[HN Gopher] I thought I'd have accomplished a lot more today and...
___________________________________________________________________
I thought I'd have accomplished a lot more today and also before I
was 35 (2020)
Author : webmaven
Score : 518 points
Date : 2022-04-07 05:51 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| Decabytes wrote:
| I'm currently in a transitory period between moving from a rental
| into a house. I just want the next 3 months to fly by. But I have
| to keep telling myself that if I don't focus on my life in the
| present, then I will effectively just have lost 3 months of my
| life because I've been so focused on what's at the end of it, and
| not what happens in between.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| I'm close to 40 and has never been more confused than before.
| asplake wrote:
| Personally, I've done some of my best work in my 40's and 50's.
| And so different to anything I was capable of doing in my 20's
| and 30's.
|
| The funniest thing is that I chose not only my university degree
| but also my optional modules based on a career choice that I
| moved on from well before I was 30. I don't generally do regrets,
| but older me would tell younger me to relax a bit. There's plenty
| of time and lots of things to try. Be prepared to be surprised!
| dagw wrote:
| Yes. I'm 43 and I'm feeling that I'm only now just hitting my
| stride, career wise, with good idea what I'm actually good at,
| want to do and can contribute. 20-40 was basically floundering
| around, trying things, learning things and working out what I
| wanted to do when I 'grew up'. And looking back, I wouldn't
| want to have had it any other way.
| WJW wrote:
| For sure. When I was 15, I looked back on my 10-year old self
| as someone who didn't know anything but now I had learned a
| lot. When I was 20, I looked back on my 15-year old self as
| someone who knew nothing but now I was an adult. At 25, I
| looked at my 20-year old self in the same way. Repeat for the
| next few steps. I'm now 35, pretty happy with how it is going
| life- and career-wise and I look back on my 30-year old self
| as someone who was starting to get it but was still rather
| young and naive.
|
| Today I feel like a proper adult who does adulty things and
| has life figured out reasonably well, but no doubt 40-year
| old me will think my current self was still pretty young and
| inexperienced.
| benibela wrote:
| On the other hand, now I am 32, and when I look at back at
| my 15-year old self, I just knew everything back then. I am
| only regressing since then in all ways
| edzillion wrote:
| The Best Lack All Conviction While the Worst Are Full of
| Passionate Intensity
| adamsmith143 wrote:
| Maybe in feeling but certainly not literally. A 32 year
| old working in a field is going to know far more than
| their 15 year old counterpart. Of course you may be
| getting into the "I know that I know nothing" regime.
| While your 15 year old self subjectively thought they
| knew everything.
| kilroy123 wrote:
| This gives me hope! I'm mid-thirties and getting older.
| chasd00 wrote:
| It's like the stopping problem or "secretary problem". When
| you have the time ( 20s, 30s) try as many different things as
| you can. In your 40s and 50s narrow and cash in. "cash in"
| doesn't have to mean literal cash but could be a metaphor for
| happiness or contentment.
| dagw wrote:
| I'd never thought of seeing life/career planning as a
| version of the secretary problem, but it makes sense. Cool!
| sAbakumoff wrote:
| I can relate to this sentiment. I recently turned 40 and 2021
| was the most successful year out of the 20 years of career in
| IT, and I feel that's just the beginning.
| a1445c8b wrote:
| > Personally, I've done some of my best work in my 40's and
| 50's.
|
| Reading this makes me feel better about my current trajectory.
| Mid 40s male.
| [deleted]
| antupis wrote:
| I think career peak comes somewhere between 45-60 especially
| when domain is something which needs multiple skills like
| founding company or writing book. https://www.inc.com/jeff-
| haden/a-study-of-27-million-startup...
| martin_a wrote:
| > I don't generally do regrets, but older me would tell younger
| me to relax a bit.
|
| Me now (35) would love to tell that to me (15), too. All the
| grey hairs for nothing.
| mrjangles wrote:
| Yeah but if older you had actually told younger you to relax a
| bit, would you be where you are now talking about how things
| are going well, or would you be like OP in the linked article?
| Sure it is true that opportunities usually never come from the
| places you are searching, but they don't come at all if you
| aren't searching.
| cyberlurker wrote:
| For me, it was about stress. I never did and still have
| trouble enjoying good things in the moment, because I'm
| always thinking about the next thing and how I need to
| prepare for it. Even when it's unnecessary...
|
| Our younger selves would never listen to us now anyway, but
| I'd probably tell my younger self to meditate and be more
| positive. It's free to have a positive attitude and it helps
| a ton.
|
| I'm not sure about others, but I do think I'd be roughly in
| the same spot if I relaxed more. I'm skeptical how much doing
| that extra 1% effort really helped me get further when it
| cost me sleep or joy.
| mjg59 wrote:
| Growing up, the idea of a career in computing was implausible.
| The only computing course my school offered was scheduled against
| doing a full science course, and they had nothing for the 16-18
| range. The local night school programming class I signed up for
| was cancelled because I was the only person who signed up for it.
| My parents made it extremely clear that the idea that I could
| ever make money writing software was unrealistic, which meant I
| was 27 with a PhD in genetics before I jumped ship into software
| full time.
|
| And maybe because of that, I'm pretty ok with things? Every day
| I'm aware that I _could_ do more. I know people who could take
| over my job right now who are 15 years younger than me. And that
| 's ok, because I have achieved so much more than ever seemed
| possible to me as a teenager, and every time I stare out the
| window and realise I'm in San Francisco and part of the industry
| that was so far away when I was growing up I have to take a
| moment to come to terms with the fact that this is actually
| reality.
|
| I know this article is satire, but I also know that many people
| hold themselves against standards that are not realistic. Almost
| none of us have achieved everything that we could be, and that's
| just fine. If you're spending a lot of time troubled by the fact
| that you feel like you're falling short of your potential then
| this is a great time to find a therapist who can help you work
| through that. It's ok to want more than you have, but if you're
| objectively in a basically good place then you really shouldn't
| be constantly aware of that in a negative way. I'm at peace with
| the fact that I'm never going to found the next unicorn company
| or be CEO of Google or even write some software that a lot of
| people care about. Let's be kind to each other and ourselves
| about what we've achieved, rather than holding ourselves to a
| model of what we could theoretically be if literally everything
| had gone our way.
| r0rshrk wrote:
| > I'm at peace with the fact that I'm never going to found the
| next unicorn company or be CEO of Google or even write some
| software that a lot of people care about.
|
| There's nothing that's stopping you from creating that first
| personal project, which other people eventually care about.
| goatherders wrote:
| I recognize that this is largely a tech forum, but I find it
| interesting that you choose being a founder or CEO of Google as
| your benchmarks as opposed to walking on the moon, curing
| cancer, or something else. Not a critique, just an observation.
| erwincoumans wrote:
| Walking on the moon (or Mars) likely gets boring very soon.
|
| The experiences as a CEO of a large company seem much more
| interesting, and you get to hire a team of experts working on
| those cures (or whatever floats your Boaty McBoatface).
| mjg59 wrote:
| Having spent time in biology, being CEO of Google is a _way_
| more realistic goal than curing cancer. As far as the moon, I
| grew up on Star Trek and the idea of spending my life in
| space and seeing new things was absolutely what I wanted. But
| once I found that Earth contained a lot of utterly
| fascinating people, being able to meet them mattered more to
| me than spending a shitload of time getting as far away from
| them as possible to do a fairly small amount of rock
| collection - I 'm going to be exposed to more new ideas
| staying here than I am up there.
|
| But it's a fair point! Our aspirational goals are influenced
| by what we believe is possible, and that's amazingly
| contextual. What we're lead to believe is possible changes
| what we believe should be possible for us, and that changes
| the standards we set for ourselves.
| kashyapc wrote:
| Hi, Matthew!
|
| I've always found your technical talks, blog write-ups, and
| mailing list posts to be interesting and educating. And thank
| you for all the work you did, and do, in the various FOSS
| communities -- that's already a significant impact for the
| better.
|
| PS: It was a pleasure to interact with you at a few Linux
| Foundation events. I still remember the Edinburgh speaker event
| (2018, IIRC) where you've regaled us with some interesting
| "security incident" stories :-).
| chouxbuns wrote:
| Thank you for sharing - 100% agree.
|
| I always try to keep this Alan Watts quote in mind: "The
| meaning of life is just to be alive. It is so plain and so
| obvious and so simple. And yet, everybody rushes around in a
| great panic as if it were necessary to achieve something beyond
| themselves."
| justsomebody1 wrote:
| This is an exceptionally kind take. Thank you!
| mjg59 wrote:
| That means a lot, thank you!
| jll29 wrote:
| What you say is true, yet we should aspire high standards, so
| that we can find out what we are able to achieve.
|
| If you set your bar too low, you will never surprise yourself
| with doing what your previous self deemed impossible, but what
| your current self managed to do.
|
| Most people I meet can do a lot more, by my assessment, than
| they think they are capable of. Their own thinking then hinders
| them from trying, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
|
| The trick is to keep a positive-curious attitude about it
| "let's see if I can" rather than obsessing about others and
| comparing. Comparing is superficial (people who want to boast
| do it a lot), and never apples-to-apples, as no-one has the
| same starting point (parent connections, wealth, genetic
| disposition/talent etc.).
| sirspacey wrote:
| I love "positive-curious" it's amazing state to be in &
| inspire others to take. I enjoy helping people develop into
| their full potential!
|
| I too used to think setting a high bar was the way to get
| there. Maybe at the start it is.
|
| But then, when I consistently reached beyond what I was
| capable of, the cost of downfall became overwhelming. After
| years of that, I couldn't get back up again.
|
| Then I asked a new question:
|
| What if I let go of "should?"
|
| The justifications for taking action were masking something
| very beautiful.
|
| When the "should" is gone, what's left is intrinsic
| motivation.
|
| Turns out I'm curious & love trying new things. I also
| attract people like that & enjoy hanging out with them.
|
| Now I'm doing the most impactful work of my life, but with
| much less pressure on myself.
|
| Sometimes I worry about all the things I didn't do that I
| thought I would. Rather than turn that into "I'll get back on
| track" I simply acknowledge that I'm feeling sad &
| experiencing some fear about the meaning of my life.
|
| The gift I get in return:
|
| I can be open with my team that I feel afraid, breath, and
| refocus on enjoying the day.
| mjg59 wrote:
| Aspiring to overly high standards risks viewing yourself as a
| failure. There's an extent to which being ambitious drives
| you to achieve more, but there's also an extent to which it
| just leaves you feeling depressed about your failures and
| achieving less as a result. I don't think it's possible for
| anyone to calibrate that level without help from others who
| can provide a neutral perspective.
| diob wrote:
| While I agree that folks tend to doubt themselves and it
| holds them back, I would caution against holding that against
| them though (I know you didn't say it explicitly, but it
| feels that way when you say "their own thinking").
|
| Folks, like you say, come from a wide variety of backgrounds
| and experiences. Those who you think could do more, likely
| have experienced some "reason" behind their current situation
| or achievements (trauma, immediate concerns of taking care of
| family, etc).
|
| And so, unfortunately, not everyone has the ability or
| opportunity to adopt a positive-curious attitude. I will say
| that such an attitude does tend to arise when coming from a
| safe / secure background (loving parents, a safety net,
| etc.). It can arise without those things, but no guarantees
| either way I suppose.
|
| I'm getting to the point where I can myself, but it's been a
| struggle of getting to the point of feeling safe financially.
| My own situation is unique, no familial support (more the
| opposite truly), a need to provide enough for myself (I have
| chronic conditions). And thus while I'd like to "achieve", I
| must balance that with "survive". One day I'd like to do
| more, and I believe I'll get there. Fingers crossed.
| chasd00 wrote:
| > this is a great time to find a therapist who can help you
| work through that
|
| this is probably the best advice i've read so far. Think about
| how, when faced with a hard technical problem, an SME is a
| treasure trove of answers. A good therapist is an SME in this
| problem space.
| [deleted]
| cik wrote:
| There's something cross cultural here that just doesn't cross. I
| can't relate. I'm responsible for me - my success, my failures. I
| also sure as hell better check on my neighbour and lend a hand.
|
| Fulfilment comes from within, not externally. Results driven
| fulfilment comes from the gradual achievement of small goals,
| slowly combining into larger goals. They can be as small, as
| simple as reading a book.
|
| The best advice I was ever given was 'finish what you start'.
| Rather than skim articles in newspapers, I forced myself to read
| (awful) articles from the beginning to end. Eventually that
| morphed, and I now make choices on when to skim, what to leave
| behind - what's a sunk cost fallacy and what isn't. But the point
| was to break the pattern, to achieve small things, and build on
| them.
|
| I take the same approach with my kids. Get a win, then get
| another win.
| apples_oranges wrote:
| I also like that approach, but I get sidetracked. For example I
| have to wait for a CI build to finish, or for the compiler..
| then I come here.. and write comments..
| icoder wrote:
| I worked on a lab, wait times < 1 minute were the worst, too
| long to actively wait, too little to go do something else.
| Now back in dev work it's even worse, because there's too
| many opportunities where you 'think' you can bridge that
| time, but you get lost way too easily.
|
| What somewhat worked for me was time tracking based on my
| screen's focus (I use Timing for Mac, timingapp.com, no
| affiliation whatsoever). If anything it makes me aware, but
| since I use it for billing my hours, there's an incentive to
| minimise it to keep the day (at least somewhat) short.
|
| Today's for working on my own stuff, so no tracking, hence me
| falling for the same traps again, and writing this comment.
| Probably should do it on a day like today as well.
| [deleted]
| pmoriarty wrote:
| _" I'm responsible for me - my success, my failures...
| Fulfilment comes from within, not externally."_
|
| What's external and what's internal?
|
| Where do your desires come from? Your hopes?
|
| Some people think they are the masters of their mind, that what
| they feel come from them, but what about the influence of their
| parents, their friends, the movies they watch, the books they
| read, advertising, music, social media?
|
| We swim in a cultural ocean where things that seem on the
| inside might have actually come from the outside.
|
| That's if there's even an actual distinction between inside and
| outside in the first place.
|
| _" Get a win, then get another win."_
|
| Is winning the point? What if someone doesn't care about
| winning?
| refurb wrote:
| _What 's external and what's internal?_
|
| Fulfillment certainly isn't external. It's entirely generated
| internally.
| arethuza wrote:
| I'm in my 50s and I like to think I've had a reasonable
| career so far.
|
| However, by far the most fulfilling thing I've done for a
| long long time is helping out in a foodbank in a nearby town.
|
| So my biggest regret at the moment is actually realising
| that, at least for me, helping other people actually can be
| rather more fulfilling than achieving purely personal goals -
| I wish I'd realised this sooner.
| jkhdigital wrote:
| Yup. I am a sober alcoholic and the most meaningful
| experience in my life--by a country mile--is sponsoring
| another alcoholic young man and watching him transform into
| a responsible, capable adult.
| codr7 wrote:
| I suspect the urge to feel needed, to be appreciated and
| the satisfaction from really helping other people is pretty
| much universal.
|
| But it's discouraged at every turn from the top; and
| replaced with shiny things, power and competition.
| arethuza wrote:
| I guess that's one advantage of age - the lure of shiny
| things has long since worn off for me. And I've been fond
| of expensive cars, watches, cameras, ski gear etc. as
| anyone...
| creamynebula wrote:
| You realised it just in time!
| webmobdev wrote:
| It's true that sometimes we find something fulfilling late
| in life. But we should also factor that our mind (and thus
| perspective) biologically change as we age. So what you
| find fulfilling now at 50 may not be something you may have
| enjoyed in your 20's or 30's. I remember as a teenager I
| used to consider kids below 10 dumb pain-in-the-asses.
| Today, as an adult, I mostly enjoy interacting with them
| and find their perspective and curiosity really
| interesting.
| tomalpha wrote:
| "Get a win, then get another win."
|
| Not OP but I interpret "win" in this context to mean
| something more like "success" and not strictly about winning
| or beating someone else.
|
| It's certainly a turn of phrase that I've heard used in that
| context a fair amount.
| andybp85 wrote:
| My thoughts exactly. I just told people I had a major win
| this week by getting a buddy of mine who started as an
| intern at my last job a full-time software engineer
| position at my current company (big pay jump & next step in
| his career + he's extremely talented and will be a huge
| asset for us). If our friend here takes the same approach
| with their kids, one I think can infer they're including
| cases like this.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _What 's external and what's internal? Where do your
| desires come from? Your hopes? Some people think they are the
| masters of their mind, that what they feel come from them,
| but what about the influence of their parents, their friends,
| the movies they watch, the books they read, advertising,
| music, social media?_
|
| How about thinking about it with common sense, as opposed to
| trying to find some perfect rational answer that squares the
| circle?
|
| There will always be external influences, but we still call
| most of them "internal" if they gently shaped who we are, as
| opposed to us chasing after them like junkies and getting
| overwhelmed by propaganda (ads, unattenable images of
| success/body/status in the media, unhealthy peer pressure,
| and so on), or beating us to submission to them (e.g. like
| parents insisting on instilling their own youthful dreams or
| desires of becoming X or Y to a kid).
|
| Especially if we mostly care for the trappings (being Elon
| Musk rich, and having Elon Musk lifestyle), and not the
| process (making stuff).
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| 'How about thinking about it with common sense'
|
| Common sence is a mythl
|
| Thoughts think themselves, you are an empty vessel and they
| arrive in your mind by magic, and you have no real idea
| where they come from. All you do is react to them in one
| way or the other
| refurb wrote:
| This is the core of cognitive behavioral therapy.
|
| Your thoughts don't come out of nowhere. They are based
| on your own set of beliefs, usually shaped by
| experiences.
|
| Change your beliefs and you can change your thoughts.
| protontorpedo wrote:
| But you're right! All our truths were invented by someone
| else(s), down to the language we use to write these
| replies.
| coldtea wrote:
| Yes, the above approach is exactly what I advocate we
| should avoid.
|
| "you are an empty vessel and they arrive in your mind by
| magic"
|
| Whatever:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis
| mjburgess wrote:
| "within" means values which you can hold _against_ those of
| your immediate local environment; "external" means being
| driven by your immediate local environment.
|
| As in, if you chase situations in which your local
| environment is full of applause, then you're only going to be
| satisfied when you're in those environments. If you chase
| situations in which you are, eg., finish some project in some
| area of interest, then you can be satisfied with "resources
| more your own".
| Majestic121 wrote:
| "What's external and what's internal?"
|
| > 1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in
| our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a
| word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control
| are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word,
| whatever are not our own actions.
|
| http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
|
| Does it matter where our desires and hope come from at the
| very beginning ? We have thousands of divergent influences
| pushing us everyday. The ones we choose to go with come from
| within, they come from you, probably ingrained and influenced
| by your environment, but the only thing that matters is that
| you take them as yours.
|
| Regarding "Is winning the point? What if someone doesn't care
| about winning? ", winning here has a wider meaning than the
| small 'winning a game' meaning, it means succeed at what you
| set yourself to.
|
| You're of course free not to set goals to your own life, but
| doing so has long been found to be one of the best way to
| find happiness and meaning (it's the conclusion for Candid of
| Voltaire for example, but there's much more). If you're
| interested in the matter, I can recommend "Man's search for
| meaning" from Viktor Frankl
| chousuke wrote:
| Are people's desires and aversions really something they
| can control? The thought feels alien to me. It's very
| difficult for me to even tell what I really want, let alone
| intentionally channel effort towards achieving any such
| thing.
|
| The largest obstacles I face when it comes to achieving
| things is really that the things I want to do and the
| things I feel motivated to do are very rarely the same.
| Often I am extremely motivated to do things that I really
| don't want to be doing; I can spend hours fixated on
| something irrelevant and afterwards feel exhausted and
| annoyed because I really would rather have done something
| else, but my brain disagreed.
| LeftHandPath wrote:
| I think I need to take up this practice. I've largely given up
| multitasking and this seems like a good next step on the way to
| healthier life and higher productivity.
| xvector wrote:
| > Fulfilment comes from within, not externally.
|
| I am 26 and this is has been the hardest thing for me to come
| to terms with over the past few years.
|
| I thought I'd be happier with a high paying job. So I got a job
| that pays at the 99.9th percentile for my age. Didn't really
| make me happier. Then I thought my unhappiness was because of
| my weight. So I lost 90lbs. Hardest thing I've ever done. But
| it didn't make me happy. Today a voice in my head is telling me
| "you'll be happier if you get muscular," "you'll be happier if
| you get in a relationship." I plan to do all of those things,
| but I realize they probably won't make me happy.
|
| What _has_ helped somewhat with fulfillment was placing a
| fundamentally greater value on myself. Reflecting on my
| accomplishments has made this a bit easier. And I do value
| myself a lot more today than I did two years ago - my
| confidence is higher, even if not as high I hoped it would
| be...
|
| I can't help but feel a bit lost. My accomplishments did not
| provide me the concrete, grounding, pervading feeling of
| achievement I hoped they would find. I wasn't happy after them.
| Instead, there was... nothing, and now I feel like I'm kind of
| just floating without direction when it comes to "finding
| happiness."
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I mean... it didn't make you happier, but it's better to be
| unhappy and rich than unhappy and poor, or obese, or
| physically weak. Single / in a relationship can be hit and
| miss though; it could work, but it might make things worse.
| Don't settle for anyone / anything.
|
| That said, having a relationship helped me out of my funk,
| which was not dissimilar to yours. I - and my girlfriend -
| are now more content with mediocrity.
| goodpoint wrote:
| [I am not a psychologist] but it seems you described the
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
| caffeine wrote:
| Two things to think about:
|
| 1. Maybe steady-state "feeling happiness" isn't a good goal?
| Like, so what if you "feel happy?" If that's all you want,
| opiates are widely available.
|
| Maybe a better set of goals would be "peak satisfaction"
| combined with tangible external outcomes that you consider
| worthwhile.
|
| 2. The accomplishments you have listed are mostly about
| yourself. They feel empty now because you have basically got
| yourself under control. What can you improve in the world
| outside yourself? Can you improve the company where you work?
| Or your family in some tangible way?
|
| I'll give you one small example:
|
| My cousin and his wife had failed two expensive rounds of IVF
| already, and they are comfortable but not in high paying
| jobs. They were struggling to afford another round. They had
| asked the family for help with a go fund me but didn't come
| close to what was needed.
|
| I had just gotten a bonus, and the total amount needed
| (several $K) was an amount I could well afford so I just sent
| it to them. I didn't make it a big deal, and made sure they
| understood they owe me nothing.
|
| To this day, I get a warm glow of satisfaction when I see my
| niece or they send pictures.
|
| Way more than what I get from checking my bank account or
| reflecting on other "self" accomplishments.
| neebz wrote:
| awesome. thanks for sharing.
| bloqs wrote:
| The pursuit of happiness specifically is pointless, and
| vague. What you need is meaning. Meaningful pursuit is
| something that you truly, deeply believe in doing because it
| will make the world better, both for you, and everyone in it.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| I believe you mistook the path for the goal, or the future
| for the now, if you want.
|
| Exercise will make you happy, but only while you're doing it.
| Getting a raise will make you happy, but only for a short
| time period after that raise. "Having" a relationship won't
| make you that happy, but the process of building the
| relationship is highly enjoyable.
|
| The key to happiness is to do those things that make you
| happy while you do them. Sacrificing your personal now for a
| better future is one of those church ideals that always
| struck me as weird. That said, if you work on making the
| planet better, that work will probably also make you happy as
| long as you keep doing it. But the "better planet" itself is
| too abstract to make you happy long-term.
| bigblind wrote:
| > Sacrificing your personal now for a better future is one
| of those church ideals that always struck me as weird.
|
| I think in certain ways they're valid, but more for
| creating circumstances that will allow you to do fulfilling
| things in the future. Taking care of your body now to avoid
| health issues in the future, saving now so you don't have
| to worry about money in the future.
|
| I guess a common baseline requirement for happiness is a
| sense of freedom. A healthy body gives you freedom to move
| (move in the broadest sense of the word, meaning also
| mobility, being able to pick something up from the floor
| without too many aches and pains), some financial backing
| means you're not constantly worrying about where your next
| meal comes from, so you're free to think about other
| things.
| caffeine wrote:
| < Exercise will make you happy, but only while you're doing
| it. Getting a raise will make you happy, but only for a
| short time period after that raise. "Having" a relationship
| won't make you that happy, but the process of building the
| relationship is highly enjoyable.
|
| Hey, thank you for crystallising such a fundamental and
| valuable piece of wisdom so neatly.
| gardaani wrote:
| _> The key to happiness is to do those things that make you
| happy while you do them._
|
| Exactly. It's not about reaching the destination. It's
| about enjoying the journey.
| SnowHill9902 wrote:
| If you want to be happy you'll never be happy.
| yoshyosh wrote:
| Highly recommend checking out the Wheel of Life[1], to help
| you understand the different areas that contribute to
| happiness, it's never just one thing. Writing down what you
| think will get an area to a 10, envisioning it, then seeing
| if you feel that would feel like a 10 is a great way to
| uncover where you may be overthinking what gets you there
| before doing all that work.
|
| Gratitude should also help with each area that you feel is
| fulfilled, otherwise you just never have enough
|
| [1] https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newHTE_93.htm
| nnoitra wrote:
| I so wish it was as simple as this. Unfortunately limited time
| means that doing something implies not doing something else.
|
| Time is the bottleneck and not motivation or whatever. It's
| finite and we run out of it before we even realize it pursuing
| ephemeral things.
| math-dev wrote:
| Finish what you start is such a great philosophy - I am trying
| my best to do that too.
| SnowHill9902 wrote:
| You are not required to finish what you start but you are
| neither free to abandon it.
| dhzhzjsbevs wrote:
| That hasn't worked well for me. I'm too busy starting new
| things.
|
| On the other hand, while I've got a lot on the go, I do
| eventually finish things, so winning I guess?
| SMAAART wrote:
| If most people feel this way, does it mean that it's "normal" to
| feel this way?
|
| I torment myself with similar thinking.
|
| 1. Objectively speaking I have achieved a lot in my life, from
| where I started to where I am now, I am living the American
| dream, and then some.
|
| 2. I KNOW that I have a lot of unfulfilled potential. No, it's
| not the sugar-coated way to say that I am a loser, my "problem"
| is non-crippling anxiety: while I seem to be perfectly
| functioning on society, I procrastinate A LOT, and I suffer fro
| "failure-to-launch" syndrome.
|
| I am getting better but not better enough.
|
| Case in point this morning I was thinking about starting my own
| "100 days of rejection therapy" in order to improve. The kicker?
| When Jia Jang's TED talk came out in 2017 I told myself I was
| gong to do it. Today, 5 yers later, I am still thinking about it,
| and NOT doing it. FML.
|
| Steven Pressfield calls it "Resistance", I call it Anxiety.
| Regardless, I can't help but wonder if:
|
| 1. The economy must lose trillions of dollars in loss
| productivity and loss opportunity due to resistance/anxiety
|
| 2. Is there a business to be made addressing this problem. It is
| a problem, but how to address it and monetize it?
| cheeko1234 wrote:
| I think people that were told that they were special and that
| they'd amount to something great as children are the ones that
| suffer most from this mentality.
|
| The expectation of performance was artificially inflated which
| leads to difficulty dealing with failure and constant feelings
| of dissatisfaction.
| SMAAART wrote:
| Maybe. I have mixed feelings about your statement.
|
| Growing up the messages to me were quite the opposite
| (without going into details), and now here I am, fully grown
| adult, full of doubt, uncertainties, fears, full of Anxieties
| that prevent me from achieving my full potential.
|
| I guess your overall principal is correct, we all know people
| that fit your statement; at the same time individual
| experiences and reactions to those experience are also big
| contributors to outcomes.
| pizzaknife wrote:
| rang a classic age milestone bell this year (within last 12mo)
| and the internal dialogue has given much cpu cycles to "personal
| fulfillment" and what that means. The author of the article
| spends the majority of their time comparing themselves to
| others(a very narrow band of humanity at that) and as such
| derives guilt shame and regret. Ive found that comparing oneself
| to another is a core behavior of fostering personal discontent.
| Its a behavior weve trained for since we began being social
| beings so its a very hard thing to conciously negotiate. I try my
| best to be reasonable about when and how i need to "compete" and
| when i do not. Getting over my ego (work in progress) has lead me
| to discover very much of my waking awareness does not need to
| approached as competition (either directly or as a general
| underpinning). this realize, each and everytime, is freeing and,
| as the bumpersticker admonishes: bark less and wag more. Note -
| spelling and grammar in loose internet bb post sqaurely does not
| meet "competitive" litmus (my performance certainly wouldnt win
| any medals had it qualified anyway)
| worik wrote:
| That was humour?
| powersnail wrote:
| My disillusionment is not on a personal level, but rather, on a
| societal level. I thought that I would become successful enough
| to, well, make a lot of differences in how the society works. Now
| being an actual part of the society, I don't see how I could
| accomplish any of my childhood ambitions. Even if I'm 20x richer,
| with a much higher social status, they are beyond me.
|
| I suppose that the younger version of me have gone too far in
| pride, and too little in understanding. Which I've made peace
| with. But a lingering consequence is that I really don't know
| what to aim for anymore, not inspired by any visions, not
| particularly excitable. From a day-to-day point of view, I settle
| for being helpful to my fellow human beings. On a grand scale,
| though, I'm quite lost.
| qsdf38100 wrote:
| Yeah, not much you can do on a grand scale unless you devote
| you career/life to it I guess. Due to recent events/war I
| wanted to do something, not sure what, as I realized I've been
| focused on my own little life for too long. Except I see
| there's not much I can do, as you said, except talking with
| family and friends. It feels like the boat is slowly sinking,
| nobody really cares, and there's nothing I can do about it.
| meatsauce wrote:
| I said I was going to be a millionaire by the time I hit 30.
|
| Turns out, you have to work for it.
| layer8 wrote:
| High inflation also helps.
| [deleted]
| jotm wrote:
| Oh hey, it's ADD/ADHD/laziness/whatever the fuck you want to call
| it. Goes great with (or causes) anxiety and depression.
|
| "Daily humor", yeah very funny, haha. Except when you live it.
|
| If you're thinking "well, that's normal for a lot of people",
| yeah so was unable to see without glasses or dying from a burst
| appendix, lack of insulin or just bad food. Some people have it
| mild and get by, but for some, it's hell on Earth.
|
| More healthcare pros need to recognize it's a problem, recognize
| it's fixable and fix it.
| codr7 wrote:
| If you want to hear God laugh, tell him about your plans...
| psychoslave wrote:
| Today I woke up, took paper-and-pencil, and wrote a poem about
| taking time for oneself, as some kind of gratefulness for being
| able to enjoy self-awareness. A bit later I red it to my
| daughter, and she replied with a poetry learned at preschool
| (she's 5).
|
| Now, what I didn't make was to work on some of these digital
| projects I have, or looking for some new career opportunities.
| And part of me was a bit upset for this, to be transparent.
| Reading this article though, sent me back to the words of my
| little derisory poem, and recalled me how the most rewarding
| things can come from the tiniest endeavours.
| andrewallbright wrote:
| This hits too close for comfort. I'm 31 now (oh my god). If I
| want to do the things I want to do, I just need to start doing
| them.
| Tr3nton wrote:
| Awesome, more navel-gazing demoralization from corporate
| communists in New York City.
| mouzogu wrote:
| my idea of success, in order:
|
| 1. financial independence (enough passive income not to work if i
| prefer)
|
| 2. own my own home (large enough to grow a family)
|
| 3. have a family
|
| In my mid 30s, pretty much given up on 3 and 2, as 3 depends on
| 2.
|
| So I am just left with 1 to aim for.
| Volrath89 wrote:
| I don't know where do you live but it's definitely not
| necessary to own a home for having a family. Assuming you are a
| male, just having a stable job and actually wanting to have a
| family gives you a great chance of success with many, many
| women.
|
| Also mid 30s is so young, you still have at least a decade to
| find a significant other and build a family if that's what you
| want.
| mouzogu wrote:
| it's not so much about success with women, it's about having
| secure home and finances such that i don't have to worry
| about the future.
|
| getting married, having kids, i could do it now, but i would
| be living as a renter, dependent on my job. i would not be
| able to sleep at night.
|
| i feel like my parents generation at least had the safety net
| of social welfare, but that is no longer there.
| hef19898 wrote:
| No. 1 can be solved by adopting a conservative life style,
| ideally two "steps" below what your current income would permit
| you.
|
| 2. and 3. are totally independent from each other, both are
| made easier by No. 1 so.
|
| Just a general advice, if I may dare, stop putting those things
| in order, relax and let some things in live just happen. And
| enjoy the journey as much as possible.
|
| Obviously, that advice only works if you are living in a stable
| environment. If you don't priorities are going to be topped by,
| worst case, living to see the next day.
| 2000UltraDeluxe wrote:
| That's unreasonable expectations for most, to be honest. I
| don't know if it's just because it's the HN bubble where
| everyone seems to be a USD millionaire and run their own
| successful startups, or if it's a general thing enabled by
| modern media trends (or something else entirely).
|
| Regardless, it's perfectly possible to succeed at having a
| happy and fulfilling life without being financially
| independent. #2 can be achieved if one moves out of the more
| attractive areas where housing is often far cheaper than in the
| more hip areas. It may have consequences like an increased
| commute, or a lower salary, but again, having enough money to
| never having work isn't going to happen for most of us.
| lost_soul wrote:
| Being a COBOL programmer is starting to look pretty good.
| stevenhubertron wrote:
| I turn 40 tomorrow and can't help but think how I got my dad over
| the hill gifts when he turned 40 and thought he was so old. While
| I have accomplished most I have wanted to do 2 things have still
| alluded me.
| dcist wrote:
| What are the 2 things?
| p0d wrote:
| I read a two thousand year old book this morning that said we
| shouldn't measure our life by our wealth.
|
| I just watched the news article about the dinosaur, extinction
| event, find.
|
| And still, many will make wealth their goal and waste their time
| pursuing success. I wasted enough headspace on it myself. Work
| hard, be grateful for what you have, enjoy what you have while
| you have the health.
| orionblastar wrote:
| Me too. I got mentally ill in 2001 and got burned out. I found
| out the hard way when you are the best most efficient worker they
| assign you tasks that other people can't or won't do. The stress
| builds up from the extra work and burnout happens.
|
| I am 53, I should be a manager or CEO by now, but I am disabled
| and out of work instead. Learning all over at home with new
| technologies and languages like Python and Dart/Flutter.
| cbg0 wrote:
| > I am 53, I should be a manager or CEO by now
|
| _Some_ people your age are managers or CEOs but most people
| are not, and there 's nothing wrong with that. If that is your
| goal, keep pushing towards it in spite of your issues, but you
| should also consider focusing less on career and more on just
| enjoying life.
| rkagerer wrote:
| Sorry to hear that!
|
| Folks like you who are passionate and have an innate strong
| work ethic are worth their weight in gold, and need to be
| nurtured and protected from burnout by their managers and
| peers.
|
| I've been on both sides of this equation. As a consultant with
| my own business I've done stints of 80+ hour work weeks,
| wrestled RSI and flirted with the edge of burnout. I've also
| managed teams with superstars sprinkled in who take on visceral
| ownership of a project, working to the goal not the clock and
| doing whatever needs to be done to achieve success. Some here
| will criticize that as an artifact of poor management /
| corporate culture, but in my experience different people have
| different priorities in life and some come with a very strong
| professional drive and crave the opportunity to outperform.
| There's an incredible multiplier effect that can raise the
| productivity of the whole team. But if they're
| underappreciated, taken for granted, or blindly loaded up with
| ever-increasing responsibilities as you described it's
| disastrous. I liken it to using a rare, hand-crafted sports car
| to haul manure then leaving it out in the rain to rust.
|
| I've learned how crucial it is to stay keyed in to the pulse of
| your team. Communication is key (simple questions like "How's
| your workload?", and paying attention if someone who's usually
| cheerful seems agitated or irritable). At times I've had to
| force reports to take a few days off in between cycles to
| regenerate and make sure they stay fresh.
|
| Have also spent some years volunteering in emergency services,
| and watching ordinary humans placed in high-pressure situations
| you gain an appreciation for mental health and not being
| cavalier about it.
|
| I hope your activities playing with those new technologies you
| mentioned rekindles that spark of wonder which first led you
| into tech, and you land a career with an employer who knows how
| to take care of their people. Look forward not back, you've
| still got years of professional opportunity ahead of you if
| that's where your desires lay.
| alkaloid wrote:
| This is why my wife and I had eight children.
|
| We realized early that there is no other meaning of life, and no
| other more important legacy, than being surrounded by family when
| we die.
|
| Thankfully, we're in good company now that Elon Musk has gone
| public with a similar idea in perpetuation of the species.
| dhairya wrote:
| I like to joke I have type B personality with type A ambitions
| which is the recipe for perpetual unhappiness. When the switch is
| on, things move quickly, but its been getting harder and harder
| to find the switch. I'm in early soon to be mid-30s and I've been
| trying to figure out if having grand ambitions is still necessary
| to overcome inertia or is it something else.
| cl42 wrote:
| The young man, who does not know the future, sees life as a kind
| of epic adventure, an Odyssey through strange seas and unknown
| islands, where he will test and prove his powers, and thereby
| discover his immortality.
|
| The man of middle years, who has lived the future that he once
| dreamed, sees life as a tragedy; for he has learned that his
| power, however great, will not prevail against those forces of
| accident and nature to which he gives the names of gods, and has
| learned that he is mortal.
|
| But the man of age, if he plays his assigned role properly, must
| see life as a comedy. For his triumphs and his failures merge,
| and one is no more the occasion for pride or shame than the
| other; and he is neither the hero who proves himself against
| those forces, nor the protagonist who is destroyed by them.
|
| - John Williams in Augustus
| moviewise wrote:
| > But the man of age, if he plays his assigned role properly,
| must see life as a comedy
|
| I think this is the secret to living well. Find the humor, find
| the positives, be jolly even in difficult circumstances because
| life is short, so why not laugh as much as possible?
| https://moviewise.substack.com/p/facing-lifes-difficulties
| volume wrote:
| in poker tournaments the winner (and all the other loser) can't
| win (lose) without the collective choices of all other
| opponents.
| teamtestbot wrote:
| Man, I feel like I skipped those Middle Years and went straight
| to living my life one meme at a time after college.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| All of 4chan did. It seems optimal for most people.
| gunfighthacksaw wrote:
| Reality does surprise me now and then by reifying a meme I
| laughed at a few years ago. Usually the physical
| manifestation is less funny than the original meme though.
|
| I think it was all related to the 2016 US election which is
| when those 4chan chaos magicians joined forces to elect
| 'orange Pepe bad' to troll normies.
| [deleted]
| roci-ceres wrote:
| how would one go about skipping directly to the thrid?
| kirsebaer wrote:
| You can experience heroic drama, tragedy, and comedy all at
| the same time or all within the same day. Just look for them
| as they happen. Or think back to what you did yesterday and
| interpret what you did from the perspective of each of these
| stages.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Why would you want to skip? To prove your power :)? A bit of
| irony
| maxFlow wrote:
| Should you? Can you?
|
| Ah, the sudden school vs the gradual school. The debate
| lingers (see siblings).
| cl42 wrote:
| Unfortunately, I don't think you can. I think each phase
| builds on the prior one; the life experience informing the
| emotions you feel.
|
| The tragic phase is a result of not living up to the
| unrealistic expectations one has, and the comedic phase is a
| result of dealing with those tragic emotions.
| theguru2323 wrote:
| Maybe you are closer to it than you realise. I don't think
| there are age limits to any of this stuff. A decade of life
| for one man, is but a Tuesday of another.
| Sevii wrote:
| You can't skip to wisdom.
| nradov wrote:
| Sure you can. Learn from people wiser than yourself. A lot
| of them have written books.
| robbedpeter wrote:
| And there's always Tony Robbins, Jordan Peterson, and a
| wealth of other self-help types. Picking any system is
| better than nothing, and gives you context for selecting
| good ones once you're familiar. Coast on other people's
| wisdom until you earn your own.
| dgfitz wrote:
| I would hesitate to endorse Robbins. He's had a litany of
| sexual abuse claims against him, among other legal
| problems
| shard wrote:
| I despair at the modern trope of dismissing something of
| worth due to a person's thoughts/actions in an unrelated
| area (in modern parlance, "cancelling" someone). It seems
| like an ad hominem attack to me. How will this trend
| evolve in the future? Will the works of people like
| Beethoven, da Vinci, Einstein be cancelled due to them
| being meat eaters? (Substitute someone of equal stature
| if the people listed are actually vegetarians)
| solveit wrote:
| Life wisdom _would_ seem to be an area where you should
| be wary of following advice from serial sex abusers... (I
| know nothing of Robbins, I just wanted to discuss the
| general heuristic).
| mathematicaster wrote:
| Just do it (tm).
| verisimilidude wrote:
| Serious personal tragedy can compress the middle phase into a
| very short period of time. Comedy is born where hope dies.
| Devastating disease or injury, a long jail sentence, a
| ruinous lawsuit, living through a war, etc. Most of the quick
| routes to lifelong wisdom are not desirable.
| xtracto wrote:
| For me it came not long ago (just starting my 40s): A film
| I was just watching had a great quote: "The universe isn't
| evil but it sure has a nasty sense of humour: I found the
| person I should am meant to be with, but I can't be with
| her"
|
| Something vaguely similar happened to me: I suffered from a
| very strong cronic IBS-C for 20 years, since my University
| time. Around January 2022, I _found_ a real cure for this
| 20 year long ailment (a very specific probiotic strain). I
| spent a couple of weeks really living amazingly, as I haven
| 't lived _in 20 years_.
|
| Then, on February I got the Astra Zeneca booster COVID
| vaccine, and as a result, I got long COVID symptoms and a
| stroke (Transient ischemic attack), and now I'm on aspirin
| for the rest of my life, and feeling like shit.
|
| Aaah the universe has a nasty sense of humor indeed.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Skipping directly just makes you a clown.
| Spivakov wrote:
| Second on John Williams quotes as his novels were my favorite.
|
| I just want to mention that in Williams original narratives he
| is far from being sarcastic/playing wits or suggesting life
| meaninglessness. Instead, it is in the sense of indifference
| (neither positive nor negative).
|
| If you plan to read his novels, I suggest reading both Stoner
| and Augustus and explore their interlacing
| narrator wrote:
| We are very rarely the main character in the various stories
| that would get written about the time we are alive by an
| omniscient narrator. Most of our lives are much too boring to
| hold the reader's attention.
| balaji1 wrote:
| knowing this, should we do intentionally lift-and-coast? Get
| out of the rat-race?
|
| Going to a medical test center in America is insightful. Old
| folks who drive alone to get tests they know the results to,
| to take prescription drugs they know don't work. Tax money
| and or insurance is supporting this right?
| k__ wrote:
| I can relate a bit.
|
| I'm 36 and often ask myself, what did I do?
|
| My parents had kids with 20.
|
| My father and grandfather were managers with 25.
|
| I met a bunch of people who founded a company before they were
| 20.
|
| Friends of mine traveled from Europe to East Asia as hitchhikers
| in their 20s.
|
| Many of my fellow students work for FAANG. Two are CTOs at middle
| sized companies and one is even a professor at university.
|
| In contrast to that I always feel like a slacker.
| bigpeopleareold wrote:
| I had a conversation with co-workers once. The question is: Do
| we really want to do what our engineering manager does? I
| thought maybe I would want to, but as an engineering manager,
| he has the gravitas and attitude to do that work. I would think
| that I would have to do that and have been slowly gravitating
| towards that, but that was never my original motivation into
| getting into software development. Though, I think the fact
| that I don't have that position right now is a testament of how
| rather successful I am of what I originally wanted.
|
| When I was in my 30s, I felt like some colleagues had a bit
| more luck even for what they wanted to do: joining the right
| company, getting to work on the right projects. Maybe they slid
| into them or maybe they struggled to get the best projects. The
| fact is that I don't know. I never asked but it doesn't matter
| because I think that very few things from people are insightful
| enough anyway.
|
| Let's say we're successful slackers inst
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Let's talk about your _other_ friends from high school though.
| k__ wrote:
| Yes, most of my high school friends have basic 9-5 jobs and
| even many of my fellow students dropped out without any
| degree.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| Reading through this thread makes me wonder, what are
| achievements really? If it's not something that brings something
| to your life and helps you or others grow, then I don't think
| it's that much. Sometimes those things can even be things where
| the outright goal failed, because what really matters is
| something else, excellence of character, enjoying your life and
| helping bring that out in others as well.
|
| I think of someone like Steve Jobs, I remember when he was alive
| how much he was idolised and how everyone wanted to be the "Next
| Steve Jobs" now it has been some years that has passed, I feel
| like that light is a little less and people have moved onto the
| next thing they want to be, the next Elon musk, mark Zuckerberg
| or just some level of crazy achievement.
|
| But I wonder what it is worth really? Even those people that have
| achieved so much more than I ever have, did it really matter so
| much anyway? If those people were not around, everyone would find
| someone else to idolise, if those people were not around, the
| problems they solved in the world would likely just be solved by
| someone else or perhaps they would be solved in a different way
| at some point in a future and who is to say that that other
| future is not somehow better than what we have now? Due to the
| butterfly effect, we just cannot know what crazy alternative
| realities would happen if the people that we assume have added to
| humanity and given so much did not exist, somehow life would have
| continued and the fields in which they came would be just fine or
| perhaps even better as something else would have come along at
| some point, something that doesn't have to happen now because of
| the work they did, you cannot know that life itself is actually
| better because of them. You could cure cancer, but then the next
| evil dictator survives cancer due to the treatment and then nukes
| the entire planet into oblivion.
|
| When you think of it like this and see that 1) It is very
| unlikely that you would be able to achieve at that level and 2)
| It doesn't really matter anyway, your perspective is forced to
| change on these things, you start to look at just enjoying your
| life, doing things in a more localised way than trying to change
| the entire world.
| posix86 wrote:
| Sounds a lot like ADHD to me tbh.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| New puppy's behavior is easily confused as such.
|
| It's closer to the truth that we're probably just not supposed
| to live this way.
| xvector wrote:
| As someone with ADHD - our society places a high value on
| being a "focused worker bee." Individuals with ADHD do not
| fit this mold, even if they bring value with increased
| curiosity, inquisitiveness, and creativity.
|
| I think ADHD is a genetic trait that was evolutionarily
| selected for, and individuals with it made effective
| explorers, inventors, and creators, providing substantial
| benefit to humanity. It is an explorer's gene, though society
| today finds little value in that.
|
| It's so frustrating and incredibly heartbreaking because I
| think people with ADHD are 100% totally valid in their own
| right, as it is likely an _adaptive_ trait [1, 2], and yet
| our society has abandoned them as disabled.
|
| [1]: "ADHD as a disorder of adaptation" -
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9401328/
|
| [2]: "ADHD sucks, but not really | Salif Mahamane | TEDxUSU"
| - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWCocjh5aK0
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| You can't judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree,
|
| but all we pay for is tree-climbing!, between the hours of
| 8 and 5.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| ADHD goes without recognition and diagnoses way more often
| than it is being identified wrongly.
|
| It is a valid condition, with serious and quite predictable
| consequences, only partly fixable by medication and therapy.
| ArcMex wrote:
| I focus on the time required to accomplish something and it
| dictates where I want to be at a certain age, as opposed to
| picking an age and arbitrarily setting goals to hit by then.
| marinappi wrote:
| It's not just that I thought of accomplishing more, but I also
| believed the world would be stable and things wouldnt change too
| much. How foolish that was. A stable world is a dream and at any
| moment something somewhere might impact us so hard that it
| changes everything. My parents lived through that, had their jobs
| replaced with automated systems halting most of their dreams. And
| now we went through a pandemic and are going through a possible
| world war....
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| It's true that the pace of change appears to have accelerated.
|
| I grew up under the threat that the USSR would nuke the U.S.
| and 70's culture was beginning to wake up to problems of oil
| shortages (embargoes), over-population, pollution. I am not
| sure I perceived the world as a stable, predictable thing even
| then.
|
| But the Boomers had the rug pulled out from under them when the
| Summer of Love rolled in and suddenly the gender roles and
| marriage contracts of their parents generation "Ozzie and
| Harriet" lifestyle were shattered. Women entered the workplace,
| the decline of the blue-collar living wage, automation...
|
| And I suppose the generation before began with the Great
| Depression followed up by the rise of fascism and WWII...
| Derelicts wrote:
| I agree with all this. Times are changing and its happening
| so fast that not everyone can catch up. All the problems we
| had in the 70's did not get fully resolved, but seem to be
| getting worse, just look at global warming or oil and gas
| prices jumping sky high. Not to mention housing prices.
|
| Will see where the world goes in the next decade.. I sure
| hope it gets better.
| kochikame wrote:
| I think a lot of people on this thread are missing that this is a
| humor piece
| supermatt wrote:
| I think a lot of people are relating and finding it anything
| but funny.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| It's only funny because it is so close to the truth.
| anyfactor wrote:
| I found my zen when I was told that, "always know you are the
| best". No matter what, you are better than everyone by some
| metric.
|
| I also figured out quite recently that, never compare yourself to
| anyone because there is always going to be someone far better
| than you. Far luckier than you.
|
| I was binge watching a YouTube channel called "Geoguesser". Self
| explanatory. I was mesmerized by how skilled he was. Even if he
| was thrown into a literal no where, he was fairly accurate in his
| guess.
|
| Then I watched him compete with other people. He is good but he
| was no where as good as the other competitors. My reality was
| shattered. He is not a miracle but he was just skilled at a
| niche, that's all. There are better guessers but they were not
| miracles either they were more skilled AND more lucky.
|
| So the pursuit of skills and ambition never stops. It is not a
| thirst, it is greed. So stop comparing, embrace the mediocrity
| and convince yourself you are better. Start by finding the small
| things that makes you better than most.
| FabHK wrote:
| Not sure I understand - it seems to me that your first two
| paragraphs contradict each other (and the second (pessimistic)
| one is correct, not the first).
| sheerun wrote:
| you miss the aspect of time. life is not a theorem, it's a
| process
| Draiken wrote:
| This is always a tough subject for me because everyone seems to
| have at least an idea of what they want to achieve.
|
| When I was younger I had these silly dreams of moving to another
| country, getting married, becoming a programmer to make games,
| have my own company and get rich (haha).
|
| I did become a programmer and got married, but never left the
| country or became rich. Now on my 30s I know how limited my
| options are.
|
| I could focus on my craft. But I don't have the same drive as
| before. I could try to progress my career, but I'm already
| earning good money and I know to earn more I'd have to either
| start job hopping or study some leetcode to get into a FAANG. I
| could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly
| that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of
| hours. I could try to start a company, but I know that's
| extremely hard to do and also requires a shit-ton of luck to work
| out.
|
| After all that, I realize that I have no real objectives to
| strive for. Some of the dreams I realized and they weren't that
| satisfying. Some I discovered were not worth pursuing.
|
| And now what?
|
| In the end, I'm just a blip in the universe and when I'm gone it
| will be unchanged, the same as if I had never existed. Yet we
| focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society
| or life events.
|
| What's the point of it?
| Consultant32452 wrote:
| Focus on who's going to show up to your funeral and what
| they'll be thinking about you. That's what matters anyways, far
| more than your hobbies or career.
| tuyiown wrote:
| Only one answer is needed : do you enjoy the ride ?
| r0rshrk wrote:
| > I could try to progress my career, but I'm already earning
| good money and I know to earn more I'd have to either start job
| hopping or study some leetcode to get into a FAANG.
|
| I know this was not the point of your comment, but trust me
| that one can pass FAANG interviews without grinding Leetcode.
|
| If you're seriously considering a job search, I would recommend
| going through jobsearch.dev
| skinnymuch wrote:
| When people use FAANG in these discussions. Is it literally
| those five companies and a handful of other high end growth
| companies (Nvidia, Microsoft, Tesla?)? The number still being
| single digit. Or is it representing a handful more companies
| than fhat?
| reciprocity wrote:
| FAANG usually refers specifically to those companies. GAFAM
| is another acronym which exchanges Netflix with Microsoft.
| interestica wrote:
| You have to replace with Meta and Alphabet too... MAMAA
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I'm sure it doesn't make you feel any better but I'm in the
| exact, same, boat.
|
| I've decided to try to just chill out, and enjoy life as much
| as I can. Stop striving for crazy goals, and accept life for
| what it is - a lot of working, sleeping, spending time with
| family, occasionally traveling.
|
| I do what I need to do to make that enjoyable, and stop
| worrying about making it better / more money / more prestige /
| etc. This is counter to the American ethos but I found that
| focussing on things mostly outside of my reach / luck sphere,
| was mostly just making me unhappy and rarely moving the needle
| in wealth or fulfillment. Focus on what you can, and forget the
| rest. Finding peace with this is easier said than done.
| chasd00 wrote:
| > I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very
| quickly that to get good at anything, you need
| hundreds/thousands of hours
|
| the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best
| time is right now. To continue with the QOTDs: today you're the
| oldest you've ever been and the youngest you'll ever be, get
| started.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| > I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very
| quickly that to get good at anything, you need
| hundreds/thousands of hours.
|
| Be careful. You might regret this, or at least wished you'd
| done otherwise.
|
| Some years ago I bought a guitar. Worked at it initially - got
| distracted - and then put it aside. I now realize had I
| continued to pick it up everyday (or so) for say 20 to 30 mins
| I'd be able to play well enough by now. Perhaps not Hendrix or
| Page but enough to enjoy myself :)
|
| What's the point?
|
| The joy you brinb into the world. For yourself, and for others.
|
| Pretty much anything else is overrated.
| psyc wrote:
| For this reason I don't say I've been playing piano for 40
| years. I say I've been failing to practice piano for 40 years
| (and it shows).
| Draiken wrote:
| Funnily enough I got the exact same situation happen.
|
| My wife got me a guitar as either a nice decoration piece or
| something I could actually use if I wanted to. I never had
| the opportunity to learn that when I was a kid, so I tried to
| learn it.
|
| Quickly I realized I'd need to practice at least an hour a
| day for years before I could play one single song from my
| favorite band. It just made me quit after a few months.
|
| Worst part is that I knew that when I started. I told myself
| "I'll practice just a bit and when I'm 50 I'll be good at
| it".
|
| The problem is that I realized I did not enjoy practicing it
| every day. Drills, exercises over and over. It seems to me I
| enjoy the idea of being a person that can play the guitar
| well, but I don't really enjoy the journey to that.
| mendigou wrote:
| I'd recommend getting a teacher or someone who can plan
| your drills that forces you to play songs at your level.
|
| I'm no prodigy and could play stuff in a few months (heavy
| metal), maybe a year. But that's only because I played
| actual songs along with the drills.
| manmal wrote:
| Sounds like you need to set intermediate goals. When I
| started playing the guitar, I asked my teacher ,,Do you
| think I'll be able to play anything from Muse soon?" He was
| like ,,Uhhm maybe, if you practice super hard? But let's
| focus on getting this Smoke on the water to sound
| absolutely sick!"
|
| For a long time, my only goal was to make the finger
| exercises sound good. Play them with a metronome and push
| the number higher and higher. Integrate little licks into
| the practice routine, keeping pace with the metronome. My
| guitar teacher was _extremely_ motivated and this was
| contagious.
|
| Before I knew it, I could easily play most pop songs and
| many rock songs. I didn't even notice when I became able to
| play Muse because my interests had shifted by then. I
| joined a band and stayed with them for 5 years...
|
| (Addendum)
|
| ... until I quit because having two little kids doesn't mix
| well with a highly motivated band on the side. I guess I
| also had kind of a music playing burnout because the band
| was kinda toxic.
|
| Haven't touched the guitar for two years now, but I'll
| probably pick it up soon again, and learn new songs. Maybe
| record a reinterpretation of some electronic music I dig.
| Or make electronic music with guitar elements, like the
| late Daft Punk or something.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Time is relative. In the end, our planet is just a blip in the
| universe and when the sun goes it will be gone, and the
| universe will be unchanged, the same as if Earth had never
| existed...
|
| As far as the point, well, philosophy is fun. Why is there
| something when there could be nothing? Why does the universe
| even exist? What's the point of planets? What's the point of
| life on planets? What's the point of human evolution? Maybe
| there are no discrete points, aka a continuum, and it's all
| pointless. Or maybe there are discrete points, indivisible
| subatomic particles. Or maybe we're all in a simulation?
|
| For some the point is to continue the evolutionary process by
| breeding and spawning, like the salmon in the rivers do. For
| others the point is to amass as much wealth and power as
| possible so that they can be at the top of the human social
| hierarchy and enjoy alpha monkey status. Some invent
| supernatural beings and imagine life without end in an
| afterlife paradise. For others, the point is to push their
| minds and bodies to their limits by creating art, studying
| science, exploring the natural world, inventing technologies
| and so on.
|
| Probably the saddest crowd is those for whom the point of life
| has become little more than buying the useless garbage the
| advertisers tell them to buy. It's not healthy for the mind and
| it's not healthy for the body, and it's leading to
| environmental catastrophe. Many people are miserable because
| they can't buy all the products they're told they're supposed
| to buy in order to acquire the patina of success (the antidote
| is to adopt an indifferent attitude towards advertising and its
| psychological manipulation strategies).
| ALittleLight wrote:
| In a Lex Fridman podcast with Stephen Wolfram, Fridman observes
| that in some ways Wolfram and Elon Musk are alike. Wolfram
| agrees. The similarity is what Wolfram calls "Optimism" - a
| strong belief that not only can they accomplish great things
| but that they can do so relatively quickly. This is Elon Musk
| saying self-driving cars are going to happen by the end of the
| year, or Wolfram saying he's discovering the unified theory of
| everything.
|
| The idea they touch on in the podcast is that this optimism
| helps people do great things. If you realized the thing you
| want is decades away, you might not even try. If you
| (incorrectly) think you are on the cusp of achieving some
| monumental goal then you may strive for it and, throughout
| those decades, you may keep believing you are on the cusp and
| keep striving until you finally reach your goal.
|
| This is connected to the idea of "Depressive realism" - which
| is the idea that depressed people are often more realistic
| about the world. Perhaps, to be productive, it helps to have a
| somewhat delusional belief or confidence in your own abilities.
| bigtex88 wrote:
| Enjoy life while you're here. Smoke weed. Have sex. Take a
| vacation. Listen to music. Go scuba diving. Write a book. None
| of it matters anyway.
| GuardianCaveman wrote:
| What the point? Exceed your potential. Set goals like becoming
| rich, climb a mountain, start your company, fail many times if
| it takes it. Take 6 months off for around the world travel. You
| said you dont have the drive as before. That's your choice.
| Drive is something we can choose and cultivate. If you're happy
| the way you are then that's one thing but I for one am not
| going to lean on my insignificance when compared to the
| universe to justify why I don't do things. If you want it, go
| for it!
| Draiken wrote:
| Genuine question: how do you find these goals in the first
| place?
|
| Do you just randomly put them out there and work for it so
| you can tick that checkbox?
|
| Take for example starting a company. I had that goal before
| and today I know that'd take an enormous amount of effort and
| would take me away from my family and the few hobbies I have.
| All that doesn't guarantee I can make it, since the majority
| of companies fail and luck plays a huge factor there.
|
| I could set that as a goal, but is it worth it?
|
| Most people I talk to when we dive into why they set a
| particular goal for themselves, it comes down to a childhood
| dream or something set by society. That's why I don't see the
| point.
| auto wrote:
| Another key aspect you need to consider is that
| (pseudoscience/hand-waving incoming) your brain is very
| good at taking all of your prior experience and
| extrapolating it forward, and telling you "if you do this
| thing, this will be the outcome".
|
| My point is, you're not considering all of the things you
| don't know, because you can't. It isn't just about "start a
| company that will probably fail based on the % of companies
| that actually succeed". It's about "who will I meet while
| trying to start the company, that could turn into a life
| long friend", or "what skills do I know so little about
| that I'll be required to exercise while starting my company
| that may blossom into a passion I never knew about", or
| "what sort of example could I be setting for my
| kids/family/friends who might be on the fence in regards to
| taking their own leaps of faith"?
|
| We're all too quick to assume we know the outcome of
| things, and we too easily forget the crazy, spontaneous
| circumstances of our youth that grew out into huge parts of
| our lives; that possibility doesn't go away when you're
| older, it's just most people tend to stop letting their
| lives have any risk or slack in them that could introduce
| those sorts of catalyst events.
| Draiken wrote:
| I had never really thought about it in that sense. This
| is a very interesting take that honestly made me a bit
| emotional.
|
| Thank you for this.
| auto wrote:
| Don't mention it, just glad to help!
| hugozap wrote:
| I think it happens organically, you start increasing your
| sphere of influence in some area and with some audience and
| gradually those goals kind of emerge as natural steps.
| AnonCoward4 wrote:
| > Drive is something we can choose and cultivate.
|
| That sounds like hybris. I am not disagreeing that you can
| alter it to a degree, but it is certainly not something you
| choose. Just think about how you feel when you are ill and
| now think of people with allergies for example, that can
| always feel ill depending on circumstances.
|
| These limits exist always and they are different from person
| to person and these limits are not always set by (obvious)
| illnesses, but by the body in general.
|
| edit: limit => limits
| wwn_se wrote:
| Of course you can be more driven (there is of course a
| limit but most are far from it). I have done it I used to
| be content with where I was in life. Made decent money,
| family, friends and hobbies.
|
| But I decided that I wanted more so I let my hobbies grow a
| bit and changed employer. Sure I'm not a million miles from
| where i was but I'm not in the same place.
|
| Once I took the first steps the next got easier and I
| started to look for more opportunities. Find your first
| step, it should be small but in the right direction. Ask to
| take lead on something at work or push yourself in your
| hobby.
|
| What I think everyone with kids should have as one of their
| goals is to get them one step up the ladder. Give them a
| slightly better chance than you had. Most successful people
| have successful parents, very few start from zero. My
| parents were middle class but I'm upper middle class.
| matthewdgreen wrote:
| This happens to everyone in their 30s. You realize that "dying
| someday" -- which seemed like a big distant hypothetical when
| you were a kid -- is actually a thing that will happen on a
| timescale you can reason about. Your career gets hard and you
| don't really know the point of it. It takes a while to get over
| it.
|
| Then you hit your 40s and you realize that since you're going
| to die anyway, why waste the time and die bored and mediocre?
| So you start appreciating things and choosing to do stuff that
| interests you, whatever that is.
|
| YMMV obviously and N=1. But unless you have a terminal disease
| "I've hit 30 and my life is basically over" is just BS you're
| telling yourself.
| croutonwagon wrote:
| >"I've hit 30 and my life is basically over" is just BS
| you're telling yourself.
|
| I wouldnt categorize my internal struggles this way. Because
| I have already hit this point (below) despite being in my mid
| 30's now.
|
| >you realize that since you're going to die anyway, why waste
| the time and die bored and mediocre?
|
| That said, the struggle I find is its all a sliding scale.
| That I am butting up against realistic time limits.
|
| That pushing more here (ie: career) means i have to sacrifice
| something else or re-prioritize a hobby, family, etc. And I
| have a good equilibrium. So how do i do it while no upsetting
| that and maintaining the things that keep me grounded and
| from burning out.
|
| Ultimately i KNOW patience and waiting for the right time is
| probably the right answer. But life happens, and a buddy of
| mine, same age and kids and all just passed, and it again
| will make you reconsider perspective (for me, on several
| different "planes".)
|
| One thing i have realized is that many that are very
| successful in a traditional sense, dont always have the best
| equilibrium and have achieved that at a cost. And I am not
| sure if thats a cost im willing to risk.
|
| I really need a damn vacation maybe.
| my_usernam3 wrote:
| I'm in the same boat friend, yet I don't remember buying a
| ticket.
|
| > I really need a damn vacation maybe.
|
| We should both make this happen. I'm going to plan today
| not tomorrow.
| Draiken wrote:
| So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks about? I
| never assumed this was it because I don't explicitly think
| about mortality all that much. I don't particularly mind that
| I'm going to die.
|
| I also haven't bought a Harley or have the will to do
| anything of the sorts.
|
| Guess I just have to figure out how to come out of it. It's
| been a slog and right now I don't see the light at the end of
| the tunnel, hehe.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I speak only for myself, but the closest thing I've felt to
| a 'mid-life crisis' (I'm 48 now) is more of a realization
| that there are a number of life choices that I can no
| longer make because they simply aren't available to someone
| at my stage in life. If I dwell on them, I feel a bit sad.
| I suspect some people try to grab something that serves as
| a talisman of those lost opportunities and cling to it for
| a bit, and this is the manifestation of their mid-life
| crisis.
| antattack wrote:
| Midlife crisis is when you realize that 'midlife crisis'
| was a lie and there's nothing 'mid' about it, and that you
| have only 10-20 more years left of denying that you are
| mortal.
| wmeredith wrote:
| > So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks
| about?
|
| It sure sounds like it. Regarding "buying a Harley" I think
| that can act as a shorthand for "realizing life is short
| and doing something for yourself now that you have the
| means and while you can enjoy it", which is a good idea in
| my opinion.
| kirubakaran wrote:
| Protagonist: "Life is short, I'll buy a motorcycle"
|
| Narrator: "And his life just got shorter"
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| Oh, life is far too short for a Harley. Buy a Ducati or
| something. ;)
|
| No seriously though the other reason 35-year-olds buy a
| motorcycle or convertible or similar pleasure vehicle is
| that they actually can afford it, unlike new grads just
| out of school? (I differentiate the pleasure vehicle from
| the utility vehicle; if you buy a little 125cc motorcycle
| as a car-alternative for zooming around town that's quite
| different than the speed machines, or the massive touring
| motorcycles that get SUV-grade gas mileage.)
|
| Anyway, this is one of the positive parts of middle age
| -- maybe you're not _actually_ rich, but you 're usually
| _much_ better off then you were in your twenties, might
| have a good start on a home or a retirement, and can
| afford a few personal luxuries, or children.
| brimble wrote:
| In earlier decades, the mid-life crisis years were likely
| also about the time most parents' kids had either just
| left the house, or would very soon. If you have a kid at
| 20, they're (hopefully) leaving at 38....
| WanderPanda wrote:
| > If you have a kid at 20, they're (hopefully) leaving at
| 38....
|
| The "(hopefully)" is interesting! Living in an Arabic
| country and having many Mediterranean colleagues I
| recently started to appreciate that different cultures
| have a very different point of view on when kids should
| leave their parents house. For them it is perfectly
| normal to stay with their parents until the age of 25-30,
| while e.g. in Germany this would be considered quite
| weird already.
| bacro wrote:
| I don't mind dying really and I am in my 40s and haven't
| accomplished much of what I wanted. However, my life is
| getting better and better. Better job, better pay, working
| from home, got a few cats that are amazing for stress and
| bought a new place for me. As I love to learn new things
| everyday, life is just getting better and better.
| MaximumYComb wrote:
| I was diagnosed with cancer at 30 and the initial prognosis
| wasn't great. Turns out it wasn't that bad and I easily beat
| it but it certainly changed my view on life. My 30's have
| been great. I get a lot of satisfaction from my family, my
| social life, my work, etc. I've made peace with where my life
| is at and I feel like I have control (to a degree) on where
| it's going.
| Tcepsa wrote:
| Definitely have been struggling with stuff along these lines
| since my late 20s or so. It's been kind of like a revelation-
| onion, slowly peeling back the layers of expectations from
| myself and from others and realizing "Hey maybe I don't have
| to try to keep up with the media that everyone else is
| watching," and "Oh, if I want I really can pursue <obscure
| hobby>!" and developing into "You know, maybe this managerial
| track really isn't for me and focusing on developing into an
| effective senior IC would be more satisfying" and "Screw it,
| I'm sick of living in this area with its traffic and its
| noise; time to see whether my job will support me as full-
| time remote or find one that will, and find a house in the
| midwest"
|
| Given this trajectory it seems like there's maybe a risk that
| I'll end up as a hermit in the woods... but would that be so
| bad, if I were an extremely fulfilled and satisfied hermit?
| supertofu wrote:
| My only life's goal is to become a hermit in the woods.
|
| Hopefully by the time I hit 45 I'll have saved enough to
| retire, uninstall VS Code forever, and enjoy the woods for
| the rest of my life :)
| heyitsanewacco wrote:
| Do it. If quiet introversion is your thing then I think
| you've got a good plan.
|
| You don't have to be a Manager, and you don't have to be
| rich. Focus on being happy instead.
| gfxgirl wrote:
| I didn't feel like "It hit N and my life is basically over"
| until N = ~50
| Balero wrote:
| Well into my early 30's now, and can identify a fair bit with
| this, especially the "dying someday" being an actual time
| that will happen. Whilst it isn't massively interfering with
| my life, I do hope some of that dread and sadness stops
| popping up. It all started during lockdowns so might be to do
| with feeling like missing things.
|
| One thing that has changed is how things seem more
| transitory, instead of something being THE thing, it's just
| the thing here and now, and it will all change before long.
| Which whilst it always made sense, I never really
| internalised it.
| [deleted]
| gfxgirl wrote:
| My advice. Focus on spending time with friends and family and
| helping others. Advice I'm not very good at taking myself.
|
| Let me add, "spending time with friends" to me means "find a
| job where I like the people and want the hangout with them" so
| that I don't have some 8-10hrs a day of something I want to
| avoid. Those have been the best times in my life where going to
| work was fun because it was like hanging out with friends.
| Friends I would see outside of work as well. That work was also
| on small teams (< 30 people), on small projects where I had a
| lot of influence, to the point that the project felt like
| something I was helping to create and had some pride in how it
| turned out. In other words, not just a cog in a machine.
| slothtrop wrote:
| This reminds me of a recent book by a blogger-psychiatrist who
| suggests "you don't really have desires", that is, he argues
| that we live in a pornographic society because we trade agency
| for knowledge, that we can only act on desire by pretending we
| have no choice. Or something. It's more convoluted than I'd
| agree with but there's something there.
|
| Personally I think desire can be distilled down to basic
| things, and we just devise abstractions to satisfy them. If
| it's no longer clear how x or y would bring any satisfaction,
| then you won't long for it. Or some other desire is in conflict
| and you need to resolve it. I think we also become more risk-
| averse when times are generally good/stable, and excuses are a
| good defense mechanism.
|
| Given the implied restlessness of your question, maybe you need
| to mull further on what it is you think is lacking. You
| mentioned career: maybe money isn't the deciding factor as to
| whether you should advance. You mentioned hobbies: sinking
| hundreds of hours by habitually sticking to them is what makes
| something a hobby, so do you like them or not? You mentioned
| starting a company: what is alluring about this? What does it
| satisfy?
|
| Maybe it's easier to answer: do you feel stagnant and bored?
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| I felt the same as you for several years in my mid 20s and
| drank a lot/did a lot of drugs to cope with it.
|
| I came out of that haze realizing that the point of it, at
| least for me, is to spend time doing things I enjoy and spend
| time with people I love.
|
| Making a mark on the world? Not my main focus. Making the lives
| of the people I care about better? Very important.
| stocknoob wrote:
| Life is a musical thing, per Alan Watts:
|
| https://youtu.be/ERbvKrH-GC4
| kirsebaer wrote:
| Being a solid adult member of your community has lots of value.
| Think "It's a Wonderful Life".
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| No kids, huh?
| xwdv wrote:
| Having kids is the last straw that breaks your dreams. By
| that point you've committed to the parent lifestyle and your
| life as it has been is over. You now spend the rest of your
| days providing for your family and viewing everything through
| the lens of a parent.
| meigwilym wrote:
| My children are now over the age of ten. I find myself in a
| great place to start doing other things. I can do much more
| in the evenings, as long as I'm available for their taxi
| service. And me being out of the house has little to no
| impact on my wife.
|
| The thing about having kids is that it's increased my
| drive. I had a few years where I failed to do things in the
| little time I had, so learned to push myself to do them.
| That's still there, in addition to having more free time.
|
| So it's great! It only took...ooh...fifteen years?
| lallysingh wrote:
| It's funny you say that today, I was just thinking about
| it. Family provides a ton of emotional cushion,
| perspective, and motivation. They're a lot of work, but
| also a lot of fun. It's far easier to motivate yourself
| into working hard for them than your own material desires.
| And you don't lose your dreams to them in the process, they
| become part of them.
| alkaloid wrote:
| What a depression notion.
|
| My wife and I moved to the other side of the planet with
| four children, travelled all over the world, and so on,
| because we prioritized it.
| randomsearch wrote:
| Maybe that's true.
|
| It's certainly true that many parents spend 8 hours a day
| _not_ looking after their kids, but working on something.
| We have an enormous power of choice in what we work on, so
| choose something meaningful and your life will "not be
| over".
| biren34 wrote:
| This doesn't have to be true, though it is for many.
|
| If you can find a version of your dreams that pays the rent
| and puts food on the table, you can still chase them.
|
| Your financial metabolism does go up though, and the total
| universe of options shrinks. Ramen profitable doesn't mean
| actual ramen when you've got a spouse and kids.
|
| I found that I've gotten much further in pursuing my dreams
| after having kids than before. Maybe it's just coincidence,
| but I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the
| kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1 to
| improving my business outcomes.
| jkhdigital wrote:
| > I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the
| kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1
| to improving my business outcomes.
|
| This 1000%. I would say the same applies to learning how
| to be the _spouse_ I wanted to be.
| cloverich wrote:
| It does limit your options, but also helps you focus and
| teaches you to be patient and less self centered. It opens
| your eyes to a world that's hard to otherwise appreciate.
| It's not a panacea of meaning but for me, i've found myself
| able to achieve more growth now (two kids) because it's
| forced me to confront and attack the thing that was holding
| me back: lack of focus and most importantly being very
| selective in what i choose to do.
| garrickvanburen wrote:
| Hard disagree.
|
| I wasted a lot of time before kids.
|
| All of the things I'm most proud of I've done since having
| kids.
| kerrsclyde wrote:
| Second this. I kicked about and achieved hardly anything
| before I had children.
| jkhdigital wrote:
| +1. Having children causes one to be deeply, intimately
| invested in the future. "What kind of future shall we
| leave our children?" is just an abstract ideal to one who
| does not have children.
| [deleted]
| kerrsclyde wrote:
| I had my forth child 15 years after my other three, when I
| was well into my mid-30's.
|
| I find that appreciate/savour/lament his growing much more
| than I did my others. Maybe this is because I am an older
| dad or maybe because I have grown 3 children already and I
| can appreciate how quickly those years pass.
| paulcole wrote:
| If that's how a person without kids feels, isn't having kids
| just creating another person who has to have kids to find
| meaning in their life (and on and on and on)?
|
| With the certainty of climate change, it feels like adoption
| is the only moral/ethical way to do this.
| ericmay wrote:
| Going to strongly push back on adoption being morally or
| ethically superior to having children the ole' fashioned
| way because of climate change. I don't see this as a
| productive train of thought and more likely solutions for
| climate change exist elsewhere.
|
| It's ok to have kids. Adopting kids is nice and that's ok
| too.
| paulcole wrote:
| > more likely solutions for climate change exist
| elsewhere.
|
| Anybody who's having kids today sure better hope so.
| alfor wrote:
| It's a very pessimistic worldview. While it's true that
| they are great filter ahead of us I think climate change is
| not the biggest concern.
|
| Look into Tony Seba to see how fast the transition to RE is
| happening.
|
| We could also geoengineering the climate if it become a
| real problem.
| Draiken wrote:
| (GP) I actually have a 21 year old. When I married he was 7,
| so I probably lost the craziness of the early years. However
| I raised him as my son the best way I could.
|
| I don't particularly like the idea of having more kids
| though. Put them on this world?
|
| Ugh... I know, I'm a bit too pessimistic
| vlunkr wrote:
| I think for the average person, having kids might be the
| best way to have a positive impact on the world. Something
| like selling a company sounds like a bigger deal, but in
| 10, 30, 50 years, what will it matter? Some money is
| exchanged and some customers have some need fulfilled for
| the moment. Having kids and doing your best to teach them
| to be happy, empathetic, thoughtful, etc. can have an
| impact for generations.
| kuntau wrote:
| Sounds like you need a true religion, that have answers for
| the purpose of life.
|
| It's not too late to find the truth.
| gilbetron wrote:
| Religion is just fiction to make you feel better. Which
| does have a point, but once you see it for what it is, it
| is hard to go back to it.
|
| The community is kind of what I miss a bit about it, and
| that community makes a bit more sense now that I'm middle
| aged. But I don't know if the rest of the crap that comes
| with it is worth it for the community that you can
| achieve with it.
| asd wrote:
| > It's not too late to find the truth.
|
| What is the truth?
| jwozn wrote:
| Seeking to find the truth may be something that is good
| for some people:
| https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/idol-words
| cyberlurker wrote:
| www.zombo.com
| alfor wrote:
| I found this inspiring (biblical lecture from a
| scientific perspective)
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w
| otikik wrote:
| > I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very
| quickly that to get good at anything, you need
| hundreds/thousands of hours.
|
| The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's
| enjoying them for their own sake. Otherwise they turn into ...
| work.
|
| > I'm just a blip in the universe and when I'm gone it will be
| unchanged, the same as if I had never existed.
|
| Yes. The Universe doesn't expect or have any special plans for
| you.
|
| But hey, that is not that bad. Consider the opposite. The
| _Whole_ universe having a plan for you. The whole infinite
| Cosmos. Just thinking about you and having a plan for you.
|
| I don't know about you. But it would give me a panic attack.
|
| It's ok that the Universe doesn't have a plan for you. This
| frees you to assign your life whatever meaning you want - and
| to change it at any point! You can also feel gratified about
| fulfilling your self-assigned potential or feel extremely
| disapointed if you did not. Or, change them again. Some hold
| that the secret to happiness is having the right expectations
| about oneself.
|
| > And now what?
|
| Therapy worked for me.
| slowroll wrote:
| It sounds like the idea of "the universe has no plan for you"
| really didn't help considering you needed therapy
| roci-ceres wrote:
| Taking therapy does not mean that the person failed to
| realize his dreams. Successful and unsuccessful people both
| might feel the need to therapy at some point in their life.
| ectospheno wrote:
| I've found that therapy is a bit like minecraft in that the
| people knocking it have almost certainly never tried it.
| gfxgirl wrote:
| you might be right. But AFAIK, Therapy is a mostly USA
| thing. Most cultures don't do it. You'd probably say they
| don't because they are not yet enlightened. I think
| they'd probably have a different pov
| Loughla wrote:
| >Therapy is a mostly USA thing. Most cultures don't do
| it.
|
| First off, that's a bold statement that I need something
| to back it up, unless it's just your opinion.
|
| For the sake of argument, let's say it is true, though.
| Is the more likely reason that there are different
| societal pressures, expectations, and outlets inherent in
| different cultures, causing different mental health
| outcomes and needs?
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| If therapy is mostly a USA thing why does ICD exist as a
| completely separate diagnostics structure vs DSM? Why are
| there huge studies and money towards culture specific
| mental illnesses and phenomenon that doesn't exist in the
| USA entirely?
| slothtrop wrote:
| Colloquially "therapy" tends to refer to just talk-
| therapy. It's useful to the extent that talking out your
| issues with someone is useful, but at $100/h.
|
| There are forms of therapy as interventions that are
| generally shown to be effective according to research
| (e.g. CBT and variants), and I think we'd be rid of a lot
| of confusion by better distinguishing one therapy from
| another.
| scrollbar wrote:
| Looks like you're getting downvoted maybe because of the
| mean spirit of your comment, but your idea is probably held
| by many, to which I say:
|
| Therapy can be such a powerful force for self-discovery and
| mental well-being. To think that believing a given
| philosophical statement can have the same effect as deep
| inner work is to completely write off the power of therapy.
| I would highly recommend it for anyone who has grown up in
| less-than-ideal social systems (pretty much all of us) and
| who wants to improve their life.
| theguru2323 wrote:
| I think that ship has sailed. Even the word "therapy" has
| lost all meaning, just like "mental health" and we are
| all just conditioned to believe that the only way to
| achieve anything is through group think and therapy.
|
| If you're fucked up, try drugs, (preferably the _legal_
| kind, but certain herbs work really well) before you try
| therapy. Therapy is expensive for a reason; it's 50% a
| scam.
| [deleted]
| kowbell wrote:
| Are you implying that if someone believes the universe has
| a plan for them, then they won't need therapy?
| cschep wrote:
| I think they were implying that if they are horrified
| that the universe doesn't have a plan for them that
| therapy could help relieve them of that pain.
| banannaise wrote:
| Show me someone who doesn't need therapy and I'll show you
| someone who is delusional about the stability of their
| mental and emotional state.
| solveit wrote:
| I don't believe any reputable psychiatrist would claim
| that _everyone_ _needs_ therapy.
| gfxgirl wrote:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=therapy+harmful
| SuoDuanDao wrote:
| It's this kind of attitude that turns a lot of us off the
| field. When I hear an absolutist statement focused on
| ingroup versus outgroup I feel an immediate revulsion for
| the memeplex producing it. To be optimistically curious
| towards something that other people find brings them
| mental and emotional stability I need to see some
| acknowledgement that they have not tried and are
| therefore not qualified to dismiss every alternative.
| nonono1 wrote:
| > The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's
| enjoying them for their own sake. Otherwise they turn into
| ... work.
|
| For some of us, the point of almost any endeavor in life is
| to be "good" at them. That isn't even to say you can't enjoy
| it, or you have to feel anxious about whether you're good
| enough at it. The point is the go through the process of
| becoming good at the things you choose to do because we
| acknowledge that there is something beautiful and admirable
| about expertise.
|
| Someone who feels dejected -- because he can't see the reason
| in doing something unless he's already hit the requisite
| hours to be 'good' at it -- probably needs to hear that he
| needs to unlearn whatever makes him feel bad about being
| 'bad' at the start, instead of hearing that it's okay to suck
| at something as long as he enjoys it.
|
| Otherwise, all you're doing is trading one form of anxiety
| for another (I must be good at X vs. I must feel good about
| X), and he's still going to notice that he sucks at the thing
| (playing guitar, golfing, whatever) and find difficulty
| enjoying it from there.
| talentedcoin wrote:
| But it _is_ OK to suck at something as long as you enjoy
| it.
|
| What does "suck" even mean in this context? A composer
| might still "suck" if they compared themselves to Johann
| Sebastian Bach, but is that the most important question in
| the scheme of things?
|
| The one thing we can all become experts at is being
| ourselves. Nobody in the world, in fact, can do it better.
| I think it's best to focus on that.
|
| The anxiety you're describing, I think, is endemic in
| modern society, especially among the professional class.
| Whether or not we choose to adopt it is up to us.
| Sirened wrote:
| ++ I suck at rollerblading. I look goofy, I can't do any
| fun tricks, and it's not even practical for commuting. I
| love it all the same because it feels good and it's a
| nice quiet activity I can do while listening to music to
| just decompress.
| robotnikman wrote:
| >The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's
| enjoying them for their own sake. Otherwise they turn into
| ... work.
|
| I fall into this pitfall a lot, whether it be working on
| small personal projects or playing a video game. I think a
| large part of it comes down to comparing yourself to others.
|
| I took up drawing a year ago and it was completely new to me,
| as well as the first hobby in a while I went into without
| caring how well I did. And as a result it was fun and
| relaxing. A few months ago I started looking at other artists
| and their work and started comparing my work to theirs. And
| guess what, I began feeling like drawing was a chore or work.
|
| More and more I am starting to believe the phrase 'Comparison
| is the thief of all joy'. I try to remind myself of this when
| I notice that I'm comparing myself to others.
| 3qz wrote:
| > The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's
| enjoying them for their own sake
|
| I think his point is that being really bad at something is no
| fun. If my goal is to have fun I would rather do something I
| will enjoy right away.
| whatshisface wrote:
| You can't have anything without investment not even fun.
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| Being bad at something can be fun; that's mindset. Being
| bad is the first step at being good at it!
| fowkswe wrote:
| > And now what?
|
| If you haven't already, I highly suggest making a child if
| you can. It seems to snap all of this into focus - it did for
| me anyway.
|
| I mean I still have a ton of existential dread and still
| often wonder what the point is but I do find purpose in
| providing for my family and trying to raise a human that can
| do good - maybe better than me and the author of that NYer
| piece :D.
| qwerpy wrote:
| It's sad that this comment got downvoted. There's hundreds
| of millions of years of evolution that codifies "you should
| have children" into our genes, and it's not hard to see
| that this has something to do with how middle age can feel
| meaningless if you don't. Just because it's difficult
| and/or not fashionable to have kids these days, doesn't
| mean those biological imperatives aren't still there,
| subtly affecting your thoughts.
| alexonaci wrote:
| Agree, and this is definetly not a popular opinion nowadays.
| But you could try having kids. You'll find the meaning like a
| fire under the arse
| zivkovicp wrote:
| This.
|
| Sometimes it's tough, but it's always rewarding.
| chasd00 wrote:
| my two boys are the hardest, most rewarding, and impactful
| code i ever wrote.
| croon wrote:
| I can't disagree more with this. Absolutely do not bring a
| living person into this world in a coin flip over whether or
| not it might mean something to your own fulfilment.
|
| I am a parent, and absolutely love it and find it extremely
| rewarding, but it's a ton of work and sacrifice. If both me
| and my wife were not going into it deliberately with the
| expectation of what it would entail, it would probably end up
| bad for everyone involved, especially the involuntary
| participants (our kids).
|
| No one can tell you what it's like to be a parent, but do not
| become one without being prepared to put them first for a
| couple of decades.
|
| If you are, then kids are amazing, and have brought us more
| joy than anything previously. Just be prepared for the cost
| (not just literally). I have seen plenty of regretful
| parents, even if never explicitly expressed.
| stocknoob wrote:
| Thank you for writing this. There's an insidious motivation
| that you have kids for what they can give you ("solve my
| meaning problem!") vs what you can offer them. If you
| gamble on kids giving you meaning and they don't, now what?
| deckard1 wrote:
| If you go out searching for meaning, you're not going to
| find it. "Is this meaning?" you might ask, for every
| choice or circumstance you face. The answer will always
| be "no". Because you can analyze anything to death. Poke
| holes in any situation and find some reason it's not full
| of "meaning".
|
| Finish a big project at work before the deadline? "Is
| this meaning?" Obviously no. The big project won't impact
| the mega-conglomerate's bottom line. And if it did,
| what's it mean to increase the revenue of your employer
| by 0.001% YoY? For you, personally, that is. Etc.
|
| Just got married? "Is this meaning?" Again, no. Anyone
| can get married. Most people do get married. It's
| incredibly common. You're not special for getting
| married, yet people spend lavishly on weddings to force
| some amount of "meaning" on the occasion. The day before
| your wedding isn't different than the day after. I've
| been to a dozen weddings and can really only recall the
| details of maybe two of those.
|
| I've not seen a more miserable group of people than
| /r/fatFIRE on reddit. They have insane wealth, go to
| retire, and find their life hollow. The mistake is
| thinking there is some reward is at the _end_ of the
| journey. I have $30 million dollars, I 've retired, _now
| what?_ You either fill that hole with giant amounts of
| crap (new Lambo, fancy house, huge TV) or "experiences"
| (which really translates into traveling to places where
| poor people are your temporary servants because of the
| gross power imbalance wealth has granted you). Or, more
| work. The real secret to retirement is... maybe don't?
|
| Hayao Miyazaki is still working, and certainly doesn't
| need to. He also doesn't believe that personal happiness
| should be a goal (it's a very Western point-of-view), and
| considers filmmaking to be suffering[1]. And I suppose
| that's the real reward for having kids. The meaning is
| the work and the pain. You'll change a child's diaper
| thousands of times. But you'll also get to see them smile
| and laugh.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7zxdENmas
| SubuSS wrote:
| Really - you haven't seen a more miserable group on
| REDDIT than fatfire? Come on.
|
| It seems you're saying there's no meaning to life if I
| understand that text right.
|
| I don't know about you - but am a regular reader on
| fatfire fwiw and I do find my life immensely meaningful.
| I like finding goals, working towards them and possibly
| achieving them even (sometimes) or refocusing again. I
| look at the human experience as the meaning. Money
| definitely allows for varied experiences while I can pawn
| away the grunt work of living. Take it for what you will!
| stocknoob wrote:
| If you find something meaningless, you should bring others
| into it?
|
| https://68.media.tumblr.com/1720120c34db164d142a9537087b1aa1.
| ..
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| An existential crisis of meaning is a terrible reason to have
| kids.
|
| Have kids because you wish to raise another human from infant
| to fully formed adult, and are willing to make the huge
| sacrifices that requires. Don't have them to try and plug
| some sort of hole in your life.
| cupofpython wrote:
| life coach here. your feeling is valid and there is no
| 'answer'. It sounds like you believe you have to actually do
| something in order to have a point
|
| this feeling demands deep personal reflection and / or extended
| authentic conversation with someone who knows you well --
| nothing a text forum will be able to give you so do not be
| discouraged if you read a hundred posts of advice and none of
| them do anything for you.
|
| If you want to explore more of the philosophy of this kind of
| feeling then I have a recommendation. There is a popular
| podcast called "Philosophize This!" by Stephen West that
| actually went into a multi-episode dive on "The Creation of
| Meaning" recently. It starts on Episode 157. The podcast is a
| casual conversation-style lecture format. The first episode is
| 25 minutes long.
|
| >Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams,
| society or life events.
|
| In my experience goals are used to resolve unmet needs.
| Children are very needy and have lots of goals. If you need
| more money, you set a goal to get it.
|
| Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in
| anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You
| are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick
| your feet up and enjoy.
| Draiken wrote:
| > Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in
| anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You
| are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick
| your feet up and enjoy.
|
| I think that's quite possible. In my view to go up now the
| cost is very high, either energy-wise or time-wise, with
| little benefit. As an example I could get more money but not
| enough to retire in the short term (unless I'm extremely
| lucky).
|
| Looking at expectations put on me from where I came from, I'm
| light years ahead, so I should be feeling like "I made it",
| but I don't.
|
| > Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy.
|
| Haha, I have to find a way to enjoy it somehow. Unfortunately
| I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough that seems
| to drain away enjoyment of the moment.
|
| Thanks for the reference, I'll make sure to check it out
| cupofpython wrote:
| >expectations put on me from where I came from
|
| >I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough
|
| These two things are not unusual to find in the same
| person, and a talk therapist can probably help with the
| details.
|
| Tbh, I had a similar thing. What I resolved in therapy was
| recognizing that the feeling was a mental shortcut; a
| mechanism / engine running under the hood indiscriminately.
| It wasn't wrong, but it was incomplete.
|
| In response, I expanded the wiring a bit. I now feel it as
| "there is always more I _could_ do " which basically wired
| my choice into the mix. Then I exercise that choice. "There
| is more I can do, but this is enough". the part for me that
| is hard to put into words is that "enough" is a soft line.
| doing enough doesnt mean i need to stop doing.
|
| I say that last line there bc there was, for me, a related
| feeling of "Everything I do must be efficient" bc that gets
| more done and i can never do enough. This needed to be
| dismantled / rewired as well
|
| Taken together, "never do enough" and "always be efficient"
| created an impasse where doing more than enough was
| inefficient. And I could not view my life as being enough
| without self-implying that it should end. Being busy
| justified my existence, and if i could not justify being
| busy then i could not justify myself. Obviously this is not
| a rational conclusion, but that's why therapy helps. I did
| not realize this kind of irrationality was emergent from my
| subconscious heuristics until the right line of
| conversation bubbled it to the surface. I said the words
| and realized the issue at the same time. Once I noticed it,
| I could of course handle the work of correcting it on my
| own time.
| FFRefresh wrote:
| Ultimately, it's up to _you_ to decide the point of it. You are
| the universe made self-aware, packaged in a meat suit with some
| primitive impulses that just so happens to be living in the
| most convenient /low friction environment for those primitive
| impulses in human history thus far.
|
| Our culture biases towards certain life meanings (get rich! be
| famous! do high class things! be higher status than others!
| belong to the cool in-group!), and our primitive impulses are
| very attracted to those meanings. But as we accomplish those
| things, they don't end up feeling super meaningful or
| fulfilling.
|
| We will all be forgotten, the universe doesn't care about our
| lives. But we are the universe made self-aware! How awesome is
| this? Yeah, we need to balance a lot of the human concerns
| because we're embodied in these meat suits that have certain
| needs. But there's so much to think about/discover/appreciate
| about it all while we can!
| code_runner wrote:
| A few hobbies are fun even before you're good. Baking can be a
| lot of fun... start with super detailed recipes and pay
| attention to the details. Eventually you learn to improvise and
| pick up little bits and pieces of how the ingredients work
| together.
|
| Running/exercise is one with so many levels you can only truly
| compete with yourself to improve (and you'll feel good).
|
| Music is one that is sooo difficult. You suck for a long time,
| but can make incremental improvements.
| agentwiggles wrote:
| Weightlifting has been one of the most satisfying pursuits I
| took up as an "adult". Progress is so quantifiable (the
| numbers go up). And the side benefits of greater fitness,
| physique, and general mental wellness are amazing.
|
| The work itself isn't easy (it can be incredibly tough!), but
| it's also not complex. You just go to the gym and put in the
| work and you will make progress.
|
| (I don't mean to say that it's simple exactly, there are
| plenty of places to make mistakes and get analysis paralysis,
| but progress can be made with extremely simple programming.
| Pick something battle tested and do the work and you almost
| can't go wrong.)
| greyhair wrote:
| I have had a pretty good life all along, but it was blips, and
| spits and starts. And stumbles all along. I just rode through
| them.
|
| I had the advantage of having no vision, no plans, when I
| graduated high school. All my friends headed off to college,
| but I had no money, had no idea what I would even study, even
| though I scored just shy of 1500 on the SAT. Learning always
| came easy for me, it still does.
|
| So having no plan, after high school, I left my job as a farm
| hand and became a motorcycle mechanic. Found my two major
| strengths there, thinking through abstract problems as
| logically as possible, and a certain base understanding of
| electrical and electronics. A result of that was I got stuck
| with all the quirky electrical faults, and most of the
| transmission work. I enjoyed both. Should I go to school for
| electical or mechanical engineering? EE won that decision
| process, and I headed off to school at 25. Not having much
| money, I settled on two years first, to nail down an Associates
| degree, then move on from there.
|
| Got great grades, got a great job offer, went to work. Took
| additional courses, but never earned a higher degree. Blundered
| along through a few failed relationships (an early relationship
| with someone that was bad for me, left scars, and it took a
| while to figure out how relationships were supposed to work).
|
| Finally met someone I could relate to at age 35. Okay? 35. I
| still was renting. I couldn't even afford my own apartment
| until I was 30. So at 35 I met the love of my life. A year
| later, we bought a house together. Two years later we married.
| Two years after that, we had our first kid. Age 40 for me.
|
| So my 30s, my life had really only just begun.
|
| So I have been coding in embedded systems now for 38 years. My
| kids are all grown and out of the house. I never worked at a
| FAANG. I am not rich, but the women I met, fell in love with,
| and married, had similar financial goals, so we have saved
| enough money to retire by time I turn 68. Very small house, we
| drive cars into the ground (never less than twelve years, my
| car is now 16 years old). So we have money to do the things we
| want. Travel and skiing being two of the top things. We raised
| three kids. Put them through college with no debt (not Ivy
| league, but no one needs Ivy League for the first four years,
| that is some heavy vanity BS right there)
|
| Your career is not the end point of your Dreams, enjoyment is.
| Your hobbies should be something you enjoy that don't break the
| bank. You should constrain your costs on anything the doesn't
| deeply matter to you so that you can afford the things that do.
|
| I will leave you with one huge final important note.
|
| The things you 'do' in life are much more important than the
| things you have. Do not focus on 'having'. Focus on 'doing'.
|
| I am a relatively old man now. I am still working because of
| two things, both related to me doing everything late in life. I
| started my career late, and I had kids late. I don't mind that
| I am going to work until I am 68 or maybe 70 years old. I am
| doing things, and I am enjoying the things I do.
| guynamedloren wrote:
| Thank you for sharing. Beautifully said.
| jeffreygoesto wrote:
| Try to love yourself and enjoy some moments while they are
| there. Your expectations come to quite some part from the
| society trying to make you function. Don't let them get you
| down too much. Go outside on a sunny day, stop, look, close
| your eyes and like something you saw, or just the air you
| breathe. There are more people that have cheerful moments
| because you are there than you think right now.
| leetrout wrote:
| I am not being trite:
|
| Thats the point! There is no single point except to exist and
| from that to try to exist peacefully with your fellow people.
|
| You are right, we are here briefly. No different than a flower
| blooming for a time. Whats the point to blooming just to die?
| Thats the point.
|
| As alan watts said... the journey itself is the point.
| askonomm wrote:
| What you wrote reminded me of this extremely powerful (to me
| at least) bit by Jim Carrey on the latest The Weeknd album
| (which is about being in a state purgatory):
| Heaven's for those who let go of regret And you have to
| wait here when you're not all there yet And if
| your broken heart's heavy when you step on the scale
| You'll be lighter than air when they pull back the veil
| Consider the flowers, they don't try to look right They
| just open their petals and turn to the light
| leetrout wrote:
| Thats great. Thanks for sharing.
| chasd00 wrote:
| "exist peacefully with your fellow people" is great but first
| try to exist peacefully with yourself.
| leetrout wrote:
| Truth. Have to love yourself. This takes some work.
| huzaif wrote:
| What works for me is "accepting myself".
|
| Accepting myself meant accepting the universe. Even the
| parts I hated. The suffering. I didn't have to love it
| all, I just had to accept the balance.
|
| This has helped me be at peace. Once I am at peace, I can
| be creative.
| jchanimal wrote:
| If you aren't feeling motivated to add structure to plans, this
| helped me https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html
| croutonwagon wrote:
| I learned at a relatively young age some of these realizations.
| And realized the biggest thing is WHO you have in your life.
| Family, children etc. That we arent ancient egyptions and
| things like cars and boats dont come with us in the afterlife
| (figuratively). And that a company will cut you as soon as it
| benefits them and is expediant, that no one is going to write
| "he was a good worker" on my gravestone. It does seem many have
| had that realization in the last 2 years, but I had it in my
| early 20's when my father passed relatively young.
|
| And so over the years i have moved up, realized some goals.
| Manage a department, lead a team or two, still get to work in
| weeds etc, but have direct influence on budget, organizational
| decisions etc (at least to this point). And i make a solid
| salary and frankly the I could do much of this in a much more
| efficient fashion, and many of my decisions these days are more
| based in "am I setting a good example".
|
| That said, it can still be hard to maintain that focus. During
| this "great resignation" i have faced an internal battle with
| the realization i CAN earn more, but whether that will come as
| a cost of being sacrificial to the other ancillary benefits..
|
| Frankly it can be hard to rectify and sometimes i feel my
| spouse takes advantage of it. For example its known (at least
| internally) that family trumps work in almost every instance.
| That I will not miss my kids...halloween, gradauation, whatever
| for some on call BS. But that has come to also mean that I get
| leaned on when a kid is sick, or theres some scheduling thing.
| And sure i can make it work. Heck I can probably even get away
| with it without much political cost, but that's sometimes not
| the point.
|
| I also fight with considering offers or "advice" that i should
| jump ship and move to xyz. I could double salary etc. But does
| that mean i double benefits if i pay more for insurance or get
| less days off or am expected to be plugged in or more
| responsive?
|
| Finally, I still have that internal drive. Lately i constantly
| find myself still trying to map out the next "steps". Do I move
| further into management? Its not as rewarding for me but the
| people I have managed seem to have established a pattern of
| loyalty and trust despite the environment. And the possibility
| of again having more "freedom" and the ability to drive
| organization direction and choices would be really nice. I'm in
| a spot where i have some say, and even some influence, but
| would more be better? How do i get there, or recognize an open
| door or oppurtunity.
|
| Frankly i find much of it exhausting, just like i have come to
| find people and politics pretty exhausting lately.
| randomsearch wrote:
| > What's the point of it?
|
| Live for others.
|
| You (and I) are incredibly fortunate. We have our basic needs
| taken care of. We have more than that. There are many, many,
| people in the world who have problems that you can help solve.
| That could be - spending time with a lonely elderly person,
| volunteering with the homeless, building a website for a
| charity that can't afford to pay for a great one, building a
| startup that solves a problem for people... teach someone a
| skill. It can be anything.
|
| Live to help other people. They need you. If you don't get much
| out of it - don't worry, they will. So if you're not
| particularly bothered about what you do, go help them. The
| world is full of important problems and people that need help,
| there's a vast number of things to work on that will make a
| difference to other people.
| Draiken wrote:
| It's noble, but for me it's once again... pointless.
|
| I don't have the money or power to enact any meaningful
| change. I can give my time or some money to others, but I'm
| not really fixing anything. I'm just drying ice.
|
| Maybe I'm not selfless enough? I've never tried anything like
| that, so that's at least something new. Might give it a try
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Try posting answers on stackoverflow. Ideally, not the low
| hanging fruit that takes 5 seconds to solve but the
| difficult questions most seem to avoid.
| bitexploder wrote:
| Existential crisis with a dash of nihilism. I see you have
| already gained a number suggestions. It ends up being
| pretty simple for me when I feel this setting in. Focus on
| what I enjoy and cultivate deep hobbies. Gain new skills.
| Turn off the content consumption in your life unless it is
| making you a better person. Stay curious toward the endless
| wonder that exists on this planet. You can't fix the world
| or other people.
|
| I did sell a company and make a lot of money. Does not
| change much. Did not make me feel successful or somehow
| complete as a human being.
|
| HN is a poor substitute for seeing a therapist. You are not
| alone and millions of people feel the way you do from time
| to time. If this problem feels "bigger" than you, find
| someone to talk to about it.
| altdataseller wrote:
| You might not have the power to change society or the
| world, as a whole. But you definitely can impact
| individuals. If you volunteer as a tutor for kids with
| learning disabilities for instance, I'm pretty sure you'll
| make an impact on that individual.
| fallat wrote:
| You're focusing too much on the macro and "the universe".
| You live one life; enjoy it and help others to be able to
| enjoy theirs too. Yeah, everything is pointless if you view
| your life through a cosmic lens. Is it pointless for the
| ant or bee to exist and work for its colony?
| bognition wrote:
| Is it possible you're setting your threshold for meaningful
| change to high?
|
| I have friends that have made it their life's work to get
| their city to install more bike lanes. They've been pushing
| for a decade and the city has installed a few lanes in
| particularly dangerous places. They have likely saved a
| bikers life.
|
| I have friends that volunteer at a crisis center and all
| they do is talk with people who need help. They aren't
| making big changes but are positively impacting the lives
| of people around them.
|
| There are so many meaningful ways to improve the world
| around you that don't require you to have millions of
| dollars or to go into politics.
| seanw444 wrote:
| > that don't require you to have millions of dollars or
| to go into politics.
|
| These sound like the same thing to me.
| kqr wrote:
| And if you dislike that, you can work on solving that! It
| doesn't take grand gestures. Start by reducing the level
| of plutocracy where you work, for example. People will
| remember what that feels like and bring it over to their
| political opinions.
| snikeris wrote:
| Yeah I think this is a problem with modern life. Our
| ancestors knew only of their surroundings and their
| tribe. Helping someone near you was obviously meaningful.
|
| Now the scale that our minds grapple with is infinite: We
| know we're a tiny part of an infinite universe, our tribe
| is billions of people.
|
| My solution is focus. Reduce the scale of your concern to
| where you can have an impact. You can certainly have an
| impact on the people around you. If that doesn't seem
| worthwhile, try to figure out why the people you're close
| to matter so little to you.
| sethammons wrote:
| > You can certainly have an impact on the people around
| you. If that doesn't seem worthwhile, try to figure out
| why the people you're close to matter so little to you
|
| That is very well said; I appreciated reading it
| mulhoon wrote:
| > Reduce the scale of your concern to where you can have
| an impact.
|
| Nice. That's going in my quote collection.
| pnutjam wrote:
| I teach kids this, "you might not be able to make the whole
| world better, but you can make your neighbors life better."
|
| I also heard something like, "everybody wants to help the
| world, nobody wants to help mom do dishes."
|
| Enjoy the little things and do what you can to make the
| people around you a little happier. That's the secret to a
| good life.
| swat535 wrote:
| Saint Mother Teresa of Calcutta was once asked during an
| interview how did you manage to help so many people? Her
| reply was: "I just started with one person".
|
| You don't need to look far to find someone who is hungry;
| sure many people on this orange site may not be hungry of
| food but I bet there are many who starved of love. It
| really doesn't take much to offer an ear to someone in this
| lonely day and age.
|
| Perhaps it's part of my religious background but I
| personally find that if the foundation of one's life is
| based on material things, then one is in a constant state
| of unhappiness. I come from a country that is considered
| poor but Western standards, however looking back I realize
| that the West is wealthy yet poor at the same time. Most
| are just busy worshiping money, sex, status or power. It's
| like we forgot about our humanity.
|
| So yes, you may not be able to change _the_ world but you
| can change _one_ world at a time.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I would be careful about mentioning Mother Teresa to
| anyone from Indian subcontinent.
| mvdwoord wrote:
| Mother Teresa may not be the best example here.
| screenbreakout wrote:
| Could you be more specific as to why? I'm sure you have a
| crunchy anecdote to share :-)
| selimthegrim wrote:
| She basically did the bare minimum, and let people die in
| her places because suffering would make them see Jesus.
| avgDev wrote:
| Mother Theresa has caused a lot of pain and suffering.
| She would get world class medical treatment, while people
| would be dying in severe pain in her hospice and she
| would tell them some bs about suffering making them
| great.
|
| They also had poor sanitary practices at the hospices and
| would contract HIV.
|
| She is very much NOT a saint.
|
| https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-dark-side-of-
| mot...
| godfreyantonell wrote:
| Nice comment. I am in my 50's and a sysadmin for a large
| corporation. I absolutely love helping people when I can.
| I am gifted so that I can give. When I'm gone it won't be
| long before I'm completely forgotten. That's the way it
| is. Anyone who is finding life too bleak would do well to
| seek professional help.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > When I'm gone it won't be long before I'm completely
| forgotten.
|
| _Everyone_ will be completely forgotten. I think the
| obsession with "legacy" is a fools errand. Making a
| positive impact yo those around you, big or small, _for
| the sake of it_ is a more reasonable approach, IMO.
|
| Even the most successful person will be forgotten[1]
| within a few generations.
|
| 1. Forgotten as a person, but possibly reduced to a name
| and a title without knowing eye color or personality.
| Hallucinaut wrote:
| I think we're the first generations where this won't be
| true actually. Micro-documenting your life and opinions,
| where overtly on Twitter, pseudo-anonymously here, or in
| emails and countless mobile photos and videos will add
| historical colour we can only dream of for past
| generations.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > I think we're the first generations where this won't be
| true actually
|
| The jury is still out, but I wouldn't bet against
| entropy. Cloud companies do not yet have a clear guidance
| on what to do with data belonging to deceased users, but
| if that data is not profitable, it'll likely be
| deleted[1]. Phones and NAS devices will end up in the
| attic or landfill: sure programmer-archeologists of the
| future may encounter some with partially recoverable
| files, but most of the present day data will be lost.
|
| 1. I missed a payment to a SaaS provider by a week (I was
| traveling) and irrevocably lost data. When the payments
| stop due to infirmity or death, the data will be deleted.
| corobo wrote:
| Remember to factor in a stint of isolation if you were in
| any form of lockdown
|
| Don't forget to give your social batteries a jump start if
| needed before evaluating long term goals. It's hard to care
| when you've not had your quota of social interaction filled
| in a while. Caring about stuff is a positive side effect of
| ego, and ego needs social interaction for fuel (I might be
| talking nonsense here biologically, pinch of salt)
|
| Whether this is relevant or not I wish you the best in
| finding the thing that clicks
| rsyring wrote:
| I think your definition of "meaningful" might need to be
| revisited. It seems it was forged from the perspective of a
| younger self whose understanding of what was likely or even
| possible was ungrounded.
|
| You've now adjusted somewhat to the new reality but the
| sense of what would really be valuable is stuck in the
| past. It's ok to, and even necessary, to adjust your sense
| of what's valuable and meaningful. Yes, you probably won't
| make world scale changes, but that doesn't mean the more
| ordinary things one can do to serve others is meaningless.
| It's just different meaning.
|
| There's a book, Ordinary by Michael Horton, the first two
| chapters of which were instrumental in helping me make a
| transition like this. That book is coming from a Christian
| worldview so some will object to that perspective.
| Unfortunately I don't know of anything like it from a
| secular perspective that I could recommend.
| kqr wrote:
| Others have said it but I'll say it again. You need to
| recalibrate what you think of as meaningful change.
|
| Contrary to popular belief, history was never written by
| great men.
|
| You might associate a few individuals with the great
| movements of history, but the people you know by name only
| echoed the popular opinion of their time.
|
| The real wheels of history inch forward when common people
| influence their neighbours and children to strive for
| something a little better than the status quo.
|
| Do something. Take the smallest step that is recognisably
| in the direction you want society to go.
| jebarker wrote:
| I had a similar feeling of pointlessness. For me I realized
| that that feeling stemmed from viewing myself as powerless
| and small in the face of the complexity and chaos of the
| world. How could I possibly make any meaningful change from
| where I am?
|
| I came to believe that everyone is in that same boat. Those
| we look up to as having made "meaningful" change were just
| the right people in the right place and time and had
| relatively little control over that destiny. That probably
| won't be me or you, but it definitely won't happen to
| someone that starves to death, dies from a preventable
| illness or is just fighting to survive each day. So, I came
| to believe that the greatest leverage I have for making
| change in the world is to remove barriers for as many other
| people as possible and just increase the pool of people
| that might be the right person in the right place and time
| to solve the really big problems we all face.
|
| Furthermore, spreading the idea that helping others is the
| best way to help the world can leverage a network effect.
| You might help the person that helps the person that is
| then able to solve a really big problem.
| sethammons wrote:
| > meaningful change
|
| Says who? The tad bit of encouragement you give a younger
| person could change the entire direction of their life, and
| you may never hear about it. We don't get to know all the
| ways we influence others.
| layer8 wrote:
| > > What's the point of it?
|
| > Live for others.
|
| What's the point of that? They are a blip in the universe
| just the same. Adding one level of indirection doesn't solve
| the existential problem.
| [deleted]
| falaby wrote:
| Screw the universe. People need help, and you can give it
| to them. It might not be "existential", but at least it's
| real.
| layer8 wrote:
| Living for yourself is also real. The point is that if
| one doesn't feel meaning and purpose in one's life due to
| existential awareness, then moving the focus to other
| people doesn't help with that.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| "If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. If
| you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine,
| then let us work together." - Lilla Watson
| dangerface wrote:
| > If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will.
|
| Im very selfish I get nothing out of helping others but I do
| it anyway and usually it ends up hurting the person I am
| trying to help, as the help is unwanted or the way I was
| helping was unwanted. You would think people would just be
| grateful for you trying but it turns out they are just as
| focused on themselves as myself.
|
| It seems most people don't really want help they want some
| one to boss around and they call that help. I have no
| interest in being some ones lacky for no ones benefit but
| theirs in the same way no one wants to be my lacky.
|
| Helping people is easy helping people in a way they won't
| hate you for it is very difficult.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| Man come on. This sounds like you've tried to help some
| people you care about with issues that are down to a lack
| of discipline (addiction, financial problems, etc), and
| people resented you for it.
|
| Now you're writing off all charity and volunteerism because
| of it? Get real. This is just lazy nihilism.
| andruby wrote:
| That's a very pessimistic view. I'm sorry you've had such
| experiences.
|
| Are most of those in the context of your work or also in
| the context of family, friends and neighbors?
|
| I've had mixed reactions with work, but usually good
| reactions when helping people in my social circle.
| dorkwood wrote:
| > Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish
| dreams, society or life events.
|
| I think this is your problem: you see artificial goals as a bad
| thing.
| webmaven wrote:
| Research suggests that happiness is most strongly correlated
| with having close personal relationships (aka family and
| friends, etc.).
|
| https://thriveglobal.com/stories/relationships-happiness-wel...
| daSn0wie wrote:
| The only point of life is whatever you make it. Life's your own
| video game and you set the rules of what defines winning or
| losing it. There are definitely lots of external pressure
| trying to get you to align to what their game is, but I think
| you've come to realize that those rules aren't the rules you
| want to live by.
|
| I felt the same way in my 30s. The thing that changed it for me
| was when my father passed away, my mother was diagnosed with
| dementia, and the pandemic. I started to realize that life is
| really short and it made me think a lot about what it all
| meant. I think you've also come to realize that there really is
| no point, so you can either be depressed about it and not do
| anything or you can just do things that bring you enjoyment.
| Some people find enjoyment in help others and volunteering (I
| don't) and will say that's the meaning of life. Other's will
| say finding enjoyment in the process of something is the
| meaning of life (I don't). I think it's different for everyone
| and part of life is defining the game. Everyone wants
| validation that their rules of life are the right rules.
|
| I'm in my late 40s now and I just focus on whatever I want to
| do that I enjoy - hanging out with friends, spending time with
| my family, not stressing too much about work, entertaining
| myself with my hobbies.
|
| On hobbies - I'll pick up hobbies just to try them out now. I
| have no expectations any longer. If it sticks, it sticks, if it
| doesn't, I don't care that much. I've come to realize I just
| really like to try new things, and learning the depth doesn't
| interest me. If i'm inspired to pick it up again, I do. There's
| probably some self-help/hustle porn out there that dissuades
| this, but I enjoy it.
| kirso wrote:
| Actually this is correct but something that supports this
| point is the: Cosmic insignificance therapy -
| https://tim.blog/2021/12/15/the-liberation-of-cosmic-
| insigni...
|
| In the end, everything is pointless and it can be either
| depressing or liberating.
|
| So all you described - just do the things that you feel are
| enjoyable or meaningful - it doesn't have to be a startup, it
| can be as much as caring for elderly or even running naked in
| the forrest, whatever it is.
| paulmd wrote:
| > Cosmic insignificance therapy
|
| Heh, reminds me of the Total Perspective Vortex.
|
| https://sites.google.com/site/h2g2theguide/Index/t/114333
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJuv6qL_HA
| palijer wrote:
| I used to feel a bunch of that same pointlessness, and I still
| do sometimes, but a novel helped me frame what I was feeling.
| Stoner (1965), by John Williams. It is not about drug use.
|
| It essentially covers the life of an assistant lit professor
| born in 1891 that ended up not living up to his expectations in
| all areas of life and how he handles them internally. It really
| helped me draw meaning from my life again while I see friends
| have their money making them money and fly upwards in their
| careers and build their families.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_(novel)
| openknot wrote:
| Stoner is one of the best novels I've ever read. He dedicates
| almost his entire life toward studying literature because he
| had a passion for it in university, despite never achieving
| resounding success (not a spoiler, as this is revealed on the
| first page of the novel).
|
| There are wonderful passages like: "In his extreme youth
| Stoner had thought of love as an absolute state of being to
| which, if one were lucky, one might find access; in his
| maturity he had decided it was the heaven of a false
| religion, toward which one ought to gaze with an amused
| disbelief, a gently familiar contempt, and an embarrassed
| nostalgia. Now in his middle age he began to know that it was
| neither a state of grace nor an illusion; he saw it as a
| human act of becoming, a condition that was invented and
| modified moment by moment and day by day, by the will and the
| intelligence and the heart.""
|
| It changed my view on love and relationships.
| Loughla wrote:
| I would add The Razor's Edge by W. Somerset Maugham to this
| list as well.
|
| The problem with 'living up to your expectations' is that too
| often it's about material goods that are _unbelievably
| fleeting and temporary_. This book, followed through to the
| end, really helps focus in on that.
|
| It was given to me by my dissertation chair during post-grad
| work. He was attempting to point me to the fact that life
| doesn't have to be hustle and bustle and break-neck for
| money. I took it to mean that he thought I should quit school
| and go back to the farm. There's a lesson in there about
| clear communication, I think.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Razor%27s_Edge
| bgilroy26 wrote:
| Have you ever read the book of Ecclesiastes?
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| There is no meaning in life except what you make of it.
|
| You can argue those goals are just external influences that got
| imprinted in you in a period of your life in which you were
| prone to start dreaming.
|
| Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue?
|
| Do what makes you happy, do what you can look back and say
| "that was cool", write a book you would read with your life
| actions.
| Draiken wrote:
| > Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue?
|
| I think that's the problem I tried to describe: I don't have
| any.
|
| It seems everyone has goals that they put aside for one
| reason or another. I achieved the majority of the goals I
| had, dropped some that made no sense and now there's no path
| set out anymore. I don't feel I should pursue anything.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > I don't feel I should pursue anything.
|
| Then don't. I also think it is all meaningless, a blip of
| order in a system of chaos that "we" exist and "we" are
| able to think about it.
|
| Play the game, do not play the game, it does not make a
| difference unless you want to think it makes a difference.
| I have little kids, and I am not in any pain, so I like
| playing the game and seeing what I can do to provide for
| their future security.
|
| Maybe I would not if I was in much worse circumstances,
| such as super sick or economically disadvantaged.
| vikingerik wrote:
| Your story sounds a lot like mine. I earn good enough money at
| a laid-back employer, and don't have the drive to job-hop or
| leetcode into a FAANG, or to do some big open-source software
| project or anything else like that.
|
| I focus on hobbies. What works for me is to keep the hobbies to
| myself - don't let it become competitive relative to others.
| That's a trap you'll never win, as you'll always be comparing
| to the best and not to any kind of average or typical
| performance.
|
| Here's a number of concrete examples. I like Rubik's cube
| puzzles, but what I do with them is get new puzzles of
| different shapes and figure out ways to solve them. I
| deliberately don't get involved in speed-cubing or such
| competitions.
|
| I like juggling, but I don't try to do any shows or
| competitions or anything; what I do is invent and learning new
| patterns and tricks for myself.
|
| I learned to sew, to make costumes for conventions; but what I
| do is walk around to interact with and entertain people; I
| don't try to compete in shows or for prizes or anything.
|
| I play board games, pinball, sports like bowling and ultimate
| frisbee; but always on a very casual recreational level and not
| in any kind of organized league or competition. What's
| important with these isn't the activity itself, it's the human
| interaction.
|
| You can find a lot of value in hobbies like these in a range of
| 20 to 200 hours invested rather than 2000. The key is to find
| self-satisfaction in bettering your own skills; don't try to
| compare to the self-selected best lifelong obsessives.
| kinnth wrote:
| Well that was quite apt. I just turned 36 today and a lot of it
| resonates. Perhaps the more you learn, the more pressure you put
| on yourself to perform. Most of those people who he quotes
| probably thought a lot less but ended up doing a lot more.
|
| Say yes to more things, don't conform and never regret.
| JetAlone wrote:
| When I was a teenager, I saw the stories of exceptionally strange
| internet personalities like Chris Chan and Ulillillia, and felt a
| paranoia that I'd spend my life in my overprotective parents'
| basement. When I look at my life, I've accomplished so many
| things I never would have expected I could have. I'm still
| missing a handful of things my community members remind me they
| expect me to have, the biggest one being marriage. In spite of
| needing to slog through tiredness and bouts of ressentiment, I
| can see I've beaten the average trajectory, and I've beaten the
| trajectories some people have put me down by saying I'll end up
| on. I actually have a slight chance of doing one or two more
| things in life that mean a lot to me. I am grateful I've been
| lead out of the basement, spared from literal prison; not
| hospitalized nor shut into an asylum (though some dear readers
| may think I belong there ;P). The world's a disturbing place, but
| I'm on a road to freedom and joy.
|
| https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
| sussexby wrote:
| This resonates somewhat as I turned 35... today.
|
| I thought I would have accomplished a lot more but I also:
|
| - fail to recognise my accomplishments to-date
|
| - cross-compare with others around me (even if they're not in the
| same situation)
|
| - have to recognise the variability created by choosing to have
| others in my life (spouse, children)
|
| I reel when I think about some of my decisions - e.g. not buying
| a home for my family and continuing to rent but I have to accept
| that some of that is not all my fault - housing is increasingly
| expensive and I've not been blessed with the same 5-figure
| deposit contribution from family that my friends have had. I also
| need to recognise the concept of home ownership is an ideal
| informed from the previous generation and may or may not be as
| relevant today.
|
| I do resent the increasing encroachment of work into the home.
| The delineation between home and work today is tiny and it
| becomes very difficult to maintain separation between personal /
| family / work. This becomes especially hard when work
| expectations ramp up and how we're all international now. At
| times I've felt like a vessel for family and work duties with no
| time left in the calendar for personal pursuit.
|
| When it's difficult to nurture your personal self and develop
| that internal satisfaction and success, I feel we try to seek
| that same satisfaction/success in the other domains of family and
| work which monopolise our calendar and as such look at the
| measures of success there (a nice car, a decent career, a lofty
| job title, great family holidays, etc...).
| black_13 wrote:
| djaychela wrote:
| I was expecting to resonate more with this article, but found
| that the writer really hadn't been doing much.
|
| I often complain to my girlfriend that I've got nothing done, and
| then she asks what I've done... and it turns out I've actually
| done a lot. I'm currently splitting my days between regular
| contract work producing videos (first two hours of the day,
| 7am-9am), and then after a short break I spend the rest of the
| day (until 6pm, with an hour for lunch) working on my house
| extension. Today I'll be doing more of the roof (weather
| permitting), or putting in central heating pipes.
|
| Then, after dinner, I'll be working on YouTube content.
|
| But still, I've done nothing, in my mind... because I expected to
| have the extension finished by now (I'm 9 months in, and about 6
| months behind, mostly due to external delays).
|
| I'm 50. I did expect to be much more successful than I am - I'm
| not in the slightest, financially. I never expected to be a
| millionaire, but I'm below average earnings in the UK. But I'm
| (mostly) happy, and I think that's what matters. I hope so,
| anyway!
| robertlagrant wrote:
| If you can DIY things that would cost someone else tens of
| thousands of PSs/$s then imagine how much you'd need to earn to
| get that money after tax, and then add that total amount to
| your salary. That's the equivalent of what you're earning.
|
| One reason why I don't like using salary as a comparison is it
| doesn't reflect people's life circumstances, except at the
| extremes. It's just easy to measure.
|
| And good luck with the roof!
| jakupovic wrote:
| Keep on trucking and like someone else said find pleasure in
| the process. Deadlines are arbitrary and most of the time
| meaningless.
| idontwantthis wrote:
| Below average while working only 2 hours per day or below
| average per hour?
| swayvil wrote:
| Imagine that you're trapped in the matrix. A dream where all
| projects, even the most impressive, are just videogames and dust.
|
| The only worthwhile achievements would be to become aware of your
| predicament and to escape the matrix.
|
| And any worthwhile pursuit other than that is just a deeper kind
| of trap. Distracting you while the clock ticks away.
| alkonaut wrote:
| Isn't life merely thinking you'll accomplish something big in the
| future when you are young (from by a bias that shows people
| accomplishing grand things more than others), and then basiclaly
| being too busy just living for a couple of decades, and finally
| accepting that merely living is accomplishment enough?
|
| This panic over accomplishment must be a cultural phenomenon. I
| can't relate. Is there a wide group of people who are in panic
| over that their life might end up being merely "lived" without
| companies founded, books published, mountains climbed?
| hans1729 wrote:
| >This panic over accomplishment must be a cultural phenomenon.
|
| Economic pressure. Look at the housing market and the dystopian
| reality of our political processes, social divide, etc. -- TONS
| of people feel like they need to become free by means of
| economic accomplishments. This is even more so the case in
| countries without universal healthcare etc.
|
| It's coming down to Maslow. If you work in tech, chances are
| you're smart enough to have and smell opportunities. People who
| don't have that opportunity because they are occupied with
| family or day-to-day-jobs can be content with less, just
| because there is no material dream to pursuit, or because they
| have other intrinsic goals (art, social connections [...]). The
| rat race we're forced into drives people mad, and we can't
| really blame the people. It takes a lot of mental progress to
| dig yourself out of that. Highly (!) intelligent people, think
| the top 1% of the chart, may be otherwise occupied, for example
| by the drive to contribute to scientific progress, but the top
| ~10-2% (I'm just throwing numbers here) feel trapped in
| material pressure and forced to "make it", where "it" isn't an
| actual target other than economic freedom.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| To me, it sounds like the author tried to be everything to
| everyone. That's a recipe for disaster.
|
| If I had to give advice to my younger self now, I'd probably go
| with:
|
| 1. Celebrate your science reading habit, instead of awkwardly
| apologizing that you like mathematics. 1 paper a week might seem
| like it'll get you nowhere, but in 20 years, that compounds to
| in-depth knowledge of the field. It'll pay off, but on a time
| scale you and your peers don't understand yet.
|
| 2. Don't compare to Gates, Zuckerberg, or Elon. The 1st had
| resources you'll never have because of his rich parents. The 2nd
| is now universally hated as a sicko psychopath whose products
| drive teens into suicide. The 3rd can't seem to keep a stable
| enough relationship to have a family. You'd hate being in their
| shoes.
|
| 3. Get more comfortable saying no. People are going to ask you
| for favors all the time, but your time is very limited. Only help
| friends or those where you predict they'll reciprocate. Make
| people get their own hands dirty first, it'll help them learn.
| Stay away from "energy vampires" who ask for your help for
| everything but won't help you back.
| holtkam2 wrote:
| The ironic thing about this post is that the author sounds like
| an awesome dude. Heck, I just read his work in the New Yorker. I
| wish he could realize he was killing it! And same goes for you,
| dear reader :)
| pkaye wrote:
| Turns out we are a NPC, not the main character.
| nkotov wrote:
| I know it's cliche to say but for me, I was always driven by
| personal fulfillment. My definition of personal fulfillment
| changed almost every year since I was 20.
|
| At 20, I wanted to be a VP at a company by 25. At 21, I wanted
| and then bought a motorcycle and then later crashed on it. At 22,
| I wanted to and got to work for a startup. At 23, I got married
| and got to six figure salary and was hoping to buy a house. At
| 24, I bought a house, got a dog, and wanted to start a company.
| At 25, we had a kid and I started a company. At 26, I wanted and
| got into YC. At 27, I pivoted the company and we ran out of
| runway. I'm turning 28 in a couple of weeks and decided to slow
| things down for a couple of months but ended up accepting a
| cofounding offer to build something else.
|
| Every year brought many sad and happy days. There were slow days
| where I felt I was wasting my life away and there were many
| fulfilling days where I felt like I accomplished a lot. I really
| believe that life is what you make it. Having dreams is fine but
| unless you're working towards them every single day, they will
| remain as dreams.
| perlgeek wrote:
| I can't help but add my favorite Tom Lehrer quote:
|
| "It is a sobering thought that when Mozart was my age, he had
| been dead for two years."
| eixiepia wrote:
| The problem with many people today, is that their only measure of
| success is whether they are a success in the eyes of others,
| often strangers or people they don't even care about.
|
| Find out what you really want, don't care what others think. This
| way it's much more realistic to have success, and you will
| probably also be much happier. I don't think many would want to
| be a CEO if they didn't care what others think.
| bigpeopleareold wrote:
| This plagued me for a long time. It felt like the only way to
| validate my value is based on what someone else said about it.
| However, what really happened was that relationships are
| fleeting, attention from others tends to be weak and a lot of
| the time, no one really does care. Also, I overemphasized
| process, that certain things must be done in a certain way for
| them to have a certain truth to it. It is and was crippling.
|
| One thing that changed for me last year was that I finally got
| the passion to get through that list of random topics I wanted
| to get through without the pretense of trying to prove anything
| to anyone. It really did work, even though the feeling towards
| those pretenses still linger a bit.
|
| Here on HN, there was once something that stuck along with me,
| on an article about how people found success in one-person
| companies. One said that he did what he needed to do and then
| just find what could be sold from that. It's a simple
| statement, but what it says lacks that pretense of finding the
| truth in something, like finding success in other people or
| even unattainable quality of work.
| cmollis wrote:
| I really only stopped caring what people thought after I got
| divorced (I was 43 at the time). Before that, it was 'the big
| house', 'the bmw', 'running the cool business'.. ostensibly,
| showing off to everyone else how impressive I could be (I
| wasn't). I felt like a fraud because I hated what I was doing.
| Others still had more money, a bigger house, and a cooler car.
| It was an arms race and I was losing. But when all of that was
| stripped away after the divorce, it was again, just me.. along
| with my three young kids in my two bedroom apartment. I
| realized that all of that was stupid, and really didn't
| contribute anything to who I really was. I was forced to do
| only what was absolutely necessary.. to stop being selfish and
| focus on my kids and rebuilding my life. Although I was
| struggling, it was liberating. Now I could regain what I lost:
| money, sure..I was always pretty good at my job, but mostly my
| humility. I didn't come from much, which I used to wear as a
| badge of honor when I was younger. Losing a lot of 'stuff' made
| stop caring about where I lived, or what I drove. I could just
| simply 'focus' on what I personally felt was important, not
| someone else's arbitrary standard. Now I drive around my
| neighborhood (in my 12 year old honda) looking at all the late
| 30-40 year olds racing inexorably towards their collective mid-
| life crises, doing their home improvements, driving their
| Teslas that they can't afford, berating their kids because
| they're not impeccably perfect in every way and I think to
| myself : 'yeah, I know.. it's coming for you too'..
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >The problem with many people today, is that their only measure
| of success is whether they are a success in the eyes of others,
| often strangers or people they don't even care about.
|
| I think the real problem is the pool of people they can compare
| themselves to is so much larger. No matter what your interests,
| vocation or career it's easy to find someone on social media
| who appears to be an order of magnitude better than you are.
| Anthony-G wrote:
| Mark Kozelek beautifully expressed a more melancholic version of
| this sentiment in _24_ , the first track of Red House Painters'
| first album: https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=i0-FA_svTKg
|
| In the song, he acknowledges his lack of accomplishments as he
| gets older. There's ambiguity as to whether he's more regretful
| that he never achieved the heights that his younger self
| envisioned - or if he's coming to accept this. While he wrote the
| song in his early twenties, I guess this is a sentiment we can
| all relate to: there's always some age-related milestone looming
| ahead of us.
| withinboredom wrote:
| I think that pretty much everyone feels this when they reach a
| certain age and it doesn't really matter what you've
| accomplished. I think humans just have an innate desire to have
| more.
| warner25 wrote:
| Yeah, I think it's just "moving the goalposts" or the
| "hedonistic treadmill" or "comparison is the thief of joy."
| When I turned 34, I made a list of (fairly attainable but
| significant) things that I wanted to accomplish before turning
| 35 last year. I mostly did those things, and I know that I
| objectively have more to my name than most of humanity at this
| age, and I'm in a better place than I imagined being at 20, 25,
| or 30... college degrees, seniority in my career, married,
| kids, 7-figure net worth, still healthy and fit... but it just
| doesn't _feel_ like it. I mostly just notice the people who
| have accomplished more, or have a nicer house, or have more
| time to do what they want, or have a better family situation in
| some way.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _My artistic motto is "Always write five hundred words before
| noon."_
|
| Maybe if the author haven't started with such hand-me-down,
| derivative, cliche, "artistic motto" he'd have done better...
| moonchrome wrote:
| So either the author has a midlife crisis or they genuinely hate
| where they are in life. TBH, since they have no family/commitment
| and sound like they dislike where they got in life - I'd say
| discard the image of yourself and start doing radical things
| moving forward, sounds like a no lose situation to me, worst case
| scenario you die doing something risky - but that always sounded
| better to me than surviving in a hole.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| The author seems to on the one hand have a lot of ambitions,
| but on the other a case of ADHD (or modern-day tech-caused
| attention deficit) where they end up hyperfocused down a rabbit
| hole on a regular basis. I have no answers for that, because
| even medication probably won't make people focus on their mid-
| to long-term goals. That said, being a New Yorker writer,
| theater troupe, and all the other things they mentioned,
| they're probably fairly successful in their life beyond the
| lofty goals they've set themselves. Which may not be their true
| calling actually, but more of a "this is what people I look up
| to have done".
| giantg2 wrote:
| Not having a family sounds like a good thing for them. They
| mention neve having lived in Morroco. Since they're single,
| they could just drop everything and go do something like that.
| That wouldn't really be possible with a family.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| It's what we might call "self-observational humor" or poking
| fun at one's self. It came out a couple of years ago and I had
| a good chuckle when I read it.
| bmitc wrote:
| Just to note, this piece is in the humor section. Like most
| humor, it's likely a constructed story based on real events or
| feelings. And also like most humor, it's relatable. I think
| your advice to move forward is still relevant though.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I didn't find it funny nor was it that relatable. I'm
| actually wondering why it's even on HN in the first place and
| not flagged.
| elvongray wrote:
| Not finding it funny doesn't mean some people here wouldn't
| giantg2 wrote:
| True. My understanding is that comedy isn't really
| allowed here, unless maybe it is tech focused. This isn't
| some new phenomenon, this isn't tech focused, there isn't
| really any content in the article (not much to be gleaned
| from the satire even). It doesn't seem like it's
| something that's even interesting to hackers. There
| doesn't seem to be enough content to satisfy intellectual
| curiosity.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| The title is also obviously supposed to be funny.
| bmitc wrote:
| I actually thought it was a serious article at first, as it
| resonated pretty strongly with me. Haha. But then I
| definitely got a satire feel from reading it.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I don't have this problem. I feel like I've achieved loads. I
| just don't see the point of any of it and it doesn't make me
| happy. I've spent my life working hard and now I can look forward
| to my body and mind deteriorating in a world with not a soul who
| cares about me.
| imtringued wrote:
| It could be worse, for example, you could be thinking those
| very same thoughts at an even younger age, before you even
| accomplished the things you set out to do.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| tl;dr I imagined a story with myself as the main character, and
| now I'm disappointed because the story is not real
| motohagiography wrote:
| Related to his conclusion: in one of the areas I train in, there
| is a famous saying where celebrating achievements is just
| admitting and accepting your level of mediocrity. Somewhere along
| the way I acquired a voice that asks, "Was that your level? Was
| that your price?" It's kind, but knows there's more.
|
| I do a lot of things, but have learned to achieve nothing. The
| high points I had where I got some fame and recognition are
| mostly embarassing now, because they remind me of my conceits
| that get in the way of ideals I intend to spend a lifetime
| pursuing. Looking back on the thing you were famous for, was it
| your best? Does it define you today? Have you left your peak
| behind and you are less now than you were then? Probably not. To
| me achievements mean nothing unless they were humbling and
| converted ignorance into appreciation and humility. It's a tough
| way to be, but it yields a pretty interesting journey.
|
| Sure, I have breakthrough moments. Getting code to work, getting
| a new piece of music under my fingers, winning a contract or
| solving a problem, forgiving the person I was who believed things
| I don't anymore, etc. But I've found expereriences are
| meaningless unless there is a way to share them to improve the
| lives of others, even if it's just to make them laugh, or perhaps
| to serve as a warning, often at the same time. Life isn't in your
| future and the reflected glory of your achievements, it's now,
| and you need to breathe it all in and exhale it, over and over
| again until you can't. I hope the author gets the opportunity to
| laugh at himself for thinking that his achievement of writing
| this for New Yorker was the best he could do. I'm pretty sure
| he's got so much more:)
| thenerdhead wrote:
| I just wrote a whole book on this topic coming out soon. I had a
| similar crisis at 29 last year going into 30.
|
| As a former overachiever and perfectionist, I gave myself till 30
| when I was 18 writing down goals for some life accomplishments
| like:
|
| - Get a Master's degree by 30
|
| - Build a successful company by 30
|
| - Be financially independent by 30
|
| - Get married and have kids by 30
|
| Needless to say, I accomplished only one of these things. I have
| a beautiful family I wouldn't trade the world for. But the
| others? Failure.
|
| I lived my life with the social conditioning of the modern world
| that I lost my sense of happiness. I looked to others to define
| my path of value and purpose. I kept losing myself to shoulds.
|
| What I didn't realize was that I was on my own path of fully
| expressing myself. I had to turn my attention back inward. I was
| the only person on this hero's journey to find happiness.
|
| Now I'm content with what I've done by 30.
| IMTDb wrote:
| I am always quite surprised to see these as being labeled
| "overachiever" goals (they are pretty commonly expressed
| similarly).
|
| Being an "overachiever" means : benefiting from the work of
| others (food, clothes, transports, ...) for roughly 23 years
| (time it takes to complete a master degree), then contributing
| to society for roughly 7 years (until the "successful company
| is built) by working extremely and then benefiting from the
| work of other for 60 more years (assuming death at 90) once
| financial independence is reached.
|
| This is absolutely not sustainable for society as a whole, if
| more people managed to do that, mankind would _not_ be better
| off. The fact that you have been able to complete your last
| goal, and that you are still contributing to society in a
| meaningful way, hopefully for many years to come is a much
| better outcome for everyone than if these self imposed goals
| had been reached. And the fact that you are content with your
| achievements so far a reflection of that.
|
| You are absolutely succeeding at life, and you actually have
| overachieved those goals.
| caffeine wrote:
| I managed to read the first two paragraphs before being quite
| certain the rest would be a waste of time.
|
| As far as I can tell (not a psychiatrist), this individual is
| suffering from mental illness and could benefit greatly from
| cognitive behavioural therapy.
|
| I hope he gets better soon.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| What! Did you fail to set "S.M.A.R.T. goals" for yourself in your
| personal life? :-)
|
| If it _really_ mattered to you, you would have done it no matter
| what, but you got distracted by other things in life. That's OK.
| There is no HR department for your job as a human being. You
| don't have to rate yourself on a scale of 1 to whatever.
|
| If someone assigns their worth in life by material things or
| external measures, they will NEVER have enough. There will always
| be "unchecked boxes" that will override any satisfaction for the
| "checked boxes".
| onion2k wrote:
| _I had six voice mails_
|
| This is what I would consider a significant measure of success -
| people wanting to talk to you (assuming they're actual messages,
| and not robocall spam). Whether they're from friends who want to
| chat, contacts who want to work with you, or just random updates
| about interesting things that _for some reason_ someone thinks
| you should know about, having people out there think about you
| enough to fire up the dialler on their phone and try to reach you
| is pretty cool. There are so many other things they could be
| thinking about.
| OgAstorga wrote:
| Plot twist. Those are from debt collectors
| rkagerer wrote:
| The beginning of the article mentions a few examples of
| distractions. So much of the modern web is developed by people
| who've made a scientific study out of gaming your emotions and
| vying for your attention.
|
| Focus is a priceless resource.
|
| When I need to put my head down and concentrate, I try to shut
| off distractions. Like many developers I know, sometimes it means
| I gravitate to working late at night when the rest of the world
| leaves me alone.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| > So much of the modern web is developed by people who've made
| a scientific study out of gaming your emotions and vying for
| your attention.
|
| I just figured it was an evolutionary (sort of Darwinian) march
| to where we are now. Throw enough stuff at the wall and you'll
| quickly find what sticks.
|
| But to be sure, when I saw I was wasting away flipping through
| the 100 or so cable TV channels (around about the year 1999 or
| so) I cut the cord.
|
| Of course, the web was not nearly as intoxicating then. I have
| the new cord around my neck now.
| sharadov wrote:
| What a dreary, depressing article. Sorry dude, life happened
| while you were waiting..
| Tade0 wrote:
| I dropped such worries when I was 25 and started working for a
| startup, the founders of which were roughly my age for the most
| part(only the CEO was 34, which happens to be approximately my
| age at the moment). Eventually they built a successful company
| employing hundreds of people.
|
| Since then I started measuring my success by comparing to my past
| self - I think it's healthier that way.
|
| I've also found that it's a lot like breathing - you need to,
| ahem, "exhale" from time to time - take up a less ambitious role
| just so that you can focus on other aspects of life.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I've done that; after the first year, I had to go from 36 to 40
| hours because cost of living was increasing while wages
| stagnated (due to covid). This year I've decided to move on,
| because the company itself is stagnant and yes, cost of living
| is increasing.
|
| That said, with the latter point, me and my girlfriend have
| long-term goals of moving someplace bigger and more out of the
| way, which is a nice goal to have. Staying at my current
| employer would have been stable, but ultimately stagnant and
| ungratifying.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Since then I started measuring my success by comparing to my
| past self - I think it's healthier that way."
|
| That's certainly better than the one the author is using.
| Current day me would still fail though - I've made no progress
| and my opportunities/abilities are slipping away.
| jl6 wrote:
| Our amazing global technology allows us to compare ourselves with
| almost every other human being. We spot someone who's a better
| programmer, another who's a better athlete, another with a bigger
| family... and soon we start to feel inadequate across a multitude
| of dimensions which all start to flatten into a single dimension
| of worthiness.
|
| We have invented the total perspective vortex.
| medymed wrote:
| It's maybe not uncommon to have dissonance between enjoying an
| accomplishment versus enjoying or finding meaning doing the tasks
| that lead to the result/accomplishment. This is one very
| scatterbrained outlier of that dissonance.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| Poor bastard.
|
| I think a lot of older people really don't understand this, but
| our generation (late millennials, or at least middle-class late
| millennials) were genuinely fed the lie our whole life that we
| were special and could do anything.
|
| At some point, you have to admit to yourself that you're just an
| ordinary human being and Elon Musk has something special that you
| don't have.
|
| Only when you're in this mindset can you reason about your own
| limits, what you can achieve and discover that you're actually a
| pretty decent dishwasher technician.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >Elon Musk has something special that you don't have
|
| Yeah, and I don't want it. Even he admitted it's not good being
| himself.
| kochikame wrote:
| Elon Musk was born privileged and is probably wrong about a
| whole bunch of things.
|
| I don't think it's an appropriate or useful point of
| comaprison.
| dagw wrote:
| _Elon Musk was born privileged_
|
| Only relatively speaking. There are a whole lot of people
| grew up with a hell of a lot more "privilege" than Musk and
| who have accomplished far far less.
| supermatt wrote:
| And theres even more less privileged who cant take a risk
| because they dont have anything to catch them when they
| fail.
| dagw wrote:
| Of course. As someone who ticks most boxes on the
| privilege checklist I can witness first hand how much
| easier that has made my life compared to several of my
| friends and colleagues who ticked far fewer boxes. At the
| same time I've known people from even more privileged
| backgrounds than me completely fuck their lives.
|
| So while coming from a 'privileged' background is
| important, and perhaps even necessary, in becoming the
| next Elon Musk, it is far from the determining factor.
| htlion wrote:
| As Bourdieu presents it, there are the economic, social
| and cultural capitals from your parents. I believe more
| and more that the social and cultural capitals can vary
| wildly even among seemingly privileged families. We can
| only gauge the economic capital from the outside after
| all. I saw it firsthand where rich parents educated their
| children way too softly, which made their children unable
| to cope with challenges of real life. Maybe Elon got the
| luck to be born in a family with very good capitals on
| all axes. It does not mean that he has no talent, just
| that his initialization may have been particularly good.
| friendzis wrote:
| > and perhaps even necessary
|
| > is far from the determining factor.
|
| Pick one. There is a reason why low class kids are
| heavily underrepresented and high class privileged kids
| are highly overrepresented among VC-backed founders.
| dagw wrote:
| You must be at least 'this' privileged to succeed.
| However there are a lot of people that are at least that
| privileged and most don't "succeed" either. And among
| that cohort predicting their chance of success cannot be
| done by simply looking at their relative level of
| privilege.
|
| Also I feel like you just moved the goal for success.
| Getting 1 round of VC funding for your startup and
| getting your startup into the Fortune 500 or two wildly
| different levels of success.
|
| If we're defining success as "1 round of VC funding for
| your startup" then, yes, I will happily concede the
| 'privilege' plays a much larger role.
| AndrewThrowaway wrote:
| One could argue that Musk's achievements are nagative net
| sum to human race.
|
| Better car? With all this money and influence personalities
| like that could shape for much better future - livable,
| walkable cities, public transport, social guarantees.
|
| Private cars in private tunnels for the rich? Is this what
| we call "achievement"? "There will be no traffic jams in LA
| because I will be riging my car in private tunnel"?
|
| Rocket's are super cool. Then again a lot of people would
| argue that instead of aiming for the Mars we should aim to
| fix Eath's problems - climate, pollution etc.
|
| Depending on how you look, Musk is actually who
| accomplished far far less. Just made the world better for
| individualist rich men not much more. Growing up rich and
| just spending inherited money on expensive stuff might be
| better for the human race in the end.
| imtringued wrote:
| >Private cars in private tunnels for the rich? Is this
| what we call "achievement"? "There will be no traffic
| jams in LA because I will be riging my car in private
| tunnel"?
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/rxduxn/el
| on_...
|
| It's kind of amusing how Elon Musk has to discover the
| car problem his own way. The tunnel is basically only
| lacking rails and an appropriately sized tram. Maybe he
| will catch on?
| harvey9 wrote:
| I read the comment above yours as implying the inherited
| wealth being one of the things that Musk has and most people
| don't. Might just be my own bias 'reading in'.
| dr_hooo wrote:
| Doesn't matter in this context though: > has something
| special that you don't have
|
| OP's point is that it's not solely up to you to just "do
| anything".
| vorhemus wrote:
| > Elon Musk has something special that you don't have
|
| I believe that there are many Elon Musks in the world but due
| to various circumstances (born in the wrong place at the wrong
| time, bad luck, terrible parents) they never get the chance to
| shine.
| VoodooJuJu wrote:
| >Elon Musk has something special that you don't have
|
| I think this kind of determinism is not only wrong, but
| damaging, should you choose to believe it, especially when it's
| used as a failure coping mechanism, because then it ultimately
| leads to forfeit, which removes any chance you may have had.
|
| >He is successful. Therefore, it must be the case that he is
| able to bend The Laws Of The Universe. It is certainly not the
| case that Good Fortune and social effects were the major
| factors in his success.
|
| Even if it were true, I'm not sure why one would want to
| believe that. At least fool yourself into believing either: (1)
| you're also special, and success can also come to you through
| your own "specialness" (2) no one is special, and success comes
| from tenacity and luck. What do you lose from believing either
| of these two things?
| another_devy wrote:
| > you have to admit to yourself that you're just an ordinary
| human being
|
| This sort of thinking comes from place when you see that to
| achieve anything ahead in your life you need different skill
| set than you got and also most of time influence over people. I
| myself am victim of this thinking, it seems rational but it is
| demotivating.
|
| What I found comforting in this thought chain is there may be
| limited possibilities that really can happen for me but can I
| find the best one of them, if I could that would still make me
| a Elon for so many people around me.
| protontorpedo wrote:
| Thank you for a good laugh. I feel exactly like that, although
| I work a cushy tech job instead of fixing dishwashers, I know I
| don't have what it takes to make the history books. Hell, not
| even a history blog.
| gonzo41 wrote:
| Elon had starting capital. Never forget that he had the ability
| to have a soft landing all his life.
| dagw wrote:
| _Elon had starting capital._
|
| So do millions of people. The vast majority end up doing
| absolutely nothing of interest or value with it.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Elon Musk also definitely had a lot of luck.
| goodpoint wrote:
| Starting capital and social connections is like having
| thousands of lottery tickets.
|
| You need to be smart enough to check the winning numbers,
| but that's far from enough to win.
| refurb wrote:
| If you got the capital he had could you replicate Tesla's
| success?
|
| I know I couldn't.
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| Unfortunately the truth is something much simpler: sheer petty
| luck.
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