[HN Gopher] Oculus Quest is removing the Facebook account requir...
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Oculus Quest is removing the Facebook account requirement
Author : simonjgreen
Score : 358 points
Date : 2021-10-29 08:02 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (gamerant.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (gamerant.com)
| emreb wrote:
| Is sounds like now you will need an Oculus account that is linked
| to your Meta account which is then linked to your Facebook and
| Instagram.
| zorr wrote:
| At least now it will become possible to use Oculus without
| being forced to have a Facebook social media account. Just like
| it is possible to use Whatsapp without a Facebook identity.
| GuardianCaveman wrote:
| This is the big point even if we have to have a meta account
| we are not at the whim of being suspended from using our
| headset because of something we said on a separate social
| media platform
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| The bigger point is how much of your personal info and
| psychographic profiling will, one way or another, still
| make its way to The Company Formerly Known As Facebook,
| which remains to be seen
|
| Do you think they will just ignore those micro-head-
| movements when they start A/B testing different stuff on
| screen to figure out the algorithm that is _you_? Who needs
| a real, physical Westworld?
|
| I hear the next version might even track retinal movement.
| So many useful audience-segmenting and personalized
| targeting capabilities!
| square_usual wrote:
| That's great, but I've already signed into (and made purchases!)
| on mine with Facebook, so I think I'll have to stay signed in for
| the near future :(
| rtcoms wrote:
| What if you hard reset it ?
| Shish2k wrote:
| Hard reset would log you out, but the more significant
| question is "are my existing purchases tied to my FB
| account?"
| willis936 wrote:
| It begs the question: if they host the social media account and
| VR account and can reliably identify / link them on their end,
| and the laws and terms allow them to do so, does it really matter
| if they're different accounts?
|
| It's still a win if you don't have a facebook account. For
| everyone else: I would assume that they will identify your
| accounts reliably.
| theknocker wrote:
| This is not what begs the question means.
| beeboop wrote:
| It isn't and I've long given up on correcting people.
| Language evolves and sometimes it unfortunately evolves in
| ways that actually make communication more difficult (such as
| the over usage of literally). I've come to terms that if
| someone uses "begs the question" and then actually follows it
| with the question it's _raising_ then it 's fine. It's still
| annoying in the same way as using "utilize" instead of "use".
| It just sounds like someone trying to project themselves in a
| certain way and it coming across sort of stilted
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > This is not what begs the question means.
|
| Yes, it is what "begs the question" as a transitive verb
| phrase means (though the colon was superfluous, there.)
|
| It is different from what "begs the question" as an
| _intransitive_ verb phrase, which is older, means, but it
| also serves as something of a generalization and
| rationalization of the older phrase that makes the dubious
| and at best quite outdated translation from Latin have the
| appearance of some sensible relationship to the common
| definitions of English words in the phrase, so the pointless
| pedantry of opposing the clear and distinct transitive use
| which makes the intransitive use _less_ detached from the
| rest of modern English is dumb. And tiresome.
| svachalek wrote:
| What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that
| makes it not the object of the verb?
|
| I've given up complaining about the common usage, except
| that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the technical usage;
| there's no "begging" involved so the only reason not to say
| "raise the question" is because it sounds more scholarly to
| use the Latin, even incorrectly.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > What is "the question" in the intransitive sense, that
| makes it not the object of the verb?
|
| The phrase "begs the question" is an idiomatic phrase
| that operates as a verb phrase. It can be either
| intransitive ("X begs the question" or transitive "X begs
| the question Y"). In the intransitive use it refers to
| applying the _petitio principii_ fallacy; in the
| intransitive form it refers to creating a demand for the
| answer to a specific question (the former can be viewed
| as a special case of the latter where the specific
| question is the justification for the same claim the
| argument was intended to justify.)
|
| > I've given up complaining about the common usage,
| except that it's a nonsense phrase that apes the
| technical usage; there's no "begging" involved so the
| only reason not to say "raise the question" is because it
| sounds more scholarly to use the Latin, even incorrectly.
|
| "begging the question" isn't Latin, its an (arguably
| quite bad even when it was coined and definitely dated)
| translation of Latin into English.
|
| The Latin is " _petitio principii_ ".
| GuardianCaveman wrote:
| I guess it depends on what you're worried about so if it's
| identification and targeted ads you're probably right but I was
| just worried about losing access if I close or get banned or
| something from my Facebook account for whatever reason.
| ComodoHacker wrote:
| > does it really matter if they're different accounts?
|
| Yes. If you lose access to one, you can keep the other.
| phone8675309 wrote:
| You assume that linking them will prevent any bans from
| propagating from one to the other.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| Yes, because that's literally what they said was the reason
| for doing so in the stream, but I agree that until there's
| more clarity here and an explanation of how the terms of a
| Meta account would work then that's only of so much use.
| ncann wrote:
| Also if you have a Quest that is shared in the family, you
| don't need to worry about your family members poking around
| your FB stuffs anymore.
| Siira wrote:
| Can Facebook reliably find fake, empty profiles created
| just for Oculus?
| Digit-Al wrote:
| I recall reading something about having to have "an
| account in good standing", which certainly suggests that
| they can tell if an account is a real one or a dummy one.
| Damogran6 wrote:
| I wouldn't bet against them. They can tell if you longer
| on an ad, just by measuring how fast you're scrolling the
| feed.
| chaostheory wrote:
| If they would have just stuck to this strategy, there would
| have been a lot less drama around the Quest 2 and more sales.
| tw04 wrote:
| >It's still a win if you don't have a facebook account.
|
| That's making the assumption that Facebook isn't just going to
| eventually force everyone to a "meta" account that spans all of
| their properties. Which is exactly what I expect they're going
| to do.
| amelius wrote:
| After the "Facebook pixel", yes.
| impulser_ wrote:
| They aren't planning on it, based on Mark's keynote. They are
| opening up the products to multiple different account
| integrations. You will most likely be able to create an
| account with your Google account or Microsoft account.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Reminds me of google plus
| ehnto wrote:
| Google Plus is interesting because whilst the social
| platform failed, getting you to sign in across a huge swath
| of properties with your Google account certainly worked.
| They even had me along for the ride until they started
| automatically managing Google accounts through their
| browser.
|
| I think both Google and Facebook have pushed their luck
| recently and found the edges of their domain and their
| user's complacency. I imagine they'll just keep pushing and
| we'll eventually cave, but there has at least been some
| sensible backlash.
| Macha wrote:
| A unified google account predates Google+. Really the two
| pushes in that direction that Google+ contributed was
| when they decided to force the holdouts on legacy
| unlinked YouTube accounts to make G+ brand accounts, and
| when they shuttered orkut which had its own account
| system iirc.
| thruway516 wrote:
| They all have Apple envy
| xtracto wrote:
| And Microsoft Passport ... or later .net Passport
| slim wrote:
| That's making the assumption that they are not going to
| identify you using your ip + some heuristics
| vineyardmike wrote:
| There was a recent interview with MZ on HN that addressed
| this. He was asked if it was a mistake to require one
| account, and he basically said "we wanted a single-login, but
| we didn't think about how combining accounts would be
| undesirable, but we recognize it is"
|
| So I think the end state is a single-log in Meta account with
| discrete FB and Oculus accounts to accompany it, logged in
| through Meta?
| willis936 wrote:
| If so then it would be a repeat of what they did with Oculus.
| They've certainly demonstrated their capability. I personally
| won't be considering any Meta hardware or software until
| they've demonstrated some seriously benevolent and sustained
| changes.
|
| I was just trying to comment about what this means right now
| for people invested in hardware and on the fence.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| It seems like it is better in that the arbitrary suspension of
| your Facebook account for moderation purposes (which is, due to
| how moderation at scale with machine learning just doesn't
| work, inherently random) won't cause you to lose access to your
| Oculus content and paid media.
|
| It's not a total win, probably, but part of the issue is that
| it's very unclear if you can have multiple redundant Meta
| accounts, what the ID requirements are for Meta accounts, what
| the process for appealing against moderation decisions for Meta
| accounts are, and what the terms of use for Meta accounts are.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| They are explicitly banned from "soft matching" account now, by
| germany of all places.
|
| I suspect that what they are planning to do is to allow
| thirdparty authentication for "professional" VR devices.
| coding123 wrote:
| I prefer no account at all. If you still have an account you
| don't really own the device outright. You had to agree to some
| level of things by buying it at a store. Then you have to
| continually agree to a barrage of ever changing legal
| requirements.
|
| I honestly don't know if I can ever buy a new car, I might have
| to stick with ICE. At some point even your car might show a
| screen that says, hey before driving to work, do you agree to the
| following terms? NO? Then you don't get to go to work.
|
| I think we have too many "agreements" and a lot of it is
| parasitic because they want to sell data about you.
| vegetish wrote:
| "Here, have a sense of freedom. Something Apple will never give
| you."
| MrPatan wrote:
| Interesting, I didn't expect mine to unbrick itself.
| mawise wrote:
| Owner of a Quest 1, so I've never linked to FB, but that's also
| locked me.out of Venues (which was how they broadcast Connect in
| VR). Any speculation on whether Venues will still require a FB
| account?
| morjom wrote:
| Any idea if this applies to other sets like the CV1 or Rift S?
| christophergs wrote:
| I'll pay the extra money and get the valve index just to avoid
| doing business with FB
| ldehaan wrote:
| You're a Ghot damn American patriot! Thank you for not giving
| Facebook money, glad to hear there are other ethical people
| with at least half an eye open. I'd upvote this a billion times
| but once will have to do ;)
| Thaxll wrote:
| Valve left the ship of VR, pain me to say it but Facebook is
| the future.
| throwuxiytayq wrote:
| Facebook is an obsolete term.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| How many people refer to the Blackwater PMC as "XE" or
| "Academi" after THEY changed their name following weeks of
| massively bad PR?
| [deleted]
| wutbrodo wrote:
| I doubt Facebook's name change is driven by the last few
| weeks of bad PR. The relevant model seems Google's change
| to Alphabet, which wasn't driven at all by an attempt to
| flee the negative associations with their previous name.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| I agree Zuckerberg had probably been thinking about it,
| particularly since Snow Crash is assigned reading for
| some of his employees.
|
| It seems, though, that the timeline was moved up
| dramatically to both distract from other Facebook-related
| news, and to escape from the toxic branding that is
| Facebook at this point.
|
| Switching to a name which is already a common english
| word with many uses, seems like an attempt to make future
| criticism more confusing, as well.
| tomc1985 wrote:
| Do you really buy into that
| terafo wrote:
| I wouldn't count them off that easily. Valve is making their
| own autonomous headset, should be out next year. It will be
| more expensive, yes. But it will be faster and it will be
| full blown Linux PC with access to whole library of PC games.
| Might be very competitive(still will lag in units sold
| though, but mostly due to supply constraints). Any you
| shouldn't forget that Sony is still on the market(autonomous
| PSVR is not out of the question) and Apple is making their
| own headset.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| Not wireless, don't care.
|
| Glib but true. Wireless Vs. non-wireless is apples vs. oranges,
| now that I've experienced apples I want apples and Valve is
| only currently selling oranges.
|
| Plus you're comparing a "good enough" $300 device to a superior
| but cost prohibitive $1K device. I feel like people who compare
| a Valve Index to a Quest really don't get what makes Quest
| uniquely good to its audience currently.
|
| Nobody is denying that the Index is technologically superior
| across the board, what I am saying is that the measures we're
| using are completely different. I consider the Steam Deck a
| closer comparison than the Index for example.
| everyone wrote:
| Theres more than 2 VR headsets, Quest and Index, available at
| the moment. Just have a brief look. https://www.vr-
| compare.com/
|
| .
|
| Eg. If you want wireless one like the quest, the HTC Vive
| Focus or HTC Vive Focus plus have similar specs to quest 2..
| they can play games by themselves without a pc and are
| wireless
|
| .
|
| If you have a pc and want higher resolution / framerate like
| the index then DecaGear and HP Reverb G2 look good.
|
| .
|
| I would not get a quest cus of fb, and apparently atm the
| build quality of index is atrocious.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| > atm the build quality of index is atrocious.
|
| I've dropped mine, walked in to objects several times. Had
| the light house trackers fall from a distance and ripped
| the DP plug out of its port. I've had no issue with the
| quality; actually been quite impressed.
|
| What source of claims are you using here?
| gravypod wrote:
| There's a few VR reviews on YouTube. Many things break
| for a lot of the user base. One reviewer has been through
| three headsets and a bunch of controllers. The RMA
| process is good.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| The Vive Focus is marketed as a business headset.
| kapp_in_life wrote:
| Also outside in vs. inside out tracking. Being able to take
| the Quest from living room to rec room without setting up
| cameras is a game changer.
|
| And if you care about the higher performance you can still
| tether yourself to a gaming pc.
| ldehaan wrote:
| Well let's get some edumacation goin here, you can be
| wireless. Tracking is night and day on a vive vs. fb trash
| device. Are you really running around with a vr headset on?
| No, you mostly stay in one area and usually the same one. My
| vive pro not only has insanely good tracking. The video is
| amazing and the tracking, you can't say enough good things
| about it. Vive costs more because it's that much better. So
| while I'd buy the facebook trash costs less, that's the only
| reason to get one. Not even imo, fact.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| You replied to the wrong post. My post was a response to
| one comparing the Quest to the Valve Index, whereas your
| post is seemingly something about Quest Vs. Vive Pro.
|
| Although regardless of who you were trying to respond to,
| comes across likely ruder than you intended just fyi.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| > Tracking is night and day on a vive vs. fb trash device
|
| Is it though? I mean given the price difference it should
| be miles ahead. However I don't see any meaningful
| difference between the two.
|
| Yes, in low light it might suffer, but then occluded base
| stations will cock up the vive
| spaceisballer wrote:
| I sort of have a hard time dishing out $999 for a Index but I'm
| also in the same boat regarding FB. I don't want anything to do
| with them. Even though they have all my information from back
| in the day when I used it.
| 3np wrote:
| I'm holding out. Even if it means waiting several years
| before getting into VR or AR.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Index: EUR1100 + the cost for a VR-capable PC, if you don't
| already have one
|
| Quest 2: EUR350, standalone
|
| They're not really in the same class at all.
| terafo wrote:
| It looks like Valve is making their own standalone VR headset
| ,and made Steam Deck along the way to meet minimal amount of
| orders for custom chip. The chip can deliver 2.5 TFlops if
| it's clocked like other RDNA2 GPUs, it's almost 2x of Quest 2
| GPU performance. Not sure about price though, it will be
| definitely higher than 300$ of heavily subsidized Quest 2,
| and I think price will be closer to current "Oculus for
| Business" offering, which is 800$. Not sure how it will
| compete with project Cambria.
| krastanov wrote:
| Is there any actual substance behind this rumor? It is
| propagating without not even a shred of supporting
| evidence.
| chaostheory wrote:
| There is, but it's not even close to being here yet so I
| don't know why everyone keeps bringing up. Meta's Cambria
| will be released before Valve's wireless headset.
| terafo wrote:
| Mostly SteamVR datamining. But it's a reasonable thing to
| do and SteamDeck looks like a nice byproduct.
| supermatt wrote:
| Facebook account will become meta account. Oculus will transition
| to meta account. There will be no difference.
| darrenf wrote:
| UploadVR asked Andrew Bosworth directly.
| https://uploadvr.com/quest-2-unlinking-facebook-accounts/
|
| Quote: _We asked Bosworth directly if we could unlink and
| delete our Facebook accounts from Quest and still keep our
| software purchases, to which he simply replied: "Yup"._
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| Plot twist. When you _delete_ your fb account, your identity
| is switched to your shadow profile and any account you
| subsequently link to your oculus is linked to that shadow
| profile
| bni wrote:
| I have an Oculus account with some games that I have never
| connected to Facebook despite multiple reminders to do so.
|
| Wonder what will happen to it.
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| Umm, what again is the criticism for crating meta account vs
| creating oculus account(without fb)? I think at this point
| whatever fb does it will be criticised?
| [deleted]
| ldehaan wrote:
| Yep, this is exactly it, they are going to let people use it
| freely and once meta crashes hard they'll force it back in just
| to lock vr customers to their trash platform so they can patch
| the heart bleed that is their userbase running away as fast as
| they can click. Every time a Facebook account is closed, a baby
| in California doesn't die of a cov9d vaccine. ;) <- post that
| comment and watch your twitter world melt :D
| lexpar wrote:
| This is really not a high quality comment.
| loeg wrote:
| No, this would be an Oculus-specific account. There are enough
| legitimate criticisms of Facebook that we don't have to go
| around inventing false ones.
|
| Edited to cite the announcement transcript[1]:
|
| > And as we've focused more on work, and frankly, as we've
| heard your feedback more broadly, we're on making it so you can
| log into Quest with _an account other than your personal
| Facebook account_.
|
| > ... I know this is a big deal for a lot of people. Not
| everyone wants their _social media profile linked_ to all these
| other experiences.
|
| [1]: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/meta-facebook-
| connect-2...
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| Would Facebook be physically prevented from ever accessing or
| linking to data on the Metafacebookulus account, ad vice
| versa?
|
| If not, sounds like a Facebook account by another name.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| It's literally the same company, why would it be prevented?
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| Exactly, so an "Oculus-specific account" would not
| actually be an account specific to Oculus, it would be a
| differently-branded Facebook account, too
| long_time_gone wrote:
| Because of the security and risk implication of not
| preventing it. Goldman Sachs is both an investment bank
| and an asset management firm, literally the same company.
| However, they have clear protocols in place to separate
| the two sides because otherwise the opportunities for
| impropriety are too high. I could see a similar argument
| for separating Facebook and Oculus accounts.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Sure, but Goldman Sachs business model isn't aggregating
| and selling data. Facebook's is.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| The fact that the two components of an analogy are not
| the same thing is the point of the analogy. If they were
| the same thing, the analogy would be useless.
|
| In this specific analogy, the point is, despite having
| different business models, society benefits from either
| conglomerate separating their respective two
| aforementioned business units.
| long_time_gone wrote:
| No, their businesses are managing money and taking
| companies public. They're overall revenue would benefit
| from aligning those businesses, but they aren't allowed
| to. They are kept separate because of the risks of having
| them together. The Facebook scenario is a different (but
| comparable) situation.
| [deleted]
| AlexandrB wrote:
| > No, this would be an Oculus-specific account.
|
| This is not stated anywhere. I don't see why Facebook
| couldn't create a Meta SSO that you can use for Facebook
| and/or Oculus and call it "job done". For them it's a
| win/win. Most people would choose to "migrate" their Facebook
| login to Meta. Those annoyed by this could just create a Meta
| account. Notably there's no mention of whether you'll need to
| use your real name for logging into Oculus as you do with
| Facebook. My bet is: probably.
| Closi wrote:
| > No, this would be an Oculus-specific account.
|
| Hmm, the statements you posted don't quite say that.
|
| I guess it's still possible that users could be required to
| register a "meta" account which is separate to your personal
| Facebook account, although you can sign into your personal
| Facebook account with your meta account via single sign on. I
| think this would technically meet their wording while also
| not fulfilling the spirit of what everyone wants.
|
| For instance, you can have a Google account that isn't linked
| to your personal Gmail account, because not everyone wants
| their search history linked to their email - just change
| Google to Meta, Gmail to Facebook and search history to
| social media.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Oculus no longer exists. It's Meta, which is The Facebook
| company.
| CharlesW wrote:
| And just to add a bit more color, Oculus-the-subsidiary
| became Oculus-the-brand in Sep 2018.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Why the fuck do I need to log into my monitor?! it's bad
| enough the driver demands a running application which tries
| to sell me shit and pushes me into a place I don't want to be
| at all. It's literally hijacking my computer.
| onion2k wrote:
| _Why the fuck do I need to log into my monitor?_
|
| Because you bought a system that only has apps from your
| monitor's app store available, and that means you have to
| prove who you are to use them.
|
| It's no different to phones, consoles, etc.
| filoleg wrote:
| > Because you bought a system that only has apps from
| your monitor's app store available, and that means you
| have to prove who you are to use them.
|
| Blatantly false. You can either play Oculus games (must,
| if you are playing without PC; basically the app store)
| or you can connect to PC and play any SteamVR games just
| like you would with any other headset (supported
| officially).
|
| So with Quest 2, I get to play both the Oculus-only
| standalone games made for the headset specifically, as
| well as any SteamVR games that my friends with other VR
| headsets might want to play together.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| False, I purchased a VR headset to use with Steam VR
| (mostly), but I fully expected it to work in a standard
| way, with understanding to the variations in the handheld
| controllers.
| q3k wrote:
| > It's no different to phones, consoles, etc.
|
| You can use a Nintendo Switch or an Android phone without
| an online account.
| tl wrote:
| Not really. Nintendo eShop and Google Play Service will
| dark pattern you towards having an account in cases where
| they don't outright require it like DLC expansions to the
| "physical" cartridge you "bought".
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| You can't install apps through "normal user" means on the
| Android phones I've had unless you add an account.
|
| De facto, that means you need an account.
|
| Yes, I know you can try to find copies of your banking
| apps on apkmirror and sideload, but... no. (Also,
| wouldn't that mean that you have to manually confirm
| every single app update, so a 10-minute button pushing
| session every week?)
| croes wrote:
| You can use via Link with a PC or side load apps, so
| Oculus apps aren't needed. Since when is it ok that I
| need an third party account to access my computer?
| smoldesu wrote:
| This is the iPhone-ized future we signed up for!
| playpause wrote:
| The Oculus isn't just a monitor, it's a complete computer
| system with its own OS. If you just want a VR headset that
| is purely a monitor, buy one of those.
| eli wrote:
| And an app store. It obviously needs some kind of login.
| arsome wrote:
| I can use an Android or iOS devices without logging into
| their respective app stores easily, hopefully they allow
| similar on Oculus.
| eli wrote:
| What would you do with it? Side load apps? The games in
| the app store are presumably the reason 99% of people buy
| it.
| croes wrote:
| This wouldn't change if it were a store account instead
| of a device account. Most people use google's play store
| but this doesn't mean every android device needs a
| mandatory google account.
| gpm wrote:
| On android - yes.
|
| Specifically I would sideload fdroid, and then install
| (free) apps from there since it doesn't need a login.
|
| Or maybe I'd (say, on windows) "sideload" steam, and
| install apps from there instead of from Oculus.
|
| The idea that the only place I can get apps from is the
| "official" appstore is ridiculous.
| gregallan wrote:
| Also MacOS and Windows have "App Stores" that you
| certainly don't need to be logged into.
| gpm wrote:
| The MacOS "App Store" (as in the thing they call the app
| store, rather than all the other ways you can pay for and
| install apps) does require you to login. Worse, they
| block updating the non-os software that came with your
| computer with logging into that app store.
| ryandrake wrote:
| I agree with OP for regular wired Oculus devices. They
| are essentially monitors, and I wouldn't expect to have
| to have an account in order to use a dumb peripheral. For
| the Quest, you're right, it's more like a computer system
| with OS, apps, etc. I'd still rather be able to use it
| without an account, and only create an account if I
| wanted to interact with online services like apps and
| games.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Still! why must I log in to simply download an app!?
| Perhaps _publishing_ an app is a more sensitive matter,
| then _maybe_ it 's worth validating things strictly
| behind closed doors... but to simply download and use
| software on a device I own, I can't fathom how we've
| slipped so far.
| bananabreakfast wrote:
| That's silly, you don't.
|
| An oculus is not a monitor, it's an entire game console
| that includes a screen. Are you this incredulous about
| having to log in to an iPad or a Switch?
| SantalBlush wrote:
| Yes, there was a time when we didn't need accounts for
| every piece of hardware we use.
|
| It is a fact of life that companies will impose more and
| more profit-maximizing inconveniences upon the customer
| as long as the customer is willing to accept them. It
| only stops when enough customers push back.
| pseudalopex wrote:
| Yes.
| jensensbutton wrote:
| You log into an ipad. What's the difference?
| nixpulvis wrote:
| I do not own an iPad. Also... do you really have to? I
| haven't used an iOS in a little bit now.
|
| Apple is hardly the model for technology we should be
| using these days. Their walled garden has rotten fruit
| and it doesn't even get you drunk, you simply fall ill.
| modeless wrote:
| You have to if you want to install any software. Even
| free apps from the app store. No side loading allowed.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| A massive network of cross-site tracking and a terrible
| track record for protecting personal information.
| [deleted]
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| I don't own an iPad, but I flashed my tablet with an
| Android Open Source Project ROM so that I have the option
| to not send data to anybody I don't want to.
|
| Is Facebook planning to let us do this? Or are they just
| changing the brand logo on the login page for their
| required login?
| ootsootsoots wrote:
| I use a pin code or thumbprint to unlock my iPad and
| login to Apples store
|
| I can root it and install alternative store
|
| What alternative software can I run on Occulus?
|
| That and all the extra engineering for managing users for
| business reasons not technical wastes real resources to
| prop up a technology company that isn't interested in
| novel discovery, but servicing contemporary business
| obligations
|
| If they're so smart and capable of pulling useful
| metadata off unstructured data, why do they need me to
| maintain a specific profile?
|
| Really kind of feels like they rely on having concrete
| data and the meta part is marketing
| BbzzbB wrote:
| You realize iOS roots are developed by third-party geeks
| and void your warranty (unless that changed in the years
| since I've interacted with iOS, but I'd be shocked)?
| Maybe we should indeed force hardware manufacturers to
| offer a rooting/open OS option by default, but it's a
| weird criticism when you start off the comment by licking
| Apple's boot. Further, Facebook actually does offer to
| open up your deprecated Oculus Go headset now that they
| are done with the 2 years of guaranteed support to its
| devs. As such, people can keep tinkering and keeping it
| up to date (Carmack's opening remarks yesterday address
| this) with the _help_ of Facebook. That puts them quite
| objectively ahead of Apple in this regard, the company
| which was fined in court [1] for draining older iPhone 's
| batteries and slowing them down thru software updates.
|
| Guaranteed all these people in this thread wouldn't be
| losing their shit over a hardware account if it wasn't
| from Facebook's holdco. Forcing a Facebook account was
| creepy, a dedicated Oculus (well, Meta) account is normal
| and defensible.
|
| [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/tech/apple-battery-
| settlement...
| jensensbutton wrote:
| > I can root it and install alternative store
|
| Well if you can root an Oculus you can do whatever you
| want there as well. That's the whole point of... root.
| evilduck wrote:
| I mean, thats a complete lie. Got anything else?
| jensensbutton wrote:
| Oh? The overwhelming majority of people don't log into
| Apple accounts when setting up their ipads?
|
| Do better.
| evilduck wrote:
| You can just click the skip button and use an iOS device
| without any account. Whether or not people want to do
| this is an entirely different conversation but Apple does
| not require it.
|
| You do better and stop moving the goalposts and lying.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| Heya, I noticed that, in responding, you switched your
| premise from, "You log into an ipad", to, 'The
| overwhelming majority of people log into their apple
| accounts when setting up their ipads'.
|
| Since this is disingenuous on your part, telling the
| person you responded to, to "do better" seems
| hypocritical.
| jensensbutton wrote:
| I wonder who you think I meant by "you"? Did you assume I
| specifically know the parent in person and how they use
| their ipad at home? If so, and I can only assume you did
| otherwise your comment would be nonsense, I can see how
| that would be confusing and seem disingenuous to you.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| If you're suggesting that by "you", you meant "The
| overwhelming majority of people who set up ipads", that
| doesn't sound like a very credible retroactive
| explanation.
|
| Like, it's confusing for sure, but not on the part of the
| reader. It doesn't even make sense. Most people don't
| even _have_ ipads.
|
| And even if they did, you're basically saying, "this
| small subset of self-selecting people who are okay with
| their tablet requiring a login to work, are okay with
| their devices requiring a login to work", which isn't
| very convincing to others, either.
|
| And even if _that_ made sense, 'these other people are
| okay with it' is probably one of the weakest possible
| arguments in favor of /anything/.
| jensensbutton wrote:
| > this small subset of self-selecting people who are okay
| with their tablet requiring a login to work, are okay
| with their devices requiring a login to work
|
| I'll go ahead and assume English isn't your first
| language. I was saying the vast majority of people who
| own ipads are fine with needing to login to an account to
| get the most out of it. Doesn't seem like a particularly
| controversial statement.
|
| Now go ahead and find some way in which the above
| sentence is technically incorrect, but you're starting to
| look silly.
| [deleted]
| croes wrote:
| That's FB's claim at the moment and after so many tricks and
| lies by FB I'm pessimistic. Their contract excuse to
| circumvent the GDPR does not make them credible.
| iforgetti wrote:
| Does Meta provide a guarantee that data won't be unified
| between Facebook and Oculus accounts ever? If not, what is
| the value of this distinction beyond PR?
| Shish2k wrote:
| I'd assume this is the case, but is there actually any evidence
| either way, or are we all just speculating?
| blitzar wrote:
| I am speculating here - but it looks a whole lot like a move
| to head off anti trust
| BbzzbB wrote:
| It looks like a company that's been talking about this
| direction for ~6 years already which decided to precipitate
| the rebranded holdco (and maybe speed of R&D/capex) in
| light of recent controversies. Bit of this, bit of that.
| loeg wrote:
| Transcript[1]:
|
| > And as we've focused more on work, and frankly, as we've
| heard your feedback more broadly, we're on making it so you
| can log into Quest with _an account other than your personal
| Facebook account_.
|
| > ... I know this is a big deal for a lot of people. Not
| everyone wants their _social media profile linked_ to all
| these other experiences.
|
| To me this strongly suggests that it is a separate account,
| and is not required to be linked to a Facebook account.
|
| [1]: https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/meta-facebook-
| connect-2...
| piva00 wrote:
| I'd love if they clarified if not being directly linked to
| a Facebook account would mean it's not being harvested and
| shadow profiling the user to end up linking to whatever is
| their definition of a "person" in their ad systems.
|
| This corporate-speak makes me very cynical and I hate it
| but given FB's history I would like a completely clear
| statement that data harvested from Oculus is not
| immediately linked to an identity of myself in some system
| of the FB colossus.
| krinchan wrote:
| I think the other key feature they're angling for is
| suspension or banning of a Facebook account for whatever
| reason will no longer cost you your entire Oculus
| library.
|
| It's a very long standing problem. Many people created
| new Facebook accounts just for Oculus, bought maybe
| $80-$100 worth of games, and then got their Facebook
| account banned[*]. There is pretty much no recourse but
| to whine on the Oculus subreddit till the community rep
| escalated them past tier 1 support. Even then, the result
| would be "We've refunded your purchases please use your
| actual Facebook account."
|
| It's probably gotten bad with charge backs and returned
| headsets that they're finally doing something about it.
|
| [*]: The common speculation is that this would trip a
| similar heuristic to "Egg Accounts" on Twitter and would
| be banned without recourse because that particular piece
| of Facebook's automation didn't have visibility into the
| Oculus-side purchase activity. The assumption by Facebook
| being the account didn't have any content so if it was an
| actual human they'd just create a new account.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Unless it's part of some legally binding document I
| wouldn't trust it anyway. Despite the name change they're
| still Facebook. Data harvesting is their business.
| Uberphallus wrote:
| Without giving much detail, where I work many accounts from
| different businesses aren't linked... in customer facing
| systems. But internally everything is linked, and well
| linked (for good reasons). FB will profile you even more
| even though you can use a different email.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| zzzeek wrote:
| im sure the ongoing FTC investigations have nothing to do with
| this
| moron4hire wrote:
| The biggest questions (and anxiety) that I have right now is
| regarding the Oculus for Business (OfB) program.
|
| I develop a social VR experience for students of foreign
| languages. It's an activity we provide in addition to our
| traditional classroom based instruction. Our students are
| primarily government employees, in diplomatic, defense, or
| intelligence roles.
|
| When the pandemic hit, we had a huge problem. We needed to pivot
| our experience away from in-person and figure out a solution to
| continue development and testing with remote learning. So we
| built a new teleconferencing feature into the app and started
| shipping headsets directly to the student. They use them a couple
| of times for their classes and then ship it back.
|
| This pivot also came at the exact same time that we had the first
| kerfuffle over the Quest 2 requiring a Facebook login, which made
| it a complete non-starter for organizations like US intelligence
| agencies.
|
| Our product is a WebXR experience, which can technically run on
| any headset on the market. Any sort of PC tethered devices would
| mean we would have to also ship a gaming laptop to the students,
| because we can't count on their PC being powerful enough to run a
| VR headset at all. That would be significantly more expensive and
| would overcomplicate the setup for students. We can't ship Pico
| Neo headsets because their employers are fearful of the Chinese
| ownership of the company. We can't ship Vive Focus devices
| because, well, the lenses suck and have made even me, a hardened
| VR user, sick. The OfB Quest 2s that we have are really the best
| user experience we can provide right now.
|
| With Oculus for Business, the users of the headsets did not need
| any sort of login whatsoever. It was the best case scenario for
| us. WebXR nominally keeps us from being platform-locked-in, and
| the enterprise licensing terms keep our customers happy. I say
| "nominally", because the only other, realistic option for it
| right now is PC tethered devices. All of the non-Quest
| standalones only have an ancient version of Firefox available as
| a browser. Mozilla laid off all of their VR developers and has
| not had anyone releasing updates to Firefox Reality in over a
| year. There are spec changes and defects that they've not kept up
| with that are significant impediments to continued development.
| On the other hand, Facebook builds a version of Chromium as the
| browser on the Quest, that they keep very up to date and have
| some excellent performance optimizations built in.
|
| But Meta is ending new OfB purchases at the end of this year [0].
| There is a Quest for Business (QfB) program that they have
| announced, but it won't be generally available until at least
| 2023. In an FAQ [1], they talk about options for migration.
| Migrate the existing OfB headsets to use the consumer Quest 2
| software, migrate to QfB "when it becomes available" (starting a
| closed beta later this year, going to open beta "sometime in
| 2022"), or continue using OfB (which means no system updates in
| the near future [2]).
|
| What is not clear is what that means regarding headset users
| being required to have some sort of device login. They say QfB
| will have "Work accounts" to log in instead of a personal
| Facebook account. But what, exactly, does that mean? Are these
| accounts that we can provision per headset, so users can check
| headsets out of a locker or we can ship to the students and they
| can just use them? Or will they have to be per-user accounts?
|
| I can abide per-headset accounts. Our clients are not going to
| abide per-actual-user accounts.
|
| This has been a frustrating experience, to say the least. I keep
| hoping Microsoft will wake up one day and realize that waveguide
| displays are stupid, rip them out of the HoloLens, put in some
| opaque displays, and give us a standalone VR headset, with a
| decent browser, that my USG customers can abide. But they aren't
| listening to me.
|
| [0] https://developer.oculus.com/blog/evolving-from-oculus-
| for-b...
|
| [1] https://business.oculus.com/faq/
|
| [2] OfB devices are currently on v28 of the system software,
| whereas the consumer SKUs are on v33, which has significant
| defect fixes and performance improvements. They've stated that
| v29 will be the last version deployed for OfB, so that's pretty
| annoying.
| spywaregorilla wrote:
| Meta's pulling out for a bit while it finds a bigger strap on.
| planb wrote:
| > During the recent Facebook outage, certain Oculus devices were
| effectively rendered useless due to their inability to connect to
| the larger Facebook platform. It's unclear if that specific
| incident is partially to blame for this change.
|
| No, it's absolutely clear that this has nothing to do with the
| outage. WhatsApp and Instagram were down too. Their
| infrastructure does not care if the parent corp is called
| Facebook or Meta.
| peter-m80 wrote:
| It now requires a Meta account
|
| (jk)
| Uberphallus wrote:
| You joke but that's literally what I expect.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| That's exactly what this is. They killed off the Oculus brand
| and now it's Meta. You will need a Meta account. I'd be
| surprised if it doesn't use the Facebook auth system with a
| different skin.
| 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
| Oculus won't require an account? Where have I heard that one
| before... This is just another attempt at being clever (and
| dishonest), isn't it?
|
| "Sure we said it won't require a FACEBOOK account, but Meta is
| something totally different and <insert more marketing
| sentences>. And because of that, a Meta account is required."
| AstroDogCatcher wrote:
| Too little, too late.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| Wake me up when the resolution isn't garbage. I have two Oculus
| kits collecting dust due to facebook and the fact that looking at
| my monitor is still a more pleasurable experience.
| Cromation wrote:
| Isnt there a hack out there that removes the facebook account
| requirement?
| stevespang wrote:
| Zuck going "all in" with VR headsets and FacePlant.
| pitched wrote:
| I have an old grandfathered Oculus account and haven't upgraded
| to Quest 2 because I don't want to link my Facebook. If this ends
| up being true, they've made at least one extra sale.
| senectus1 wrote:
| if its true i'll buy them for my kids xmas pressies.
| gregjw wrote:
| Shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.
| chadlavi wrote:
| In the future: "good news! Your oculus, Instagram, WhatsApp and
| Facebook accounts are all merging into a single Meta account
| later this month"
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| I will be a Meta account in the future.
| [deleted]
| someperson wrote:
| Great news! Mandatory Facebook account was a massive "own goal".
|
| I can't believe it took this long for the policy to be reversed.
|
| The damage to Oculus among enthusiasts was huge. But I guess the
| Oculus brand is going away anyway leaving just 'Meta' and
| 'Quest'.
| melvinmt wrote:
| Oculus will also no longer be known as Oculus:
| https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/28/facebook-errr-meta-uncerem...
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| So it sounds like they did some focus groups and figured out
| that no one wanted a "Facebook Quest"
| mrfinn wrote:
| Terrible decision, Oculus is a well known brand, the name is
| catchy, it has good reputation. So, Facebook decides, let's
| kill off the brand and replace it with. something completely
| unknown!
| ldehaan wrote:
| Ohsnap am I gonna get my kids one now? No. Hell no. Facebook Is
| Trash, I'll never give a cent to them on purpose and do my
| damndest to bring it down, put it down, throw Facebook away
| whenever I get a chance to educate someone. Im getting the G2
| headset baby! If you want to Easily make the world a better
| place, never give Facebook your money. You don't need to join
| Greenpeace or sort recycling, just Get Rid Of Facebook.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Yeah, all those poor people who can't afford ethical headsets
| can _go fuck themselves!_ I 'm getting a fully loaded headset
| with all my money, I simply can't _imagine_ being unfortunate
| enough to get locked out of the Metaverse!
| ta988 wrote:
| For me it sounds like they are still requiring a form of login so
| some sort of oauth. And they probably track you with that anyway.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| Only to add it later on once they capture enough additional
| users.
| deltron3030 wrote:
| The sunken cost strategy.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| I haven't been following this closely, but what's the state of
| this ridiculous requirement on the Rift S?
| kgc wrote:
| To be replaced with Meta account?
| newhouseb wrote:
| Mark's statement was worded carefully in that he stated access
| would not longer require your _personal_ Facebook account. I
| interpreted this to mean you'll still need a Facebook account,
| but it would be through a Facebook for Work account (although I'm
| not sure if today these are distinct entities).
| snarf21 wrote:
| I assumed that you would be able to have a new Oculus only
| account. However, all you really have is an Oculus (by
| Hatebook) account. They promised to keep IG and WA separate
| too, so this is a bit of "Hey regulator, no it is a different
| account" non-sense signaling.
| hellweaver666 wrote:
| nah, they'll create a new single sign on service for Meta and
| you'll be required to have a Meta account (and Facebook and
| Instagram and WhatsApp will all also require a Meta account).
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| This is the real answer, your shadow profile will become your
| public profile. No more pretending your IG and WhatsApp are
| siloed.
|
| More just instead of a star with each on a spoke and FB in
| the middle, Meta will be in the middle and FB just another
| spoke.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| Yeah. This article seems to be jumping to conclusions based on
| a vague statement sandwiched between a bunch of PR claptrap
| about "hearing feedback". The actual statement could mean
| anything from the return of standalone Oculus accounts to just
| unifying SSO under a "Meta" account instead of a "Facebook"
| one. The only concrete detail was support for Facebook "work"
| accounts for logging into Oculus.
|
| > and frankly, as we've heard your feedback more broadly, we're
| working on making it so you can log into Quest with an account
| other than your personal Facebook account. We're starting to
| test support for work accounts soon, and we're working on
| making a broader shift here within the next year. I know this
| is a big deal for a lot of people. Not everyone wants their
| social media profile linked to all these other experiences and
| I get that, especially as the metaverse expands.
| agar wrote:
| This article covers it more completely, with additional
| clarifications from Zuckerberg:
| https://www.theverge.com/22749919/mark-zuckerberg-
| facebook-m...
|
| > There were all these subtle ways in which, because the
| company brand was Facebook, a lot of stuff flowed through
| Facebook and the Facebook app in ways that may have not been
| optimal. Facebook is still clearly the app that people use
| the most out of all the ones that we do. But there are people
| who want to just use WhatsApp or want to just use Instagram,
| or just want to have Quest and be in VR or AR and not have to
| use these things.
|
| > So I think it's about being able to pick and choose which
| of the services you want to use and know that, no matter what
| happens to your Facebook account or your Instagram account,
| you're still going to have all the content that you bought in
| VR or all your virtual goods. You can set up an avatar and it
| can be tied to one of those accounts or could just be tied to
| your overall identity across the different family of apps.
| And you can use it in all these places if you want. I bet
| that's going to be pretty powerful.
| throwaway123x2 wrote:
| Would anyone recommend the Oculus Quest for getting exercise?
| This might be what pushed me to get it.
| GuardianCaveman wrote:
| I haven't used it for that purpose but I follow Alanah Pearce
| and she swears by it for helping her drop weight after she
| gained a bunch because of an injury. I've heard a few other
| anecdotes about the app she used helping others too called
| supernatural. Also the boxing ones too.
| ilarum wrote:
| Yes, I recommend it. Beat Saber and Thrill of the Fight are
| great.
| machiaweliczny wrote:
| Boxing, Audio Trip, Pistol Whip and even Beat Saber are all
| nice
| mrfinn wrote:
| Quest 2 owner here, "The thrill of the fight" has been my most
| amazing related discovery. Just 20 minutes playing before
| shower and you'll be sweating like there's no tomorrow. First
| days, if not already in gym, you are gonna feel for sure the
| aches.
| shafyy wrote:
| Yes, for sure. Much more fun than going to the gym or doing
| boring exercises at home. Main use would be cardio and stuff
| like squats etc, not weight lifting. Although Carmack said (in
| his FB Connect keynote yesterday) that they will soon be
| fitness apps that incorporate weights as well.
| randoglando wrote:
| Carmack said (although he wouldn't recommend it due to safety
| concerns etc.) that he ties arm weights while playing Beat
| Saber!
| philjohn wrote:
| Beat saber is a surprisingly good cardio workout - lots of
| squatting, moving around etc.
| Iefthandrule wrote:
| Does sweat not affect the Oculus Quest?
| kroltan wrote:
| Not a Quest (I've used both and think it's the same
| answer), but with the HTC Vive the foam pads do a good job
| of not letting sweat get to your eyes.
|
| In general, the facemasks are pretty tight around the eyes,
| and the sweat glands are on the forehead, so it doesn't
| affect operation.
|
| Of course, it still gets gunky and you'll want to regularly
| clean the facemasks if you do any exercising in VR.
|
| The Quest specifically has the face mask directly
| integrated to the spacer, so you have to remove the whole
| thing to clean it, but it's doable.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| You can buy little covers to keep the sweat from stinking
| up the device but yeah sweat is a small issue.
| ENOTTY wrote:
| Facebook could just as easily change the policy again. Meh
| chaostheory wrote:
| I believe EU laws are the main driver for this change.
|
| As an aside, the Quest 2 would have been a break away hit, if
| they didn't make the FB login a requirement last year though
| shafyy wrote:
| It's crazy that they still sold that many, considering that
| it's not sold in Germany, one of the biggest markets in the
| world for them.
| jensensbutton wrote:
| Was still a breakaway hit.
| jcpham2 wrote:
| Absolutely a favorite in our household. Regrettable that it
| requires a Facebook account.
| chaostheory wrote:
| By break away hit, I meant more in line with Nintendo
| Switch sales. I doubt it's even close due to the login
| requirement. They lost a lot of word of mouth marketing
| from would-be evangelists. It's near impossible to defend
| Facebook / Meta.
|
| The Facebook login was unnecessary friction since they
| didn't even take advantage of it from the start. It wasn't
| until a few months ago when I could even find my friends
| from Facebook.
|
| I do love my Quest 2 though.
| [deleted]
| sowbug wrote:
| Glad to hear about this. I sued Facebook in a California small-
| claims court to rescind my purchase of the Quest 1 (and all
| accessories and game purchases) after I declined the change in
| ToS adding the FB account requirement. It took a while
| (negotiated with their customer support, then sued, then finally
| months later got an intelligent response), but we settled for
| what I asked for. I can't be the only one who got my money back.
| I liked the product except for the added account requirement, and
| I would now consider buying again.
| schaefer wrote:
| You are my hero.
| Diederich wrote:
| Agree with the other reply to you: I'd love to hear more about
| the nuts and bolts of this if you have a few spare minutes!
| djbusby wrote:
| Curious how much time you spent and total time to resolve. Can
| you share?
| sowbug wrote:
| I used to practice law, so the process is a little more
| natural for me. Summary:
|
| 1. I read the terms of service that I originally agreed to.
| Found a requirement to first negotiate any dispute with their
| general counsel in good faith. So I wrote to them explaining
| that I declined the change in ToS terms, and asked for a
| refund of everything I'd purchased in connection with the
| headset, plus the dollar amount that it added up to. Sent by
| registered mail. Waited a few months, got no response. This
| was summer 2020.
|
| 2. Filed a support ticket basically saying the same thing. I
| got very prompt responses but of course they were templates
| -- sorry, 30-day return window has expired, please create FB
| account, etc.
|
| 3. Drafted up the small-claims complaint. This is actually a
| very easy and short form in California.
|
| 4. Sent a courtesy copy of the complaint to Oculus general
| counsel. This can sometimes get their attention and resolve
| things right away without involving the courts. No response.
|
| 5. Filed the complaint, then served Oculus/FB at their
| Sacramento address for their registered agent for service of
| process. This cost something like $100 (filing + service).
|
| 6. Got a summer 2021 court date.
|
| 7. Sent them another courtesy reminder that the court date
| was approaching and asked to resolve before trial.
|
| 8. In the late spring of 2021 got some activity on the
| support ticket saying sorry for the delay, please dismiss the
| case, we'll send you the $$$ plus a box to ship back the
| goggles.
|
| 9. I accepted their offer, shipped the stuff back, got the
| $$$, and filed a dismissal of the case.
|
| Total wall clock time > 1 year. Actual human time on the case
| probably 5 hours. Out of pocket expenses about $100, which I
| added to the settlement demand, and which they paid. So I
| ended up back where I started before the Oculus Quest
| purchase, except for the time I lost writing the court papers
| and support/legal communications. Which is what I wanted and
| expected.
|
| As I hope you can tell, I wasn't angry or out for revenge. I
| just didn't want the FB account requirement, and I especially
| didn't like that they tried to change the contract terms
| after we had a deal. It was just a business deal to me, and
| that takes pretty much all the emotion out of it, which can
| make many legal cases easier to resolve.
| djbusby wrote:
| Awesome and detailed response. Appreciate you taking the
| time.
| Cpoll wrote:
| What's the worst-case scenario here? What would have
| happened if they met you in court? What would have happened
| if they won?
| redis_mlc wrote:
| It would have cost the company thousands in legal fees,
| subjected the company to wide-ranging interrogation under
| oath and the case entered in public records.
|
| It's the latter two that really gets their attention, as
| a customer dispute escalated into the business affairs of
| the top of the company where there's actual consequences.
|
| For him, some time and possibility of dismissal.
| hairofadog wrote:
| I'm a little fuzzy on why people are upset at the idea of
| linking their Oculus devices to a Facebook account, but not to
| a _Meta_ or Oculus account, which are surely part of the same
| data ecosystem. Genuinely asking, is there some reason to
| expect less - I don 't know, _zuckerberginess_ - from Meta or
| Oculus than from Facebook?
| nickthegreek wrote:
| If your facebook account gets banned for some reason, you
| would lose your entire paid game library and would not be
| able to use the hardware you spent your cash on.
| arthur_sav wrote:
| Bingo. I don't want my online persona to be tied to one
| account or company.
|
| Big tech companies are pushing for a 360 approach where all
| you media, entertainment, work and even finance happens on
| their platform.
|
| But what happens when one of their "AI" bots flags you for
| some arbitrary reason or they simply don't like you? Google
| is notorious for automatically banning accounts and it's
| virtually impossible to get a resolution. Bots ban you and
| bots "answer" you plea for resolution "We've looked into
| the issue and you're still banned. Bye."
|
| So yeah, facebook bundling all their services under one
| account is not acceptable.
| Digit-Al wrote:
| That's the big problem with these massive tech companies.
| They want to suck more and more of your life into their
| ecosystems, but they don't want to take on the
| responsibility that comes with it.
|
| When losing your account just meant not being able to
| look at a few emails or social media their attitude was
| (almost) acceptable, but when losing access to your
| account could mean not being able to pay for things
| (apple pay, google pay), not being able to access stuff
| you've paid for (any digital content purchases through
| the account), possibly not even being able to access your
| phone; then it becomes a more serious responsibility and
| just suspending an account for arbitrary reasons is no
| longer acceptable.
|
| Unfortunately, the tech companies don't seem to have got
| the message and still regularly ruin people's lives by
| banning accounts for no discernible reason and giving no
| recourse to getting them back.
|
| I think if they are going to continue on the course they
| are on there needs to be some sort of campaign to force
| them to take more responsibility and to give people a
| proper channel to get bans investigated. Enforced by some
| sort of ombudsman or something.
|
| Another option could be that if an account is banned for
| ToS violations the account holder can still log in and
| access "essential" services such as payments, plus have
| read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so they
| can still rescue their lives.
|
| I would say a mix of both will be essential.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| > Another option could be that if an account is banned
| for ToS violations the account holder can still log in
| and access "essential" services such as payments, plus
| have read-only access to stuff like emails and photos so
| they can still rescue their lives.
|
| In some countries (France?) requires that online
| purchased products are transferable like in the real
| world. Mostly this is used for game resale, but it should
| enable you/the company to transfer purchases to a new
| account. "You banned me, but give my wife the games I
| bought"
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| This has actually happened, too! I remember a big article
| about it on HN. Unfortunately I have no time to scrounge it
| up, but perhaps someone else remembers and can link to it.
| elliekelly wrote:
| IIRC there's also a similar lawsuit against Apple.
| Someone who had purchased quite a lot of content with
| their Apple ID had their account suspended. I don't
| recall the details either but I do remember reading their
| complaint and thinking they had quite an interesting and
| creative angle to get around Apple's TOS that purport to
| allow Apple to cancel your account at any time for any
| reason.
|
| Edit: Thread discussing the Apple ID suit
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26890055
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Sure, but that's true whether it's a Facebook account, an
| Oculus account, a Quest account, or a Meta account, right?
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| Isn't that true for Apple, Google, Amazon and Microsoft as
| well? I have games on Xbox, movies in iTunes, books and
| audiobooks with Amazon. I've hedged my bets but it still
| would be non-trivial loss for me.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| This is one of the few good thins about streaming only.
| Apple Music ban you? Switch to Spotify!
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Now your Meta account can get banned for some reason. I
| assume the ToS will be very similar. It's a platform, you
| can say things on it, you can potentially abuse people on
| it.
|
| There may come a day where the world is utterly broken for
| the unaugmented, just a confusing sterile landscape
| camouflaged in QR codes. Getting kicked off the Metaverse
| will be a terrifying form of exile. But it will all be a
| private company's decision, so that will make it OK.
| 14 wrote:
| It is still better to keep as many accounts separate as
| possible. At least right now if you get banned from
| Facebook your google account doesn't get banned also. And
| though I have never been banned from Facebook I wouldn't
| want to tie real life game purchases to a social media
| account where saying the wrong thing might end you up in
| trouble. Hard pass.
| Liquix wrote:
| Not being banned is nice, but keeping your accounts
| separate does nothing to prevent the data points you
| mentioned being linked, especially within the Meta
| ecosystem. Even outside of the ecosystem, there are
| billion dollar companies that are very very good at tying
| together all your 'unrelated' accounts/data points and
| selling these packages to the highest bidder. It's
| prudent to assume that big brother and anyone else who
| cared enough to look could link said activity to you.
| hairofadog wrote:
| I keep thinking of that scene from The Beatles' _Help_ in
| which they all walk into the same apartment through four
| different doors.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx_7xjpySK0
| jeffwask wrote:
| In most gaming spaces, I would rather not give people the
| amount of info associated with my Facebook account
| emsy wrote:
| It still sucks, but there is no obligation for your real name
| and it shouldn't be that hard find an anonymous payment
| method.
| tomc1985 wrote:
| Why do we need an account anyway??
|
| How about ... no accounts.
| pronlover723 wrote:
| This is a problem in general (not just FB) but, here are some
| apps I'd like to run on a VR device (Quest) but I don't want
| FB/Meta or anyone else to record that I'm running them or how
| often.
|
| NSFW
|
| https://www.patreon.com/meshedvr
|
| https://sexgames.citor3.com/
|
| http://www.illusion.jp/preview/honey2_dx/
|
| This is also a reason I will personally never buy an adult
| game from Steam. I don't want my gamer account and my sexual
| preferences to be linked.
|
| Let me also add that inside out tracking means effectively
| the device is filming me in various states of undress and I
| have to trust that they aren't collecting any of that data
| for "quality assurance" etc...
|
| And with FB/Meta, that same data is data that's used to
| connect me with my Mom and family on FB. No, just, no!
| suprfnk wrote:
| > zuckerberginess
|
| Zuckiness, if you will.
| na85 wrote:
| Zuckery.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Dumb Zuck.
| [deleted]
| georgeecollins wrote:
| It's unknown what a Meta account will be, but I can explain
| the difference between a FB account and an Oculus one.
|
| Having an Oculus account was pretty much like having a Steam
| account. It keeps track of your devices, your purchases, and
| you get emails or notifications (if you enable it)about
| products it thinks you want. Not perfect, but an a tradeoff I
| will accept for great devices and a good service.
|
| Having to log into FB means you have to create an FB account,
| and they try to stop you from setting up a fake one not
| connected to your real phone number and emails. Using your
| device will mean that sometimes you have to log into FB which
| can be a real hassle on your home browser or phone. You have
| to think about leaving cookies, not leaving certain apps on
| your phone, particularly if you are on Android, and if you
| are a Quest 2 developer you are an Android developer so all
| the security questions are x2.
|
| Plus, FB probably keeps this account you set up just to use
| your Oculus device and they post to it every time you buy a
| game or maybe every time you get an achievement. I have no
| idea if anyone actually has the misfortune to see those
| posts, but I wonder if they collect money on ads that are
| served to the accounts that have no other activity than
| automated Oculus posts. Someone here would know.
|
| I love the Quest 2 and I am really happy FB is doing this.
| Thank you FB for this.
| kerng wrote:
| This entire rebranding is just a stunt to steer away from
| the mess Facebook creates in our society - it's still the
| same people in charge, even worse the Facebook people are
| moving more and more over to RL teams - so absolutley
| nothing will change, it will actually get worse as Facebook
| culture takes over.
|
| Maybe some fun startup like Magic Leap or maybe Snap
| rebrands to Antimeta.
| georgeecollins wrote:
| I don't disagree, but keep in mind that any VR headset is
| probably going to involve an account and a login. When I
| download a game from Nintendo or Valve I am signing up
| for something and giving them personal info.
|
| We are going to have to strike some balances. It's really
| annoying to have FB (or anyone) mandate that you join a
| multi-platform surveillance ecosystem to use their
| hardware. On the other hand, a platform with a digital
| library-- like say a kindle-- requires a login and some
| personal info. We just need to set some limits so that
| companies don't abuse these relationships.
| sbilstein wrote:
| admittedly a very personal reason but I _don't_ want to be
| able to log in to facebook. Each property of theirs has it's
| own flavor but I personally find facebook with its treasure
| trove of decade old memories and connections to people i
| haven't seen in ages to be a bit of a despair and depression
| pit.
|
| I deleted my account specifically cause I felt like "why am I
| still looking at this stuff?"
|
| I would love to be able to use oculus or instagram (which i
| can now) without an FB account. Recently I created an account
| to use ad manager for my job and it's been really annoying
| how many friends (from the past) I get suggested and how much
| the algo seems to want to rebuild my old account...
| greggman3 wrote:
| I bought a Quest 2, three weeks ago. Tried to set it up.
| Already have a Rift S with an Oculus account. To use the Quest
| 2 required me to switch my Oculus account to FB. (Not gonna
| happen). I tried 8 times to create a new FB account, it failed
| the first 7 (no idea why, nothing about the data I entered was
| strange). When it finally worked the device would not pair with
| my iPhone6S+ (which I used as it's on a different Apple account
| than my FB and FB app). It failed to pair which was enough for
| me to just say "f this" and I took it back.
|
| If they drop me having to associate my Quest usage with my FB
| account I'll be happy to go buy one again.
| blowski wrote:
| During lockdown, my son's school delivered lots of material
| through Facebook. Despite quitting 8 years ago, I signed up
| again. I didn't add any friends or make any posts, though,
| and within days the account was blocked. When I tried to sign
| up again, it said my phone number was blocked. I contacted
| the "you've blocked my account in error" service twice,
| submitted documents - didn't hear anything back.
| closetohome wrote:
| I think this speaks to my issue. Facebook is far too ban-
| happy and obsessed with verifiable identity for me to ever
| be comfortable associating it with an expensive piece of
| hardware.
| fartcannon wrote:
| How many frogs will fall for the scorpions plan?
| tempodox wrote:
| We know the answer to that: Billions.
| Cromation wrote:
| Wouldnt trust them. I'd follow the hack recently put out that
| gave you access without needing an account. Only thing you lose
| is access to their social media related functions if I remember
| correctly
| 74d-fe6-2c6 wrote:
| I'm confused. Is this valid as of now? As in ... I can buy an OQ2
| and use it without an FB accunt?
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