[HN Gopher] Acute aerobic exercise to recover from mental exhaus...
___________________________________________________________________
Acute aerobic exercise to recover from mental exhaustion
Author : prostoalex
Score : 202 points
Date : 2022-02-16 14:40 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| ewilliamsh wrote:
| Would this support the idea of exercising at the end of day vs
| early morning ? ( if you have to choose one )
| ninesnines wrote:
| This is quite interesting -- I think digging into how long this
| would be efficient for would be interesting.
|
| I often feel that the most refreshed I feel is if I combine high
| intensity aerobics with the outdoors -- something about the ocean
| or forest always bring peace and makes me feel focused for the
| rest of the day. It would be nice to dig into how setting us also
| helps.
| helge9210 wrote:
| 30 min at 65-75% of individual V.O2peak is not a joke.
| aberoham wrote:
| V'02peak is an odd phrasing, sounds like it's a quick
| approximation of VO2max. [1] For anyone with a mild aerobic
| base, wouldn't 65-75% of VO2max be easy to moderate?
|
| 1: http://cpxinternational.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2014/05/028_B...
| helge9210 wrote:
| > wouldn't 65-75% of VO2max be easy to moderate?
|
| Once you get used to it, yes.
| ska wrote:
| I think VO2 peak is a real thing, but it is measurement
| specific (i.e. peak value achieved on a test). Not very
| useful in this context.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| Just browsed through the Abstract. Some unrelated thoughts:
|
| I think the issue that most people won't gather up the will to do
| aerobic exercise after they are mentally exhausted -- even that
| they know it works to some extent.
|
| Following this, I believe, without scientific proof, that genius
| (or others who can contribute significantly more than other
| people) have their mind wired completely different from other
| people. For example, I know people who are super smart, super
| energetic, and (in the context of OP article) can switch between
| tasks efficiently. They don't seem to need cooldown, they always
| have the will to do something as long as they know it's good for
| them. In one sentence, they are more like machines.
|
| I wonder if there is a way for ordinary people to achieve that
| "machine-like" mentality. I'm curious to learn from your
| experience if you are able to grow from a "weak-minded" people to
| a "strong-will" one, however painfully. So far I haven't seen one
| example.
| SuoDuanDao wrote:
| There's an author I follow who shared the basic techniques of
| Western cultivation schools with respect to will on his blog.
|
| https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/tag/will
|
| I suppose it might be a question of whether having enough
| willpower to start the exercises disqualifies one from being
| 'weak minded'
| VadimPR wrote:
| Routines do wonders. It's only hard the first few times,
| afterwards it becomes second nature to go and workout after
| work. It also helps that I've never, ever regretted doing a
| workout - you always feel amazing.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| I wish this was a universal truth. I've had various degrees
| of success maintaining a steady workout routine during
| various periods of my life, but I universally hate
| exercising, even during periods where I'm doing it very
| consistently. After a good workout, I feel exactly the same
| as I did aside from being a bit more tired.
| [deleted]
| fartcannon wrote:
| That's not true for everyone. I find the routine of exercise
| unbearable. It's the primary reason I give up and take months
| long breaks.
|
| Additionally, do you have kids? Have you ever tried working
| out and then immediately chasing around a toddler? I regret
| it every time. The exercise, not the toddler.
| [deleted]
| gunfighthacksaw wrote:
| Another testament to the power of routines: if you get
| disrupted for whatever reason (travel, vacation, extreme
| cold, bout of depression) the new routine of not exercising
| itself becomes second nature.
| dfsegoat wrote:
| > _I 'm curious to learn from your experience if you are able
| to grow from a "weak-minded" people to a "strong-will" one,
| however painfully._
|
| Train brazilian jiu jitsu, or another martial art that involves
| actual physical contact. Mental toughness is a skill that you
| can develop quickly in endeavors like those.
|
| Generally, pick something that is difficult, or uncomfortable -
| and do that thing over and over again. It could be as simple a
| making yourself take 1 minute of cold shower every morning.
| Lewton wrote:
| Anecdotally, 90% of the "machines" I've met, also had a history
| of exercising significantly more than the average joe
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| Yeah, but then again it's a chicken and egg problem.
| hashimotonomora wrote:
| Discipline is developed and matured. Religion and stoicism are
| beneficial.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| If it is true (that it has little to do with genetics and
| childhood education - I kinda treat childhood education the
| same as genetics because you don't get to choose and are
| forced upon you), how does one do it? There must be some
| scientific research on it. Would love to see some long-term
| (5Y+) follow-up research.
|
| I always found growing strong discipline from thin air
| similar to pulling one's hair to leave the ground.
| buscoquadnary wrote:
| It is possible within all humans with the spice melange....
|
| However barring becoming a mentat I've noticed this variation
| within myself as well and I've noticed the times I am able to
| go and go and go is when I have a lot of momentum. It seems
| that doing things that require will naturally result in more
| will so it isn't that the task is easier but rather my ability
| to overcome is increased and it is a smaller % of my overall
| energy expenditure to do.
|
| In accord with this I've noticed that for me taking a "break"
| is when I get far less done and it becomes much harder to do
| anything.
|
| I've also seen that when I have things booked back to back to
| back no matter the density it seems I can keep going so long as
| I don't stop to think about how tired I am and just keep going.
| It's when I get breathing room that it seems like everything
| I've already been doing is impossible.
|
| The other big help for me was Adderall, I have ADHD bad so if I
| am not working under pressure and a deadline sufficient to
| release adrenaline I can't do anything. That was until I got my
| medicine then I finally felt like I could be who I could be
| without being a nurveous burned out wreck all the time.
|
| That's just my perspective with n=1.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| Thanks for the reply.
|
| I also found that I work pretty well when under pressure or
| someone request something challenging (especially if it's a
| girl I like :D). However, both are external forces and they
| don't come very often. It's VERY difficult to find jobs that
| consistently provide enough challenge because those jobs are
| very picky about candidates. Neither often there is any
| request coming from other people.
|
| It would be nice if I can grow an internal force.
| Khelavaster wrote:
| ...But not from "tiredness", according to the paper!
| fjfaase wrote:
| If I understand the paper correctly, I have been doing the right
| thing with biking to the office every day :-). My bike ride takes
| about 24 minutes one way. I have always looked for jobs at a
| biking distance from my home.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| I had this situation when I lived in Munich. 20 minutes biking
| through mostly forest. I have never felt that connected to
| nature since then. After a while you feel humidity,
| temperature, learn weather patterns,know what animals do. It
| was really good for the soul.
| swah wrote:
| And it really works better this way. If you just ride around
| the same block 10 times and then arrive at you job (at home,
| say) it doesn't feel as good.
| rmbyrro wrote:
| Interesting. I wonder if this could be a preventive measure. If I
| anticipate a likely exhaustion period, would prior aerobic
| exercise help to prevent or mitigate it?
| onemoresoop wrote:
| If time for gym is limited, I recommend getting a rebounder at
| home. It is low impact and the workout doesn't feel too hard, but
| as soon as you're done jumping for about 10 minutes you can feel
| it throughout the body. 10 minutes a day in the morning does make
| a big difference in my experience. I recommend a non-spring
| bungee cord based rebounder, perhaps a used better brand would
| do.
|
| But if you can run and don't have joint issues, sprints can put
| you in the best shape possible in about two weeks.
| emerged wrote:
| I generally split my day up to alternate between physical
| activity, rational/logical projects/work, and creative activity.
| I do think while you engage in one the others are getting at
| least some amount of rest.
| bacro wrote:
| 30 minutes of aerobic exercise for 1 hour of mental work is what
| was assessed. Does it have the same benefits if we have 8 hours
| of mental work instead?
| maaaaattttt wrote:
| Based (only) on the personal experience of going for a run
| after a day at the computer and then working on a side project,
| I would say that even after 8 hours you can recover from the
| mental exhaustion of the day. Not completely, but you would
| definitely be able to work more/better than without the
| exercise in between.
| hobo_mark wrote:
| Anecdotal of course, but when I used to commute daily by bike,
| the 30 minute ride in the evening would dissipate the brain fog
| enough to let me work on side projects almost every day until
| 2am or so, and the morning ride would wake me up from the
| slight sleep deprivation. So 1 hour bike (both ways) per 12 or
| so hours of work (including the "night shift").
| cableshaft wrote:
| What, you don't have time to exercise for four hours a day? /s
| darawk wrote:
| I've found this to be true personally. Pre-pandemic I used to go
| to the gym after work every night. I'd always go in feeling
| mentally exhausted, and leave feeling mentally refreshed and able
| to work on some of my side projects for a bit.
| ok123456 wrote:
| I work out every day after work. I've noticed there's no
| relationship between 'metal exhaustion' and being too physically
| exhausted to workout. It doesn't matter how "tough" your day was.
| It has no real impact on your physical ability there, and you
| will not feel as "tired" when you leave.
| friedman23 wrote:
| I personally find that the exercise doesn't even need to be
| "acute". When I'm feeling mentally tired I just drink water or
| eat a piece of fruit and go outdoors and walk for a bit and my
| mental energy just comes back.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| I often think the the imbalance between mental effort and
| physical effort in modern office jobs causes a lot of problems.
|
| Some of my happiest days were when I trained boxing and weights 2
| hours six times a week. It's hard to be depressed or anxious when
| you are physically exhausted and the feeling of physical strength
| just makes you feel better. Working out to the point of
| exhaustion feels like a "reset" for body and mind.
|
| Eating is another thing. When I hike the whole day or backpack
| for days my eating gets naturally balanced without effort. I eat
| what I need and that's it. When I work for 10 hours a day at a
| desk I start craving junk food and have to be careful not to put
| on weight. And not moving much is physically exhausting. I think
| that's because in the past usually when you had a lot of mental
| stress you were under physical threat (e.g. chased by a predator
| or enemy) and therefore probably needed physical energy. So we
| react to the typical modern workplace stress by wanting more
| energy but we never use it.
|
| Any ideas for a career that balances physical and mental effort
| better (and pays well)? A few years ago I worked near a place
| where they shot a lot of movie scenes and film production seemed
| pretty attractive. They spend a lot of time in the office
| planning things but then they go out for extended periods of time
| and do the actual shoot.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| My experience working on movies was lots of time on the road
| (cumulatively, months of the year) and lots of standing around.
| This might be different if you were working exclusively in a
| studio; some roles are certainly more physical than others, of
| course.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Even the standing around seems way healthier than staring at
| a computer screen the whole day.
| brimble wrote:
| Filming with a small crew is more active than sitting in a
| chair, but only barely, I'd say. There's more standing, at
| least.
|
| Most of the time you're waiting near the spot where you need to
| be, or staying perfectly still, or moving but only very slowly.
|
| Film work (even small-scale local stuff) can be _really_ fun
| but 90+% of the physical activity will be goofing off, for most
| of the people involved in most shoots. And of course most of
| the work before and after filming is sitting in front of a
| screen, like any other office job.
| mellavora wrote:
| Plumber.
| bgroat wrote:
| Military special forces or playing a team sport at a high-
| level?
|
| Those folks are SMART
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Probably not viable choices for us skinny nerds :)
| pepp wrote:
| My most effective method for relieving brain fog is doing a few
| songs in beat saber @ PSVR, works surprisingly well and hasn't
| failed me so far.
|
| If I feel sluggish and in a generally negative mood on a day when
| we're having friends or family over for dinner or whatever, my
| wife makes me play beat saber and it really does help a lot!
|
| My ADHD can make it hard for me to just boot up the playstation,
| even if I need it and I know it will help, so having a loving
| wife is great too :)
| eitland wrote:
| > While widespread strategies to recover from mental exhaustion
| (i.e., watching TV) are non-effective,
|
| I worked for a startup from 2015 to 2017.
|
| During that time I'd sometimes work 10-14 hours for 2-3 days in a
| row.
|
| When I was tired after lunch I'd just tell my colleagues I was
| tired and would take a gaming break and then go play 1 or 2 maps
| of CS:GO in casual mode before working 5-7 hours more after the
| brain fog had lifted. It actually worked very well back then.
|
| Not exactly the same as TV since was very active and not relaxing
| but I feel it was worth mentioning since to counter the idea that
| only physical exercise can work.
|
| Later I figured out that if I just drop breakfast I don't get hit
| by brain fog after lunch. This is funny since every health
| specialist have always told how important a correct breakfast is
| to stay sharp during the day.
|
| During the pandemic I tried this again but stopped it since now
| it seems 20 minutes of gaming just wastes 40 minutes of my day.
| There are some obvious between now and then but I have no clear
| idea which of them are responsible for why it worked back then
| but not now. (During the pandemic I worked from home, I also
| don't eat breakfast mot days and I am older now.)
| aphroz wrote:
| The idea that "breakfast was the most important meal" was
| created by cereals manufacturers:
| https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/28/breakfa...
| curiousllama wrote:
| If you ever want to do breakfast again, try dropping the carbs.
| Had a similar problem, and greek yogurt for breakfast solved it
| for me.
| g19fanatic wrote:
| +1 for dropping the carbs to leave the fog behind.
|
| I used to do a large, sometimes carb heavy breakfast (french
| toast was my goto... with syrup of course). Brain fog killed
| me. Switched to 2 strips of bacon and 3 eggs instead (bacon
| done in the microwave, so easy) and that fog has lifted!
| m3kw9 wrote:
| It sound funny but it seems like playing cs go for you at the
| time was equivalent of a mind calming meditation. Especially
| play easy mode where you get kill streaks which can remotivate
| you
| eitland wrote:
| My pet theory for why it worked back then has been that my
| brain is easily fooled, sensed a life and death scenario and
| released adrenaline which sharpened me, but I'm no
| specialist, I just know some tricks that sometimes work for
| me.)
| arpanet86 wrote:
| Sam Blankman-Fried of FTX had a Twitter thread about playing
| League of Legends during work hours to let his brain reset
| without dumping all of its context:
| https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1357123542999916544
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Assuming that the article's conclusions are sound, I wonder what
| think/exercise schedule would maximize a developer's
| productivity.
|
| (I'm not assuming that a single schedule is applicable to all
| circumstances or persons.)
| iandanforth wrote:
| How was a nap not one of the compared strategies? A nap that
| doesn't enter deep sleep (~ <20 minutes) has lots of support for
| this kind of recovery.
| ibnishak wrote:
| Also meditation
| virgulino wrote:
| >Subsequently, they were randomized to one of three treatments:
| 30 min of moderate aerobic exercise on a cycle ergometer, 30 min
| of a simple lower body stretching routine (= active control
| treatment) or watching a popular sitcom (= passive control
| treatment).
|
| Watching sitcoms stresses me out. And I hate most of them.
| stakkur wrote:
| I walk every day, and I get these results. I nearly always feel
| more energized, focused, and relaxed afterward. When I don't
| walk, I really notice the difference.
| zeku wrote:
| Just want to add to this thread: Walking. Just take a walk no
| need for something special! If we are talking a workout routine
| then that's different, but if it's just a mental reset after a
| challenging couple hours of work then go on a 15 min walk!
| wincy wrote:
| Pre Covid my entire team would go on walks once a day, even
| when it was cold out. I really miss those 15-20 minute
| excursions, I feel like we all really bonded during our walks
| and it was a good opportunity to hash out weird things about
| work and complexity since we had nothing better to do than pick
| each other's brains.
| hasbot wrote:
| Absolutely. Walking is the cheapest, easiest effective exercise
| there is. Unfortunately so much of the US is not conducive to
| safe walking. For example, neighborhoods without sidewalks.
| colincooke wrote:
| I can totally relate to this, working from home and having an
| exercise bike has done wonderful things for my work. One thing
| I'm curious of (and might be tackled in a follow-up) is if
| shorter bursts of exercise (perhaps more intense) are just as
| effective?
|
| In their experiment they find that 30 minutes of moderate
| exercise is effective. I'd be curious to compare that with for
| example 10 minutes of high intensity exercise?
| bavell wrote:
| HIIT (high intensity interval training) is a very time
| efficient way of getting a great workout with lots of benefits.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_trai...
| rybosworld wrote:
| I'm skeptical this can be implemented into a schedule where you
| do mental work for multiple hours a day.
| VadimPR wrote:
| Work 8h, go to gym, work more on hobbies at home. Fits well for
| me for years - physical exercise, either aerobic or anaerobic,
| is a great mental reset for me that's worked for years.
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| What is the exercise to do? Jumping jacks? Pushups?
| sputknick wrote:
| Personal Anecdote: when I was in an office (before current WFH)
| and I was mentally exhausted I would go down to the gym, slam
| slam balls into the floor for 2 minutes without stopping, maybe
| take a 30 second cold shower, then return to work. Super
| refreshing and I was gone from my desk a grand total of like 8
| minutes.
| tommiegannert wrote:
| Sadly I don't frequent a gym anymore, but this is an idea I'd
| never have thought of.
|
| How did you arrive at this ritual?
| renewiltord wrote:
| I think the specific exercise may be unique but the act
| usually isn't. For instance I do the same with a pair of
| select tech dumbbells. I find that I have an afternoon
| sleepiness that is dissipated by this.
| sputknick wrote:
| It was kind of a Goldilocks aerobic exercise. I tried
| sprinting on the treadmill and found that too aerobic, and I
| would sweat at my desk afterwards, and I tried bicep curls
| and found that not aerobic enough and really just an arm
| workout.
| [deleted]
| quantified wrote:
| A heavy bag nearby is almost ideal too.
| [deleted]
| saint_angels wrote:
| did you try other high intensity exercise and found that
| slamming balls is superior, or slamming balls was just the
| first thing that came to mind?
| sputknick wrote:
| I tried sprinting on the treadmill and found that too
| aerobic, and I would sweat at my desk afterwards, and I tried
| bicep curls and found that not aerobic enough and really just
| an arm workout.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| I don't think it really matters all that much. Doing anything
| is better than doing nothing.
|
| Just do any exercise that's convenient and don't overthink
| the details. Make it as easy as possible to get up and do.
| The more complicated you make it, the less you'll actually do
| it.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| A quick round of pushups, sit-ups, and air squats is my WFH
| exercise routine. Do it whenever you're feeling slow Fromm
| sitting and it will get your body re-started.
|
| Can be done in 1-2 minutes right next to the desk.
|
| It doesn't replace a true gym trip but it comes much closer
| than I ever would have thought before I started doing it.
| akeck wrote:
| I'm on the top floor so my version is to casually walk up and
| down 4 flights of stairs 3-4 times and then shower. The entire
| process takes 15-20 minutes. I feel so much better afterwards.
| wincy wrote:
| I used to go outside of my office and sprint as fast as I could
| for as long as I could, then cool down with a walk around the
| block. Then I switched jobs and everyone could see me if I did
| this so I got embarrassed and stopped. I feel like it really
| helped, maybe I need to get back into the habit, especially
| since I'm working from home.
| aspaviento wrote:
| Going from a long period of time sitting to immediately
| perform an explosive exercise is a recipe for getting
| injured. Muscles and joints will suffer from it on the long
| term.
| enduser wrote:
| Don't be afraid to set a good example!
| herodoturtle wrote:
| > slam slam balls
|
| At first I didn't realise this was a verb followed by a noun,
| and thought to myself "damn, these slam slam balls sound like
| fun!"
| pmarreck wrote:
| One of the single biggest errors I've had to unlearn being taught
| in my life is that "exercise is for the body and mainly for
| athletes" instead of (or perhaps along with) "exercise is also
| for the mind if you're a nerd" ;)
|
| (Naturally, the mind is part of the body, but the mental benefits
| are drastically under-emphasized!)
|
| Morning exercise a few times a week (at Orangetheory, in my case)
| lead to fairly large productivity boosts. My head feels so much
| clearer and I seem to have a lot more focus on tap, and just raw
| motivation to get things done or what I call "mental oomph".
| User23 wrote:
| One of the quickest adaptations to physical activity is that
| your motor neurons get better at firing and recruiting motor
| units. There's evidence that these benefits spill over to the
| entire CNS.
| CaptArmchair wrote:
| As the Roman poet Juvenal once wrote: "Mens sana in corpore
| sano"
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano
| brimble wrote:
| Gods of the Copybook Headers. (edit: Head _ings_ , of course)
|
| They may be old fuddy-duddies, but damned if they aren't
| right more often than not. Even when we'd rather they
| weren't.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| When the article talks about "mental exhaustion", it is talking
| about short-term mental fatigue from the likes of working too
| long on a mental task. It is _not_ talking about chronic fatigue
| or burnout due to chronic stress, or ME /CFS, for which exercise
| may cause worsening of symptoms. In that case stress reduction is
| likely the better solution, and exercise managed so you are not
| doing too little or too much.
|
| Making this comment because I suffered (and recovered from)
| ME/CFS myself.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| ME/CFS is defined by post-exertional malaise, so by definition
| it wouldn't be improved by exertion.
|
| Burnout, however, does tend to respond positively to exercise
| over time. Burnout and ME/CFS are very different conditions.
|
| > Making this comment because I suffered (and recovered from)
| ME/CFS myself.
|
| How were you able to recover from ME/CFS? It seems spontaneous
| recovery does happen to some, though for others it is a chronic
| condition that will likely require some future medical advances
| to overcome.
| trevormcneal wrote:
| can you explain what is ME/CFS and how you recovered ?
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| ME/CFS is a chronic condition characterized by debilitating
| fatigue and, specifically, post-exertional malaise. Patients
| who suffer from ME/CFS will have very debilitating negative
| reactions to any exertion past a certain threshold. The
| negative reaction can be delayed by 24 hours in some and it
| can be severe enough to make jobs or daily activities
| anywhere from difficult to nearly impossible.
|
| Importantly, the delayed worsening can clearly be measured by
| light exercise testing. It isn't the same as normal post-
| exercise recovery or soreness. It's far worse and can even be
| triggered by strenuous mental activity (perhaps energy
| expenditure in general).
|
| For many, it has a distinct viral trigger. They can be fine
| and healthy one week, then become chronic CFS sufferers after
| an infection with a number of notable viruses (EBV is
| common).
|
| Sound familiar? It has a lot of parallels to "Long COVID",
| but it just never got the same attention because it's not
| attached to a global pandemic in the 24/7 news cycle.
| SuoDuanDao wrote:
| I'd like to second this question, I'm very interested in any
| recovery story of CFS.
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| There are hundreds of accounts of people who have had
| substantial recovery (thought probably not full) from
| ME/CFS. The problem is that what works for one person
| doesn't work at all for 99% of other sufferers. Some people
| say injections of B12 fixed them up; others move to the
| desert and get away from environmental issues (and perhaps
| stress); others benefit from a _very_ gradual incline of
| exercise; a few have had spinal fusions; and so on.
|
| My wife has had ME/CFS for more than a decade. Honestly
| many of the touted remedies she finds online sound like
| snake oil, but if you are suffering and nobody has a good
| clue, you try each one in turn hoping you might be one of
| the lucky people who responds to a given modality.
|
| Cort Johnson runs the website Health Rising, which acts as
| a clearing house for recent news about ME/CFS (and recently
| long covid as it relates to ME/CFS) and there is a
| community built around that site.
|
| https://www.healthrising.org/about-us/cort-johnson/
| justsocrateasin wrote:
| Entirely anecdotal, but a lot of professional endurance sports
| athletes / ultra distance athletes are also high performing PhD
| candidates/professors/academics. It's kind of weird - if you
| watch the documentary about the Barkley Marathons, the winners
| are usually some kind of math/engineering PhD candidate.
|
| Another anecdote - As a kid I was "hyperactive" and struggled a
| lot in school until my freshman year. Coincidentally, my problems
| of hyperactivity and poor grades both stopped at almost the exact
| time I started doing "competitive" endurance sports. I was just
| now diagnosed with ADHD as an adult in my mid twenties. My
| diagnosis probably took so long because I've been "self
| medicating" with exercise for the last ~10-15 years.
|
| I definitely believe the results of this study and I've found
| them true in my own life. I've consistently used exercise as a
| reset from studying / working, and often attributed consistent
| exercise as a key to my productivity.
| carabiner wrote:
| Not just anecdotal, see "Why Do Rich People Love Endurance
| Sports?" discussed at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19016362
|
| > I was just now diagnosed with ADHD as an adult in my mid
| twenties. My diagnosis probably took so long because I've been
| "self medicating" with exercise for the last ~10-15 years.
|
| Also, Jesus. It's as if ADHD is a manufactured diagnosis to
| pathologize a healthy response to living conditions humans
| _should_ find intolerable: sitting at a desk all day. I won 't
| link to Born to Run, but it's easy to see that pre-industrial
| humans (i.e. 99% of the homo sapiens lifestyle) had lives full
| of physical activity. We call exercise "self-medication" when
| it is really a sick society that we should address.
| BirdieNZ wrote:
| > It's as if ADHD is a manufactured diagnosis to pathologize
| a healthy response to living conditions humans should find
| intolerable: sitting at a desk all day. I won't link to Born
| to Run, but it's easy to see that pre-industrial humans (i.e.
| 99% of the homo sapiens lifestyle) had lives full of physical
| activity. We call exercise "self-medication" when it is
| really a sick society that we should address.
|
| I'd love for this to be true but all the evidence we have is
| that it is not true. I don't know if you're diagnosed with
| ADHD yourself or not, but as someone diagnosed with ADHD this
| sounds like a cool fantasy. I've also heard people say "well
| it's just cellphones and TikTok giving everyone ADHD, people
| just need to practice focusing". I grew up playing ~3 sports
| at any one time year round, with plenty of outdoor physical
| activity, running around the neighbourhood. I read books
| constantly, had very little access to computers, no access to
| cellphones. I also had terrible ADHD symptoms my whole life,
| and the only thing that helps reduce the symptoms effectively
| is medication. I have plenty of coping mechanisms that help
| but they are not preventative.
|
| I would love not to take medication, as I'm generally averse
| to taking medication unnecessarily. It's the only thing that
| lets me choose to work on the things I want to work on,
| whether chores, listening to people, projects at my job or in
| my personal life.
|
| The scientific evidence we have about ADHD is that it's
| highly heritable, that there are clear physical differences
| in size of certain parts of the brain in people with
| diagnosed ADHD, and that some children grow out of it as
| those parts of their brain catch up. It's one of the best
| examples we have of a disorder with clear physical causes,
| and the mechanism of the medications we have is also one of
| the best understood of all brain disorders. It's a dream to
| suggest it is just some hunter-mode human capability that
| modern society doesn't have a place for.
|
| It sucks to have it and I wish I didn't, and that's because I
| want to be able to pay attention to the people I love when
| they talk to me, not because of some desire to be a perfect
| cog in a corporation that wouldn't exist in pre-industrial
| society.
| gbjw wrote:
| Amen. Another documentary comes to mind: The Alpinist (on
| Amazon). It follows a Canadian climber who 'solved' his ADHD
| by becoming one of the world's best mountain climbers.
| Funnily enough, his climbing style was smooth, controlled and
| relaxed. At a desk, he couldn't sit still.
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| How often did he have to climb in order to sit still for a
| little while? Wondering if I need to exercise 5x a week now
| in order to concentrate.
| quantified wrote:
| The "hyper" in hyperactive seems to suffer from a bias as to
| where to set the threshold. Given the kinetic energy of school-
| aged boys, I'm not surprised that a lot of them are diagnosed
| as such. Granted that a great many deserve the diagnosis, and I
| have direct experience with this. High/energy "recess" multiple
| times a day would seem to a good approach to help deal with it.
| Grambo wrote:
| Reminds me of the fact that Alan Turing was a world class
| distance runner. He would sometimes run commute 40 miles for
| meetings.
| udbhavs wrote:
| John Carmack is also heavily into Judo and Brazilian Jiu
| Jitsu
| amelius wrote:
| Let's not exaggerate. Everybody has hobbies.
| jordanbeiber wrote:
| Having practiced submission wrestling and bjj for years -
| it is incredible strenous and requires conditioning to
| handle at all.
|
| Judo, with it's focus on grappling standing up is
| ridiculously hard on the body, and is not something you
| just pick up late in life and chill with. You'd break in
| all sorts of ways.
|
| Carmack seems to have a serious interest, starting with
| wrestling in highschool.
|
| > My wife for Christmas once got me a year of privates
| with Carlos Machado which put me up several levels. There
| was a period there where I'd have Judo with one of my
| coaches one day, then privates with Carlos the other
| day."
|
| https://bjjtribes.com/john-carmack-details-his-bjj-and-
| judo-...
| [deleted]
| babyshake wrote:
| That's about 1.5 marathons each way for a meeting?
| herodoturtle wrote:
| Only if it's Turing Complete.
| sweetdreamerit wrote:
| you just won the internet :D
| quantified wrote:
| Turing Compete?
| Someone wrote:
| Apparently.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Cryptanalysis:
|
| _While working at Bletchley, Turing, who was a talented
| long-distance runner, occasionally ran the 40 miles (64 km)
| to London when he was needed for meetings, and he was
| capable of world-class marathon standards. Turing tried out
| for the 1948 British Olympic team, but he was hampered by
| an injury. His tryout time for the marathon was only 11
| minutes slower than British silver medallist Thomas
| Richards ' Olympic race time of 2 hours 35 minutes. He was
| Walton Athletic Club's best runner, a fact discovered when
| he passed the group while running alone. When asked why he
| ran so hard in training he replied:
|
| I have such a stressful job that the only way I can get it
| out of my mind is by running hard; it's the only way I can
| get some release._
|
| That doesn't say he ran back, to, though. Maybe call that a
| half-commute?
|
| https://mathshistory.st-
| andrews.ac.uk/Extras/Turing_running:
|
| _Alan Turing ran a little while he was at Sherbourne
| school, usually when football was cancelled because of bad
| weather. He did not run while an undergraduate at
| Cambridge, preferring to row, but once he had won his
| fellowship to King 's College he began to run more
| seriously, his frequent route being from Cambridge to Ely
| and back, a distance of around 50 km. He did a little
| running while at Bletchley but only when he moved to the
| National Physical Laboratory did he take up running more
| seriously_
| 83457 wrote:
| Now that's a unique excuse when arriving late for meetings.
| swah wrote:
| Actually, driving time probably has a much higher
| variation...
| agumonkey wrote:
| there's something about walking that also lives in the abstract
| world of ideas *you walk through a partially lit map of
| unknowns and ideas) ? that and increased blood flow to your
| head ? maybe hunting was the original and only problem solving
| instance that caused CNS to develop.
| gopalv wrote:
| > professional endurance sports athletes / ultra distance
| athletes are also high performing PhD candidates
|
| There are three ways to slice this fact, depends on who you
| ask. And I've asked a lot of people, because India treated
| "sports" as the refuge of those who cannot cut it in academics
| & I had two decades of people telling me to "quit running
| around, sit and study" which I had to unlearn in my 30s.
|
| First is that thinking is not just limited by the "hardware" /
| displacement of your brain engine, but the consumable for doing
| it - that when I go for a walk and kick up my heart to 130 bpm,
| my brain is getting the equivalent of a turbo boost (literally,
| more oxygen to burn). The same applies to the glucose out of
| the liver, where a runner trains to feel the second wind coming
| even when the thing burning through glucose is their brain. And
| I've found that I can burn through a lot playing chess - heart-
| rates up by +30, extremities go cold and hunger stops when I'm
| thinking hard (or losing). Lower your heart-rate sitting still,
| the more boost you can push when needed.
|
| But there's also a problem with selection bias.
|
| Second is that running or endurance sports is not entirely
| physical. Nobody is chasing you to run, you are running on pure
| internal motivation & that selects for people who are good at
| staying on a chase. The mindset needed to keep running 10+
| miles is basically why we tell people "this is marathon, not a
| sprint" when it comes to putting in time into something new.
| Because the mindset is about pacing, not absolute pace (the
| swimming scene in Gattaca comes to mind). I think this is
| selected for but like muscles it grows with use; you can evolve
| your mindset closer to being a persistence predator of ideas,
| beyond boredom.
|
| Third is that the resources needed to be an amazing endurance
| runner and a PhD candidate are correlated - you need to focus
| away from paying the bills and work on doing something which
| has a slow burn with a very delayed reward. You need a healthy
| childhood, you need time to go running and you need a culture
| which values physical fitness as either a military tool (the
| himalayan hikes I went to were full of israelis in their 20s)
| or social status symbol (a somewhat post-scarcity economy).
|
| I can't run as fast or in competitive fashion, a half marathon
| is my distance of choice, but I running for the first two
| reasons and can keep doing it for the third.
| comonoid wrote:
| Is it about NIH syndrome?
| ck2 wrote:
| The keyword there is "aerobic".
|
| Weight lifting is not aerobic, it is anaerobic.
|
| If you run/cycle/etc beyond your lactate threshold heartrate,
| you've now switched from aerobic to anaerobic.
|
| Easy to google for more info if this seems interesting/important
| to you, just a "heads up" to the concept.
| User23 wrote:
| > Weight lifting is not aerobic, it is anaerobic.
|
| Heavy low repetition lifting is anaerobic, but around 15-20+
| repetitions with lighter weights it becomes aerobic.
| all2 wrote:
| Super sets of 80+ reps is definitely cardio, especially on
| legs day.
| ck2 wrote:
| What's your heart rate after the first 20 or so?
|
| If it's beyond 70% max heart rate, you are likely going
| anaerobic, muscles and heart start switch from fat to
| glycogen to ATP as the demand increases.
|
| It's like a runner doing "speed work" on a track. First 800
| relatively "easy". By the eight repeat, not so much.
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