[HN Gopher] Universal influenza B vaccine induces broad, sustain...
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       Universal influenza B vaccine induces broad, sustained protection
       in mice
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2022-07-11 18:57 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.gsu.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.gsu.edu)
        
       | netcraft wrote:
       | Can anyone speak to these nanoparticles and why this technique
       | hasn't been seen before? Maybe more generally why we haven't
       | targeted this part of the virus that doesnt change?
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | Without really knowing the first thing about it, I'm curious if
         | the nanoparticles discussed here are the same or similar to the
         | "virus-like particles" that Medicago describes as being the key
         | to their vaccine technology:
         | 
         | https://medicago.com/en/our-technologies/virus-like-particle...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus-like_particle
         | 
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7905985/
         | 
         | (Disclosure: I was a participant in the phase 3 trial of
         | Medicago's CoVLP/Covifenz vaccine)
        
         | Moto7451 wrote:
         | This is all state of the art research. It's the same reason we
         | didn't have mRNA vaccines 10 years ago.
        
           | BitwiseFool wrote:
           | And from what I understand, mRNA vaccine technology was
           | languishing before the urgency of Covid put their development
           | into overdrive.
        
         | sterlind wrote:
         | We didn't know what part of the virus would change before the
         | virus started changing. A small number of patients developed
         | broadly-neutralizing antibodies (bnABs), which not only wiped
         | out Covid classic, but kept working well against the other
         | variants too. Once we found out what part of the spike protein
         | those antibodies bound to, then we knew what to target. But
         | it's still not easy to raise antibodies to recognize specific
         | sites on a protein - the more "context" you include, the more
         | likely it is that your immune system will find another, less
         | effective, handle on the protein to grab and call it a day.
         | 
         | I suppose we knew about pan-coronavirus conserved sites before,
         | but it (imo) would have been too risky to try targeting those
         | sites with the first mRNA vaccines - one experimental
         | technology at a time.
        
           | ch4s3 wrote:
           | If targeting pan-coronavirus conserved sites works out, it
           | will be big news for other vaccines in the future.
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | Each nanoparticle holds 20 antigens next to each other. The
         | researchers say this provides a stronger signal to the immune
         | system that there is a danger. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-
         | events/nanoparticle-flu-vacci...
        
       | blueflow wrote:
       | Why should i believe this vaccine protects me and people around
       | me from Influenza? Will it be better than the COVID vax that
       | ended up only reducing the risk of a bad case?
        
         | Brian_K_White wrote:
         | I don't understand the purpose of this question.
         | 
         | If you're looking for an excuse not to take it when it
         | eventually becomes available, that's a long way off yet and
         | seems a silly thing to worry about.
         | 
         | What other possible points for such a question... are you
         | suggesting they just shouldn't even be researching?
         | 
         | In what way is a treatment that helps even 10% not better than
         | nothing, when nothing is the only other option in existence?
         | 
         | I see no admirable way to unpack this question.
        
           | dannyw wrote:
           | The newsworthy aspect of this is "broad, sustained
           | protection". The parent comment directly questions this, and
           | it's a very reasonable thing to ask; particularly with recent
           | events showing a questionable job at it.
           | 
           | If you make a claim for a new solar cell technology that
           | doesn't degrade over a century, people can question whether
           | that claim is true or not, without implying that solar
           | technology should not be researched.
           | 
           | And there's certainly no need to speculate on people's
           | intentions, like questioning if someone is making excuses for
           | big oil.
        
             | Brian_K_White wrote:
             | I consulted my official reference for reasonable and it
             | didn't decree either comment reasonable or unreasonable.
             | It's almost like it's not even much of a statement.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >Why should i believe this vaccine protects me and people
         | around me from Influenza?
         | 
         | You shouldn't. It has only been tested "in cell culture and in
         | mice". Its efficacy in humans will be determined in _human_
         | clinical trials.
         | 
         | >Will it be better than the COVID vax that ended up only
         | reducing the risk of a bad case?
         | 
         | This table shows that it's still effective "against symptomatic
         | disease" and "against infection".
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-...
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | Reducing the risk of a bad case _is_ protecting people from the
         | virus.
        
         | birdmanjeremy wrote:
         | TBF, that'd still be a win if it worked for all variants of the
         | flu.
        
       | puffoflogic wrote:
       | Frankly, it would have been idiotic for vaccine makers not to use
       | the New and Improved (TM) definitions of vaccine effectiveness to
       | promote old vaccines as more effective now.
        
         | large-if-true wrote:
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" The nanoparticle vaccine was tested in cell culture and in
       | mice."_
       | 
       | OK, progress, but not that far along yet.
       | 
       | There's a similar COVID vaccine, from Caltech and Oxford, in
       | about the same stage of development.[1] Phase I testing in humans
       | should start some time in the next year.
       | 
       | This is encouraging.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/e2-80-98all-in-
       | one-...
        
         | hahaitsfunny wrote:
        
           | bobbyasdfasdf7 wrote:
        
             | hahaitsfunny wrote:
        
               | dang wrote:
               | We've banned this account for using HN primarily for
               | ideological and political battle. That's not allowed
               | here, regardless of what you're battling for or against.
               | It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it
               | is for.
               | 
               | If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email
               | hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that
               | you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site
             | guidelines. You can't do that here, regardless of how wrong
             | someone is or you feel they are.
             | 
             | If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email
             | hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that
             | you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
           | If anything I'd be worried that big pharma tanks anything not
           | in their financial interests, like permanent prevention.
        
             | hahaitsfunny wrote:
             | Eh, they still get funding and money from rich elites and
             | the government either way. Many board members in big pharma
             | served in the government and many former politicians serve
             | on the boards of big pharma. The conflict of interests is
             | amazing, but I'm pretty sure they all made out well enough
             | on COVID.
             | 
             | Klaus Schwaab and the WEF too, since they were running
             | virtual scenarios on zootonic novel coronaviruses breaking
             | out and mandatory lockdowns, etc... a year before COVID-19.
             | Then he wrote that whole COVID-19 the great reset book.
             | Seems like everyone's making a killing off these vaccines,
             | and the world population, are well, just dying.
             | 
             | From a virus, which still hasn't been confirmed, to not
             | have originated in a lab. Or a group of experimental
             | vaccines rushed into production. One of the two.
        
         | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
         | The amount of 'HIV cures' compared to drugs that actually hit
         | the market are disproportionate. I don't fully know what causes
         | trials to fail but I would assume failure rate is pretty
         | substantial, so I won't hold my breath.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | An HIV vaccine is really hard.[1] The human immune system is
           | very poor at fighting HIV. People do not recover on their
           | own. There is no had HIV, recovered, now immune state.
           | 
           | COVID and influenza are much easier, because the human immune
           | system can fight off those viruses reasonably effectively and
           | most people recover. A vaccine just has to replicate having
           | had the disease and recovered.
           | 
           | Here's an article from _The Lancet_ on the many COVID
           | vaccines using this approach now in test.[2]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-developing-
           | hiv...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8602808/
        
             | amluto wrote:
             | > COVID and influenza are much easier, because the human
             | immune system can fight off those viruses reasonably
             | effectively and most people recover. A vaccine just has to
             | replicate having had the disease and recovered.
             | 
             | Really?
             | 
             | Influenza mutates and mostly escapes natural immunity all
             | the time. Essentially everyone has had the flu and
             | recovered, and a lot of people (and almost all children?)
             | have been vaccinated. Yet the flu still circulates. The
             | whole point of this new vaccine candidate is to produce
             | _better_ protection than natural immunity or the current
             | vaccine.
             | 
             | COVID is so new that the endgame isn't really known, but
             | reinfections with different variants seem to be fairly
             | common. Certainly the other (non-COVID) human coronaviruses
             | reinfect humans regularly. (They account for 1/3 of common
             | colds by estimates I've seen, and there are only four of
             | them. The average person gets many more than 12 colds in
             | their life.)
        
               | ASalazarMX wrote:
               | > Influenza mutates and mostly escapes natural immunity
               | all the time
               | 
               | You're right, it does, and the parent comment is also
               | right that your immune system will fight it and win again
               | most of the time.
               | 
               | HIV is special because your body will fight it, but lose
               | the battle given enough time. The Human Immunodeficiency
               | Virus targets your immune system, and gradually weakens
               | it until you can't fight even common fungus spores.
               | 
               | COVID storms the gates and the soldiers fight it back,
               | HIV sneaks into the castle and attacks the barracks in a
               | war of attrition.
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | None of this is relevant. They were responding to a
               | comment bringing up how many hiv vaccines appear and fail
               | trial. The flu and covid are different from hiv in the
               | way this comment describes.
        
           | ch4s3 wrote:
           | HIV is unusually difficult to target and mutates very
           | rapidly. It also has the ability to intertwine itself with
           | DNA in CD4 lymphocytes and then start reproducing after a
           | long period of dormancy[1]. Other viruses don't do that.
           | 
           | [1] https://news.weill.cornell.edu/news/2020/04/hiv-hides-in-
           | imm....
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | Is what HIV does with lymphocytes, similar to what herpes
             | does with nerve cells?
        
               | ch4s3 wrote:
               | No HSV works differently[1], it produces chemicals that
               | surpasses the immune response.
               | 
               | [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_virus#Imm
               | une_ev...
        
             | foobiekr wrote:
             | Do we know other viruses don't do that or just don't know
             | of other viruses that do?
        
             | nickmyersdt wrote:
             | > Other viruses don't do that.
             | 
             | ...yet
        
               | ch4s3 wrote:
               | I mean other retro-viruses exist, but but only HIV and
               | HTLV-1/2 make humans sick.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | OK, we've inmiced the title above. Thanks!
        
       | TheBlight wrote:
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | Sign me up. I'll gladly be in the human trials for this.
       | 
       | The potential benefits to society are _huge_. Economic impact:
       | How many people each year have to take time off work because they
       | 're sick with the flu? Societal impact: how many people each year
       | die years earlier than they otherwise would have from the flu?
       | 
       | And if it means I also don't spend 72 hours sweating in bed with
       | fever dreams every year (as I do), I'm _down_ to be the first one
       | lined up to get the jab.
        
         | t0bia_s wrote:
         | How many people die or have medical problems because of
         | vaccines? I know many unfortunatelly. I rather have cold once
         | in three year than risk damaging my immune system by injecting
         | uknown chemicals.
        
           | chowells wrote:
           | I would recommend getting a vaccine instead of unknown
           | chemicals. Then you know what it is and that it's helpful.
        
             | t0bia_s wrote:
             | If you are in clinical trials, then it is not vaccine by
             | definition.
        
           | fithisux wrote:
           | Me too
        
           | mabbo wrote:
           | You don't. You know losers who blame their problems on
           | whatever Fox News told them was bad. What the heck does
           | "unknown chemicals" even mean? You don't know what the
           | chemicals in a fresh-picked Apple are- does that mean you
           | shouldn't eat it until you get a bio-chem degree?
           | 
           | Trust in experts is being purposely eroded by the right so
           | that they can manipulate you into listening to them instead
           | of people who actually know things.
           | 
           | I don't want to get the vaccine just for myself. I want to
           | help test it so that we can assess it's safety, and then get
           | it out publicly fast. I want to see lives saved.
           | 
           | And if I benefit from it, all the better.
        
             | t0bia_s wrote:
             | Your lack of respect for others is astonishing.
             | 
             | Consume wherever you want, just don't be arrogant if others
             | won't.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-11 23:01 UTC)