[HN Gopher] Are we going back to the cable days?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Are we going back to the cable days?
        
       Author : obert
       Score  : 114 points
       Date   : 2022-08-22 09:44 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thehustle.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thehustle.co)
        
       | moolcool wrote:
       | The flexibility is a nice option in contrast, at least. Like you
       | can easily subscribe to Apple TV+, watch Severance in a month,
       | cancel, and then use HBO to watch The Rehearsal the next month.
        
         | cassianoleal wrote:
         | I wish I had the flexibility to ditch Prime Video whilst
         | keeping the rest of Prime at a discount.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Amazon knows exactly what they're doing with this. Prime
           | Video is a crap service on its own, but it isn't bad for
           | "free" and means when you do buy/rent a movie you do it
           | there.
        
             | cassianoleal wrote:
             | It's not free though, the subscription went up by about
             | 100% when they launched Prime Video.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Yep, but I suspect that for most people the "free prime
               | shipping" is valued at 110% of the price, and the
               | video/music at basically nothing.
               | 
               | Amazon apparently thinks Prime Video is worth $9/mo as
               | you can subscribe to that alone (not that anyone does).
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | I would take the tenner discount if I had the option to
               | be honest, even though it's still worse value than pre-
               | Video Prime.
        
           | matt_s wrote:
           | I ditched Prime altogether and don't miss it. Deliveries from
           | amazon are still free over some threshold and they sometimes
           | arrive early.
           | 
           | I liked a couple of shows a few years ago but like most
           | streaming platforms they don't invest in them or the good
           | actors move on to other projects. There is one coming up that
           | I might like so I might do the signup for a month near xmas
           | shopping season and binge the show, get faster shipping on
           | gifts, then bail.
        
       | yrgulation wrote:
       | Well the internet is the new tv - full of ads, mediocrity and
       | misinformation. No surprise some form of paid "channels" evolved.
        
       | spydum wrote:
       | $79 would not have gotten you any of those premium content
       | providers. That collection of content would have easily hit
       | 120+/month, plus a bunch of bs service charges for devices. They
       | also did not give you the ability to drop the content you didn't
       | want. So much of it came as packages and bundles.
        
         | ourmandave wrote:
         | And the best times were the free weekends when they'd show
         | great movies to lure new subscribers.
         | 
         | Instead of the normal couple new movies you'd watched 4 times
         | by the end of the month.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Yeah, those were the days.
        
         | johnny_canuck wrote:
         | Where I am in Canada, if you wanted all that content for that
         | price you'd also be stuck with a lot of content you did not
         | want.
         | 
         | If you wanted a la carte offerings then you'd pay a premium for
         | going outside the packages they offered.
         | 
         | While I'm not in love with the current situation, it's much
         | better than where we were in the 2000s. At least I can say I
         | don't want X and cancel it.
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | I pay $85/month for my broadband cable alone, via the Comcast
       | Xfinity monopoly I don't really have any other option. but I
       | guess I'd need to pay that even if I watched no streaming TV.
        
       | linsomniac wrote:
       | I have an incentive to minimize the number of streaming services
       | I have, because the more I have the more time I spend flipping
       | between them looking for who has what I want to watch. Example:
       | The family sat down to watch a specific movie this weekend, and
       | after trying 4 services I decided to buy it on one of them,
       | clicked purchase exactly when my wife announced she had found it
       | on 5th service I didn't know we had.
        
         | zdragnar wrote:
         | canistream.it used to be my go-to, but they're currently
         | "rebuilding". For now, you can search movies on
         | https://reelgood.com/ (and probably a half dozen other sites)
         | and it'll list the services the movie is available on.
         | 
         | Of course, if you didn't even know you had a particular
         | service, it's not going to be terribly helpful...
        
       | jeffwask wrote:
       | Not really.
       | 
       | 1) I get multiple services bundled with other things I already
       | pay for 2) I only need to subscribe to 1 or 2 a month. You can
       | drop one to go to another unless you live by the FOMO 3) Many of
       | these services will die over the next few years. It's
       | unsustainable.
        
       | gniv wrote:
       | > Streaming services...
       | 
       | > ... are making price increases a regular occurrence
       | 
       | This was (is? idk) the case with cable. I used to have Xfinity
       | and they would increase the price every year, by non-trivial
       | amounts. My company was paying for internet, so I didn't feel
       | that the cable price was too steep, but in retrospect I should
       | have cancelled it earlier.
        
       | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
       | My household has Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, ESPN+, and
       | something else I can't remember. Yet I still find myself sailing
       | the black seas for material that's been removed from or can't be
       | found on those platforms. Sometimes I'll just buy the blu-ray on
       | eBay then rip the disc onto my hard drive. My torrent downloads
       | went from like 5 a year between 2014-2018 back up into the
       | hundreds and continues to climb each year.
        
       | kat_rebelo wrote:
       | i primarily torrented initially because i was broke. i was a
       | super early netflix adopter (back in the DVD by mail days). for
       | awhile netflix, hbo, and amazon prime were all i needed to watch
       | 80% of the stuff i wanted to, and it felt fair to pay what i did.
       | 
       | with more content being paywalled behind the proliferation of
       | superfluous streaming services, consistent rate hikes, and a huge
       | drop in quality of content i've eliminated everything except
       | prime (which i keep mainly for the two day shipping). i don't
       | want to declare myself as a bellwether, but i got into netflix
       | early and i got out early as well (cancelled my subscription Dec
       | of 2021).
       | 
       | at the end of the day, torrenting is always the best value
       | proposition. you can possess the files you download, they are not
       | subject to being randomly taken down, and there are plenty of
       | options for streaming them to multiple devices in your home. i
       | download some really weird obscure stuff and i have never had an
       | issue not being able to find subtitles. sometimes quality can
       | vary but for most things you can get a decent 720 or 1080 rip.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | I value my time way more than dealing with having a Plex Server
         | set up. I had one from 2012-2020 and before that a Mac Mini
         | running Front Row from 2006-2012. I haven't had it plugged up
         | in 2 years.
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | FYI, you can still get 2-day free shipping from Amazon by
         | spending >$35. In my experience, there are very few situations
         | where I really need an item in 2 days but can't bundle in other
         | necessities like toothpaste or toilet paper to pad the cost to
         | get free shipping.
        
         | slg wrote:
         | >at the end of the day, torrenting is always the best value
         | proposition.
         | 
         | Weird that the one that is free and doesn't pay anyone who had
         | a hand in creating the content is the one with the most value.
         | It is almost like creating content has a cost that needs to be
         | passed on to the consumer.
        
           | kat_rebelo wrote:
           | for content you have purchsed (ie: prime) there is nothing
           | stopping them from giving you a file in case they delist the
           | content (Bandcamp is a good example of a service that offers
           | exactly this).
           | 
           | this may be more of a political stance, but most of this
           | content is produced by huge media corporations with deep
           | pockets and histories of nefarious business practices. do i
           | really care if disney gets paid for their content? no not
           | really. if they amortize this loss by paying their employees
           | less than that says more about them than it does about anyone
           | pirating from them.
        
             | slg wrote:
             | >for content you have purchsed (ie: prime) there is nothing
             | stopping them from giving you a file in case they delist
             | the content (Bandcamp is a good example of a service that
             | offers exactly this).
             | 
             | Sometimes you aren't purchasing the content and are instead
             | getting a license because Amazon doesn't have the
             | contractual right to sell you the content because they are
             | also just licensing it rather than owning it themselves.
             | 
             | >this may be more of a political stance, but most of this
             | content is produced by huge media corporations with deep
             | pockets and histories of nefarious business practices. do i
             | really care if disney gets paid for their content? no not
             | really. if they amortize this loss by paying their
             | employees less than that says more about them than it does
             | about anyone pirating from them.
             | 
             | Disney isn't the content creator I am talking about. I am
             | instead referring to the actual individuals that were
             | hands-on with the creation of the content. One of the
             | primary reasons that HBO Max is removing content is they
             | don't want to pay residuals to the individual artists
             | involved in creating the removed shows. Keeping those shows
             | on the platform means HBO Max would have to literally send
             | out checks to the writers, actors, etc. who have negotiated
             | for those ongoing payments. They would never have gotten
             | those checks at all if you never pay for that content.
        
       | syrrim wrote:
       | The price advantage was always going to be temporary. People have
       | clearly demonstrated that they are _willing_ to pay however much
       | for access to content. Furthermore, the content producers have
       | gotten used to a certain amount of funding, and are unlikely to
       | give it up willingly. The biggest difference is that today people
       | can pirate content that they can 't otherwise find conveniently.
       | But people are likely willing to pay even a very high fee to
       | stream content conveniently, and if streaming services play there
       | cards right, I suspect they will manage to raise fees
       | substantially.
        
       | prmoustache wrote:
       | Who is subscribing to all of them really? It is actually
       | mentionned in the article that typical streaming spending is
       | around 20-30$ per house.
       | 
       | Also, despite not being allowed by terms of service most accounts
       | are widely shared accross families and friends which mean most of
       | us pay for only one service.
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | Most people subscribe to Netflix, Prime, and Disney+ and get
         | the free hulu package while also still using cable.
        
         | cableshaft wrote:
         | Not me. The only steady one has been Netflix (and Amazon Prime
         | I guess, but that's more for package delivery, I've only
         | watched a small handful of shows on there), and I might even
         | take a break from that once I get through Better Call Saul. I
         | sometimes get a month of HBO Max or Hulu/Disney+, but not that
         | often.
         | 
         | Still a lot cheaper than cable.
        
         | falcolas wrote:
         | > Who is subscribing to all of them really?
         | 
         | My wife. Because the shows she enjoys are spread unevenly
         | across the various streaming platforms.
         | 
         | It feels very much like the bad old days with cable.
        
           | colinmhayes wrote:
           | Watch the shows on one platform for a couple months. When
           | you've seen them switch to a different platform. Rinse and
           | repeat. Most streamers are still dumping seasons all at once
           | so unless you're watching reality tv this strategy works
           | great.
        
             | falcolas wrote:
             | Streaming services are wising up to this, and are starting
             | to no longer dump entire seasons. They're also testing out
             | expiring episodes before an entire season is finished.
        
               | KerrAvon wrote:
               | Expiring episodes is a good way to make users hate you.
               | It will annoy people who want to rewatch the series.
        
         | 14 wrote:
         | This factor pisses me off. I pay for Netflix so my kids can
         | watch shows. They go over to their moms house and log in on a
         | computer so they can continue to watch their shows but now I
         | guess Netflix assumes I shared my password? They have
         | effectively pushed me to the point that just tonight I was
         | looking at going back to piracy. The effort to pirate is low
         | bar these days and I can use it on any device, and house, have
         | access to all shows and movies across all services, don't have
         | titles go missing, and can watch it all in 4K. I was happy to
         | pay Netflix a fair fee while it was quick and convenient but
         | now the price has crept higher then I like and is not
         | convenient.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Netflix said they were going to crackdown on password
           | sharing. But it hadn't happen yet. L
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | They cannot because they are struggling to maintain growth.
             | Imagine they start banning all shared accounts, a wild
             | guess is that 50% of them are at the very least. That would
             | make them lose so many customers at the same time they
             | wouldn't be able to recover from it. This + all the false
             | positive from household members travelling. People would be
             | so pissed of they would turn to other services that do not
             | crack down on shared accounts before going back to netflix.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | They were going to not allow you to use Netflix accounts
               | on set top boxes when you are away from home. But they
               | were going to allow you to use mobile.
               | 
               | But some Hiltons have Smart TVs with Netflix built in
               | that let you enter your own Netflix credentials and
               | automatically sign you out when you check out.
               | 
               | Hulu Live TV (not the VOD only service) was very strict
               | about not allowing you to use it on other TVs and forcing
               | you to change your "home" location and only allowing 5
               | changes a year.
               | 
               | You couldn't use it on mobile for more than 30 days
               | without going back to your "home".
               | 
               | I have a vacation property. There solution was to pay for
               | two separate accounts.
        
         | tiborsaas wrote:
         | I wouldn't, but when providers are randomly removing shows and
         | movies it's really annoying. For example Netflix just removed
         | Rick and Morty in 16 countries and a few more pending. Should I
         | just subscribe to another provider because of that, jump
         | between apps or rely on a good old and convenient technology
         | which has everything (torrent)?
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | You can do n months on one service, m other months on
           | another. Especially when talking about series with seasons. I
           | don't usually mix series and follow one at a time It can take
           | me a 2 weeks to a month watching a season, why would I be
           | paying for another service at the same time?
        
             | tiborsaas wrote:
             | Rick and Morty is good for a quick relax for 20 min after
             | dinner, another might be good for thrills for longer time,
             | how about a documentary the next day? It's easy to pick
             | shows that match my interests and fits my taste, but they
             | are scattered across platforms if they are available at
             | all.
             | 
             | Unsubbing for shows feels wrong. What if I just want to
             | watch a pilot? I'm not that calculated to manage my
             | subscriptions based on a schedule.
             | 
             | What if friends come over? Sorry, no Netflix since
             | yesterday :)
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | That is mild inconvenience.
               | 
               | I would tend to say that if you watch shows on a daily
               | basis you are probably in an addiction pattern.
               | 
               | You can always use your friend's netflix account if they
               | have it. By showing netflix content to people outside of
               | your household you are already breaching terms of use
               | anyway.
        
               | tiborsaas wrote:
               | I'm easily annoyed with mild inconveniences, people on HN
               | are already furious for closing an email newsletter
               | modal. I feel managing subscriptions, entering CC details
               | is a lot of hassle.
               | 
               | LOL, watching a 50min show daily is addiction? I highly
               | doubt any therapist would back you with this.
               | 
               | Breaching terms for watching a random movie with a group
               | of friends? Probably there's a bullshit clause for that,
               | but here comes LOL#2. Crap like that was always on rented
               | content since the VHS age, nobody cares and nobody
               | enforces it :)
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | >. Crap like that was always on rented content since the
               | VHS age, nobody cares and nobody enforces it :)
               | 
               | Which is exactly why I say that you can uae your friend's
               | account if they visit you and you agree on watching
               | something you do not currently have access to.
        
               | tiborsaas wrote:
               | Right, but kinda awkward in romantic settings :)
        
             | slothtrop wrote:
             | Add to this, you can also rent/buy through some services
             | (usually big tech). It might seem steep, but if you're
             | paying $10/mo for streaming with barely anything you want
             | to watch, one-time payment of $5-8 for a film maybe once a
             | month isn't bad. TV seasons are overpriced but I think of
             | it the same way, at one episode per week. That used to be
             | the norm before streaming allowed "binging". Occasionally
             | some content is only available through streaming in which
             | case I burn through what I want and cancel.
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | just checked my situation and i'm subscribed to: netflix 4k,
         | amazon prime, disney+, paramount+, sky/nowtv, apple tv plus,
         | youtube premium and spotify. and this is just entertainment.
        
       | Night_Thastus wrote:
       | At one point I was subscribed to most of those listed. I like a
       | lot of niche/older content and it's just really split up now. I
       | was getting sick of it. Every single one of the shows I wanted
       | was on a _different_ service, almost no overlap.
       | 
       | I wasn't using any _one_ service enough to justify their monthly
       | costs. The alternative would be to cancel and re-subscribe when
       | you want to, but that gets exhausting very quickly for 6+
       | services.
       | 
       | I decided to cancel all of those subscriptions and go elsewhere.
       | It's just not worth it at this point for me.
        
       | basseq wrote:
       | I'm not seeing discussion of key comparison to steaming vs.
       | cable: the ability to buy and access a variety of content from
       | one source.
       | 
       | "Having to buy more than you need", "annoying contracts", "ads",
       | "bundling"... all true... for both streaming and cable in
       | different ways.
       | 
       | What's most annoying with the streaming ecosystem _as it exists
       | right now_ , is having to deal individually with each provider.
       | That means multiple transactions, different apps, silo'd
       | searching, etc.
       | 
       | I like the ability to turn different services on and off at
       | will... I want the ability to manage and access those services in
       | one place. Having a single relationship with a cable-esque
       | provider to abstract away the complexities of different streaming
       | services would be awesome.
       | 
       | At least with cable, I didn't have to buy Verizon _and_ Comcast
       | _and_ Cox to watch ABC, ESPN, and HBO.
        
         | naravara wrote:
         | Apple TV+ has a unified search (although Netflix doesn't
         | participate), but something about the handoffs between APIs is
         | painfully sloooow and the UX can get a little confusing if
         | you're managing multiple user profiles (both at the Apple TV
         | level and in each individual service) as well as getting very
         | confused if you're able to access the same content through
         | multiple services (e.g. HBO shows via Hulu or HBO Now).
         | 
         | It needs improvement fast. Ideally we'd decouple the
         | technology/UX side of it from the content library management
         | side of it but that'll never happen.
        
         | Mindwipe wrote:
         | > At least with cable, I didn't have to buy Verizon and Comcast
         | and Cox to watch ABC, ESPN, and HBO.
         | 
         | Perhaps not, but you were also driving to Blockbuster to get
         | additional titles every two weeks in person.
        
           | basseq wrote:
           | Well now you're talking about technical delivery! Not
           | withstanding the advancement on 4K content, VCRs, RCA
           | antennas, remote controls, etc.
           | 
           | Heck, for a while I could rent new releases from my Verizon
           | subscription, too! (Or I'd have the o.g. delivery-service
           | Netflix to bring them to my door.)
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | Cable would be awesome if it let you purchase channels
         | individually.
         | 
         | I let cable TV go after my bill (including Internet) crawled up
         | to $250 a month and then I realized the only thing I was
         | watching was occasionally Food Network and most of the time
         | everything else had either reality TV garbage I had no interest
         | in, re-runs of shows I've seen a zillion times, or
         | infomercials.
         | 
         | I like streaming. For example, I got bored with Starz so I
         | dropped it, but wasn't anywhere near as bad as the over $100
         | for cable TV part of my cable bill, nor as painful to cancel.
         | 
         | If I could simply pick and pay for the couple channels I wanted
         | and switch without hassle, yes, it would be awesome. Until then
         | I'm fine dealing with separate providers. I'm sure it will be
         | ruined soon though.
         | 
         | Here's the thing though - we have almost two generations who
         | did not grow up watching broadcast TV and aren't in that habit.
         | Cable TV was able to jack up its price and keep people paying
         | in my opinion because older people grew up with TV being a
         | default background activity and kind of just wanted it there.
         | 
         | That's not true anymore. Your default background activity is
         | your phone. Make these streaming services too complex and too
         | ad-ridden and I think people simply will give them up. They're
         | already really easy to give up. Especially with the current
         | trend of inflation and rising housing costs people aren't going
         | to let subscriptions stick around they aren't really using.
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | Streaming services are already as bad as the cable days, it seems
       | to me.
        
       | fritztastic wrote:
       | The biggest issues I have with cable are:
       | 
       | -There is no option to pick a few channels you want for cheaper
       | than the package of channels. I would love to pick a dozen
       | channels (which are otherwise are only available with the more
       | expensive bundles that come with hundred+ other channels I have
       | no interest in).
       | 
       | -Lack of availability of international channels. These often cost
       | 30+ for each small separate package offered in cable, while
       | better channel bundles are much more affordable through streaming
       | providers- not to mention individual programs available in
       | different platforms and news streams free online.
       | 
       | I don't spend a lot of free time watching things, and I have
       | specific things I enjoy (documentaries, foreign films/TV,
       | educational content) so paying more for cable doesn't make any
       | sense when I can get a better variety through streaming and/or
       | through resources freely available online or through the library.
       | Not to mention paying high prices and still having to contend
       | with advertisements taking up ~20% of the time and interrupting
       | what you're watching.
        
       | tjansen wrote:
       | Wasn't it obvious that if you want all shows/services, you will
       | still pay at least the same amount? The cost of producing content
       | is not going down just because there are more content providers.
       | As long as the same amount of content is being produced,
       | consumers still need to pay the same amount of money to see it
       | all. If consumers decide to pay less, there will be less content.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I don't think it is obvious. The default option is to hang on
         | to your accounts, right? So if you cycle subscriptions, you are
         | in a sense being subsidized by the people who just stick to a
         | service.
         | 
         | Or, if the expectation is that most people subscribe to
         | multiple streaming services, if you just subscribe to one (not
         | a big TV watcher for example) you would expect to pay less I
         | guess.
        
           | tjansen wrote:
           | The point of the article was that if you subscribe to all
           | services at the same time, you pay as much as for a cable
           | package.
           | 
           | If you do not subscribe to all services simultaneously, but
           | only a select few, it's still cheaper. At least as long as
           | most people don't do this.
        
           | tjansen wrote:
           | The point of the article was that if you subscribe to all
           | services at the same time, you pay as much as for a cable
           | package.
           | 
           | If you do not subscribe to all services simultaneously, but
           | only a select few, it's still cheaper. At least as long as
           | most people don't do this.
        
         | Mindwipe wrote:
         | > As long as the same amount of content is being produced,
         | consumers still need to pay the same amount of money to see it
         | all.
         | 
         | And indeed this isn't the case - a LOT more content is being
         | produced, and a lot more high budget drama is being produced.
         | The reason we have a glut of amazing content is because of the
         | competition between services.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | You don't have to subsidize digging down another cable for
         | streaming. One could expect streaming to be cheaper than cable
         | since you pay for internet access separately.
         | 
         | Also no satellites to rocket into space.
        
           | jaywalk wrote:
           | > You don't have to subsidize digging down another cable for
           | streaming.
           | 
           | You don't have to, but your streaming content is usually
           | being delivered over the same cable that provides TV anyway.
        
           | tjansen wrote:
           | ...but lots of content providers with their own
           | infrastructure, people sharing accounts and many people are
           | subscribing only to a few content providers.
        
       | bedast wrote:
       | First, those streaming services are ad-free. Cable is not.
       | Second, those streaming services cover what would be considered
       | "premium" content on cable, so that price comparison is grossly
       | misleading. They're comparing subscribing to all of those
       | services to what likely amounts to "basic" cable.
       | 
       | The great thing about those streaming services is you can pick
       | and choose. I used to subscribe to more services than I do now,
       | and there's so much content on each of them that I found myself
       | neglecting about half the services I subscribed to. So I dropped
       | it down to what I actually use. You can't do that with cable. I
       | spend far less with my ad-free streaming content than I would if
       | I purchased ad-filled cable content.
       | 
       | And when I say ad-filled, so much of it is every 5 minutes or so
       | you get about 5 or so minutes of ads. For how much you pay for
       | the service, that is completely unacceptable.
       | 
       | So, no, I will not be spending MORE on cable in order to be
       | served ads constantly. I'm doing fine on my small collection of
       | ad-free streaming services.
        
         | asdajksah2123 wrote:
         | Cable also paid for infrastructure costs. Streaming piggy backs
         | off internet infrastructure.
         | 
         | Further, every streaming business is deep in the red and are
         | being supported by other parts of the business. If they have to
         | carry their weight they will show you ads and increase prices.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Netflix is very much profitable and has been for years. Well
           | they did just stop borrowing money to produce and acquire
           | content in 2020.
           | 
           | Disney expects Disney+ to be profitable including "transfer
           | payments" by 2024.
           | 
           | Streaming doesn't piggyback off of getting access to the
           | internet cheaply no matter what cable providers say. They pay
           | for their bandwidth.
        
         | JustSomeNobody wrote:
         | > First, those streaming services are ad-free. Cable is not.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/26/arts/will-cable-tv-be-inv...
         | 
         | Those streaming services will eventually be premium + ads.
         | Quarterly earnings DEMAND it.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | This has already started. Hulu has a base plan with ads.
           | Netflix will follow suit. Before too long it probably won't
           | be possible to get an ad-free plan.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | What incentive will they have to make ad free not an
             | option? When they can just charge any amount extra for the
             | premium ad free version?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Hulu has always been ad supported. There free tier is
             | obvious, but even their paid tiers still have ads even if
             | it may be fewer interruptions than the free tier.
             | 
             | The way I read it, makes it sound like you're suggesting it
             | was ad free at some point then switched.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | There was at one point _3 shows_ that had ads at the
               | beginning and end because of previous contract
               | negotiations.
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | Cable + DVR is more or less ad-free.
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | Oh, but they're trying soooo hard to overcome that. For
           | example, on HGTV, they intersperse "Sneak Peak" ads for other
           | shows on the network. They always follow a commercial break,
           | but my TiVo's ad skip button usually skips over the 3rd party
           | ads and puts me at the beginning of the "Sneak Peak". It's so
           | fucking irritating. Now I have to manually fast-forward
           | through it.
           | 
           | Then during the shows, literally, for the entire program, not
           | just for a minute here or there, there's an animated logo for
           | some other show from the same network. And it gets larger
           | every year. First it was about 1/10th of the screen. Then it
           | was like 1/8th. Now it's up to about 1/5th of the screen. In
           | another couple years, it will be bigger than the actual
           | content you're trying to watch. I've taken to logging into
           | their site (via my cable subscription), copying my cookies,
           | then downloading the shows using yt-dlp and putting them on
           | my AppleTV because it's less annoying than trying to watch
           | the shows in the format they were broadcast in.
        
         | focusedone wrote:
         | Excellent reply!
         | 
         | Many were frustrated for so long with paying for alllll of the
         | cable channels so we could watch < 10. All I ever wanted was to
         | pay a flat fee per month for each channel. Well, now we live in
         | a world where that's possible and it's great!
         | 
         | Being able to subscribe to one service for a month or two,
         | catch up on a favorite program, then cancel paying for it when
         | that's done is an unimaginable convenience. Some make it
         | unnecessarily difficult to do that, but it seems like those are
         | the services with less interesting content anyway.
         | 
         | Anyway, I think where we're at with this is fantastic. Likely
         | we'll see some consolidation in the market where less
         | successful services disappear and other services suck up the
         | shows left behind. If that pendulum swings too far it'd be
         | unfortunate, but where we are right now seems to be a sweet
         | spot.
        
           | UberFly wrote:
           | Exactly. Also, who actually subscribes to everything in that
           | list in the article? Maybe 3 of them with the freedom to jump
           | around. Definitely an improvement over cable.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | When I dropped it my basic cable TV was more than $100/month.
         | Now I pay something under $50 (depending on how you count Prime
         | and my Apple One bundle) for what's probably frankly more
         | streaming options than I need. I _don 't_ have any live TV
         | though I could always add a service if I wanted to and I still
         | wouldn't be more than my cable bundle was.
        
         | slg wrote:
         | I don't disagree with your overall point, but calling cable ad-
         | filled compared to streamers like Netflix, Disney+, and HBO Max
         | is a little unfair because you are comparing live TV with on
         | demand TV. As long as you aren't watching live content, which
         | you can't even do with most streamers, it is pretty easy to
         | avoid ads with cable since DVRs have been an option for
         | decades. If you are watching live content like with streamers
         | like Hulu or YoutubeTV, you will see just as many ads streaming
         | as you do with cable.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | You're not "avoiding ads" by manually having to skip over
           | them.
        
           | colinmhayes wrote:
           | YoutubeTV is cable, not a streamer.
        
             | slg wrote:
             | What is your definition for "cable" and "streamer"?
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | cable is a collection of tv channels. Streaming is a
               | collection of on demand content.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | What is a TV channel? Several streamers align their
               | content into different verticals. When I log into
               | Disney+, the first thing I see is a selector for Disney,
               | Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, and National Geographic. Are
               | those channels?
               | 
               | What is a "collection" of TV channels? ESPN+ allows me to
               | watch what is currently airing on ESPN, ESPN2, etc. Their
               | content is primarily live rather than on demand, but they
               | only offer a very limited scope of content that all falls
               | under the same category and only originates from the same
               | family of channels. Are they actually cable?
               | 
               | Don't basically all cable companies offer some form of on
               | demand content? Are they all streamers too?
               | 
               | Honestly, I don't care about the answers to these
               | questions. They are rhetorical to show that it is hard to
               | draw nice clean lines around these which is part of my
               | original point that ads isn't what defines cable. Ads
               | come with live content, not with the distribution channel
               | for that content.
        
               | mbreese wrote:
               | That's what it means for you.
               | 
               | In many contracts it refers to the medium of
               | transmission. Cable requires a coax cable. Streaming
               | comes over the top on an internet connection (which
               | ironically might be provided via a coax cable).
               | 
               | I, for example, get my live TV as a bundle of channels
               | from DirecTV stream. It's called "stream". It requires no
               | cable box, is a mix of live and on demand, and I can
               | receive it anywhere over the internet (phone, home, work,
               | etc). I'd never consider this cable. I'd also never
               | consider satellite delivered TV cable, even if they are
               | very similar.
               | 
               | I think the nuances are a little more subtle than you are
               | admitting.
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | OTA HDTV is free, but with ads, and you do not have to pay $90
         | a month for internet on top of it.
         | 
         | Your ad free streaming services cost more than cable if you
         | include the cost of internet.
        
           | bedast wrote:
           | Your argument would make sense if all I used my internet
           | connection for was consumption of streaming media. Regardless
           | of whether I'm streaming media or not, I'm also going to be
           | working, chatting with friends and colleagues, playing games,
           | buying and selling, browsing the news, etc. My streaming
           | content just also happens to use that same communication
           | channel.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Cable also started off ad-free.
        
           | LeftHandPath wrote:
           | And netflix is adding advertisements.
        
             | bedast wrote:
             | To a cheaper tier to try to get people away from account
             | sharing. I fully intend to keep the tier that I've
             | purchased.
        
             | ComputerGuru wrote:
             | I thought that but it turns out that Netflix is
             | culturally/principally anti-advertisement. They're caving
             | to shareholder demand and introducing a cheaper, ad-
             | supported plan but their regular plans are - at least for
             | now - to remain ad-free.
        
           | glitchc wrote:
           | Exactly. A lot of folks forget that cable was offered as an
           | ad-free alternative to OTA broadcast TV. The selling feature
           | was that since you are paying for a subscription, the
           | platform was monetized and profitable, ergo no need for ads.
           | Sound familiar?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Cable was also started because certain areas had bad
             | reception so they multiplexed the signals together down a
             | single cable to avoid the reception issues.
             | 
             | There's a lot of competeing "cable was started" stories
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | There aren't any competing stories. It's not like the
               | inception of cable is loss to the annals of history.
               | There are just truths and falsehoods.
               | 
               | Basic cable was never ad free.
        
               | pessimizer wrote:
               | If by basic cable you exclusively mean network television
               | rebroadcasts, then of course that's true, unless they
               | were editing interesting content in on the fly.
               | 
               | But cable channels were ad free, and advertised as being
               | ad free.
               | 
               | "Well, Pay TV is fine to see
               | 
               | You get much better quality:
               | 
               | Broadway shows, heavy-weight fights
               | 
               | First-run movies every night.
               | 
               | Viewers of Denver, unite! . . . Nothing to lose but
               | commercials."
               | 
               | -- Talkin' Pay TV by Phil Ochs, 1963
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Basic cable included USA, MTV, CNN, ESPN, etc.
               | 
               | Premium channels like HBO always cost extra and were ad
               | free and still are on cable.
               | 
               | According to most articles I see, for the first 24 years
               | after commercial cable TV was a thing, it was solely used
               | to retransmit broadcast TV.
               | 
               | https://web.archive.org/web/20100905133543/http://www.nct
               | a.c...
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Well, I was being "friendly". Cable was never started as
               | an ad free thing. Cable was started to get a signal to
               | people that couldn't get a signal. That signal was the
               | same signal as everyone receiving over the air broadcast,
               | so it included all of the ads.
               | 
               | Premium cable channels came later. to quote a post up
               | stream "Sound familiar?"
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Premium cable was HBO, Showtime and Cinemax that you paid
               | extra for and were Ad free and still is.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | I knew this myth was going to be repeated as soon as I saw
           | the parent comment.
           | 
           | Basic cable has never been ad free. Cable started out as a
           | method to get broadcast TV - with ads - to people who
           | couldn't get it over the air.
           | 
           | Then the "Superstations" came like TBS and WGN. They were
           | local stations - with ads - that got transmitted nationwide.
           | 
           | Then the early cable TV only channels came online like CNN,
           | ESPN, and MTV - with ads.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | >First, those streaming services are ad-free. Cable is not.
         | 
         | like that will never change. Also in the case of Disney at
         | least, and maybe HBOMax, the existence of the service itself is
         | one giant platform for the media of the studio.
         | 
         | furthermore, where the studio based platform is concerned, it
         | used to be when you bought product placement in a movie you
         | were thinking not about how it would do after theatrical
         | release, but in the case of product placement in the large
         | studio associated movies, especially the ones Disney own of
         | shared universes, I think that should be a real consideration
         | and also in the coming years a selling point.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | So you really think HBO is not going to offer an ad free
           | version even though they have had an ad free offering since
           | 1980?
        
             | bryanrasmussen wrote:
             | are you under the impression that HBOMax is exactly the
             | same thing as HBO?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | I am well aware of the fact that HBO Max is the _only_
               | way that you can pay for standalone HBO content. Again do
               | you think that after 42 years that HBO will not allow you
               | to pay for ad free content? Has there ever been a premium
               | channel that was ad free that went ad only?
               | 
               | No basic cable was never ad free.
        
       | magwa101 wrote:
        
       | condour75 wrote:
       | The cable subscription has commercials. The experience of time
       | shifting and fast forwarding through commercials is inferior to
       | streaming.
       | 
       | Also, a cable bundle forces you to pay for Fox News, which is
       | primarily funded by carriage fees. They wouldn't last long on
       | robot insurance ads.
        
         | listenallyall wrote:
         | Since you're an expert, how long did CNN+ last?
        
         | yonaguska wrote:
         | Fox news has been beating out the other networks in ratings for
         | a while now though. I have no love for fox news, but it doesn't
         | seem true that they wouldn't last. Even more far right news
         | networks, that have been cut out of the normal media
         | distribution channels seem to be doing fine with organic viewer
         | support.
         | 
         | If Fox news ratings fall, it's because they are bleeding
         | viewers as they attempt to move back to the center and ditch
         | Trump. Notice that Carlson consistently has the highest ratings
         | of any fox news show...
        
       | ourmandave wrote:
       | I'd like to be able to binge a series for a one-time fee without
       | having to subscribe to the monthly service.
       | 
       | Food Network did that with Alton Brown's _Good Eats Reloaded_ in
       | 2018. You could watch it for free if you had a cablevision
       | subscription.
       | 
       | Or you could go to the Food Network site and watch the 1st season
       | like renting a movie.
        
       | fullshark wrote:
       | Yeah the market share war is ending and now it's about consumer
       | surplus capture from whatever market you've established +
       | acquiring/merging with other services.
        
       | FalconSensei wrote:
       | With cable you can't just choose "I want Disney and Discovery".
       | If those channels are on the most premium subscription, you get
       | 100 channels of useless content. Also, as other commenter pointed
       | out, cable has ads
        
       | scrivna wrote:
       | Best thing about streaming subscriptions vs cable IMHO is NO ADS
       | - I find it baffling people spend a hundred bucks a month on
       | cable and still accept like 30% of the airtime is ads.... just no
        
         | phone8675309 wrote:
         | There are plenty of streaming services that have ads - Hulu and
         | Disney+ have an ad-supported tier, for example, and it's
         | foolish to think that Netflix won't introduce an ad-supported
         | tier as soon as they think their customers won't revolt. It's
         | the most obvious solution to login sharing - give a very cheap
         | or free ad-supported tier and then monetize the hell out of
         | them.
         | 
         | Netflix already has ads - just for their own shows.
        
           | zerocrates wrote:
           | Netflix has already widely announced their intention to add a
           | with-ads tier.
        
           | joegahona wrote:
           | > Netflix already has ads - just for their own shows.
           | 
           | I think the industry term for this is "in-house ads," and
           | they've existed for as long as I can remember on premium-
           | cable channels like HBO, Showtime, etc. The experience would
           | be better without them, for sure, but they're less ugsome
           | than the typical programmatic ads you get on Youtube or Hulu.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Or you call them trailers in the movie theater (which
             | _also_ have ads). I don 't mind them and they're pretty
             | easy to skip in my experience.
        
           | pnutjam wrote:
           | Paramount+ has ads even if you pay for the ad free
           | experience. Really irritating.
        
             | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
             | I ran into this too, It was a bug in my view because
             | according to the service description ads would "sometimes"
             | show up during live programming. I guess it doesn't say
             | that ads WON'T show up elsewhere, but my assumption was
             | that they wouldn't.
             | 
             | I had signed up in '20 or '21 and I am curious if this is
             | still the same way.
        
               | pnutjam wrote:
               | I dropped it, but picked it back up for the Nick
               | programming. Still ads, but only a few, mostly at the
               | beginning. Really irritating, but I hear the ads version
               | is practically unwatchable.
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | Many streaming subscriptions have ads on their cheapest tiers,
         | requiring you to pay more if you don't want to see ads. And if
         | you're watching anything live, whether it's streaming or cable,
         | you're getting ads regardless.
        
           | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
           | I paid extra for the ad-free Paramount Plus. I was getting
           | un-skippable pre-roll ads before and during Star Trek
           | Discovery episodes. I contacted support and they said that
           | ads would sometimes show up during live TV. They didn't have
           | an answer for why ads were showing during Discovery. They
           | pre-rolls would sometimes take 5-10 minutes! I could go fix a
           | snack, put in a load of laundry and when I'd come back the
           | pre-rolls would still be playing.
           | 
           | Anyway, other than the programming the service itself was
           | awful and after going through the Star Trek back catalog I
           | cancelled. I may sign up again but after the bad experience,
           | I am not inclined to watch again. I really wouldn't want to
           | watch with ads if they paid me to do it.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | > Best thing about streaming subscriptions is that pirate sites
         | have all their content.
         | 
         | FTFY
        
         | wilde wrote:
         | This used to be a selling feature of cable. In the not too
         | distant future, all of streaming will have required ads too.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | There was never a time that basic cable was ad free.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | Sure, maybe they all do add ads. I wouldn't hesitate to
           | cancel everything. I'm happy to pay money for service, but
           | I'm also happy to cut ties with companies that actively
           | disrespect my time.
        
           | tastyfreeze wrote:
           | This creep has already happened. Hulu started free with ads
           | and the paid tier was ad free and had more content. Now the
           | base tier is paid AND has ads. Once the subscriber growth
           | plateaus all the streaming services will look for was to keep
           | revenue increasing. In swoop the advertisers with a big fat
           | stack of cash and an evil smile.
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | Best thing about piracy is that not only is there no ads, it's
         | that you don't have to even think which streaming service has
         | the particular show/movie you want. You also get to watch it on
         | any device of your choice, in any player of your choice,
         | completely offline. And you get to take screenshots. And it's
         | free. I simply see no reason to ever pay for movies and tv
         | shows -- you pay money AND get a worse experience.
        
           | guenthert wrote:
           | Well, there are plenty of benefits for all kinds of criminal
           | activity, they just share one common drawback.
        
             | selfhoster11 wrote:
             | Having to remember to use a VPN? Hardly a drawback.
        
               | hunter2_ wrote:
               | Well, there are really two drawbacks. Personal risk
               | (which, as you say, can be well-mitigated) and the
               | externality of other people being less well-off. Yes they
               | could choose to make things that aren't copyable instead
               | of things that are, but most jurisdictions have
               | structures telling them that free copying of the thing
               | they're making won't be tolerated.
        
               | selfhoster11 wrote:
               | I was talking from a purely mechanical perspective.
        
               | InCityDreams wrote:
               | Myself and several friends have several vpns and as we
               | can mostly use up to 5 devices we share the logins, as
               | required.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | In this case the drawback is the off chance you get a
             | strongly worded letter from your isp you can throw away
        
             | Teever wrote:
             | Pirating is not a criminal activity in my country.
             | 
             | It likely isn't a criminal activity in your country either.
        
               | selfhoster11 wrote:
               | Considering that HN slants heavily in the direction of
               | the US, I'm not sure the latter statement is that
               | accurate.
        
               | 9991 wrote:
               | It's civil, not criminal in the US. Nobody's going to
               | jail for copyright infringement.
        
               | mgkimsal wrote:
               | You just might get a crippling fine.
        
             | anonymou2 wrote:
             | I liked Pirates of the Caribean I, II and III !
        
             | Karunamon wrote:
             | Copyright infringement may or may not be criminal. While it
             | may technically be for the operators of the streaming
             | services, it is a civil matter from a user standpoint.
        
           | slfnflctd wrote:
           | It's fiddly, though. You need to pay for a VPN (and try to
           | pick one you can trust, which if you're even a bit paranoid
           | is none of them) or your ISP will shut off your service
           | (happened to me), if you require subtitles there's additional
           | hassle & they're not even always available, quality is
           | sometimes an issue and fake or mislabeled torrents exist.
           | 
           | I got tired of screwing around with it and decided 50 cents
           | or less a day per service was worth not having to. As a side
           | bonus, I get exposed to a lot of things I otherwise wouldn't
           | know existed.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | > You need to pay for a VPN
             | 
             | Not where I live. We instead use VPNs to access websites
             | blocked by the government.
        
             | andrewstuart2 wrote:
             | Usenet is worth the price. Sure, you can still VPN if
             | you're super paranoid, and sure, things get DMCA'd (slowly
             | and inconsistently), but with the fairly easy OSS
             | automation out there (radarr, et al, and sabnzbd in my
             | case) everything runs very smoothly (and way faster; I can
             | saturate my gigabit connection for nearly anything
             | regardless of popularity).
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | The funny thing about subtitles is that there are many,
             | many cases where you can find bootlegged subtitles for
             | content that don't even exist on the paid streaming service
             | that provides that content. The streaming services seem to
             | be getting better about this, especially for new content,
             | but there is still a vast library of content on e.g. HBO in
             | the U.S. that doesn't even have Spanish subtitles.
        
               | capitainenemo wrote:
               | Yes. It's enormously frustrating that I can not pay
               | Netflix, Google, Hulu to deliver me content in a language
               | other than English. Google's own support pages seem to
               | indicate that if I _did_ do a locale switch to, say,
               | France, that this was a fiddly process and that I would
               | lose all my purchases if I switched it back.
               | 
               | Physical media on Netflix DVD, however, still work just
               | fine and tend to have English and French and often
               | Spanish.
               | 
               | Also, a much larger catalog that hasn't been diced up by
               | license holders.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | rhacker wrote:
               | We're probably a couple years away from some AI service
               | that actually translates with character's voices. Heck
               | probably even adjust the mouth visual too.
        
               | WhyDoIThink wrote:
               | I'll support A.I. that translates those characters'
               | voices with different mouth visuals per language. That
               | would be convenient for people who get distracted by
               | subtitles and characters' mouths not matching words to
               | different languages.
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure I've found bootlegged subtitles that are
               | just machine translations of official subtitles in the
               | original language. And YouTube's speech-to-text automated
               | captioning is actually pretty good with single speakers
               | in English with good audio production, enough so that I
               | often use them to follow along with videos.
        
             | jumelles wrote:
             | None of this is true with private trackers.
        
             | RockRobotRock wrote:
             | I have an IPTorrents account (private tracker) that I have
             | heavily used for over 10 years without any VPN. Haven't
             | gotten a single DMCA.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | It's one of those weird things where if everyone chose the
           | superior experience it would cease to exist.
        
             | scarecrowbob wrote:
             | Only for certain modes of that experience:
             | 
             | there is already far more content than I will ever be able
             | to consume in 50 lifetimes.
             | 
             | My distaste for a lot of contemporary cultural products
             | aside (I'm okay if they never make another episode of
             | Cheers or MASH, but I can see how that would happen if the
             | creators weren't being paid for that), it feels likely to
             | me that if commercial media ceased production I still
             | wouldn't run out of stuff to watch even if I lived longer
             | than I expect.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | parkingrift wrote:
             | I am perfectly fine with that outcome as it would mean a
             | reset on how IP is delivered and owned.
             | 
             | When there are convenient options which respect users,
             | piracy goes down. It's as simple as that.
        
             | CommieBobDole wrote:
             | That hasn't always been the case, though - for many years,
             | I put away my parrot and eyepatch and rented or bought
             | content because it offered the best experience, even though
             | it cost a little money. Only recently has piracy again
             | become the least unpleasant way to consume content, and
             | it's not because piracy has become any easier.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Yes now all I have to do is trudge the internet for content,
           | make sure my Plex server is running, wait for content to be
           | available, hope it's popular enough that it is being seeded.
           | Then have to worry about the quality.
           | 
           | Or I can just pay a few bucks and watch what I want on any of
           | my devices.
        
           | bergenty wrote:
           | Yes it's a better experience but so is getting money by
           | robbing someone over working 40 hour weeks. I'm not saying
           | the two are the same because piracy is effectively victimless
           | (at least in the short term).
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | You're not robbing someone because you're not depriving
             | them of anything.
        
               | bergenty wrote:
               | You can make a case for the idea that if art is not paid
               | for then you're eventually stealing from content
               | creators.
        
           | Johnny555 wrote:
           | But quality varies, subtitles are an issue, and sometimes the
           | movie isn't complete and sometimes it doesn't match the title
           | at all.
           | 
           | I still prefer reasonable paid alternatives
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | For now. Eventually the greed is going to get to the point
         | where ads are mandatory regardless of what package you choose.
         | It's just a slow burn similar to what happened in publishing.
         | First there were ads. Then there were popup ads. It took an
         | entire army of people to get rid of the popups. So they
         | increased the ads, got more sophisticated on placement, and
         | made them far more insidious in terms of privacy violation.
         | Then they added paywalls, but removed the ads. Now they're
         | adding ads to paywalled content because of "added value for our
         | customers" when they aren't also doing sponsored newsletters.
        
           | joegahona wrote:
           | Your publishing analogy is interesting, but I would tweak it,
           | because most of "publishing" online was free and anonymous,
           | not paid, so the analogy to streaming video services isn't a
           | fair one. What _has_ happened, however, is that even paid
           | subscriptions on publishing sites such as the NY Times
           | include ads. That's bullshit, and I really hope streaming
           | video doesn't go that direction.
           | 
           | Do any paid online video services NOT offer an ad-free
           | experience now? To my knowledge they all do. Yes, Netflix has
           | rumblings about starting an ads tier, but the OP is still
           | correct, as far as I know, that the option for ad-free
           | viewing still exists.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | I don't think this is a realistic take. There are a large
           | number of consumers willing to pay for no adds, and fewer
           | barriers to market entry than cable.
           | 
           | Even cable, with its relative monopoly had packages with no
           | adds like HBO.
        
             | phone8675309 wrote:
             | When cable first started many, many channels had no ads
             | either, and they caved once they realized they could get
             | away with it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | No many channels were not ad free when cable first
               | started. Only channels that were premium,
               | 
               | When cable first started, it was a method to rebroadcast
               | local stations where you couldn't get a signal over the
               | air. The first basic cable only channels were also ad
               | supported.
        
             | Nasrudith wrote:
             | I recall hearing about spammers and mailing lists that some
             | advertisers are a special kind of stupid who think "willing
             | to pay not to see ads" means "extra lucrative demographic".
             | Hearsay but it seems consistent with bad advertising
             | practices like "punch the monkey and autoplay banner ads".
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | If you're attracting eyeballs, and not selling some time in
           | front of those eyeballs to advertisers, then you're leaving a
           | lot of money on the table.
        
             | Nasrudith wrote:
             | For paying eyeballs is under the assumption that those
             | eyeballs are yours permanently and won't leave. It is that
             | kind of thinking which got cable disrupted hard.
        
             | marssaxman wrote:
             | If you're waiting for that golden goose to produce more
             | eggs, instead of cutting it open and taking them all at
             | once, are you leaving a lot of money on the table?
             | 
             | I am probably more extreme than most, but I simply will not
             | pay you if your offering has ads.
        
         | sprkwd wrote:
         | I just watched the new Game of Thrones show on NowTV. It had
         | ads before and during the show.
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | Jim Barksdale [1] is right again, the only way to make money is
       | by bundling and unbundling. The cable companies bundled,
       | streaming/cordcutting unbundled, and now we're seeing bundling
       | again (Disney+, Hulu included w/ Verizon cellular as an example).
       | 
       | [1]: https://hbr.org/2014/06/how-to-succeed-in-business-by-
       | bundli...
        
         | resfirestar wrote:
         | Most of the carrier "On Us" offers are just free trials, that
         | Verizon one for example is a 6 month trial. T-Mobile does an
         | ongoing one for Netflix, but even the most premium plan only
         | gets the Standard tier, they're clearly counting on people
         | being tempted to pay for 4K and more than 2 devices.
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | The Verizon one is not a 6 month trial. It's included in
           | their highest tier along with Apple Arcade or Google Play
           | Pass, and it's "permanent".
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | The site is almost unreadable since it aggressively tries to
       | redirect to itself with my adblocker active, but there's a point
       | that it doesn't address: non-US viewers are still getting the
       | short end of the stick where it concerns content availability,
       | and moves like HBO's removal of content are twice as hurtful to
       | us.
       | 
       | (We have our own streaming services and telco bundles, of course,
       | but the content itself does not move freely)
        
       | georgeecollins wrote:
       | This is a terrible comparison because no one has to buy all those
       | services and in fact few do. The problem with cable was,
       | regardless if you wanted it you got almost everything,
       | particularly the most expensive package ESPN, whether you watched
       | sports or not.
       | 
       | Also, in Los Angeles, without any premium channels we have always
       | paid more than $80.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | There was always OTA (over the air). To hell with ESPN.
        
         | edgyquant wrote:
         | Not only that but I feel that a lot of these "are we going back
         | to cable" are people too young to have used it.
         | 
         | Having to pay for a bunch of a channels you didn't want wasn't
         | at all what separated cable from streaming.
         | 
         | Being able to choose what you watch along with not paying for
         | the pleasure of watching ads is why streaming won out.
        
           | Johnny555 wrote:
           | _Not only that but I feel that a lot of these "are we going
           | back to cable" are people too young to have used it._
           | 
           | The worst part of cable is the ads - when I travel and go to
           | a hotel, I find that cable TV is unwatchable, it feels like
           | 25% of the playtime is devoted to ads.
           | 
           | I've started carrying an Amazon Fire Stick with me if I'm
           | going to be in a hotel for more than a few days (usually for
           | work) since most TV's have an accessible HDMI port, then I
           | can watch all my streaming channels. Hotel Wifi is so spotty
           | that I normally use a hotspot.
        
           | dvtrn wrote:
           | Not to mention being able to cancel a streaming membership
           | without going through the eight layers of contact center hell
           | that still exists to this day for many cable providers.
        
             | palebluedot wrote:
             | And I remember being locked into a contract term as well
             | for cable or satellite. All of these comparisons of
             | streaming to cable of yore seem pretty far off, since you
             | can mix & match services, binge, cancel some or all of
             | them, re-subscribe later, etc. All without contract terms,
             | and all without needing to do more than a few mouse clicks.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | It was ESPN years ago that broke the camel's back for my family
         | and i to cut the cord...and the cost involved was only $4.95
         | per month. I say "only" because compared to the rest of my
         | monthly cable bill, that didn't repsrenst a majority. It was
         | the fact that i had no choice to remove ESPN - which i never
         | watched anyway. So, Cablevision - or really maybe Disney/ESPN's
         | contracts with cablevision - forcing me to pay a fee every
         | month for something that i don't want was just so annoying,
         | that i forever killed my cable subscription. And, in fact, all
         | those years ago i even stopped watching "regular" TV...and i
         | got my news from the web...and i'm not a mileniall which is
         | often the assumption that many poeople make of me, when i tel
         | them my streaming services origin story. Finally, all those
         | years ago since i cut the cord, i have been hell bent promoting
         | to everyone about the advantages of cutting the cord and moving
         | to streaming services...in essence Cablevision and Disney/ESPN
         | converted me int o an unpaid PR person for years now for
         | streaming services! :-p
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | >>because no one has to buy all those services and in fact few
         | do
         | 
         | I don't know if it's strictly the case. I think it depends on
         | how we slice and dice.
         | 
         | I cannot pay for Marvel movies without paying for Alladin and
         | Little Mermaid (Disney+)
         | 
         | I cannot just pay for Star Trek Strange New Worlds without
         | paying for... I don't even know what, honestly, CBS All Access
         | / Paramount + / whatever it's called these days holds no other
         | interest to me.
         | 
         | I get Prime, but increasing amount of movies I want are behind
         | complex channel bundles. wtf is STARZ?
         | 
         | If you are a family with parents, children, and perhaps even a
         | grandparent, you will have an increasingly comparable number of
         | subscriptions, monthly outlay, and hassle ("I want to watch X;
         | is it on any services I subscribe or do I have to commit my
         | life to yet another" is a privileged but unnecessary problem I
         | do not desire to have and it's solely on industry's shoulders)
         | 
         | Netflix had promise. Netflix was the Spotify of visual content.
         | My one place with simple good interface that I can find all the
         | content available, or at least good 80-90% of the middle of
         | bell curve. The one monopoly I wholeheartedly desired to remain
         | a monopoly.
         | 
         | Here's a statement of personal perspective: "For me and anybody
         | I know (friends & family), we are 100% moving toward Cable days
         | in any and every way that matters to us". While we may be able
         | to find a lens through which that is not technically the case,
         | I personally find that immaterial. The immense prolifieration
         | and fractalization of streaming providers benefits them, and is
         | absolutely 100% against my convenience, budget, preference and
         | best interest.
        
           | KerrAvon wrote:
           | I really don't understand the issue -- you're not forced to
           | pay for more than a month at a time. Pay for a month of
           | Paramount+ and then cancel once you're done watching Strange
           | New Worlds. You just paid $10 for 10 episodes of Trek. Seems
           | fair.
           | 
           | Disney+ is an even better deal -- _all_ of the Marvel movies
           | you can watch at their monthly price.
        
           | Mindwipe wrote:
           | > I cannot pay for Marvel movies without paying for Alladin
           | and Little Mermaid (Disney+)
           | 
           | Lol yes you can.
           | 
           | > Netflix had promise. Netflix was the Spotify of visual
           | content. My one place with simple good interface that I can
           | find all the content available, or at least good 80-90% of
           | the middle of bell curve. The one monopoly I wholeheartedly
           | desired to remain a monopoly.
           | 
           | No, it didn't. Netflix never had anything like this. Netflix
           | never had even a tenth of modern, mainsteam content. Not even
           | close. Never in it's entire history. It just used to be aimed
           | more at Hacker News typical audience demographically.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | Netflix streaming never had the majority of video content
             | available like Spotify has the majority of music available
        
               | NikolaNovak wrote:
               | But that was the promise and hope.
               | 
               | Or to put it another way - myself and everybody we know
               | would prefer if Spotify for video content existed. The
               | proliferation of services that are removing content from
               | Netflix so they could host it on their own crappy system
               | and app is purely bad for me with no benefit. Just like I
               | don't want Spotify to suddenly become Columbia+ and bmg
               | all access and whatever million music publishers there
               | are each with their own crappy service.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | No one who knew how movie licensing work with the various
               | release windows thought that was possible.
               | 
               | It worked with DVDs because of the first sale doctrine.
        
           | KerrAvon wrote:
           | And did you ever actually use cable? Top end packages can be
           | $200 a month, and you generally don't get to choose what to
           | actually watch when you want to watch it. And most of it is
           | unwatchable trash.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | > I cannot pay for Marvel movies without paying for Alladin
           | and Little Mermaid (Disney+)
           | 
           | > I cannot just pay for Star Trek Strange New Worlds without
           | paying for... I don't even know what, honestly, CBS All
           | Access / Paramount + / whatever it's called these days holds
           | no other interest to me.
           | 
           | Do Blu-rays and VODs just not exist anymore? You can
           | absolutely pay for just what you want. I mean honestly how
           | much does a collection of all the MCU movies through Endgame
           | cost if you were to buy them discretely? $20 per in
           | iTunes/TV, and what was it something like 20-25 movies? So
           | $400-500 if you wanted every single one, and you can get at
           | least some of them for cheaper if you get the Blu-rays off
           | Amazon and Renting is an option if you only want to watch a
           | particular movie once.
           | 
           | Or $80/year if you don't mind subsidizing Walt Disney
           | Animations and Pixar. Honestly I think it's a toss up whether
           | renting, buying or streaming is more economical because it
           | comes down to your habits, and streaming is only the clear
           | winner if you binge a lot.
        
             | NikolaNovak wrote:
             | Sure, but Blue rays or DVD or VHS existed in time of cable
             | too, so either they're irrelevant go conversation /
             | comparison, or we've moved the goalposts.
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | >Do Blu-rays and VODs just not exist anymore?
             | 
             | Yes. My mom watched an episode of Ted Lasso on a flight
             | recently, and was interested in watching more. It is
             | straight up Apple TV+ only. No physical media release or
             | VOD. Subscription only.
             | 
             | Same with a bunch of animated shows that HBOmax axed
             | recently. They were streaming only with no other releases,
             | and it is now impossible to watch any of the past episodes
             | legally.
        
               | SllX wrote:
               | That sucks. I'm sorry.
               | 
               | I am curious whether Apple might release the TV+ VODs
               | sometime down the line though.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | For me, a few streaming services make sense even without
             | binging. But people do seem to forget there's a la carte
             | streaming and DVD rental/purchase. In fact, if you want to
             | watch a lot of films, you may be better off with something
             | like Netflix DVDs by mail than another streaming option.
        
               | SllX wrote:
               | For sure. I think streaming is still the winner--but more
               | debatably so--under certain other circumstances
               | (international access, availability after air date,
               | exclusivity, etc.) but only the _clear_ winner versus the
               | other options if you binge a lot.
        
           | standardUser wrote:
           | The cable days bordered on a dystopian nightmare. Channel
           | flipping, appointment viewing, endless ads. Most content was
           | inaccessible most of the time. Miss an episode? Tough shit.
           | We were watching what someone else wanted us to watch, when
           | they wanted us to watch it, and we payed for the privilege.
           | The only people that ever seemed to like that grotesque
           | relationship with TV were the Boomers.
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | Exactly. That was my thinking.
         | 
         | Who would pay for all these services that have so much overlap
         | in content with one another?
         | 
         | Terribly inefficient way of doing shit.
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | I just pay for 2-3 streaming services BUT I haven't stopped
       | paying for TV. They don't compete at all to me. Streaming is
       | pretty bad for news and other live non-sports TV.
        
       | kin wrote:
       | I can pick and choose which streaming service to subscribe to. I
       | can cancel and resume at the click of a button w/o dealing with
       | some retention salesperson. It's ad free. There's exclusive
       | content. The apps are higher quality. I could go on and on.
       | 
       | Cable seems to be advertised as cheaper somehow (if I bundle
       | probably), but I'm stuck with Spectrum in my area and I refuse to
       | give them more money than I need to. Knowing them, they're just
       | going to raise prices quietly hoping I don't notice.
       | 
       | The problem is that there are simply too many shows being made
       | right now and quite honestly I don't think people actually have
       | the time to watch all these shows so it's not sustainable that so
       | much high quality content is being produced. At some point these
       | services are going to drop down to just a few winners.
        
       | benknight87 wrote:
       | I'd like to pay creators directly for the things I watch and cut
       | out the middle man entirely.
        
         | throw0101a wrote:
         | Isn't that what Patreon is for?
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | Patreon is a middle man. But that aside, there's a limit to
           | the type of content you can get via Patreon, and TV shows /
           | movies are largely on the other side of that line.
           | 
           | And it makes sense, film requires up-front funding and takes
           | a fair bit of time to produce. Even one-creator studios like
           | Adi Shankar only put out one video every year or two.
        
       | yesUgotit wrote:
       | Yeah? The Walmart model works; start low, inflate prices to make
       | up margins as interest/competition falls off.
       | 
       | You expect the owners to adapt?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | danwee wrote:
       | The only "feature" I would introduce to streaming services like
       | Netflix/Disney+/etc. is make possible to "constantly stream
       | content". When I had cable, I liked to just turn on the TV, and
       | bang! I got content on the screen. Switch channel, and bang! we
       | are now in the middle of a classic movie! Next channel, and bang!
       | in the middle of a great song from the 90s!
       | 
       | Now, of course, I could just use "normal TV" for that. The
       | difference is that "normal TV" doesn't offer a great catalogue
       | like Netflix/Disney+ (to some extent).
       | 
       | More often than not, when I want to sit down and watch something
       | on Netflix/etc. (e.g., some weekends), I do this:
       | 
       | - sit on the sofa
       | 
       | - turn on TV, switch to Netflix (HDMI channel)
       | 
       | - spend 30 to 40 minutes browsing the catalogue to find something
       | decent to watch
       | 
       | - I cannot find anything decent, so I give up and turn off the TV
       | 
       | I like to have "background noise" from time to time, and I would
       | prefer to have background noise coming from the
       | Netflix/Disney+/etc. catalog than the one coming from the "normal
       | TV" (mainly because I live in a country where I'm not fluent in
       | the local language).
        
         | jsellers0 wrote:
         | The feature I really want to see is a "marathon mode" for tv
         | shows: play episodes in a random or shuffled order.
        
         | falcolas wrote:
         | > I liked to just turn on the TV, and bang! I got content on
         | the screen.
         | 
         | Netflix gets this, and random content is one button press from
         | the first screen. Kinda neat, even if it's not something I use.
        
         | sudden_dystopia wrote:
         | " - I cannot find anything decent, so I give up and turn off
         | the TV"
         | 
         | This is me about 50% of the time. I always hear that there is
         | just so much content. But I would never watch most of it. I'd
         | rather watch YouTube wood working videos all day.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | That's why my wife will never move over to streaming. She has a
         | few channels she likes to watch, and knows when her favorite
         | shows are on. She just wants to sit down at that time, switch
         | to the right channel, and watch her show. None of the streamers
         | offer this, from what I can tell.
         | 
         | My wife and I have started traveling again, and when we visit
         | AirBNBs, we've noticed that fewer and fewer offer basic cable
         | with their homes anymore, so we played around with streaming
         | and hate it. Instead of "turn on HGTV at 8PM" it's now:
         | 
         | 1. Do some research on the Internet about which streaming
         | service offers HGTV.
         | 
         | 2. Sign up for it.
         | 
         | 3. Figure out how to log into that streaming service in the
         | AirBNB.
         | 
         | 4. Scroll through the streaming's terrible UI to find the name
         | of the show.
         | 
         | 5. Decide which episode to watch ("I don't care--I just want to
         | watch whatever is on right now!")
         | 
         | In some AirBNBs you can skip 2 and 3 if the host left the
         | previous occupants logged in. But either way, it's a terrible
         | user experience compared to "sit down and turn on the TV". So,
         | cable still wins in our household even though it's expensive.
        
           | MisterBastahrd wrote:
           | Youtube TV and the Hulu TV option both offer exactly that.
           | You go to the Live tab and scroll down to your channel. You
           | can also use an internet-only DVR if you want.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Interesting. Didn't know that. Looked it up and both
             | Youtube's and Hulu's "Live TV" plans cost more than the
             | incremental cost of Cable TV, so we're still back where we
             | started.
        
               | MisterBastahrd wrote:
               | Around here it's about the same given my options, but I
               | do like the portability.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | pdntspa wrote:
       | There's a simple solution to this: stop watching TV
       | 
       | Consume media that you own. Buy physical copies. Pirate. Read.
       | Play!
       | 
       | We gave up control of our media and now we pikachu_sad_face.gif
       | when it turns against us.
       | 
       | This is what we get for being lazy consumers.
       | 
       | Meanwhile those of us with hoardes of media files, DVDs, and Blu-
       | Rays can sit atop our pile of entertainment and laugh at the
       | peasants that gave it up
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | Couldn't agree more. In my house, Han shoots first.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | Waiting for the old Slashdot meme: "I haven't owned a TV for 20
         | years. Do people still watch TV?"
         | 
         | Yes how much have you spent for your "hoards" of DVDs?
        
           | pdntspa wrote:
           | For some of us, a lot, but at the end of the day... it's paid
           | for and ours in perpetuity. The will and greed of adversarial
           | publishers means nothing to us. Can you say that about the
           | cloud?
           | 
           | Now that I think about it... I've probably spent less on my
           | physical media than you've paid in subscription fees, in
           | total.
           | 
           | And again, I can do what I want with it.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | I'm slowly getting through all of the Star Trek series
             | right now.
             | 
             | The box sets for TNG, DS9 and Voyager alone are $135 each.
             | I didn't bother to look to see the cost of the box sets for
             | TOS, ENT, and the movies. Let's say around $900 in all.
             | 
             | Paramount+ has all of those available for $9.99 a month and
             | I can watch them while I'm traveling on my phone, my iPad,
             | the hotel TV using the Roku stick I bring with me. Yes I
             | know I can set up a Plex server and spend the time to rip
             | all of those DVDs. Been there done that. I had a Mac Mini
             | connected to my TV running Front Row from 2006-2012 and
             | then a Plex server from 2012-2020.
             | 
             | And that doesn't take into account all of the new series
             | that are only available for streaming - Discovery, Strange
             | New Worlds and Lower Decks.
             | 
             | If you're not a ST fan, substitute whatever you are a fan
             | of.
        
               | pdntspa wrote:
               | I've picked up the ST:TNG Blu-Rays and most of the movies
               | for far less than MSRP. I mean if you want to pay retail
               | price for everything than go right ahead...
               | 
               | But the whole time-share cornucopia argument doesn't work
               | for me because the video quality for most streaming is
               | ass. Some of these shows it's like watching web videos in
               | the 90s through RealPlayer
               | 
               | Meanwhile AnyDVD HD and Plex licenses are cheap, and also
               | perpetual!
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | How much is your entire collection compared to $9.99 a
               | month for Paramount+?
        
               | pdntspa wrote:
               | I don't know (I get everything on sale or bargain bins,
               | maybe a couple hundred bucks in total?)
               | 
               | It's also unfair to not include Netflix, Disney+, a
               | portion of Amazon Prime, and whatever else, multiplied
               | times however many months you've been using them (so
               | likely 50+)
               | 
               | If you factor in the cash spent on computer hardware,
               | software, and storage media, we're still sitting on maybe
               | a thousand or two over a 10+ year period. But that gets
               | murky as nearly all these things have other uses.
               | 
               | I'd bet that _still_ costs less than most households '
               | cable/streaming bills over time
               | 
               | Being extremely picky with your media consumption helps a
               | ton!
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | I don't need but one service to get all of the Star Trek
               | episodes. Also, I used Star Trek as an example because it
               | had by far the largest library of any franchise and the
               | most box sets.
               | 
               | Disney franchises are basically movies and streaming only
               | TV series so it wasn't as extreme as Star Trek. Besides,
               | there are still a couple of gaps in their Marvel Universe
               | library.
               | 
               | Netflix really doesn't have much worth paying for
               | anymore. The only reason I keep it is because T-mobile
               | gives me a $14 discount.
               | 
               | Amazon Prime Video by itself wouldn't even be something
               | making it worth keeping Prime.
               | 
               | I also get HBO Max free (for now) by having AT&T fiber
               | for internet.
        
       | eaglehead wrote:
       | I wonder if there is a room for a single viewer to bring all
       | these subscription services into one place. You log into this one
       | portal, connect all your streaming services with it and it
       | creates a singular viewer.
       | 
       | As a user I don't want to jump from app to app to find my fav
       | programs.
       | 
       | Perhaps a wishful thinking or a new YC startup?
        
         | spikej wrote:
         | It's called Pirate Bay :P
        
           | eaglehead wrote:
           | oh yeah.. I kinda forgot about that.. :)
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | At that point they are little more than fancy file servers with
         | some form of shared auth instead of walled gardens which I'm
         | sure will not happen. The main issue being that content hosts
         | lose control over playback which the content owners want tight
         | control over to ensure every penny is extracted.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | One advantage of streaming over cable is no contracts. This makes
       | it easy for you to cancel/switch services.
       | 
       | Because of this, and the fact that streaming is async, you can
       | alternate services every month to save money while at the same
       | time not missing out on exclusives.
        
         | kardos wrote:
         | > One advantage of streaming over cable is no contracts. This
         | makes it easy for you to cancel/switch services.
         | 
         | The deal will soon change from $10/mo to $10/mo (with annual
         | subscription) or $20/mo (month to month)
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | "Starting to reveal"? The first time Netflix had to remove
       | content from their catalogue because a competing streaming
       | service was getting set up by the license holders, this was both
       | the inevitable and immediately obvious conclusion.
       | 
       | There was a brief utopian moment in time where you could just
       | watch what you wanted, when you wanted, the way you wanted, `from
       | a single service, and then reality kicked back in. In the same
       | way the internet was a weird and free place and then reality went
       | "actually, no, we can make more money if we make it a terrible
       | place and charge you a fee to temporarily make it slightly less
       | terrible for you".
        
         | nightski wrote:
         | It's not that simple. Providers simply can't go back to the old
         | days. They will push consumers to their limit, but I just don't
         | think people are interested in paying $150/mo for scheduled
         | programming with ads any more.
         | 
         | In the end it will likely be a compromise. But it's a good time
         | to vote with our wallets.
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | Piracy is still better and cheaper.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | Piracy has always been better and cheaper, but it
             | (thankfully) isn't how the vast majority of people consume
             | content.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | > I just don't think people are interested in paying $150/mo
           | for scheduled programming with ads any more.
           | 
           | They were never interested in that, it's all that was
           | available. "Pay TV" started off with no ads. Eventually, it
           | will be all that is available again.
           | 
           | You'll always be surprised at what peoples' limits are when
           | you push them slowly enough.
        
           | TheRealPomax wrote:
           | I never said it was sustainable, but the chain of events
           | definitely is that simple. Netflix ran into the fact that it
           | offered literally too good a deal for others to not cash in
           | on by making the ecosystem worse so that _they_ can charge
           | people to make it convenient again instead. The fundamental
           | principle behind making money is having something that people
           | want, and then making sure it 's inaccessible to them unless
           | they pay you for it.
           | 
           | The "making things terrible" comes from content companies
           | going "we have a licensing system in place, we've used it for
           | cable providers for decades, and we even used it for
           | streaming services, but now we're going to cancel that and
           | start our own vertically integrated lock-in service because
           | we'll make way more money that way". While it makes sense,
           | and everyone could have, and very much did, see it coming,
           | it's still the kind of move that historically would have
           | gotten your company broken up. But that's a power modern
           | government seems to no longer _want_ to wield anymore,
           | despite our wishes they did.
        
             | tomjakubowski wrote:
             | As long as barriers to entry to hosting content and
             | releasing streaming apps remain low, this all seems fine.
             | Where is the potential to abuse the vertical integration?
             | 
             | Even if Disney owned Akamai or something, there's decent
             | competition in CDNs.
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | They were on the way to free over the air free HDTV till the
         | cable companies started trying to kill it.
         | 
         | To me it is messed up the commercial/programming/cost ratio if
         | you look at providers like youtube and Hulu. We are all getting
         | less for more money.
         | 
         | And all this streaming just fragmented society even more. I
         | remember when we all used to (locally) talk about the recent
         | show that we all watched at the same time, or the same news
         | program. Now you have to catch up to all your friends because
         | they streamed a whole series in one night. I mean we should
         | just call them extended length movies anyway.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Streaming shows can drop weekly. HBO and Apple do it.
           | Arguably it would help keep people from hopping around
           | services.
        
         | powerhour wrote:
         | I'm ok with content being spread across competing services. If
         | Netflix was the only game in town (like it pretty much was for
         | a while) we'd see less content.
         | 
         | I don't find the pricing of any existing service objectionable.
         | I can pay about $15 and watch whatever I want in their catalog
         | for a month, then cancel if I decide to try a different
         | service. It'd be different if I were stuck in some long
         | contract but I've yet to see that in the streaming market.
        
           | guelo wrote:
           | They're planning on clamping down on users like you. One of
           | their next moves will be getting rid of the binge model and
           | returning to trickling out episodes over months.
        
             | powerhour wrote:
             | They're going to try to stop me from resubscribing? I'm
             | small time but I'll still say it: their loss.
        
               | Gigachad wrote:
               | The likely first step will be heavy discounts for paying
               | annually rather than monthly.
        
           | anthonybennis wrote:
           | Agreed. Just subscribe for a time to watch what you consider
           | their AAA content and then move on to next service. Suits the
           | binge series watching habit.
        
             | incahoots wrote:
             | You can sign up with trials that require a CC and utilize
             | something like privacy.com to create hard limit virtual
             | cards so you aren't chasing services around to determine
             | when it'll pull from the card and the unavoidable PITA it
             | is to cancel said services.
        
         | danijelb wrote:
         | Problems for Netflix started when they started competing
         | against other content providers with their own original
         | content. If they didn't produce their own content and just
         | provided a distribution platform for others I think we would
         | still have everything on Netflix
        
           | xahrepap wrote:
           | Is that how it happened? My memory is more: Content started
           | disappearing so Netflix started producing original content as
           | a safety net.
        
           | dont__panic wrote:
           | I wish it could be that way, but the content providers
           | started to jack up their prices and withhold certain content
           | a long time before Netflix started their own content factory.
           | Hulu, owned by one of the largest content providers out
           | there, was the turning point. In retrospect it might have
           | been a good time for government to step in and declare that
           | content providers and streaming services must be separate for
           | the good of consumers.
           | 
           | Interestingly, the same thing _almost_ happened with Spotify,
           | but most artists eventually came back instead of defecting to
           | other services. I know there are some exclusive artists on
           | each platform, but we 've somehow dodged that same bullet
           | with music streaming. Maybe because there are 3-4 relatively
           | popular services, and artists have a little more sway over
           | their distribution? Of course, Spotify is currently commiting
           | this same sin in the podcast space so it's not like their
           | hands are clean.
        
             | dopeboy wrote:
             | This is a huge point that I bet there will be many business
             | case studies around: why didn't what happened to Netflix
             | happen to Spotify?
             | 
             | I thought Tidal was going to be that. Remember their first
             | promo video [0]? Full of A listers pretty much declaring
             | that they're making an artist collective? It had every
             | reason to occur...except it didn't. Why?
             | 
             | [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYYGdcLbFkw
        
               | mongol wrote:
               | Was it not that Spotify let record companies in on
               | ownership, making it a joint venture of sorts?
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Reason #1: if your work is still available on a cheaper,
               | bigger platform, people are not likely to switch to the
               | the more expensive, smaller platform.
               | 
               | If your old work is still available on the cheaper+bigger
               | platform, but the new work is only on the more
               | expensive+smaller platform, maybe the true fans will
               | switch, but A-listers don't make money just from the true
               | fans.
        
               | dopeboy wrote:
               | It is my understanding - and correct me if I'm wrong -
               | that a-listers have the leverage to move their entire
               | catalogue over if they wish.
               | 
               | Could they have, en masse, done this over to Tidal? Would
               | that have broke Spotify?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Spotify is not exactly a shining beacon on the hill for a
               | successful company. They aren't profitable and they are
               | total beholden to the record labels. They are forced to
               | give 70% of their revenue to record labels. Their fixed
               | cost go up in lockstep with their revenue - not exactly
               | the model of a successful tech company.
               | 
               | Netflix paid a fixed amount to license content and then
               | could spread that cost as it gained customers. It's the
               | same with their own content. They never have to pay the
               | content producers again for the content they fund.
        
               | kmeisthax wrote:
               | ...until Netflix's licensing agreements expire, which
               | they do regularly. Then the networks demand twice as much
               | money and they have to either keep growing to outpace the
               | cost of licensing or jack up subscription fees, or both.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Or they "become HBO before HBO becomes them". That was
               | the entire reason for them doing their own content.
        
               | dopeboy wrote:
               | I would argue they are in a much more stable position vs
               | Netflix. They are the one stop shop for every kind of
               | audio. Retention will be the true barometer here.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | How is a company that is not profitable and will never
               | make more than a 30% gross margin on a customer in a more
               | stable position?
               | 
               | They are also suffering from the "DropBox problem".
               | Streaming music is not a product. It's a feature. Their
               | largest competitors don't have to make money on streaming
               | music. Streaming music for Apple and Amazon are just
               | features to sell hardware.
        
               | dopeboy wrote:
               | Is this were the case, why is Amazon's and Apple's
               | pricing the same as Spotify's?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Spotify isn't profitable. Apple and Amazon don't need for
               | their streaming products to be profitable as stand a line
               | services.
               | 
               | Just like Microsoft doesn't need for OneDrive to be
               | profitable by itself - hence the "Dropbox problem".
               | 
               | https://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/why-dropbox-founders-
               | said-...
               | 
               | Do you think AppleTV+ is profitable as $7.99 stand alone
               | service?
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Doubtful. The studios were always going up launch their own
           | competing service and not license their content to Netflix.
           | HBO plainly refused to even entertain that conversation and
           | then the race was on - could Netflix become HBO faster than
           | HBO could become Netflix.
        
           | triceratops wrote:
           | Nope. That's the fast lane to getting ground down by content
           | owners; they'll determine how much profit you're allowed to
           | make. See also: Pandora, Spotify.
        
         | koofdoof wrote:
         | I agree with the point of your post, however I question whether
         | streaming's utopian moment even actually happened. I was a very
         | early adopter of Netflix streaming and their catalog was quite
         | poor for a long time. Just tons of cheap no name filler
         | content, old public domain type stuff, and a surprising amount
         | of softcore pornography. There were high profile movies and
         | shows sometimes too, but they were the exception and even back
         | then they would get removed regularly. Today's streaming
         | landscape, greedy as it may be, at least offers the ability to
         | stream premium content that Netflix never would have had even
         | in their days of solo dominance. Perhaps the streaming golden
         | age is closer to something that could have been, rather than
         | something that actually was.
        
           | guelo wrote:
           | There was a period when they had a content deal with Starz
           | that their catalog was pretty beefy. They also had a lot of
           | Disney's stuff for a long time.
        
           | kmeisthax wrote:
           | Perhaps people are remembering DVD rental Netflix. It was
           | slightly less convenient but had _literally everything_.
        
             | smm11 wrote:
             | Netflix streaming had literally everything for a time. Now
             | it's literally all Netflix productions.
             | 
             | No thanks.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | There was never a time that Netflix streaming had a majority of
         | the popular movies available.
        
           | TheRealPomax wrote:
           | It didn't need to, we were still happy enough to go the
           | cinema for box office releases back then. Remember that
           | streaming, despite how it might feel, is a stupidly recent
           | thing. Disney went "let's get in on this cash cow" less than
           | 5 years ago.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | Netflix started streaming in 2007. It came to mobile in
             | 2010 with the introduction of the iPad. Hulu was also
             | launched in 2007.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Netflix streaming was unexceptional. I dropped it when it
               | became an extra cost option and didn't pick back up again
               | until House of Cards. Sadly their DVD service has decayed
               | considerably.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | This is why everyone should pirate.
         | 
         | People on here love to complain about Facebook hating their
         | users.
         | 
         | I don't see any companies that despise their users quite like
         | Comcast and At&t and Disney.
        
           | happyopossum wrote:
           | > I don't see any companies that despise their users quite
           | like <snip> Disney.
           | 
           | I don't get this take. Disney spends billions of dollars to
           | make movies and TV shows that I and my family want to watch.
           | I pay them $8/mo, and I get to watch all of them, whenever I
           | want.
           | 
           | How is that a bad thing?
        
             | shultays wrote:
             | After an update, my tv got unavoidable disney ads on its
             | home page. I had to downgrade it and disable updates. And I
             | dont even have Disney app is installed. I consider them to
             | be pretty evil
        
               | incahoots wrote:
               | Sounds like you made the mistake of enabling your TV to
               | gain access to a network. There's dozens of articles that
               | spell out why that's a horrible idea, your experience is
               | one of those reasons.
               | 
               | Never allow a television access to your network, you get
               | a dedicated device to do the streaming/airplay/chromecast
               | features and that's it.
        
           | fullstick wrote:
           | I'm starting to think the NFL really hates their viewers.
           | It's quite expensive and challenging to watch every game a
           | single NFL team plays in a season.
        
             | Tommah wrote:
             | The local games are all broadcast over the air, even the
             | ones that are shown on the pay services. (I live in
             | Philadelphia, and I watch all the Eagles games with a TV
             | and an antenna.) However, if you're a fan of an out-of-
             | market team, it may be a pain to see all their games, as
             | you say.
        
       | glanzwulf wrote:
       | This type of conversation always upsets me. No one person can
       | consume so much content that they would subscribe to 8+ services.
       | 
       | That's the beauty of streaming services. No forced ads, watch
       | whatever you want whenever you want, and no yearly forced on
       | contracts.
       | 
       | Sign up to 1, consume, cancel, sign up to 2, and keep it up.
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | The problem is that content is pretty well dispersed across
         | multiple platforms.
        
       | Taylor_OD wrote:
       | thehustle went from putting together decent articles to absolute
       | garbage like this low effort graphic. Sure if you purchase all
       | the popular streaming services it will be more expensive than
       | cable. But like cable you will be paying for a lot of content you
       | dont actually watch. That content will be on demand but that
       | doesnt mean you will ever actually watch it.
        
       | redleggedfrog wrote:
       | I have an exceptionally hard time with the value proposition
       | here, for either streaming or cable.
       | 
       | $90/mo is about $3.00 a day (streaming) and $80/mo is about $2.66
       | a day (cable).
       | 
       | I have a life, I don't have time to watch something every day. So
       | maybe every other day, or every 3rd day. That has me paying $5 or
       | $6 to watch maybe an hour every other day. There is nothing they
       | can show me that's worth that - my time is too valuable. And
       | really, I watch something maybe 4 times a month, and that breaks
       | down to $22 a view. WTF.
       | 
       | So I have Netflix DVD, and that's it. I watch a movie every once
       | in a while, and the rest of the time am out and about which I'm
       | fairly certain is a way better use of my time from just about
       | every perspective.
       | 
       | My questions becomes, why would _anyone_ pay this much?
        
         | Jemaclus wrote:
         | > My questions becomes, why would anyone pay this much?
         | 
         | The simple answer is that "anyone" is really broad! More
         | specifically and to state the obvious, not everyone is you!
         | There are a _lot_ of people who watch far more than you do. If
         | you watch two 1-hour episodes per day, then it becomes $1.50
         | per hour is a pretty great deal in terms of entertainment.
         | (Compare that to $25+ for a movie at a movie theatre, or $60
         | for a Broadway show, or $20 for an hour at your local rock
         | climbing gym.)
         | 
         | I don't disagree with your overall premise -- it's expensive!
         | -- but it's not _not_ worth it for a lot of people, including
         | myself.
        
       | AJRF wrote:
       | We're going back to the piracy days, ya harr!
        
       | running101 wrote:
       | It is only a problem if you subscribe to all those services.
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | Who's got time to watch shows from all these services?
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | Comparing a stack of unbundled $5-$20 items to a monolithic
       | bundle isn't very wise.
       | 
       | That $75 bundle is one thing: a service with channels.
       | 
       | Each one of those items is a thing like that: a service with
       | channels. It's almost like those 8 services that add up to $89
       | are 8 different cable boxes in one (and in theory you could own 8
       | streaming boxes and install each on a separate one).
       | 
       | Pick one or two and be happy.
       | 
       | You can share passwords with friends and family members easily on
       | some of them to save money.
       | 
       | I don't know about cable everywhere, but cable boxes in Canada
       | are tied to a particular subscriber line. You can't just put one
       | in your suitcase and watch your stuff in another location, like a
       | hotel room.
       | 
       | They have shitty, antedeluvial remote controls with way too many
       | buttons, which are hard to use. The software is garbage.
       | 
       | You can't go back in time to view programs, except ones you've
       | laboriously arranged to be recorded.
       | 
       | The Shaw cable boxes don't even have their own HDMI-level volume
       | control. The volume control on the remote sends _IR_ commands to
       | the friggin ' TV to change the TV volume.
       | 
       | With any decent IP streamer, that's not the case; you set the TV
       | volume to 80% or whatever, and then forget about it, using the
       | streamer's own volume control: the quick, responsive Bluetooth-
       | based volume control that doesn't need a line of sight to an IR
       | LED, and doesn't go through 100 steps.
       | 
       | I don't understand why that has any customers at all, or any who
       | are under 75.
        
       | causi wrote:
       | Once upon a time I consumed content by keeping video files in
       | folders and watching them with VLC. Then I subscribed to Netflix.
       | Now I'm back to keeping files in folders, except now I have Plex
       | to give me the convenience.
        
         | 300bps wrote:
         | IRC + Plex = automatic download of any content I want available
         | for streaming on any device anywhere in the world.
         | 
         | I still have Netflix (free with my mobile provider), Disney+
         | (free with my Internet provider) and Hulu (got Black Friday
         | deal for $1 per month).
         | 
         | Don't really watch anything on any of those streaming services
         | though.
        
           | jerezzprime wrote:
           | Do you have any references/documentation for how the IRC side
           | of this setup works?
        
             | yeswecatan wrote:
             | I, too, am interested in learning more.
        
               | inversetelecine wrote:
               | Most common method of using IRC is using the irssi client
               | with autodl-irssi typically done on a seedbox. Everyone's
               | setup is different though.
               | 
               | https://autodl-community.github.io/autodl-irssi/
        
       | mr90210 wrote:
       | Cable? Nah, a NAS and torrents is the way to go.
        
       | nootropicat wrote:
       | Streaming isn't really competing with cable but with torrents.
       | 
       | If DRM ever gets good enough to block piracy (imagine displays
       | themselves using ml to recognize what are you watching and if you
       | are allowed to) streaming will become worse than cable ever was.
        
       | FollowingTheDao wrote:
       | Ha! You are all going to be charged three times for content now!
       | Once for the internet connection, once for the subscription
       | service and again for the ads.
       | 
       | This is progress? They have you by your addictions.
        
       | Johnny555 wrote:
       | I limit myself to 3 streaming services, when I get bored with the
       | content in one, I cancel it and switch to another.
       | 
       | It's still annoying that content is spread over so many streaming
       | services, but I'm never going back to cable.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | Same here! And, on the rare occasion, my partner every once in
         | a while wants to watch a "blockbuster movie" that is out only
         | in theaters (not includied in any streaming services' regular
         | content library for the subscription price)...so on a rare
         | occasion we will rent/buy a "blockbuster" from amazon prime,
         | vudu, etc. I dislike it because sometimes just 1 new, big-
         | budget movie might cost as much as a full month's worth of
         | streaming service...but it is still waaaay cheaper (and pletny
         | more convenient) than both of us going to see the movie in an
         | actual, physical theater (with the rest of the germ-producers
         | out in the world). ;-)
        
       | mtoner23 wrote:
       | Only 2 things you can do in business. Bundling and Unbundling
        
       | andrewclunn wrote:
       | I gave up piracy in my 20s. Looks like it might be time to sail
       | the high seas again.
        
         | proton_9 wrote:
         | PirateBay ftw eh? haha.
        
       | rhacker wrote:
       | I think I said this a few months ago, but the main difference is
       | that I'm not paying for all those services all the time.
       | 
       | I only get HBO when the entire next season is out of something I
       | am watching.
       | 
       | Prime is probably the exception, however even for that, with
       | inflation I'm considering cancelling that too and just upping my
       | Amazon orders past the $35 (or whatever it is) minimum to get
       | free shipping.
       | 
       | Point is, Cable is like one giant minimum price of boring with
       | ads. Individual services are better even if I can't watch some
       | netflix show right now, I can do so after I cancel Hulu or
       | whatever I am binging is done.
        
         | thewebcount wrote:
         | Yeah, we've taken to signing up for services, watching what we
         | want and unsubscribing. We do it all through AppleTV, which
         | allows us no-hassle cancelling, so no calling anyone or
         | whatever. For several services, there was so little we were
         | interested in that we ended up cancelling before the free trial
         | was up.
        
       | madrox wrote:
       | This was obvious to me in 2014, when I was part of the earliest
       | discussions at Disney for building a streaming service. It was
       | obvious to everyone working in the space.
       | 
       | As we started discussing partnerships with various providers to
       | help distribute, it became clear they wanted a window into our
       | service where they could see what was available and direct link
       | to content in our streaming apps. Essentially, they wanted to
       | keep owning the customer's experience and pass them to us to
       | watch something. Everyone wanted to be in the position to be the
       | next cable company.
       | 
       | Even Apple. Apple TV+ is one of the latest movers here, and I
       | think it's because they were pushing hard for a while to be that
       | "we own the customer experience" layer but the content companies
       | had gotten wise to Apple's tactics since the early days of
       | iTunes.
        
         | dopeboy wrote:
         | This is fascinating. Can you share more on when and why Disney
         | decided to build their own streaming service?
        
       | buscoquadnary wrote:
       | Just a reminder there is only one way you will ever own what you
       | purchase, and it involves Jolly Roger and a bottle of rum.
       | https://www.theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
        
         | adventured wrote:
         | > there is only one way you will ever own what you purchase
         | 
         | Other than the gigantic number of blu-ray and 4K discs
         | available for movies and shows, which you can purchase to own.
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | For now. The comic OP linked to pointed out that (when it was
           | written) GoT wasn't available on DVD anywhere. Disney is
           | particularly bad about making their stuff unavailable in any
           | form - expect DVD distribution to slowly go away as the
           | content owners push you to their streaming sites.
        
           | buscoquadnary wrote:
           | Sure as long as the player you buy continues to operate, the
           | regional keys don't get borked, and the market continues to
           | support that blu-ray player, and doesn't deprecate with a
           | "newer", "better", "smart" version that is incompatible with
           | previous discs.
        
             | Mindwipe wrote:
             | All of which seem roughly as likely as your hard drive
             | falling over at the same time as it's backup.
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | I have a PLEX server/torrent box behind a VPN. I then wrote a
         | fairly simple Apple Shortcut that grabs the magnet link off
         | whatever page I'm on, then shoots the magnet link over the
         | torrent API.
         | 
         | It took some work to set up, but I shared the Apple shortcut
         | with my wife and she now uses it and it's super easy and
         | convenient. So much so that I need to buy a new hard drive as
         | she's filled up our 8TB drive with TV shows.
        
           | 300bps wrote:
           | 18 TB drives are the sweet spot for price right now.
        
             | inversetelecine wrote:
             | I feel this year around the holidays (US) will see good
             | deals on HDDs. Prices have held steady for a rather long
             | time e.g. 4TB still around 80-120 for consumer and nas
             | based drives.
             | 
             | Drive shucking is still viable depending on the external
             | drive, for anyone who wants cheap(er) drives but with some
             | work.
        
           | password4321 wrote:
           | Do you watch content more than once?
           | 
           | Just curious because I tend not to (except for Equilibrium,
           | of course).
           | 
           | I've heard most things worth watching are still out there
           | later on, maybe just keep the links.
        
         | dylan-m wrote:
         | I've been really disappointed with Reservation Dogs'
         | arrangement. Brilliant little bite-size show, but their network
         | means they only stream on Hulu or Disney+ (not sure if it's
         | even on Disney+ in the US?) and they don't sell episodes a la
         | carte _at all_ , right now, in Canada. Even if you are okay
         | subscribing to a new streaming service just for that show, you
         | need to spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring out which
         | one it is for the country you are in. So I'm sure the show will
         | soon be cancelled due to "weak viewership", probably oblivious
         | to how difficult they've made it to actually watch the thing
         | legally.
         | 
         | I feel like there was a very nice short-lived window where
         | networks were just trying to distribute stuff profitably
         | instead of using everything as a vehicle to increase subscriber
         | counts, but that moment has clearly passed.
        
       | deegles wrote:
       | We hit peak content years ago (more content produced in a year
       | than you could ever possibly watch). As more and more streaming
       | services use their data to tailor content creation, we'll also
       | hit peak personalized content as well. However, it's split up
       | between all of those streaming services.
       | 
       | IMO, all content should be available to license on a per-second
       | basis (like radio music). Maybe with some tiers for more or less
       | desirable stuff. Then streaming platforms could compete on
       | features, and content studios could focus on content. And we can
       | finally have one service for everything.
        
       | pgtruesdell wrote:
       | The bundling and unbundling cycle continues.
        
       | pnutjam wrote:
       | Anybody try this out? Looks interesting, but might be a pain to
       | use with a family.
       | 
       | https://bobstreamingclub.com/
        
       | phone8675309 wrote:
       | Going back to? We're already there.
       | 
       | Every media company decided they wanted to take their own slice
       | instead of having a small number of services cover different
       | types of entertainment.
       | 
       | At this point I'd rather pirate because a) it's cheap as free b)
       | I'm not at the mercy of my ISP deciding how fast my stream can
       | go, and c) I never have to worry about a show I'm watching
       | getting pulled and locked into another paywalled garden that
       | probably has a shitty app that my HTPC doesn't support in the
       | middle of me watching it.
        
         | Markoff wrote:
         | it's not even pirating in EU if you use DDL (or torrent without
         | uploading), check question 8 and 11 for instance in Czechia,
         | Slovakia, Spain, too lazy to check other countries, but these
         | are well known for allowing streaming/downloading unauthorized
         | uploads
         | 
         | https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faq-cs...
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | It's illegal in Germany
        
           | klez wrote:
           | I don't think "pirating" is a legal definition.
           | 
           | By the way, point 8 has an important caveat at the beginning:
           | 
           | "It is possible to make a copy of a work for personal use
           | _under the exceptions contained in the Czech Copyright Act._
           | "
           | 
           | (Emphasis mine)
           | 
           | Point 11 only says that you're not responsible for copyright
           | infringement if your use falls into what's described in
           | art.29 of the copyright act (the "three steps", which
           | according to point 8 are described in that article), which
           | according to google translate says
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | > (1) Exceptions and limitations of copyright can only be
           | applied in special cases established by law and only if such
           | use of the work does not conflict with the normal way of
           | using the work and neither does it the legitimate interests
           | of the author are not unreasonably affected.
           | 
           | > (2) Free use and legal licenses, with the exception of the
           | official license and news (SS 34), license for school work
           | (SS 35 par. 3), license for reproductions of works from own
           | collections for archival and conservation needs [Section 37
           | paragraph 1 letter a)], license for temporary reproductions
           | (SS 38a), a license for a photographic likeness (SS 38b) and
           | a license for non-essentials secondary use of the work (SS
           | 38c), apply only to the published work.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Which to me reads like the usual fair use exceptions you find
           | in other countries.
           | 
           | In Italy, at least, downloading copyrighted content without
           | authorization is not a felony, but you can still get fined. I
           | expect much of the EU to have similar provisions.
        
         | AmVess wrote:
         | The cost for streaming is pretty reasonable right now, but HBO
         | splitting their offerings in half and most of them having ads
         | unless you pay more to not have them will push a lot of people
         | back to piracy.
         | 
         | It is really easy these days to set up a media streaming app
         | that automatically downloads new movies and shows, all you need
         | is a VPN. No ads, and you don't need 300 different streaming
         | apps.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | The difference is I pay for ad-free content. Otherwise I would
       | never watch the shows to begin with.
       | 
       | As these providers look to profit with more ways to add ads to
       | their services, I'm sure people like me will find new ones who
       | respect that transaction of pure content.
       | 
       | I don't want images to be implanted in my head because I'm too
       | cheap. I don't think you can put a price on that.
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | I've pivoted to buying DVD box sets and then ripping and NAS-ing
       | them. It takes time but: zero ads ever no matter what, cheaper in
       | the long run, and my shows never get taken down or moved to a
       | different company.
       | 
       | Why pay $20 per month to rewatch Friends/Seinfeld/whatever if the
       | box set is $60?
       | 
       | I can even set up some sort of internet-facing NAS server that I
       | can watch on the go.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Up your game and start getting the dvds from the library
        
           | yegle wrote:
           | Or better, if you are in the US chances are your library has
           | collaboration with Kanopy so you can just stream for free
           | using your library card.
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | Kanopy's great, but it's probably not gonna have
             | Friends/Seinfeld or whatever the parent comment was
             | ripping.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Doing that as well. And let's be clear, unripped DVDs contain
         | ads (if I have to skip through previews and crap before I can
         | watch the content, that's advertising.)
         | 
         | I have an app that plays this ripped content on a schedule very
         | much like a TV channel (no pausing, rewinding, no way to choose
         | what is on when -- the schedule dictates). I love it. Even
         | though I am creating the schedule with my own (local) content,
         | there is still the serendipitous nature of walking by the TV
         | and seeing a particular old Twilight Zone on.
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | Yeah but for someone like me who rarely rewatches things it's
         | not really a solution.
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | I'm the same. I want new content. I very rarely go back and
           | watch something I've already seen. (And I _never_ need to see
           | Seinfeld or Friends again! After long runs, they ran in
           | syndication for years, and then were on streaming services
           | that were ad-free for years. Really, they weren 't that good
           | to begin with!)
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Yeah. I've even bought some DVD box sets. I find I watch
             | some episodes here and there for nostalgic purposes and
             | then they gather dust.
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | It is if he gives you a login to his NAS.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | Haha, I should start a service. Fredflix
        
             | bergenty wrote:
             | If it's on DVD I've probably already seen the content at
             | that point.
        
         | lijogdfljk wrote:
         | I did that too. Though i'm finding it difficult to get a lot of
         | newer content on DVD these days. Ie most new streaming shows..
         | do they have box sets in your experience? My wife has been
         | looking and so far i think we have .. well, none.
         | 
         | But we have quite a bit of content. Netflix (DVD), ironically,
         | is a good source for this too. .. rules aside, i'm sure.
        
           | FredPret wrote:
           | I usually follow the idea of letting new content (books,
           | TV's, movies) sit around for a decade or so and then going
           | for the ones that are still well known.
           | 
           | Of course there are exceptions. Those ones are available for
           | purchase on Apple TV or are showing in theatres. For the
           | rest, there are box sets on Amazon/EBay
        
           | dudul wrote:
           | Can you name a few that you haven't been able to find?
        
             | lijogdfljk wrote:
             | Just asked her (she's been the one buying our collection
             | haha) and sounds like fairly early on she had trouble with
             | many of them and so eventually she just gave up looking.
             | The only example she had off the top of her head was
             | Stranger Things Seasons 3 and 4. A quick search on Amazon
             | seems.. confusing haha.
             | 
             | On the flipside i'd be curious if you have had luck from
             | any sources on buying boxsets for modern streaming shows.
             | Any tips?
             | 
             |  _edit_ : She replied with additional items:
             | 
             | > Off the top of my head:
             | 
             | > None of the Marvel shows on Disney+ have physical
             | 
             | > None of the Amazon Prime shows have physical
             | 
             | > None of the AppleTV+ shows have physical
             | 
             | > The first 2 seasons of stranger things do but are out of
             | print. Subsequent seasons and any other show from that time
             | period on are not available.
             | 
             | > Star Trek streaming shows ARE available but insanely
             | expensive (8-10 ep seasons for 50-70)
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | > Why pay $20 per month to rewatch Friends/Seinfeld/whatever if
         | the box set is $60?
         | 
         | For technically inept people ... the convenience of not ripping
         | or learning how to set up their own NAS.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | I had a media PC from 2006-2012 and then a Plex server until
           | 2020. I really got sick of dealing with it. I pay for
           | convenience.
        
       | themitigating wrote:
       | My parents used to pay $110~ a month for a cable package, decent
       | number of channels, and HBO back in the late 90s. This is
       | significantly more expensive than it is today.
        
       | pleb_nz wrote:
       | I doubt many would subscribe to all services.
       | 
       | Most people I know are 2 to 3.
       | 
       | Would would be interesting though is if you started adding other
       | digital services into that mix. e.g. you tube premium, Spotify
       | and the like.
       | 
       | I know my kids and their friends watch very little TV and movie
       | streaming services, it's either gaming or you tube.
        
       | Gualdrapo wrote:
       | Never left cable, in part because third world problems, but also
       | couldn't justify the extra expense a streaming service meant. Not
       | an avid consumer of TV content anyway, one can get almost as many
       | TVs as they want without extra stuff or extra money and since the
       | signal is through digital the quality is on par with optic fiber.
        
       | etempleton wrote:
       | The one big advantage beyond on demand hs scheduled programming
       | is a la carte pricing. Consumers asked cable for a la carte
       | pricing for years and it was never an option because no one would
       | subscribe to a 200 dollar package then. People only really watch
       | 5-10 channels.
       | 
       | With that said this was the perdictable end. These companies are
       | going to want to grow their revenue and they are all peaking in
       | subscriber growth so increasing pricing is the logical step.
        
         | brk wrote:
         | I've worked in the cable TV industry in the past. For the most
         | part, the cable companies have little control over the channel
         | bundles, they really wouldn't mind offering a la carte options,
         | but they are forced themselves to get channels in bundles from
         | the content owners. Much of this has changed in recent years
         | with NBC/Comcast and Charter owning more of the source content,
         | but a lot of the other channels are sill provided by outside
         | companies, who do not want to unbundle them.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I feel like I got into the habit of watching way too much TV
         | during the pandemic, and haven't managed to shake it yet, but
         | still only have like 2-3 shows in the queue at any given time.
         | How are people watching 5-10 channels?
        
           | etempleton wrote:
           | If you are a sports person you might watch just one team but
           | it could be spread across multiple channels. Then you might
           | watch a couple of shows each on a different channel. And then
           | maybe you have one or two other niche channels you like.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Ah, I forgot about sports. Well, that sounds pretty
             | annoying!
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | Even without sports, my spouse and I watch a bunch of shows
           | that air at different times of the year, on different
           | services. We watch a bunch of AppleTV+ shows (For All
           | Mankind, Severence, Invasion, Ted Lasso, etc.), a few shows
           | on Netflix (Stranger Things, Umbrella Academy), a few shows
           | on cable channels (Home Town, The Gilded Age, etc.), a few
           | over-the-air shows (The Good Doctor), etc. Like you say,
           | there are only 2 or 3 available at a time, but they're still
           | spread all over the place. I don't mind too much. We actually
           | had a lull so we subscribed to Hulu for Reservation Dogs and
           | Only Murders in the Building. When those end in the next
           | month, we'll cancel and move on to something else.
        
           | MisterBastahrd wrote:
           | My sports teams are LSU, the New Orleans Saints, and the New
           | Orleans Pelicans.
           | 
           | LSU has games on CBS and ESPN.
           | 
           | The Saints have games on Amazon, ESPN, CBS, NBC, and ABC.
           | 
           | The Pelicans have games on NBC and TNT.
           | 
           | And when I say ESPN, that could be ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN-U, The
           | SEC Network, etc.
        
             | UweSchmidt wrote:
             | And for tennis if you go pure browser, no set-top boxes:
             | 
             | Normal tournaments on tennistv.com for 15EUR/month.
             | 
             | Australian, French and US Open on Eurosport (online over
             | Eurosportplayer) for 7EUR/month.
             | 
             | Wimbledon however is only on Sky, that's 35EUR/month, I
             | skipped that. (That is for Germany).
             | 
             | It's a lot of content, affordable, and you deal with
             | slightly broken websites. Why can't they just show the
             | unspoiled bracket, a notification if a match is complete or
             | ongoing, allow manual unspoilering of individual matches or
             | rounds, and a direct link from the bracket view to the
             | individual match video or stream? /rant
        
       | CatWChainsaw wrote:
       | Once Netflix had a competitor and shows were forced to pick their
       | streaming service it was only a matter of time before Cable 2
       | Electric Boogaloo happened. And now that markets are saturated
       | and people are stretched thin by the last two years, we'll start
       | seeing the nastier tricks like bringing back ad tiers, and maybe
       | punitive and labyrinthine cancelation policies will be next.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | Well... Cable has real time streams and programming you need to
       | catch (some do offer on-demand as well, and some extra services
       | such as Disney and Netflix) and has tons of channels bundled in
       | such ways you can't get the service without them (I'd pay extra
       | not to have Fox News, for instance, even more for nobody within a
       | 10 mile radius not to have it).
       | 
       | The traditional streaming services? You don't _have_ to subscribe
       | to all of them. I 'm very happy with Amazon, Apple TV+ (bundled
       | with iCloud) and Netflix.
        
         | Markoff wrote:
         | > I'd pay extra not to have Fox News, for instance, even more
         | for nobody within a 10 mile radius not to have it
         | 
         | nobody stops you from buying big land
         | 
         | I am happy with my subscription to these streaming services:
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | > I'd pay extra not to have Fox News, for instance, even more
         | for nobody within a 10 mile radius not to have it)
         | 
         | With old-school analog TV, injecting noise at the right
         | frequency in the cable will blank the channel of your choice
         | for all the people connected to the same cable, up to some
         | distance... of course it's definitely illegal and the cable
         | company can probably find you. Unfortunately with digital TV
         | it's much more complicated as several channels will be
         | modulated on the same stream/carrier frequency...
        
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