[HN Gopher] Reincarnating the 6502 Using Flexible TFT Tech for IoT
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       Reincarnating the 6502 Using Flexible TFT Tech for IoT
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-05-09 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fuse.wikichip.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fuse.wikichip.org)
        
       | kken wrote:
       | >The chip achieved a maximum operating speed of 71.4 kHz (at
       | Vdd=3V/Vbias=6V) while consuming a maximum of 134.91 mW.
       | Likewise, the chip can run as low as 10 kHz at 2V while consuming
       | just 11.6 mW.
       | 
       | That's really not that impressive, both in speed and power. You
       | can operate 8Bit MCUs clocked at ~50kHz at 100-200uW.
       | 
       | I wonder what that the technology is good for? IGZO is good for
       | large area electronic with low leakage, so I guess it could be
       | used for sensor arrays and similar where you need distributed
       | circuits. Of course, IGZO is already used for display backplanes.
       | 
       | For digital circuits, silicon will most likely beat it in power
       | and cost even for very small designs.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | It doesn't help that the ag_6502 core they're using is designed
         | to accurately reproduce the behavior of the original part, not
         | to be space- or power-efficient. Results might have been better
         | with a more modern CPU design like SERV
         | (https://github.com/olofk/serv).
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | As pointed out in the article, the 6502 is still widely used in
       | all sorts of embedded devices, but I suspect the 8051 is even
       | more popular. The 6502 has the advantage of somewhat simpler
       | design.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | 8051 has some really nice bit-level instructions. Everything
         | interesting for 6502 is typically on bit 7 because it's so easy
         | to test (BPL/BMI), or more rarely bit 6 which I think can be
         | easily tested with BIT, and you don't have anything like JBC
         | which jumps if a bit is set and clears it.
        
           | tom_ wrote:
           | Rockwell 6502s have bbr/bbs (branch on bit set/reset in a zp
           | address) - I think for use with io ports mapped into zero
           | page (they're not terribly useful otherwise).
        
       | buescher wrote:
       | They implemented their own complete design flow for flexible TFT.
       | That's pretty cool. I'm not so sure there's a real use case for a
       | 70 KHz flex 6502. Is "for IoT" the new "for developing
       | countries", a shorthand for "we don't have a practical or
       | profitable niche for this yet"? Cheap IoT SoCs already have great
       | processors for very competitive prices.
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | It's now possible to make a 6502 out of plastic?!? WOW
       | 
       | Yes, they are making transistors out of plastic[1]. "We coat
       | everything on that, then peel it off and reuse the glass a
       | carriers which means we can use silicon equipment."
       | 
       | That they manage to get this to work at all is amazing. I view
       | this as a technology demonstrator more than anything else. It
       | looks like there's a pent up demand for low end processing that
       | this might fill.
       | 
       | Who knows, maybe Sam Zeloof can use this process in his garage.
       | 8)
       | 
       | 1 - https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/first-300mm-fab-for-the-uk/
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Reminds me of microfiches [0], which sometimes can be seen in
       | movies when people go to a library to read old, archived
       | newspapers.
       | 
       | My dad had a catalog of spare parts from Bosch and a reader, and
       | I loved to spend time with it to look at the diagrams. This was
       | pre-internet days, so this was the way how large catalogs were
       | distributed.
       | 
       | The precision with which they were created was impressive.
       | 
       | These wafers look similar. I wonder how the information density
       | would compare if some of those chips were storage and a couple of
       | them could be used to display the content of the storage.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microform#/media/File:Microfic...
        
       | WhitneyLand wrote:
       | I learned to code machine language on the VIC-20's 6502 when I
       | was 13. I think my parents paid about $200 for the computer.
       | 
       | It was thrilling to learn to make things even with basic, but to
       | do much with graphics or games at the time required direct 6502
       | coding to get decent performance.
       | 
       | Good memories though. So different coding only for joy with no
       | stress or deadlines.
        
       | frozenport wrote:
       | There was always a trade off between flexibility and consistent
       | electronic operation. If you bend the chip too much it stops
       | working. If the chip is too rigid its not interesting.
       | 
       | Would be good if the write up could give some context into the
       | bend-ability of this chip.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-09 23:00 UTC)