with some cheap Android phones, most notably One Plus.
         | 
         | The Pixel 6 is an unmitigated clusterfuck. GPS/Maps locking up
         | is the worst. Either wont load or will lock up during a trip
         | and you will miss a turn. Try rebooting a phone while you're
         | alone on a motorway, then having to type in your route again -
         | super dangerous.
         | 
         | I've had the camera (video) lock up mid scene. Focus locks up.
         | Fingerprint recognition is a fail 25-50% of the time.
         | 
         | These have been known issues since release, I made the now
         | incorrect assumption these were natural bugs that would be
         | fixed over time.
         | 
         | Pixel 6 is the last phone from Google I will own. Not sure I
         | want to jump to iOS yet but things are looking increasingly
         | bleak in the Android garden
        
           | cageface wrote:
           | Around the time of the Pixel 3 Android seemed to have all the
           | momentum and Apple seemed to be flailing around trying to
           | find ways to sell even more expensive and gimmicky hardware
           | to their existing users. Since then Android seems to have
           | really stagnated and Apple has fixed most of the shortcomings
           | of their OS and introduced some good models at lower price
           | points. There are still some things I prefer about Android's
           | UX and I strongly dislike how locked down iOS is but most
           | people are probably better off buying an iPhone now.
        
           | Rastonbury wrote:
           | Same got scammed by all the reviews saying best Pixel yet and
           | a good price for flagship. Terrible software issues, I was
           | unable to make calls without 10s of a high pitch beep
           | interrupting within the first 5s, I'm glad I don't rely on my
           | phone for work calls but some people do. I had to enroll in
           | to the Beta early release to resolve it. Bluetooth dropping
           | for seconds in the car. Random extreme battery drain even
           | now. Fingerprint works about 50% of the time which is a pain
           | because I have an 8 digit pin enforced by MS Teams for work.
           | 
           | Never again
        
           | r12343a_19 wrote:
           | Oh, so there isn't a problem with my dirty fingers or
           | something. The fingerprint reader indeed works like half the
           | time.
        
         | throwaway675309 wrote:
         | Anecdotal but ever since I started using the pixel line (a
         | pixel 2 and now in pixel 4a) from the previous Nexus 5x it has
         | just been a Smorgasburg of quality control issues. The pixel 4a
         | GPS constantly has conflict issues with Bluetooth and loses
         | signal, and recently the SIM card reader disconnects
         | intermittently.
         | 
         | The only reason I haven't switched to iPhone is because the
         | speech recognition on android is light years ahead of Siri. So
         | frustrating....
        
         | dopeboy wrote:
         | Get the SE. Aside from battery life, it's great in every way.
         | Picked up the 2020 version used for $150. This is after 11
         | years on Android.
        
           | howinteresting wrote:
           | You still, in 2022, can't use uBlock Origin on iOS. It is the
           | _only_ major platform which makes it impossible to use uBlock
           | Origin.
           | 
           | edit: iOS only has static block lists a la Chrome Manifest
           | v3, not dynamic ones like uBlock Origin uses.
        
             | happyopossum wrote:
             | There are TONS of ad-blockers, and a very sophisticated and
             | comprehensive ad blocking API available on iOS. What's
             | stopping one single ad blocker from running on it?
        
               | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
               | These tons of ad blockers do a very poor job actually
               | blocking ads in Safari, unfortunately. I run AdGuard and
               | any time I'm out of my PiHole's range it's all a crapfest
               | of ads.
        
               | wombat-man wrote:
               | nextdns works real well for me.
        
               | happyopossum wrote:
               | I use 1blocker and virtually never see an ad..
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | Similar here. Have 1Blocker, Better, Purify, and the
               | Firefox Focus Safari extension and between those I rarely
               | see ads. Compared to Firefox with uBlock Origin on my
               | Windows machines I'd say the experience is about 98-99%
               | as good.
        
               | charrondev wrote:
               | I've used 1Blocker without issue for a years. I use
               | uBlock Origin on my desktop, but I can't say I remember
               | seeing ads on my mobile with 1Blocker.
        
               | abdusco wrote:
               | any recommendation for an adblocker on ios that can block
               | youtube ads?
        
               | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
               | I'm using Musi (which is designed to stream songs off
               | youtube). Behind the scenes, it likely uses mechanisms
               | akin to popular youtube downloaders, and is finicky where
               | age-restricted videos are concerned.
               | 
               | But with it, I've yet to see a single ad and it can play
               | audio from youtube in the background.
               | 
               | It can find and play playlists but has a poor story of
               | following channels. You cannot navigate to a channel with
               | it and binge on videos from it.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Wipr works most of the time for me.
        
               | happyopossum wrote:
               | 1Blocker or magic lasso seem to do the trick for me
        
               | LaputanMachine wrote:
               | "Vinegar - Tube Cleaner" blocks all YouTube ads in
               | Safari.
               | 
               | It also replaces YouTube's video player with the native
               | HTML5 player, so you can play videos in the background or
               | watch them in picture-in-picture mode.
               | 
               | Vinegar can also be used together with Sponsorblock for a
               | completely ad-free experience. It's a difference as night
               | and day.
        
               | nzentzis wrote:
               | Thank you for this recommendation - I'm planning to
               | switch platforms in a few weeks, and blocking YT ads was
               | one of the big open questions I still had.
        
         | DangitBobby wrote:
         | I am so disappointed to hear that. The Pixel 3 was the best
         | phone ever made as far as I'm concerned, and the 5 is not too
         | shabby. Now I'm worried I'll have to look for another non-
         | Samsung phone line when this phone needs to be replaced.
        
           | jhot wrote:
           | There is a lot of complaints against the 6 in this post so
           | maybe it sucks but I've been super pleased with mine after
           | upgrading from the 3a. I am running GrapheneOS but that
           | shouldn't shield me from hardware issues which I haven't
           | noticed any. My wife just got a 6a and so far so good with it
           | as well.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | Just from watching Google the past few years I'm starting to
         | wonder if the company has completely de-prioritized hardware.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Steltek wrote:
       | Whoa. My spouse was unable to dial 911 in the US once (probably
       | the only time it was tried on that phone). Thankfully it wasn't a
       | life-or-death, get-me-to-the-ER emergency and we just used my
       | phone (Pixel 3). We thought it was an isolated bug on just that
       | phone but this sounds super dangerous now.
       | 
       | How can this still exist?
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | > How can this still exist?
         | 
         | Engagement numbers for this feature is very low. No promotion
         | opportunities.
        
       | vhold wrote:
       | Reminds me of how my Windows Mobile phone over 20 years ago would
       | sometimes bring up the dialpad without the "9" available, which
       | was the last straw for me and got me to switch.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | There's another thing to keep in mind: Bluetooth.
       | 
       | I was biking and noticed a fire so I called the emergency number.
       | I didn't notice that I had my Bluetooth headset connected to the
       | phone, since I was listening to a podcast maybe half an hour
       | earlier during the ride but never use it for talking on the
       | phone.
       | 
       | So I didn't even hear the ringing an nothing, I was wondering if
       | something was broken, until I realized that it was using the
       | headset for the call.
       | 
       | In the end this was no problem because I noticed fast enough, but
       | what became a problem was notifying my location.
       | 
       | I started passing him the Plus Code which was the first thing
       | shown on the emergency screen: the call center person got annoyed
       | asking me what I was reading to him. So I opted to read him the
       | full GPS coordinates, where he then told me that this appears to
       | be a completely different location from what I described him
       | before resorting to the Plus Code.
       | 
       | Then there is a map on the screen which you have to tap on in
       | order to get a full map view with street names, which finally
       | helped passing the location.
       | 
       | It was a horrible experience in the sense that this technology
       | seemed to make it more complicated while under stress.
       | 
       | Why show Plus Codes if they are not an agreed upon standard? Why
       | not show me the nearest street names, which in my case was a bit
       | problematic because I was on a field, but highlight and name some
       | well known POI's, after all, Google has a huge database of ranked
       | POIs. Something like "One third between POI 1 and POI 2".
        
       | cush wrote:
       | A phone without basic emergency service access should be
       | recalled. Google has no intention on fixing it, they might as
       | well save themselves further liability
        
       | hda111 wrote:
       | Is this because of the 000 number? 112 is standard in GSM and
       | should work always.
        
       | oefrha wrote:
       | Remember when Microsoft Teams on Android, a userland application,
       | would block emergency calls? [1] Guess the asinine emergency call
       | system still isn't properly fixed after that incident.
       | 
       | [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11496917?hl=en
       | (Pretty sure there was a big thread here, but somehow can't find
       | it now.)
        
         | JadoJodo wrote:
         | > Pretty sure there was a big thread here, but somehow can't
         | find it now.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492884
        
       | IAmLiterallyAB wrote:
       | This is the first phone running a Google chipset, and Google CPU.
       | And a Google modem I believe. Their previous phones were Qualcomm
       | based. I imagine a lot of the issues people are seeing are
       | related to that, a mix of hardware flaws and driver bugs.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jasec57322 wrote:
       | I'm currently using a 6 year old phone. Now that I don't take
       | many photos and use it lightly - it actually performs far better
       | than the previous 3 new phones I had - 2 of which were flagships.
       | The S22 I sent back had worse battery-life than my current phone
       | - it was doing heavy background-work, despite having all the
       | battery-optimal settings enabled.
       | 
       | To the point: New phones are way too big, too power-hungry, the
       | newer they get the more 'features' they have that I didn't ask
       | for and don't want - not least is the data mining by everybody
       | under the sun at the firmware level.
       | 
       | I've given up buying new phones. When this one cunks-out I'll buy
       | an old-used one. That is unless there comes a real alternative to
       | increasingly crappy android & the above issues are resolved.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | I prefer phones that are still getting security updates.
         | 
         | You talked up your phone a lot but omitted what model it is,
         | for some reason.
        
       | keewee7 wrote:
       | High-end Samsung phones are the only reason I'm still on Android.
       | 
       | Google (Pixel), One Plus, Huawei, and most other Android phone
       | designers/manufacturers have not been able to reach Samsung/Apple
       | quality for the past five or more years.
        
         | ratg13 wrote:
         | Same, but I'm so done with the uninstallable facebook apps.
         | 
         | When I got my galaxy 10 I went in and disabled all the facebook
         | apps since you can't uninstall them. I went an checked the
         | status a year later, and the original ones were still disabled,
         | but they had pushed additional facebook apps to me behind the
         | scenes without me knowing.
         | 
         | I don't get why samsung needs facebook money this badly to
         | invade their customer's privacy.
         | 
         | Now it's time to upgrade and I'm reluctant to buy Samsung,
         | Pixel seems to be garbage .. not sure where to turn next.
        
         | dilyevsky wrote:
         | It's hilarious that internally googlers always used to poo poo
         | vendors in private conversations but imo you're absolutely
         | right - samsung essentially holds the whole brand afloat.
         | Although not by choice - they tried replacing android and
         | failed miserably
        
           | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
           | Which is embarrassing, because they're one of the most
           | insecure vendors...
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | They sort of succeeded though with replacing Android Wear
        
       | rabbidruster wrote:
       | I have the pixel 6 Pro. By far the worse phone I've ever had.
       | It's unable to hold a consistent phone conversation and I'll
       | often cut out so the person on the other end can't hear me. Did a
       | RMA and the new phone has the same problem. Support is also
       | difficult to deal with. Ive been a loyal pixel owner until now,
       | but can no longer recommend anyone buy a pixel phone.
        
       | jquast wrote:
       | The only reason I carry a cellphone with me in many situations is
       | just in case of an emergency. I wouldn't take it for walks, to
       | the store, out to eat, and definitely not while driving, but only
       | for the safety of myself and others around me, it could save
       | someone's life. It's the only feature of a cellphone that I need,
       | everything else is secondary.
       | 
       | That they can't care enough to address this issue is reason
       | enough to swear off google completely. They must be so very cold-
       | hearted, fish stinks from the head and all that.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Let's face it nowadays smartphones are more like cameras with an
       | internet connection
        
       | dessant wrote:
       | The repeated negligence around the handling of Android bugs
       | related to emergency calls should result in criminal prosecution.
       | It's unlikely that actual people weren't hurt because of these
       | bugs. They have known about these issues for years, and they
       | continue to give them the importance of an unresponsive button in
       | Gmail settings.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29492884
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/rfld6m/pixel_p...
        
         | dekerta wrote:
         | I got a Pixel6 in July. Aside from the camera, it is by far the
         | worst phone I've ever owned. I probably experience at least 4
         | or 5 major crashes every day where the phone becomes
         | unresponsive for a few seconds.
         | 
         | Up until now, I've been able to live with the bugs as a
         | moderate inconvenience, but now that I know I could potentially
         | die because of Google's complete lack of QA, I'm going to ditch
         | the phone right away. I'll never buy a Google device again.
         | What a waste of money
        
           | tetromino_ wrote:
           | Counter-anecdote: I got a Pixel 6 pro at launch. With the
           | very notable exception of multi week delays in some security
           | updates, it has been the best phone I have ever owned. Great
           | camera, great screen, great battery life, no stability
           | problems, and most importantly, no overheating after which
           | plagued older Pixels under heavy usage.
           | 
           | But YMMV - based on a perusal of forum posts, it seems that
           | one's experience, among other things, depends on one's
           | geographic region (which may be a proxy for the exact
           | firmware model of your device). Mine is a US model, intended
           | for Google Fi. A disproportionate number of complaints seem
           | to be from users in certain EU countries.
        
             | dzikimarian wrote:
             | I've one from EU distribution for over half a year now.
             | There were some very minor issues with the interface at the
             | beginning(removed with updates later). Apart from that all
             | is great. If there are multiple crashes per day I would get
             | it replaced, because it's clearly faulty unit.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | It's a high value connected device with error reporting.
               | 
               | If it were crashing multiple times per day, you'd hope
               | that Google would proactively contact the user and offer
               | a replacement.
        
               | delusional wrote:
               | That's a cool idea. Using the telemetry to find
               | (unusually) faulty hardware and reaching out to the
               | customers to proactively offer a replacement could be
               | some next level customer service.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | One can dream ...
        
             | npc12345 wrote:
             | What processor does yours have?
        
             | bb88 wrote:
             | Yes and no. The big issue with me is the fingerprint reader
             | behind the screen doesn't always work, and am resorting to
             | punching in my pin about half the time.
             | 
             | The Pixel 2 fingerprint reader on the back was the fastest.
             | The Pixel 4 face recognition was often faster than the
             | Pixel 6.
             | 
             | Also I use google assistant for driving to get navigation,
             | and when it screws up the destination instead of one step
             | to fix it, it's usually two more steps or more. (e.g. "1201
             | Eighth St" vs "1201 State St" and others)
        
           | mschild wrote:
           | I would recommend trying GrapheneOS. Easy to install on
           | Pixels and have heard great things. The OS focus is on
           | Privacy and Security which can come with some cutbacks but
           | still might be worth it to you
        
           | soulofmischief wrote:
           | Welcome to the club. The 3a was the best phone I ever owned.
           | Then it broke (my fault) and after going through 3 bunk
           | replacements in a row, I realized that Google literally does
           | zero QA and stopped trying.
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | Maybe the Pixel 3 was better, but I still have a Pixel 2 XL
             | which came with a USB-C-to-headphone adapter which simply
             | _does not work_ , and also it's very picky about which USB
             | ports it will connect to - it seems to prefer USB-C. Once
             | you get over these issues though, it's an Ok phone...
        
               | soulofmischief wrote:
               | A defining feature of the 3a (despite being perfect for
               | my baby hands) was a built-in headphone jack, which is
               | now considered a "budget" feature :-)
        
           | ssizn wrote:
           | I don't understand how could you pay such a vast amount of
           | money for a phone that is not even subpar... it is unusable
           | by your own testimony. Not trying to be snarky or anything,
           | but why didn't you return it?
        
             | corndoge wrote:
             | All phones have these problems. Every phone has glaring
             | problems you have to live with or work around.
        
               | mnd999 wrote:
               | Maybe in the Android world they do (but I kinda doubt
               | it), but certainly not in the Apple ecosystem.
        
               | IntelMiner wrote:
               | It depends on your definition of problems. For Android
               | users Apple's ... _design intentions_ are unpalatable
        
               | beached_whale wrote:
               | For quite a few Android/iphone users it was the free
               | phone their employer could get at the time with their
               | corporate plan
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | As a fairly long time Android user (Android 2.2 -> 12
               | from various manufacturers), the iPhone 13 Mini in my
               | pocket works really well.
               | 
               | I honestly can't even say one is better than the other,
               | just different, and they've mostly stolen the good ideas
               | from each other over the years anyway.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | I had my fair share of iOS bugs as well, the worst ones
               | are clearly the broken account syncs
        
               | sieabahlpark wrote:
               | Don't know what you're talking about. My pixel 6 pro or
               | whatever works great and the pixel 5 I have works fine.
               | 
               | "All phones have these problems" is just false.
        
               | agileAlligator wrote:
               | > All phones have these problems. Every phone has glaring
               | problems you have to live with or work around.
               | 
               | No?
        
               | dsr_ wrote:
               | Danger Sidekick II
               | 
               | Palm Treo 700
               | 
               | Motorola Droid
               | 
               | Samsung Galaxy Nexus
               | 
               | LG G2
               | 
               | Google Nexus 6P
               | 
               | Google Pixel XL
               | 
               | OnePlus 7Pro
               | 
               | None of them had glaring problems I had to live with or
               | work around.
               | 
               | The battery life up until the LG G2 was a problem -- I
               | usually needed to recharge mid-day if I was doing
               | anything active. The G2 had the best form factor ever --
               | honestly, they should have kept the external dimensions
               | the same and just improved the internals each year. 5.2"
               | screen, 460 ppi. 138.5 x 70.9 x 8.9 mm. 143g. Eventually
               | it developed a touchscreen fault that slowly spread.
               | 
               | The Nexus 6P was a great phone, but big. It developed
               | battery problems after about a year. Up until then, fine.
               | 
               | The Pixel XL was a little disappointing because it didn't
               | really feel like much of an advance, but it didn't have
               | the battery problem.
               | 
               | I'm still using the 7 Pro, which, for a bigphone, is not
               | bad. It has the excellent motorized pop-up selfie cam,
               | which I like because I hardly ever use it. When I do use
               | it, it deploys quickly. Battery life is starting to
               | degrade (2.5 years in) and I'm thinking about either a
               | Pixel 7 or an Asus Zenphone 9 this fall.
               | 
               | So, no. Not every phone has glaring problems.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Phone quality is uneven with some OEMs consistently
               | producing crap and others sometimes laying eggs. Your
               | sample size is likely small. Many people don't buy a new
               | phone until the old one doesn't work anymore. So you
               | could trivially have only experienced 2-3 phones total.
               | It would be trivial then to conclude all phones have
               | these problems even though its not so.
               | 
               | Try a Motorola or a well reviewed model from another
               | manufacture paying attention especially to people's
               | complaints and whether or not they represent legit flaws.
               | Spend at least 30 minutes reading reviews before you buy.
        
               | buffet_overflow wrote:
               | Across several android and iOS phones (including some of
               | the first android phones in the US market), I have not
               | personally experienced issues anything close to what I've
               | read about from the Pixel line.
               | 
               | We need to push manufacturers to be better, especially
               | about providing timely and stable OS updates.
        
               | LinAGKar wrote:
               | I have, on OnePlus
        
               | to11mtm wrote:
               | I more or less agree.
               | 
               | I have two exceptions that come to mind... My Galaxy J7
               | (Original version) was a lovely little device that still
               | works, aside from lack of updates from the mfg. It wasn't
               | fancy or fast, but it was cheap and has been able to do
               | what I needed it to.
               | 
               | I bring that one up specifically because it wasn't a
               | 'flagship' phone which tend to be as polished as possible
               | (although often wind up with quirks on/related to new
               | features), but a cheapish low to midrange (which often
               | see problems around hardware choices and/or bugs around
               | software for said hardware choices [^0])
               | 
               | I'm also going to give the 'WTF' shout-out to the
               | Original Nexus 7 with HSPA+, you had to jump through some
               | hilarious hoops to make it a device usable as a 'phone',
               | and talking on it was something that became a meme among
               | my colleagues... yet sadly was more 'reliable' than most
               | of the HTC/LG shitshows of the day.
               | 
               | For a number of years, I was on a 'tiered' setup where my
               | phones were WinPho, and I had either the aforementioned
               | Nexus, or later a Samsung Galaxy Tab for my android
               | 'needs'. The WinPhos sucked from an app standpoint but
               | were otherwise the best 'smart phones' IMO between
               | 2012-2016 [^1][^2]
               | 
               | [^0] I often wonder how many problems are related to
               | firmware bugs versus a problem with the underlying
               | hardware. As an example from another semi-related sector,
               | consider the Intel Puma 6. You can try to mask some/most
               | of the problems in firmware, but at the end of the day
               | the design has a problem. Sometimes I wonder whether the
               | extremely aggressive release cycle of phones is/was a way
               | to 'mask' the problem.
               | 
               | [^1] Here! was far superior to Google navigation IMO,
               | even had offline map downloading before it was cool. Call
               | quality was always good, none of the weird drops/bugs I'd
               | see on android, SMS was good except dual sim support on
               | the late models.
               | 
               | [^2] I'll admit I don't really use iPhone. I buy them for
               | my dad (he loved his WinPho for the simplicity and tile
               | interface, but 'I like this too!' so that is what he
               | sticks with now).
        
               | duxup wrote:
               | > Every phone has glaring problems you have to live with
               | or work around.
               | 
               | I can only think of one phone i have used that has what I
               | would characterize as "glaring problems".
        
               | RowanH wrote:
               | I've now got quite a few phones on my desk (6 right now)
               | plus all the other historical ones. It's surprising to
               | see the differences, quirks, and little gems. My main
               | phone has now become an 13 Pro Max, it's solid, reliable
               | and smooth (but my main reason was the camera/video
               | quality). While features might be hidden via gestures I
               | don't think I've ever seen a problem or bug with anything
               | - certainly nothing that is repeated or sticks out in my
               | mind.
               | 
               | But that said the functionality of Android is much wider
               | in scope, which is a blessing and a curse.
               | 
               | For my startup one of the core features is uploading
               | photos/videos, and lots of them.. getting to know how
               | each platform deals with background processes has been
               | very eye opening. Apple : there's a couple of ways, it's
               | on our terms, maybe, if we feel up to the task - but you
               | know what you're getting. Android : here's the kazillion
               | different changing API's on how to do it... you'll get
               | there with better performance of what you want (maybe)
               | but good luck navigating the landscape !
               | 
               | I suspect Androids eco system problems is just keeping up
               | with ever changing APIs, or learning what worked fine on
               | your Sony xperia 1 ii, fails miserably on your first
               | customers Samsung S20.... then realising you're doing it
               | wrong on the apis, then re-writing it, then the api's
               | change....
               | 
               | So the chance of app bugs is far, far higher in Android.
        
               | victornomad wrote:
               | As a person that has been dealing with Android
               | programming since version 1.6 I have to say that things
               | got very stable since version 4.4 Kitkat. That's 9 years
               | ago...
               | 
               | The ecosystem has improved, and added a bunch of new
               | optional stuff, a new language, a new way of making UIs,
               | etc. Retrocompatibility is still very good.
        
           | victornomad wrote:
           | I totally agree with that. Got the pixel 6 after a Pixel 2
           | and Pixel 4a. The first thing I didnt like was the size. I
           | find it VERY uncomfortable to handle, and also very heavy!
           | 
           | I also had many problems with it. Heating, unresponsiveness,
           | and after getting the latest upgrade to Android 13 it got
           | even worse.
           | 
           | That was my last Pixel phone and probably my last Android.
        
             | RichardCA wrote:
             | I went through a similar process. I ended up getting a
             | Pixel 5, they are still being sold new-in-box on Amazon. I
             | really liked the size and weight of the 4a but wanted
             | something that had 5G support. The 5 is actually smaller
             | and lighter than both the 4a 5G and 5a 5G. Very thankful to
             | the folks who run gsmarena.com, it's extremely helpful for
             | this sort of thing.
        
           | agildehaus wrote:
           | I own a Pixel 6 and can't recall the last time I experienced
           | a crash of any sort.
        
             | desmosxxx wrote:
             | Mine doesn't crash (anymore, it did when v12 came out), but
             | it my cell/data goes offline randomly and I get worse
             | service than my peers in many places. It also overheats
             | when exposed to almost any sunlight at all no matter the
             | ambient temperature (it's overheated in my car with the ac
             | on and no case) or when charging and doing a video call at
             | the same time.
             | 
             | I can remember my Nexus 4 and note 5 being solid phones,
             | but every android phone I've had after that has been awful
             | in one way or another.
             | 
             | The final straw for me has been android auto on this phone.
             | Completely unusable and unsafe. So many crashes and
             | lockups. At this point I'm looking at an iPhone for my next
             | phone. Something like android would be nice, but I also
             | want a premium phone that works.
             | 
             | My note 5 is still going strong and is smooth and
             | responsive (except for lack of updates) and the battery
             | hasn't swelled or anything.
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | Same
        
           | The_Colonel wrote:
           | My P6P is also the worst phone I can remember, but unlike
           | you, I also really dislike (main) camera. It oversharpens
           | people's faces to absurd degree in anything but optimal
           | light. Faces are discolored (often gray), wrinkles come up,
           | hair often looks kind of greasy. (for landscapes the camera
           | is pretty good though)
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | I don't dislike Pixel hardware because it's the only phone
             | supported by GrapheneOS, which makes Android tolerable.
             | 
             | But the software is ridiculous in some regards. I bought an
             | Pixel sometime ago, new in a box from Google, and it took
             | two battery charges to go through a gazillion of OTA
             | updates to get it to the latest Android. I know I could
             | have plugged it in and flashed the latest ROM directly, but
             | is a normal user supposed to do that? It seems that nobody
             | cares at Google.
             | 
             | Aside from this, if you look into the network dump of a
             | brand new Pixel it is scary / amazing how many connections
             | it is doing every day. And nobody knows why it's
             | connecting...
             | 
             | I wish SailfishOS became a bit more polished to be a viable
             | alternative to iOS and Android. It's almost there. It
             | passes the above test with flying colors, it's completely
             | silent. Just an NTP connection every 12 h. The UI is a joy
             | to use, reminiscent of the N9, and a few great indie
             | developers.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | >And nobody knows why it's connecting...
               | 
               | I highly doubt that. I'm sure the people that wrote the
               | code know exactly what it is doing. Does the number of
               | knowledgable coders vs the poplulation of the planet
               | approach nobody when rounding?
        
               | nextos wrote:
               | I meant users.
        
               | neilv wrote:
               | I was happy with GrapheneOS on Pixel 3, and would still
               | use it except it's EOL for some firmware security
               | updates.
               | 
               | The Pixel 4a hardware I then got (didn't want a 4) is
               | fine with GrapheneOS, though an "a", and I prefer the 3.
               | 
               | The Pixel 5 seems OK so far, though the display colors on
               | this particular unit (don't know about the model) are
               | noticeably less vibrant than the 3.
               | 
               | I hope GrapheneOS keeps going on a good path, and that
               | there's an appealing option for hardware after the Pixel
               | 5. (I can't yet justify the cost of a non-backordered
               | Librem 5, for how little I use a smartphone, and I have
               | mixed feelings about the PinePhones.)
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Why would Google "care" about a phone that sells only an
               | inconsequential 2 million a quarter? If they make 4
               | billion a year in revenue on selling Pixel phones, that
               | is around a quarter of how much Google reportedly pays
               | Apple to be the default search engine on iOS devices.
               | 
               | In other words, Apple makes more from Google in mobile
               | than Google makes from selling Pixels.
        
               | to11mtm wrote:
               | > It seems that nobody cares at Google.
               | 
               | My dystopian response is that they know if you're going
               | 'all in' on their branded phone you are either geeky
               | enough to deal with it, or drank too much kool-aid to
               | care.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | It certainly has contributed to harm
         | 
         | https://reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/wpirx8/had_an_emer...
         | 
         | The Australian government really needs to get involved and
         | force Google to fix their shit
        
         | to11mtm wrote:
         | Oh they know. I've had call issues (that included ability to
         | make emergency calls) since the G1 days. Oftentimes it is a
         | diceroll between the firmware of the MFG and the version of
         | android.
         | 
         | One of the things I miss most about WinPho is the reliability
         | of their phone/sms stack (well, except for near the end of
         | WP10, things got weird)
        
         | bjt2n3904 wrote:
         | > criminal prosecution
         | 
         | Steady now. I don't think you want that.
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | As a developer, I worry about this. However, I also don't
           | work on systems that could cause anyone a level of harm
           | resulting in criminal damage. If I did, I'd like to think I'd
           | increase the care I put into my craft 1000x. I realize that's
           | not doable in many companies, and that's the problem. Too
           | many companies taking the "move fast and break things"
           | attitude towards people's lives and safety. This is how you
           | invite the big foot of government regulation.
        
             | 41b696ef1113 wrote:
             | I am reminded of this article [0] on how NASA develops
             | software. For things that absolutely must work, standard
             | development practices do not apply. Real Engineers do not
             | get to leave off testing for the big red emergency shut off
             | button.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-
             | stuff
        
             | michaelmrose wrote:
             | It highly probable that you are incapable of increasing the
             | care you put into your craft by 1000x as you no matter your
             | intentions because there isn't 1000x more of you to give.
             | 
             | In anything better processes and consistency beats try
             | harder 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
        
               | bdcravens wrote:
               | By care I'm thinking more disciplined approaches and
               | moving very slowly with a significant increase in QA and
               | verification. Most of us, regardless of the framework,
               | time in the industry, or what letter we put in our xDD
               | methodology of choice, are flying by the seat of our
               | pants compared to most disciplines.
        
           | dessant wrote:
           | I think it's important to hold people responsible for
           | negligence that causes harm to others, even in the tech
           | industry.
        
             | bjt2n3904 wrote:
             | > It's unlikely that actual people weren't hurt because of
             | these bugs.
             | 
             | Do you want criminal prosecution for actual harm, or for
             | potential harm?
             | 
             | America has this habit of reaching for the biggest gun it
             | has to solve problems, or make a statement.
             | 
             | It always backfires.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Criminal reports for negligence that can cause death are
               | a thing around the world.
               | 
               | Pray tell, how would it backfire to make sure emergency
               | services are always available ?
        
               | freeone3000 wrote:
               | They are scared that such standards would then be applied
               | to their work.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | After reading their other comments I think they're more
               | of the mindset of "regulations mean higher cost and I
               | don't want to pay more to meet standards I don't
               | immediately care about"
        
               | chc wrote:
               | You're speaking in generalities that can hardly even be
               | mapped to the situation at hand. What, specifically, are
               | you saying is the correct recourse here? What are you
               | saying would go wrong if Google were prosecuted for
               | intentionally shipping a nonfunctional emergency feature?
        
               | hmfrh wrote:
               | > Do you want criminal prosecution for actual harm, or
               | for potential harm?
               | 
               | Do you only want DUI to be illegal if it results in an
               | accident?
        
           | desindol wrote:
           | You mean it's better to cover your devs ass instead of people
           | in an emergency?
        
           | Vervious wrote:
           | I want that. I think that refusing to fix a life-or-death bug
           | for 8 months is criminally negligent. Especially when
           | millions of Pixel 6s are out in the wild, as an essential
           | utility for millions of people.
        
           | IncandescentGas wrote:
           | Why should software companies, developers, product managers
           | and executives remain immune from consequences of willful
           | negligence, when that negligence results in real harm?
           | 
           | In college I took an Engineering Ethics class, where we
           | studied engineering mistakes resulting in deaths, and learned
           | about the investigation and prosecution of the engineers
           | involved when there was negligence.
           | 
           | The Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in particular will always
           | stay with me.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse.
        
             | ok_dad wrote:
             | I especially like the Therac-25 [0] as a good example for
             | software engineers. A literal concurrency bug between the
             | UI and radiation emitter caused at least 6 people to get
             | massive overdoses of radiation. Think about that next time
             | you're using a multi-thread/multi-process library!
             | 
             | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
        
           | libria wrote:
           | I don't know the specific law, but FCC does expect a phone to
           | be able to reach 911 (e.g., 911 Act). There must already be a
           | penalizing process or fines in place for manufacturers who
           | fail to meet basic standards.
           | 
           | I'm not sure what criminal liability would look like, though.
           | Who do we put in jail? The dev? QA? People who CR'd the bug?
           | The TPM who proposed the feature? The manager who allocated
           | time? The skip who initiated the whole project? Should they
           | share blame and multithread a 7 month sentence together and
           | do 1 month together?
           | 
           | I agree w/ you though. My company needs to alert me if any
           | LOC I'm working on could land me in prison and I'll gladly
           | switch projects. I definitely don't want that burden.
        
             | hengheng wrote:
             | Does anybody know at what point the FCC can revoke the
             | radio license of these devices? Reaching emergency services
             | seems a prerequisite for transmitting on the telephony part
             | of the spectrum, so it might be surprisingly clear.
        
             | BrianOnHN wrote:
             | Why else are Googlers paid so much? (rhetorical)
             | 
             | They need to do their damn job.
             | 
             | As a pixel 6 owner, I'm disgusted.
        
               | sieabahlpark wrote:
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | I know it was rhetorical but Googlers aren't pad so much
               | because the quality of the SW coming out of Google
               | matches the pay, but because they work for the number one
               | data scraping and advertising company in the world.
               | 
               | Yo can have the best leetcoders in the world, but if QA
               | is not part of the company culture, then ...
        
             | bjt2n3904 wrote:
             | It's abundantly clear from the replies in this thread that
             | people are thinking emotionally, not rationally.
             | 
             | They're pissed off at their phone, and reaching for the
             | biggest stick they can find -- not to fix the problem, but
             | to punish whoever caused it. Likely, they wouldn't even
             | punish the right person, it would just be a scapegoat
             | sacrificed to appease their wrath.
             | 
             | Your comment is right on the nose when it comes to thinking
             | rationally, and not emotionally.
             | 
             | A smart phone is not like the flight computers on a 747. If
             | you want guaranteed 911 access with the threat of criminal
             | prosecution if it fails, I'll happily design you a device.
             | It will cost $50k, and will have a monthly service fee of
             | $1000 per user. It won't have any other features besides
             | 911. But it will work!
             | 
             | People just don't know what they're demanding.
        
               | omginternets wrote:
               | You seem to be (intentionally?) missing the point, which
               | is that a known-dangerous bug was not promptly fixed.
               | 
               | The mental gymnastics required to turn this into
               | something other than criminal negligence are ... olympic.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | I would argue that you're the one who's having the
               | emotional reaction , not the rational one, when it comes
               | to involving authorities and legally mandated access to
               | emergency services.
               | 
               | You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here.
        
               | libria wrote:
               | > You are clearly unaware of the legal requirements here.
               | 
               |  _I_ am definitely unaware. If you do know the specific
               | law /infraction, please link to it as that would help the
               | discussion.
               | 
               | It doesn't help to vaguely hand-wave (emotionally I would
               | argue) "Someone should go to jail!!". As I asked above,
               | which people? How much jail? And what are the clearly
               | defined laws?
               | 
               | There are engineers that deal directly with code critical
               | to public safety and the amount of verification,
               | compliance, testing, authorization, permits, processes,
               | legal reviews, etc involved in that pipeline increase
               | costs and delays 10-fold, but they are extremely safe and
               | reliable.
               | 
               | Not saying we shouldn't do this for an emergency device,
               | but it most certainly will not be cost-free, few
               | engineers would want to be involved and consumers will
               | not want to buy it.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | First of all...did you change to an alt account? I don't
               | see libria anywhere in my reply chain above but you're
               | responding as if you're bjt2n3904
               | 
               | Secondly nobody mentioned jail. Criminal investigation
               | doesn't mean jail time especially for corporations.
               | Criminal negligence can just mean fines and a requirement
               | to resolve the issue
               | 
               | You're also acting as if people are saying the whole
               | device and all software should be infallible. That's not
               | the requirement. Legally any cellular device needs to be
               | able to contact emergency services as long as there are
               | no extenuating circumstances (dead battery, no
               | connectivity).
               | 
               | This is federally mandated in many countries. That Google
               | has repeated failures to do so, across multiple countries
               | and across a long period of time means that they are in
               | violation of government rules.
               | 
               | You're being intentionally obtuse on these points.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | All phones likely have bugs which could lead to crashes
               | which means it could in theory just happen to experience
               | an issue concurrently with the users attempting to call
               | 911 resulting in a failure. However your base image
               | should have few to zero such bugs and such failures just
               | happening to coincide with an emergency call are or ought
               | to be statistically very unlikely.
               | 
               | The issue is not that a crash could happen its that a
               | specific crash happens specifically when the user tries
               | to place an emergency call triggered by the code that is
               | supposed to run when the user makes such a call making
               | failure statistically much more likely. Worse this has
               | been a known issue since 2021.
               | 
               | People aren't asking for space shuttle quality
               | engineering they are asking for the same statistical
               | probability of failure as any other good quality phone.
               | It is deeply ironic that while you insist others don't
               | know what they are demanding you clearly have no idea
               | what they are demanding.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | >A smart phone is not like the flight computers on a 747.
               | 
               | You're right. They're about as reliable as the flight
               | computers on a 737 Max instead
        
               | verisimilitudes wrote:
               | It's really disgusting to see someone argue that people
               | don't want to pay for quality, when old phones worked.
               | Now, the pilpul here will be to claim that those old
               | phones totally didn't _actually_ work, they just appeared
               | to basically always work, so it 's _totally_ the same
               | thing; it 's not.
               | 
               | The fact of the matter is that old phones may not have
               | been formally-proven to work, but basically worked. The
               | new phones aren't formally-proven to work, and basically
               | don't.
               | 
               | > People just don't know what they're demanding.
               | 
               | As a programmer, I want the cretins claiming to be
               | programmers to face justice for their disgusting work,
               | about which they're so smug and condescending.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | dessant wrote:
               | There is a difference between initial product design
               | (also needs to follow regulations, but not the main topic
               | of discussion), and failure to act on repeated bug
               | reports spanning years that clearly describe software
               | bugs which disrupt emergency calls on Android phones.
               | There is not much to defend in their conduct.
        
             | djbusby wrote:
             | Fine the company $1 per unit sold per day until the 911
             | feature is fixed.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | $1 per day per user maybe might get someone's attention
        
             | bongoman37 wrote:
        
           | sophacles wrote:
           | Why not? I like the laws that have been passed to ensure that
           | people are able to contact emergency services. I think
           | enforcing those laws is logical, given that they exist and
           | imho they exist for good reason.
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Yesterday I was reading it is because Google pay such a low
         | salary. If they increase it to like 3x-4x of current, all bugs
         | will disappear on their own.
        
           | kieselguhr_kid wrote:
           | I know this is some kind of sarcasm but I'm not sure what
           | kind of sarcasm it is.
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | Well, I am reminded on this forum very often that any poor
             | software product is most likely because developers are not
             | compensated fairly for their work.
        
       | ipaddr wrote:
       | Make sense no one wants to qa this section
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | I'm basically locked into Pixels because of GrapheneOS/CalyxOS,
       | the best experience you can get for a privacy friendly phone.
       | 
       | The software is great, the camera is amazing, and the battery is
       | good too, the only problem is the display on my Pixel 4XL.
       | 
       | IOS is a hot garbage prison, to the point its users dream of
       | something like newpipe, and the FOSS scene is basically
       | nonexistent, also Apple doesn't care about your privacy, I will
       | never switch.
       | 
       | All other phones are either filled with gimicky things, have
       | crappy designs(one ui isn't great compared to stock android) and
       | nothing is private like CalyxOS/GrapheneOS.
       | 
       | And yes payment apps/SafetyNet works on Calyx!
       | 
       | Since Pixel 6 doesn't seem to be great, I will probably upgrade
       | to PXL7/8, though there are some enticing deals on the normal
       | Pixel 6.
        
         | fyloraspit wrote:
         | Same here but I have the Pixel 5. It's been a great experience
         | for me.
        
       | bubblethink wrote:
       | How do we know that it's Google's fault ? There are so many
       | variables here. We should ask for automated testing numbers. At
       | least in the US, there isn't one. It requires special manual work
       | to make a test call to 911.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | If something can interfere with making a emergency call on a
         | Google phone it's definitely Google's fault.
         | 
         | It's their job to make sure it works in all circumstances
        
       | martin_a wrote:
       | Calling emergency services is of course a premium feature (Pixel
       | 6 PRO), I don't get the fuss everybody's making around here.
       | 
       | Seriously: I'm shocked that such basic functionality does not
       | work due to some "oh, let's make a gimmick here" thing.
        
       | newhotelowner wrote:
       | My pixel 6 misses to dial regular numbers a lot of times. The app
       | just stays on dialing and then quits. There is no error, nothing.
       | It should at least throw an error.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | On the side note I thought Android has very few bugs probably
       | because I don't use my Android phone a lot but I encountered one
       | pretty annoying bug last week and I was unpleasantly surprised.
        
       | zahllos wrote:
       | I own a pixel 6 (not the pro model), and I also regret it. I've
       | never needed to call the emergency services but I do find
       | relatively frequent network drops: one moment it has a 5G or LTE
       | connection, the next it is unable to find access to the network.
       | 
       | This is in Switzerland on the 'flagship' carrier Swisscom.
       | Swisscom are generally regarded as having the best overall
       | coverage in Switzerland, helped by the fact they used to be the
       | "PTT" i.e. a national enterprise as part of the Swiss Post. They
       | operate Ericsson hardware, and Switzerland has lower power
       | maximums for mobile operators compared to many European
       | countries, resulting in a higher density of antennae. I'm also
       | not talking about challenging environments like the mountains:
       | I'm saying my Pixel 6 routinely drops 5G in the centre of cities
       | like Geneva, Bern or Zurich. One of which happens to host a
       | reasonably large Google office, so you'd figure they'd notice
       | issues like this.
       | 
       | I've tried reflashing the OS from scratch, upgrading to beta
       | versions of 'Carrier Services' etc. The issue appears to have
       | improved over time and happens less frequently, but it still
       | certainly happens.
       | 
       | My original plan was to eventually move to GrapheneOS but I'm now
       | unsure, as I can't tell if this is the quality of stock android
       | and the pixel hardware, and I'm rethinking my options.
        
         | Nergg wrote:
         | I also live in Switzerland and using Swisscom network. I have a
         | pixel 4a, so I don't use 5g but the phone is really bad with
         | finding network. I also experiment weird bugs like today it was
         | impossible to watch tv online (rts) on my pixel but it was
         | working on my friend iPhone. I hate to be trapped in Apple
         | ecosystem but Google products are so buggy... I bought a Nest
         | Google assistant last week and it can't understand the most
         | basic queries... I spent hours trying to configure it and
         | reseting, always failed at some point.
         | 
         | I think Google doesn't care about other language than English
         | and doesn't care about Swiss market (they don't even sell their
         | phone on the Swiss google shop).
         | 
         | I thought about going Samsung but Exynos, privacy issue, and
         | their stupid marketing doesn't help...
         | 
         | GrapheneOS and other privacy focus OS seems nice on paper but a
         | lot of time spent to make it work.
         | 
         | I guess I'll wait iPhone 14 keynote and Pixel 7 before making a
         | choice.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | amir734jj wrote:
       | I switched to pixel 6 from pixel 4 and it was buggy to the point
       | that I had to give away my pixel 6. Then I bought new still in
       | box pixel 3 and I'm happy again.
        
         | DangitBobby wrote:
         | Is it still getting updates?
        
           | rozenmd wrote:
           | No - I have a Pixel 3 as well and the last uptime was last
           | October or so
        
           | dpkirchner wrote:
           | No, the 3 was abandoned a little over four years after its
           | release.
        
             | MereInterest wrote:
             | And the more relevant date: not even 2.5 years between the
             | Pixel 3 being the actively promoted flagship device and
             | being declared obsolete by virtue of dropping security
             | updates.
        
           | 3434111 wrote:
        
           | rch wrote:
           | Pixel 5 is still solid. I skipped the 6 because of comments
           | on HN, but I'll probably have to update to the 7 when it
           | comes out.
           | 
           | In the meantime, I'd also like to try the Librem 5 US. This
           | thread is convincing me to give it a shot anyway.
        
       | scottmcdot wrote:
       | If I test dial 000 will it immediately go to an operator? Or do I
       | have a few seconds to hang up?
        
         | hx833001 wrote:
         | In the US dialing 911 will connect immediately and if you hang
         | up they call you back.
        
       | edmcnulty101 wrote:
       | I have zero issues with my Pixel 6. It's an awesome phone and I
       | really like it.
       | 
       | However, I just bought it a few months ago, so maybe they fixed a
       | lot of stuff.
        
         | ineedtosleep wrote:
         | Same and just wanted to echo it amid the Android hate that's
         | bombarded this thread. Sure it has its warts, but the amount of
         | hyperbole here about it being "the worst phone ever" is
         | unwarranted.
        
           | curiousgal wrote:
           | It is not the worst phone ever. It is the worst Pixel ever.
        
         | davesque wrote:
         | Yeah, me too. Zero problems. I've also successfully dialed 911
         | with it. Though it was in Seattle so I got put on hold for 5
         | minutes ^_^. I guess the linked thread says the issue is in
         | Australia.
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | Out of curiosity has anyone tried GrapheneOS [1] on the pixel 6?
       | Does it fix these problems or is this strictly a
       | hardware/firmware issue?
       | 
       | [1] - https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
        
       | 0goel0 wrote:
       | "...in Australia"
       | 
       | How is this not a S1 P0 that requires an emergency hot patch from
       | Google? AU should ban pixel phone sales until this is fixed.
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | This problem is apparently years old and happens in many
       | countries. Given the liability associated I'm surprised Google
       | hasn't fixed it.
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/wpirx8/had_an_...
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/ti8o8f/diallin...
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/GooglePixel/comments/rfld6m/pixel_p...
        
         | jl6 wrote:
         | It has all the characteristics of a bug that you can just feel
         | in your bones will never get fixed:
         | 
         | * Intermittent.
         | 
         | * Affects only some users.
         | 
         | * Possible link to a hardware problem
         | 
         | * Vendor track record of only putting serious effort into
         | development of new products, not maintenance of existing
         | products.
         | 
         | That's some weighty inertia to overcome, but maybe the prospect
         | of legal liability will manage it.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | I don't know enough about the emergency service requirements
           | but it sounds like the issue is in the data Google are trying
           | to query before connecting the call.
           | 
           | They likely have a blocking function somewhere that they
           | should be running concurrently or falling back to a cache
           | after a timeout.
           | 
           | Given how widespread this is in the comments on Reddit , I'm
           | sure they must have enough user logs to pinpoint it.
        
           | 5d8767c68926 wrote:
           | This is making me furious. I do not think I have ever called
           | 911, but it is one of those safety features I thought I could
           | fully expect to work when needed.
           | 
           | I have only ever used Android, but this is going to be my
           | final such device. I have accepted a lot of rough edges over
           | the years, but this wilful negligence regarding safety
           | features is where I am drawing the line. At least with Apple
           | I will not have to hope that maintaining Emergency Services
           | will get someone promoted.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | It also is very weird that this bug even made it to production
         | once because the standards explicitly require phone to call
         | emergency services even if no SIM card is present.
        
       | bspammer wrote:
       | The fact that this has stuck around so long feels like a
       | consequence of triaging your bugs purely by the number of
       | affected users. After all, likely less than 0.1% of users ever
       | run into this bug, it can't be that big of an issue right?
        
       | anticensor wrote:
       | Did you try using +44 118 999 88199 9119 725 3 instead?
        
       | washadjeffmad wrote:
       | Does anyone have details on the internals of Google's customer
       | support orgs? They seem to have taken to heart compliance with
       | only bare minimum legal requirements over the past four or five
       | years.
       | 
       | And given that it's now also impossible to engage support on
       | Facebook to fix account issues (I was locked out of my Oculus
       | Quest 2 after attempting to merge my Oculus dev account with the
       | Facebook account I closed in 2006), I wonder if it's time again
       | to legislate higher standards for "support".
        
       | system2 wrote:
       | Buy iPhone my friends. I spent decades defending android but
       | enough was enough.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | "decades"? Android 1.0 was released 14 years ago.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | Happy for 3 years now with my EUR120 Nokia 4.2. I doubt I will
       | ever look at the Pixel given its price and with problems like
       | these.
        
         | system2 wrote:
         | Nokia 4.2 is still android.
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | It seems this is a Pixel 6 specific issue.
        
         | everybodyknows wrote:
         | Intensely unhappy with my Nokia 5.4 for about a month now,
         | after a system update conscripted it and me into recurring DDoS
         | attacks upon the public 911 system:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32526819
        
           | lizardactivist wrote:
           | It sounds annoying, but luckily it's a configurable setting.
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | Interesting, this is why I switched from android to apple ~ 5
       | years ago.
       | 
       | I was expecting a very important phone call for the outcome of
       | the surgery of a person very close to me.
       | 
       | The smartphone, the Samsung galaxy S7 edge, finally rang, and I
       | was trying to answer the the call, but no, android was doing
       | something more important in the background, the whole UI was
       | frozen and the phone call banner was not responding to touch.
       | Finally, the phone rebooted by itself, and then it was back to
       | normal. But my call was missed.
       | 
       | I did not get to listen to my person, because my android
       | smartphone, was more smart and less phone.
        
         | system2 wrote:
         | Did the same after my samsung galaxy was freaking out every
         | week randomly. Switching to iPhone 7 was the best tech decision
         | I've ever made in the last decade. Since then I never looked
         | back. I feel sorry for android phone users and how much they
         | suffer but still cannot accept it.
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | I switched to iPhone when I learnt Android didn't have
         | encrypted storage at the time.
         | 
         | The whole Android stack is rife for criminal prosecution,
         | between GDPR, permissions, freezing when calling 911...
        
         | zls wrote:
         | After using Android for 10 years, a similar experience made me
         | switch. I'd just bought a Pixel 5, and I received a call from a
         | pizza delivery driver. I say I received a call because the
         | phone rang. Otherwise I'd never have known. The UI didn't show
         | it at all, even though it was responsive, and the missed call
         | log section never populated. Nothing except the ringer sound.
         | 
         | The next day I switched to iPhone and have never regretted it.
         | Like, if my phone can't receive calls or even capture that a
         | call was missed, none of its other features matter.
        
         | mikotodomo wrote:
         | So much this. The idea of being unable to call 911 when you
         | need it is absolutely horrifying. I'd argue that one of the
         | main reasons for owning a phone is to protect you. I think
         | Android's entire company needs to be shut down and taken over.
        
         | alyandon wrote:
         | I have similar issues sometimes with the dialer app on my Pixel
         | 2. I can't have a phone that doesn't prioritize being a phone
         | over everything else that might be competing for cpu resources
         | so my next phone is definitely going to be an iPhone.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | remram wrote:
       | My wife and I recently upgraded from Pixel 4 and we found that
       | both the 5 and 6 overheat during normal use. After browsing the
       | internet for a half hour, either phone will be too hot to hold in
       | your hand. How do phones like that get shipped?
        
       | nickpinkston wrote:
       | I got a Pixel 6 Pro a few months ago, and it's without question
       | the worst phone I've ever had the displeasure to own.
       | 
       | - It crashes constantly.
       | 
       | - Bluetooth is even buggier than usual.
       | 
       | - Fingerprint unlock is very finicky.
       | 
       | - The touchscreen isn't designed/calibrated well and leads to
       | constant fat finger presses.
       | 
       | - The hotspot is buggy to connect and randomly drops once it does
       | connect.
       | 
       | - The phone is so slick (ie low friction) that it will randomly
       | slide and fall off of slightly off-level surfaces.
       | 
       | - It feels like this was released without anyone living with the
       | phone for even a couple weeks and trying normal use cases...
       | 
       | Anyway - I've been really disappointed there haven't been updates
       | to fix some of this stuff. I've heard this may be because of
       | hardware issues, but I haven't looked that deeply. I've owned
       | Pixel phones before and like the no BS + Google Apps-centric
       | approach, but this phone really soured me on Google phones. :-(
        
         | DrudgeCorporate wrote:
         | I apparently have been living in my own bubble. Has the pixel 6
         | been a bad phone in general? I haven't had a single issue with
         | mine and I bought it day one.
        
           | whatevertrevor wrote:
           | Same here, have a pixel 6 pro and the only think I can relate
           | with is the somewhat janky fingerprint sensor. Have not had a
           | single crash, everything works smoothly.
        
           | hocuspocus wrote:
           | Lots of people have complained about the fingerprint reader,
           | poor cell reception, and recently the Android 13 update that
           | killed their battery life.
        
           | koyote wrote:
           | Same here, it's actually very weird seeing the endless posts
           | of users in places like reddit (and here now) complaining
           | about things that just never happen on my phone.
           | 
           | I've had Android phones since 1.5 and the pixel 6 has been
           | flawless for me.
        
         | wiseowise wrote:
         | Huh. I wonder where are all the Android/Pixel apologists that
         | say that to taste "real" Android you have to use Pixel. (And I
         | say that as an Android developer, before downvotes come my way)
        
           | ssizn wrote:
           | Because as shitty as pixel phones are, they are still better
           | than the rest of android phones.
        
             | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
             | Top of the line.
             | 
             | And this is coming from someone who had their display cable
             | come unclicked after a two inch drop.
             | 
             | Best, most rugged used hardware available right now.
             | 
             | Pair with GrapheneOS.org for best results.
        
           | whimsicalism wrote:
           | I think they say that about the software, not the hardware.
        
             | wiseowise wrote:
             | Literally every issue listed seems like a software issue to
             | me.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | Excited for the "friction" firmware update!
        
               | wiseowise wrote:
               | Okay, there's one hardware issue out of seven, I stand
               | corrected.
        
         | zamalek wrote:
         | I got on the Pixel rollercoaster at 1 (a great device), and got
         | off after 4. 2, 3,and (especially) 4 all either had a common
         | feature missing, or did some annoying shit. Seems like I made
         | the right choice.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, it looks like OnePlus was a poor choice. Guess
         | I'm turning to Nothing next.
        
           | hocuspocus wrote:
           | The 5 is okay.
           | 
           | After owning many Google phones since the Nexus era I think
           | Google should really focus on making good mid-range phones
           | and simply give up on the high-end entirely. It's not like
           | they're really trying to sell hardware anyway (you can't buy
           | them in most of the world) so I doubt it makes any real
           | money. The fact the Pixel line looks like a hobby project
           | year after year is just sad at this point.
        
           | Buttons840 wrote:
           | I'm still using a Pixel 1, but it's starting to die at even
           | 30% battery, and hasn't had software updates for to long.
           | Wish devices weren't designed / destined to fail.
        
         | phil21 wrote:
         | I don't have any of the crashing issues others seem to, but I
         | absolutely agree the Pixel 6 Pro was a large regression - the
         | Pixel 3 Pro was probably the best phone I've owned.
         | 
         | Fingerprint reader is inexcusably bad. I tried to just get used
         | to it, but from a form factor _and_ implementation standpoint
         | it 's a huge step back in useability.
         | 
         | Battery life is also pretty bad for the size of battery in the
         | phone. Runs hot doing anything remotely CPU intensive.
         | 
         | I'm hopeful the Pixel 7 fixes most of these regressions. If
         | not, it may be time to look at an iphone after nearly two
         | decades of resistance.
        
         | mochomocha wrote:
         | I have a non-pro version, but I can definitely relate to the
         | "too slick, it randomly slides" problem - especially bad
         | because the back camera protrudes. It's pretty ridiculous, my
         | phone ends up on the floor multiple times a day despite me
         | being the careful kind when it comes to electronics.
        
         | mda wrote:
         | As an anecdote point, I didn't have any of these issues, I
         | think standby battery drain was a bit high but after a few
         | updates it got better, still not ideal though.
        
         | jabart wrote:
         | Pixel 6 (non-pro) user here. The fingerprint unlock is a bit
         | finicky at some odd angles but none of these other issue.
         | Replaced a Pixel 3a and just feels a bit faster, 5g, and bigger
         | screen.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | Weird, I haven't noticed any of those issues and I bought my 6
         | pro used. Am I just lucky?
        
         | Tijdreiziger wrote:
         | So where do we go from here?
         | 
         | I have a Samsung Galaxy S9 at the moment, but Samsung's typo-
         | filled changelogs don't exactly inspire confidence. It has also
         | been bugging me to accept the new Samsung Account terms, which
         | I don't want to do.
         | 
         | Chinese brands (Huawei, Xiaomi, Motorola, etc.) don't inspire
         | confidence for me either.
         | 
         | Apple had the CSAM scanning controversy. I have an iPad, but a
         | bunch of features I didn't want were turned on by default, and
         | the walled garden approach is obviously a downside.
         | 
         | I would prefer to run a privacy-focused Android distribution,
         | but I have a lot of apps and I don't know how much they depend
         | on Google Play Services, so I don't really want to switch over
         | 'cold turkey'. Also, they're still built on the same AOSP base,
         | so who's to say they don't have the same bugs?
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Nokia.
           | 
           | Hardware runs a gen behind but it's fine enough with stock
           | android.
        
           | happyopossum wrote:
           | > Apple had the CSAM scanning controversy.
           | 
           | You mean like Google's recent CSAM controversy? At least
           | Apple never proposed using ML to find new CSAM and report you
           | to the police with a single violation...
        
             | vetinari wrote:
             | No, he meant Apple's CSAM controversy. Apple wanted to scan
             | files on your device, while Google scans stuff you upload
             | to their cloud.
        
               | anonuser123456 wrote:
               | Apple scans files on your device to compare against known
               | CSAM content.
               | 
               | Google scans your content for potential CSAM based on AI.
               | 
               | One can imagine the false positive rate for the Google
               | approach is likely higher.
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | Apple scans files on your device, using your resources
               | (storage, compute, power).
               | 
               | Google scans files on their devices, using their
               | resources (storage, compute power).
               | 
               | It is you who decided to upload files to Google's cloud.
               | 
               | However, it is difficult to use your own device if you
               | don't have privacy there.
        
               | anonuser123456 wrote:
               | The feature Apple proposed would only apply to files you
               | were uploading to iCloud. Turning off iCloud photos
               | prevented scanning.
               | 
               | The whole point of the Apple system was to enable end to
               | end encryption so Apple couldn't view your data on their
               | servers. The only way they could get access is when a
               | threshold of CSAM likely files were met. e.g the keys are
               | sharded.
               | 
               | With the Apple approach you have considerably more
               | privacy.
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | For now. The foot would be in door to enable it system-
               | wide.
        
               | anonuser123456 wrote:
               | Why would they care about getting a foot in a door that
               | they have the keys to and is wide open?
               | 
               | Modern SoCs have security domains that are invisible to
               | the main CPUs. Apple can run just about anything it wants
               | on the security coprocessor and users will be none the
               | wiser.
               | 
               | The American DOJ, FBI etc do not want end-to-end
               | encryption and use 'think of the children' as an excuse.
               | This gives Apple the plausible pushback to say 'We have
               | thought of the children...'
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Politicians feet not Apple's.
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | Apple don't scan files on your device, they backtracked
               | on the plan (for now at least).
        
               | anonuser123456 wrote:
               | Apple absolutely scans your files on iCloud.
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | ybeh intended to but the backlash was too strong. not a
               | vote of confidence in them either way.
        
               | Spooky23 wrote:
               | Not really.
               | 
               | It was a controversy created by a poorly written Apple
               | press release that unveiled two distinct features, and
               | subsequently ginned up by an even worse EFF blog post.
               | 
               | CSAM scanning was all about iCloud, just like every other
               | vendor, and the benefit was a roadmap to E2E storage.
               | 
               | The more confusing thing was the explicit content
               | notifications for parents for their minor children in
               | family plans.
               | 
               | So instead, just like everyone else, you almost certainly
               | have CSAM scanning happening in iCloud directly. All of
               | your content is just a subpoena away. Thanks EFF.
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | Running this kind of stuff is already leg in the door.
               | Next they can decide to scan your device even, if you
               | don't upload anything anywhere. For your safety, of
               | course, you might be in a possession of an objectionable
               | material, like photos of MAGA hats or other extremist
               | paraphernalia.
               | 
               | So this is a big red line. If you want to upload to
               | iCloud, ok, scanning there is a fair game and you can
               | always not upload to iCloud. But your device should be
               | your device, respecting your privacy.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | Apple only wanted to scan files on your device once you
               | decide to upload it. In other words, if you don't ever
               | actually upload anything nothing would ever be scanned.
        
               | vorpalhex wrote:
               | That upload that is the only way to load data onto your
               | phone for many apps, that the phone is auto-opted into
               | and that only Apple can offer? That one? The one that
               | literally no competitor can replace since it uses special
               | Apple entitlements?
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | I'm not sure what you're talking about? iOS has
               | implemented interfaces to use things like Google Drive,
               | One Drive, Dropbox, etc, baked into the file system.
        
               | vorpalhex wrote:
               | 1. There is no filesystem (exposed), there are per-app
               | sandboxes with the ability to move files from another
               | sandbox
               | 
               | 2. It only allows single file actions, no sync/offline
               | cache/etc. Most apps don't meaningfully work well with
               | this - there is no "sync these ten comics to this device
               | at all times"
               | 
               | Most apps still only use their local file sandbox.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Any application that saves files using the standard file
               | selector allows you to choose any installed storage
               | solution.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Nobody is mad about cloud providers scanning for
               | objectionable content. Everyone is mad because Apple is
               | using the hardware _you_ payed for to perform an
               | operation you 're paying them to provide. It's like
               | paying for an API that gives you the weather, and all the
               | endpoint returns is a system call for your phone's
               | thermometer.
               | 
               | It goes to show that Apple isn't afraid to undermine
               | their own experience to implement adversarial software
               | services. Combined with the way they "respect" the
               | privacy of Chinese citizens, I don't think Apple actually
               | cares about our privacy. It would seem that instead
               | they're testing the waters for more radical changes[0],
               | like using on-device machine learning to detect suicidal
               | users or terrorists. And who's going to object when
               | _that_ happens, right?
               | 
               | [0] Source: the past century of US political discourse.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | Not sure what the distinction is. Either Apple uses the
               | hardware you paid for to scan [before uploading] or uses
               | the service you paid for [during upload] to scan.
               | 
               | The practical difference is nil. The fact of the matter
               | is, either way, if you don't upload you won't be scanned,
               | if you do upload you will be. End result is the same
               | regardless of whether you use OneDrive, Box, Dropbox or
               | Google Drive (who all implement CSAM scanning)
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | The practical difference is that I pay for the
               | electricity they use, now. The wear-and-tear of _their_
               | service is now imparted onto my phone.
               | 
               | If Apple wants to run that code, they're welcome to do it
               | on their own servers; they pay for the hardware, they
               | decide what software it runs. I shouldn't have to waste
               | _my_ storage space on their NeuralHash model though. I
               | shouldn 't waste _my_ CPU cycles on _their_ regulatory
               | compliance. Arguing anything else is paramount to saying
               | that Apple owned your phone from the start, and if _that
               | 's_ the case, then antitrust legislation can't come soon
               | enough.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | seems like a dumb thing to argue about. everything you're
               | saying is moot as you can just plug in your phone to your
               | computer and upload photos without scanning, or use a
               | self-hosted file upload service, etc.
               | 
               | your compute and phone resources are already used for
               | analytics and other things that you didn't explicitly
               | tell the phone to do.
               | 
               | you also greatly overestimate how much CPU it takes to
               | compare a hash, lol
               | 
               | fact of the matter is, you're only scanned when you're
               | using apple services.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | > your compute and phone resources are already used for
               | analytics and other things that you didn't explicitly
               | tell the phone to do.
               | 
               | I didn't know LineageOS sent analytics, it never showed
               | up on Netguard. Curious!
               | 
               | If you think this is a dumb thing to argue about, then by
               | all means; don't argue about it! If you're satisfied with
               | your iPhone and convinced that Apple can do no wrong,
               | then certainly don't let me get in your way. We're
               | talking about the largest company in the world, though,
               | and if you're unwilling to offer them a _little_
               | criticism for objectively degrading the iPhone
               | experience, then I don 't see the point in discussing
               | this.
               | 
               | > you also greatly overestimate how much CPU it takes to
               | compare a hash, lol
               | 
               | Do I? If it's not such a big hassle, then Apple can just
               | run it on their own servers. They own your iCloud
               | decryption keys anyways, it shouldn't be too big of a
               | deal.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | We're talking about Apple devices here so LineageOS is
               | irrelevant. Please keep up.
               | 
               | > Do I? If it's not such a big hassle, then Apple can
               | just run it on their own servers. They own your iCloud
               | decryption keys anyways, it shouldn't be too big of a
               | deal.
               | 
               | Privacy is better preserved doing it on device compared
               | to on their servers.
               | 
               | anyway, nothing more to discuss here.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | You might think that it's silly to complain about having
               | to directly pay for an adversarial program to run, but
               | try to imagine how it could bother other people.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | The guy who had his Google account deleted for sending
               | pictures of his children to his doctor is definitely
               | upset about cloud providers scanning his content!
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | I'm sure he is, but rules are rules. Google _cannot
               | store_ that content for _any purpose_ whatsoever: there
               | are very specific regulatory standards in place for
               | storing medical data, and Google Drive /iCloud doesn't
               | comply with those standards. They (both!) go as far as to
               | tell you that in the EULA, so the context of the
               | situation doesn't even matter in the first place.
               | 
               | The more bothersome thing (to me) is client-side
               | scanning. Apple is setting a precedent that allows any
               | first-party manufacturer to work against the user's
               | interests as long as there's a large enough common enemy.
               | It should go without saying, but _that 's a horrible
               | idea!_
               | 
               | If Google were doing the same thing on their Pixel
               | phones, I'd be slamming them equally as hard. It's simply
               | depressing to watch a company claim they know best, while
               | proceeding to use your phone to run _their_ regulatory
               | compliance code.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Taking a picture of something on your own phone is not
               | "medical data" and they weren't doing ToS compliance,
               | they were scanning for novel CSAM in a way they're not
               | required to, reported it to the police, and now are
               | refusing to undelete his account because of their never
               | give anyone customer service policy.
               | 
               | (Even if you took a picture to send to your doctor
               | through an encrypted app, it just has to end up in the
               | photo library to be cloud synced, unless you remember to
               | hand delete it.)
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | > Chinese brands (Huawei, Xiaomi, Motorola, etc.) don't
           | inspire confidence for me either.
           | 
           | Have you considered OnePlus? Their cameras aren't the best,
           | but they're usually as good as the other top brands in
           | everything else.
        
             | Hamuko wrote:
             | I lost my confidence in OnePlus when one of their OTA
             | updates soft-bricked my OnePlus 5 on Christmas Eve. Lost
             | all of the data that wasn't backed up, since I had to
             | perform a complete wipe and the phone was encrypted.
             | 
             | Also, OnePlus doesn't have a good track record when it
             | comes to this particular issue:
             | https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40656034
        
             | er888kh wrote:
             | I haven't owned one of their devices, but it seems like
             | Linus[1] is not satisfied with their current situation.
             | 
             | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNoelvk6S4
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | Yikes! I have a OnePlus 5T that I'm very happy with.
               | 
               | Amusingly I was thinking of getting a Pixel 6 until I saw
               | this thread, and thought "Oh well, back to OnePlus." Now
               | I don't know what to get.
        
               | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
               | Is Pixel hardware the problem?
               | 
               | Or untested buggy Google shovel-ware?
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | I would argue the value add of the Pixel 6 _is_ the
               | proprietary Google SW. I was considering the Pixel 6 only
               | for its photo abilities, and a lot of those are via
               | Google SW - not fantastic lenses /processors. If I
               | replace it with a custom ROM, the OnePlus is probably a
               | better device (faster processor, etc).
               | 
               | If the Google SW is so buggy, there's no compelling
               | reason to buy one just because of the HW.
        
           | staindk wrote:
           | If I had the money I'd probably get one of the more expensive
           | Sony phones. They seem great, at least in theory.
        
           | lawn wrote:
           | The Fairphone 4 is great IMO.
           | 
           | Repairability is super high, it's easily flashed to eg
           | LineagOS and has been promised software updates for many
           | years if you want to stay with Android.
        
           | mFixman wrote:
           | My Galaxy S21 is the best phone I've ever had. I didn't
           | install any new firmware or anything that requires rooting
           | and I never had a problem not accepting Samsung's terms.
           | 
           | Everything that matters works: the phone is fast, never
           | crashes, and you can install browsers with AdBlock.
        
           | saiya-jin wrote:
           | I can say, after 6+ months with samsung s22 ultra i am very
           | happy with it. Camera delivers more than any apple device can
           | right now (since 10x zoom is surprisingly useful for me in
           | normal light), battery is fine, screen is amazing and I think
           | still best on the market today.
           | 
           | People bash androids for privacy like all are from china, but
           | Korea (and Japan and US) makes some fine devices too and as
           | european I prefer them to US (and obviously China).
           | 
           | I even have european exynos crap version, which is slower but
           | some claim exynos models on previous models were much more
           | stable/reliable after few months compared to snapdragons.
           | Can't say, what I want works, there is absolute 0
           | broken/annoying things for me, no bloatware, no ads etc.
           | 
           | That being said, when wife was looking for smaller phone few
           | weeks back, I went through reviews and opinions and suggested
           | iphone 13 mini. She always loved iphone photos of other folks
           | and I think she will enjoy phone UI smoothness and long term
           | reliability/security. It will be an interesting experiment.
        
           | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
           | > So where do we go from here?
           | 
           | GrapheneOS.org
        
             | Tijdreiziger wrote:
             | Which is supported only on Google Pixels. So if I go that
             | route, how can I be sure it won't suffer from the same bugs
             | re: emergency calls?
        
           | er888kh wrote:
           | Just look for a phone on which you can easily install a
           | stable custom ROM. I previously had a Samsung device and
           | installed Lineage OS and was happy-ish. It was clean and free
           | of bloatware, fast, and had a good battery life. The downside
           | was that it wasn't stable (probably never got an uptime above
           | 48h) and the major updates were too buggy and too late.
           | 
           | I recently bought a Xiaomi device. The moment you turn it on
           | you notice it's filled with spyware and bloatware. I thought
           | I couldn't be more surprised after seeing the clock app ask
           | for permission for "personalized experience", but they got
           | me, in the calculator app. Other than that, the hardware is
           | great, the themes look good, and overall it's a good
           | experience. It's a pity I'd have to switch to a custom ROM
           | because of this "personalized experience" MIUI nonsense.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | The problem is that anyone who wants to use Google Pay or
             | banking apps, or anything that requires the phone to pass
             | SafetyNet, will not be able to use an alternative ROM.
             | Right now that's the only thing stopping me from getting a
             | phone with a shitty "skinned" version of Android, as I
             | can't replace the factory OS without losing a ton of
             | functionality I rely on.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | Google Pay doesn't respect your privacy anyway, as the
               | terms state that Google can use your transaction data to
               | profile you.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | The answer to "I can't do X because I use Y and Z" is not
               | "You're wrong to want to use Y and Z". Understand that
               | not everyone prioritizes the same things you do.
               | 
               | Regardless, Google already has enough information on me
               | to profile me quite well; avoiding Google Pay will not
               | meaningfully change that, and I get enough value out of
               | it that the trade off is worth it to me, at least for
               | now.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | Of course everyone is free to have their own priorities
               | when it comes to privacy.
               | 
               | However, for people who want to use Google Pay despite
               | the privacy implications, I'm not sure running a privacy-
               | preserving Android distribution is even meaningful. At
               | that point, why not just run stock Google Android?
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | You realize that _all_ electronic payments are used to
               | profile you.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | Even if that's true, why would you add another party
               | (i.e. Google) to that chain?
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | While pervasive tracking is insidious, Google is the
               | least problematic actor since they don't sell their data.
        
               | nh2 wrote:
               | I think that's outdated information in many regards. Most
               | apps seem to have turned off the SafetyNet requirement; I
               | suspect that may be due to a larger amount of Chinese
               | Android phones that don't have it.
               | 
               | I'm using a Play-Store-less microG LineageOS on a Google
               | Pixel 1, and all my banking apps work (Revolut UK, German
               | Post Bank authenticator), as well as a Swiss online
               | health care app.
               | 
               | I haven't found an application yet that I couldn't use on
               | LineageOS due to lack of SafetyNet.
        
           | pid-1 wrote:
           | If you want a premium phone, Apple is pretty much
           | unchallenged.
           | 
           | I'm not a fan of expensive phones though - I'm scared I will
           | break it and lose $700+ in the blink of an eye. Been using
           | cheap Motorolas for the past 10 years, no complains.
        
             | qball wrote:
             | >I'm not a fan of expensive phones though - I'm scared I
             | will break it and lose $700+ in the blink of an eye.
             | 
             | Phones over 200 bucks are a serious liability, I agree.
             | 
             | Fortunately, that also happens to be the price of the
             | fourth-fastest phone on the market, that being the iPhone
             | SE (Gen 2).
             | 
             | The fastest phone on the market (that being the Gen 3) is
             | twice that price, but I have an easier time accepting a
             | premium for that that's closer to 100 than the 1000 you'd
             | have to pay to get the most capable Android phones... and
             | they're still 4 years behind the iPhone technology-wise.
        
             | devoutsalsa wrote:
             | For the iPhone, you can always buy two generations back to
             | save a few bucks. I bought an iPhone 11 a couple months ago
             | for $499 plus tax and it's a perfectly good phone.
        
               | allset_ wrote:
               | When you do that you're also buying into a phone that
               | will stop receiving security updates sooner since iPhones
               | receive updates for ~5 years after they're released.
        
               | stu2b50 wrote:
               | I wouldn't really worry about that. Apple has been very
               | good at giving security patches to old devices. Just a
               | few days ago they pushed a security patch for iPhones as
               | old as the 5S
               | 
               | https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/23/apple-releases-
               | ios-12-5-5-for...
        
               | Throwawayaerlei wrote:
               | If you're really on a budget you can probably go back
               | even more generations and get both an acceptable phone
               | and one that'll get updates for some time. Which are
               | probably more important for iOS because it's such a
               | single big target compared to the fragmented Android
               | world. I'm currently using an iPhone 6s I got in February
               | 2020 for $200 from my Consumer Cellular MVNO which
               | unlocks it after 6 months.
               | 
               | One thing you'll lose with the older phones sooner than
               | iOS updates is AppleCare support, but if you get a good
               | bargain to begin with....
        
           | gfd wrote:
           | I didn't consider Motorola a Chinese brand but apparently
           | they were sold by Google to Lenovo in 2014
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Mobility
        
           | Spooky23 wrote:
           | Just get an iPhone. They are for better or worse the
           | BlackBerry of the 2020s.
           | 
           | Samsung is the only rival in terms of hardware. Google lacks
           | the attention span to execute. Everything else is even less
           | baked.
           | 
           | I'd experiment with nerdy Android distros with a tablet. I
           | used to have a Linux smartphone (whose name escapes me, which
           | is driving me nuts) back in like 2006/7, it was fun but not a
           | "daily driver".
        
             | michaelmrose wrote:
             | Motorola makes good phones. I'm not sure why everyone is
             | fixated on Samsung. Seems to me the Motorola G line is
             | fantastic and even relatively cheap with the Moto G 5G
             | being not but $300
        
               | xioxox wrote:
               | Motorola produce virtually no software updates. You'll
               | typically only get security updates for two years after
               | the phone is started to be sold.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | If its unlocked you can install what you like later on.
               | At $165-$300 getting it fully unlocked is trivial.
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | Probably an Openmoko Neo 1973?
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | Because I want to use a browser with Adblock and iOS won't
             | let me, so it's ruled out from the start.
             | 
             | Why would I settle for an expensive device that makes
             | browsing the internet painful? Why would I limit myself to
             | only the software apple will approve?
             | 
             | It isn't even in the running and as long as their software
             | policies remain as is, won't be in the running.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | I was an inch away from buying an iPhone, even though I
               | disapprove of their curation model, because Android is
               | such a garbage fire. (Not one modern Android phone has
               | in-kernel-tree drivers? Not one?)
               | 
               | And the forced curation is dumb but if they're approving
               | everything I'd want to use anyway, Android can eat it
               | until they sort out their problems. What do I even need?
               | Signal and Firefox with uBlock, that's really it.
               | 
               | On iOS, Signal can't do SMS and there's no uBlock. Of
               | course.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | _> Not one modern Android phone has in-kernel-tree
               | drivers? Not one_
               | 
               | That's up to Qualcomm, not Android. And Qualcomm needs to
               | sell new chips every year, therefore planned obsolescence
               | works in their favor.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Seeing that rule based content blocking has been built
               | into iOS for 6 years and web extension support has been
               | built in for two...
        
               | zibby8 wrote:
               | iOS supports ad-blockers in Safari.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | There are adblocker extensions (aka "content blockers")
               | on iOS that work very well. This has been the case since
               | iOS 9 IIRC, so seven years ago.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | What? iOS only supports content blockers as safari
               | extensions since iOS 15, which is the latest iOS...
               | 
               | Please do source your claim that this has been possible
               | for 7yrs, as that's not my experience.
               | 
               | (https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/)
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | See e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9695552 and
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10230704.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | It only supports 'Chrome Manifest v3'-style 'simple'
               | blocking lists, not 'true' adblockers. These mostly work
               | fine but are clearly less powerful.
               | 
               | They also don't work with non-Safari browsers (e.g.
               | Firefox).
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | This hasn't been true for two years Safari on iOS has
               | supported web extensions for that long.
        
               | mplewis wrote:
               | iOS supports adblockers since iOS 9 was released in 2015.
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | it does not support real adblockers like ublock origin,
               | it supports 'blocking lists' which are garbage.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | iOS supports web extensions and has since iOS 12/13
        
           | butterNaN wrote:
           | Consider installing /e/ os on your galaxy.
           | https://e.foundation/e-os/
        
           | whimsicalism wrote:
           | If you want good stock Android phones, I believe Pixel &
           | Chinese brands are only game in town.
        
             | Tijdreiziger wrote:
             | I don't really care about 'stock', tbh. It just needs to
             | run the apps I want to run, and it's nice if it can also
             | take decent photos. I would also strongly prefer for it to
             | preserve my privacy, but I realize that's kind of a wash
             | between Google and Apple.
        
         | mikesabat wrote:
         | I got a Pixel 6a a few days back and just pocket dialed someone
         | for the first time in 5 years.
         | 
         | My last phone was the 4a and the 6a seems worse in many ways. I
         | haven't traded the 4a in yet because I might just move back.
         | 
         | Are there any good alternative phones on Project Fi?
        
         | morpheuskafka wrote:
         | I was checking out the Android competition ahead of the iPhone
         | 14 announcement and I was shocked that all of the flagships
         | seem to have major usability complaints. I always thought that
         | the UX might be a little worse, but Android would be ahead on
         | hardware (battery, camera, etc). I thought the whole carriers
         | doing updates and all that would have been fixed by now, but it
         | seems like only Pixel has. What is keeping people still on
         | Android if the flagships have so many issues?
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | The ability to use firefox with ublock origin. Browsing the
           | internet on Apple devices is cancer.
        
           | MontyCarloHall wrote:
           | >What is keeping people still on Android if the flagships
           | have so many issues?
           | 
           | Not much, apparently. In the US at least, iPhone usage has
           | been steadily eroding Android usage; indeed, as of this
           | summer, the US iPhone userbase became larger than the Android
           | userbase [0].
           | 
           | [0] https://archive.ph/r6PbO
        
           | marcolussetti wrote:
           | I have both an Android (personal primary device) and an
           | iPhone (work phone).
           | 
           | For me by far the number one reason I use my Android device
           | is the Internet browsing differences. Firefox Nightly with
           | all the add-ons I use (first of all uBlock Origin, but so
           | many more) and the sync to desktop Firefox is night and day
           | compared to Safari (with an adblocker).
        
           | tbihl wrote:
           | >What is keeping people still on Android if the flagships
           | have so many issues?
           | 
           | Many things boil down to research I'd have to do to convince
           | myself of feature parity for things important to me. Micro SD
           | cards are mostly gone from Android and also not so important
           | to me as they once we're, so that reason is effectively gone.
           | In no particular order:
           | 
           | 1. You're stuck with iMessager, which at least means I can't
           | keep Signal as my default messaging app, and probably means
           | other downsides.
           | 
           | 2. Old ipods and my iPad don't seem to even allow file
           | transfer with my computer via USB. I don't know if you can
           | transfer files directly to/from external hard drives.
           | 
           | 3. Lightning cables (maybe iPhones don't have these anymore?)
           | 
           | 4. I suspect that there are missing features if you don't
           | have a MacBook, but I haven't looked into it.
           | 
           | 5. I have apps I know and like. For starters, I would have to
           | find a podcast app that I liked. AFAIK you still can't use FF
           | with ublock origin on iPhones, which means I would have to
           | migrate all my browser activity to something else.
           | 
           | 6. Keeping my Android phone at least lets me pretend that
           | I'll migrate over to GrapheneOS like I should.
           | 
           | 7. I like having access to FDroid. AFAIK, iPhones have no
           | analogue.
           | 
           | 8. It seems like the iPhone mini is missing a fingerprint
           | reader, which means only the SE is appealing.
           | 
           | Anyway, I thought pretty hard about it with my last phone
           | because 2 of 4 Apple phones are the best 2 smaller phones,
           | but it would be a lot of inconvenience just to have a smaller
           | phone.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | 1. I can actually get files on my phone (usb without itunes,
           | apps can bring their own sync, dropbox works as well as
           | drive, etc)
           | 
           | 2. I can sideload whatever I want. Emulators, disallowed
           | apps, etc.
           | 
           | 3. Real terminal with ssh, ability to install packages, etc
           | 
           | 4. Not locked in to iMessage, iTunes, Apple Music, Safari
           | 
           | 5. Some apps that use plugins can only run on Android. Those
           | are right out on iOS.
        
           | dzikimarian wrote:
           | Personally I find Apple UX inferior in many areas - eg.
           | notification management sucks a lot. Customization is poor -
           | no sideloading, no alternative launchers, even icons cannot
           | be moved freely. Device looks bad due to huge noth. That's
           | just a few from the top of my head.
           | 
           | Also giving more control over the market to company, that is
           | almost definition of walled garden is bad for everyone.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | These are issues you'd not even expect from a Pine or Librem
         | Phone ...
        
         | dmitrygr wrote:
         | > It feels like this was released without anyone living with
         | the phone for even a couple weeks and trying normal use
         | cases...
         | 
         | Google used to have a very robust dogfooding in program
         | internally. Back in 2012 - 2015. Everybody inside the android
         | org was using the latest devices before release. This is not
         | nearly the case anymore.
        
           | hocuspocus wrote:
           | The Nexus at that time were full of bugs too.
        
       | MKGoogle wrote:
        
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