[HN Gopher] Big cats in urban jungle: LA mountain lions, Mumbai ...
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       Big cats in urban jungle: LA mountain lions, Mumbai leopards
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2022-06-30 10:11 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (phys.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | > Avoidance is the safest strategy, she said. "These big cats are
       | shy--they tend to avoid human contact as much as they can.
       | They're really extreme introverts of the animal kingdom."
       | 
       | There are lots of large predators that "avoid human contact". I
       | think the reason for that is not some intrinsic physical thing,
       | but because humans have historically hunted and killed these
       | large predators. However, as humans stop killing these predators,
       | how long until they lose their fear of humans and see us as prey?
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Many humans could fight a mountain lion and win. There are
         | circumstances when they will attack but in general we're too
         | big to be prey.
        
           | johndhi wrote:
           | ... what?
           | 
           | I don't think so
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Small children can be seen as prey; adult humans are actually
         | quite large as animals go, and standing upright makes them
         | appear even larger [67] - groups make it even more so.
         | 
         | However, encouraging animals to be "scared" of humans is good,
         | because large predators that get used to humans often have to
         | be put down.
         | 
         | [67] https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irl/comments/op4u1q/me_irl/
        
           | nescioquid wrote:
           | Learning to coexist with the animals, as the article
           | mentioned, is probably the best approach.
           | 
           | I once read an article about tiger attacks in India and a
           | brilliant tactic people developed: wearing a mask on the back
           | of the head. Cats are ambush predators and will attack from
           | behind. Apparently having a "face" on the back of your head
           | is a good deterrent against cat attacks.
           | 
           | Growing up near Glacier Park, we were given a great deal of
           | wilderness survival instruction starting in elementary school
           | (this was back in the '70s and '80s). I spent a fair bit of
           | time tramping through the woods alone as a child, making
           | noise so as not to startle the bears as taught. When I did
           | occasionally come upon a bear, it wasn't fussed and continued
           | on doing what it was doing. The odd report of a mauling
           | elicited sympathy but there seemed to be a tacit assumption
           | that the poor fellow screwed up somehow. In all that time, I
           | never so much as caught a glimpse of a cat, though they were
           | surely around.
           | 
           | Predators getting used to humans happens when they come to
           | depend on humans. Glacier Park learned from the "Night of the
           | Grizzly" episode by keeping the bears out of food waste and
           | considering feeding the bears a serious no-no. Animals that
           | were unable or unwilling to return to their normal survival
           | strategies were relocated or put down, though the major
           | change was educating people and changing their behaviors.
           | However, if you've got big cats in your backyard, I imagine
           | that population is already stressed.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
           | But leopards can hunt far larger prey than humans.
           | 
           | From Wikipedia:
           | 
           | > The largest prey killed by a leopard was reportedly a male
           | eland weighing 900 kg (2,000 lb).[92]
           | 
           | > It is able to take large prey due to its powerful jaw
           | muscles, and is therefore strong enough to drag carcasses
           | heavier than itself up into trees; an individual was seen to
           | haul a young giraffe weighing nearly 125 kg (276 lb) up 5.7 m
           | (18 ft 8 in) into a tree
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | They _can_ but it 's relatively abnormal; just like I'm
             | sure someone somewhere has been mauled to death by a
             | housecat.
        
         | dkarl wrote:
         | > how long until they lose their fear of humans and see us as
         | prey?
         | 
         | If you're asking about individuals, it already happens that
         | individual animals target humans for predation. If you're
         | asking about genetic change in populations, it probably won't
         | happen, because we identify and kill the rare individuals that
         | attack humans.
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | I think the reason is adult humans are too large to be easy
         | prey. Yes, they do go after prey that size sometimes but not
         | normally because the cost benefit probably doesn't work out.
        
         | drewcoo wrote:
         | > because humans have historically hunted and killed these
         | large predators
         | 
         | I don't recall any cats in my history classes. Maybe they got
         | their education some other way.
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | Once in a while it happens and people sometimes even have the
         | fortitude to kill the puma with their bare hands. Here's a
         | recent account [1]
         | 
         | I've always lived in areas with big cats that end up wandering
         | into the city or town once in a while. Usually it just ends in
         | a ketamine dart and a bunch of videos on social media. I think
         | I actually hear about a lot more attacks in North America than
         | in Central America for whatever reason. I get the sense that
         | they're actually more of a risk to small children, pets, and
         | livestock.
         | 
         | If you're out hiking what I've heard a few times is that if you
         | smell something that's a lot like a "wet dog" smell in the
         | middle of nowhere then you better get the bear spray in your
         | hand in case you end up on some cat's menu choices.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umBbQvnShaA
        
       | zem wrote:
       | when I was in college in Mumbai (~1995) we had a leopard on
       | campus. was a fairly disconcerting few days before they caught
       | it. (the campus had a lot of wilderness areas so it was easy for
       | it to hide)
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | Was there any serious consideration of tag and release? or when
         | you say "capture" do you mean catch, tag and release?
         | 
         | Ecologically speaking, it might be better to leave a viable cat
         | in place than remove it and make a territory to fight over.
         | This is why feral cats in some cities are chipped, speyed and
         | released (they cut an ear to mark it sterile)
        
       | wcarron wrote:
       | Wow. I'm surprised to learn that over 100 cats were collared
       | around LA. As far as I was aware, there were/are only like 7 or 8
       | lions in the Angeles National Forest. Great to hear that they're
       | significantly more numerous than I'd known.
       | 
       | I spent a lot of time in the ANF while I lived there and never
       | saw one or found a kill and only once found tracks. Anecdata but
       | I feel it supports the assertion that they just plain don't like
       | to be around humans or spend too much time in the 'frontcountry'.
       | Here in AZ, I find tracks regularly.
        
         | tessierashpool wrote:
         | there are exceptions, but typically, if you see a mountain
         | lion, the mountain lion decided to let you see it.
        
       | whartung wrote:
       | I live in an urban area in So Cal near the foothills. Mind, this
       | is not the San Gabriels, which is more chaparral, this is more
       | high desert.
       | 
       | We have some open fields nearby, but we're less than 5 miles from
       | the actual hills themselves.
       | 
       | Less than a month ago we had a bobcat "in" our backyard. By that,
       | I mean we had her running along the top of our cinder block wall.
       | What we actually saw was her litter of kittens. We just saw them
       | running back and forth on the top, we did not see the mother. We
       | saw her later in the afternoon as she came back to round them up.
       | 
       | It was a tense few minutes as the mother waited on the ground for
       | her kittens who were hesitant to drop down from the wall (it's a
       | 6 foot wall). They were clinging to the neighbors gate. We were
       | more worried they'd fall on the inside of the gate into their
       | backyard. They're not home, and the gates are locked. It would
       | have been interesting to see how she would have got them out of
       | there.
       | 
       | But all was well, they dropped on the outside of the gate, and
       | they scurried off. A teachable moment for the children, no doubt.
       | 
       | We've also had coyote's on this wall. There's something
       | inherently creepy about being stared at by a wild animal.
       | 
       | We have to assume that they live in one of the nearby fields.
       | There's a nice 10 acre field that's overgrown with deep grass.
       | Most of the fields have much less cover. But still curious what
       | brought her and her kittens to our house.
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | In the pacific northwest you can find bear families walking
         | around cities and taking a swim in backyard pools.
         | 
         | There is a local mountain called cougar mountain, during the
         | mid 00s housing boom it underwent a lot of development and some
         | of the new locals started complaining to their local government
         | that there were, _gasp_ cougars living at cougar mountain and
         | some residents even requested that the cougars be removed.
         | 
         | From what I understand, such requests were promptly ignored.
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | I used to bicycle a lot before/during dawn hours to get in a
         | workout before work and have seen mountain lions inside the
         | city limits of Cupertino and Palo Alto. Both these cities have
         | significant overlap with or contain nature preserves.
        
       | danans wrote:
       | > A Waghoba temple is seen at Sanjay Gandhi National Park in
       | Mumbai, India, Wednesday, April 6, 2022. Tribals worship Waghoba,
       | a deity in the form of leopards and tigers, in the belief that
       | they protect them and their livestock from evil.
       | 
       | It's always interesting to see concrete religious symbols
       | developing as a result of human beings interactions with nature
       | in this way.
       | 
       | In many ways this doesn't seem so different from the ancient
       | lions of Sumerian reliefs or the various creatures depicted at
       | Gobleki Tepe (the oldest known religious structures).
       | 
       | The sheer honesty of that concrete depiction of human survival
       | plight in a natural environment gets reduced to a shadow of
       | itself in most mainstream religion, whether now or in antiquity.
       | 
       | Tangentially, this particular example of a deity fashioned after
       | a dangerous wildcat is one reason why Hinduism is sometimes
       | described as having thousands of gods. Many of them are just
       | "functional", representing protection against or assistance of
       | specific natural phenomenon, and have little to do with political
       | identity or salvation.
       | 
       | The Hindi inscription above the idol in the photo is even more
       | interesting, translating as: "King of the Jungle, Waghobadev".
       | "Waghobadev" itself translates to something like "tiger/leapord
       | god".
        
       | jeffrallen wrote:
       | The mountain lion warning signs around Silicon Valley are really
       | terrifying. I was always secretly rooting for them, seems useful
       | to occasionally remind chewy humans they are not top of the food
       | chain.
        
       | fourstar wrote:
       | It'd be great if they'd stop putting those huge tracking devices
       | around these mountain lions' necks down in SoCal (and elsewhere).
       | Also, not a fan of banding (UC Berkeley Falcons for example).
       | Extremely traumatizing for the animal.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | > Extremely traumatizing for the animal.
         | 
         | Do you have a citation for this?
        
           | fourstar wrote:
           | Lol. Knock yourself out:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banding+day
           | 
           | I believe they also stopped doing it at the Big Bear eagle
           | nest.
           | 
           | And for mountain lions: https://www.theguardian.com/us-
           | news/2022/feb/13/los-angeles-... no mate yet? Hmm wonder if
           | it could be the huge and unnecessary device strapped around
           | its neck.
        
             | tomjakubowski wrote:
             | Plenty of GPS-collared pumas have found mates. P22 in
             | particular is isolated from potential mates by the freeways
             | surrounding Griffith Park.
             | 
             | https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journa
             | l...
        
             | googlryas wrote:
             | So what you're saying is you don't have a source for this?
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | No offence but you're not going to convince anyone by
             | linking to a YouTube search, of all things.
             | 
             | The Guardian link says absolutely nothing about the collar
             | being traumatizing.
        
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