[HN Gopher] Apple acquires classical music streaming service Pri...
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Apple acquires classical music streaming service Primephonic
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 315 points
Date : 2021-08-30 16:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| igammarays wrote:
| Apple Music is now becoming an experience totally unlike any
| other, what with this, lossless audio, spatial audio and the
| whole AirPods ecosystem -- nothing else compares. When this
| classical service comes out I think it might be the last push I
| need to drop Spotify, because even though I'm not an audiophile,
| I want to be able to accurately find and curate classical music.
| dominotw wrote:
| i have the whole setup but i cannot tell the difference. Their
| dolby demo kind of seems like its something but i honestly
| don't listen that actively to notice.
|
| I miss 'discover weekly', collaborative playlists , spotify
| curated playlists, on repeat ect.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| For me it is the discography view that Spotify has. They
| buried it in the most recent update, but I recently found
| that none of the competition has it.
|
| That and it turns out that Apple's windows software is still
| a bit of a dog after all these years.
| villasv wrote:
| To me, lossless is mostly like organic food. It's about
| knowing that its origin is pure, even though I can't really
| taste the difference.
| threeseed wrote:
| On revealing equipment you can absolutely tell the
| difference.
|
| I own a pair of Focal Clear and on a number of songs the
| previous AAC encoding would exhibit artifacts and sound a
| lot less crisp.
| thom wrote:
| Not sure if 'discover weekly' does more, and there are still
| huge unexplored areas of music recommendation, but the weekly
| recommended playlists on Apple Music have been wonderful for
| me. I add music to my library faster than I can listen to it
| at this point, and I've discovered bands in my 40s that I
| hold as close to my heart as those I discovered as a
| teenager.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| The classical music on Apple Music is really awesome IMO.
| gwd wrote:
| They've got a good selection, but the Siri search leaves a
| lot to be desired. "Hey Siri, play Beethoven's 5th." "Okay,
| here's Beethoven, Symphony Number 6, Movement 3, Allegro
| Whatevero." ???
| yati wrote:
| I gave up on it after the free trial. The search extremely
| shitty for anything except popular Western music, and oh the
| recommendations! You like some Shiv Kumar Sharma? How about
| also trying $random_hiphop_dude?
|
| YT Music has its flaws, but there is simply nothing that comes
| close to music discovery there.
| nudgeee wrote:
| Whoa nuts. I was a beta tester for Primephonic streaming v1 back
| in 2017. For context, Primephonic was a spin out from the
| classical music label Pentatone. Primephonic initially focused on
| hq downloads (circa 2015), cataloguing and recommendations before
| moving into streaming and launching apps ~2018.
| dweekly wrote:
| It will be interesting to see if others are similarly taken off
| the table. I've been tremendously impressed by the Berlin
| Philharmonik app, for instance; they've made a subscription
| service available on nearly every platform (AppleTV, iOS,
| Android, and even including the random Sony BluRay player I got
| for $35 on Amazon). The music is live-streamed with HD video like
| you were there in the hall.
|
| Have folks seen other classical apps or venues with a savvy
| approach like this?
| fmakunbound wrote:
| Perhaps IDAGO?
| disqard wrote:
| I have been seriously considering paying for the Berlin
| Philharmonik subscription/access. My main use-case would be to
| listen to their archives of performances.
|
| Do you recommend it? Also, does it allow you to "buffer" (save
| offline) some content at all?
| dmbaggett wrote:
| If you're looking to stay off Apple Music, Idagio is good. (I'm
| not affiliated with them, other than being a happy customer.)
| cbfrench wrote:
| I can second this. I've been fairly impressed with Idagio in
| the years I've been using it. My only real gripe with it is
| that it used to be much easier to glance through a composer's
| works by genre when looking at the composer's page. Now that
| feature is buried a couple of menus down. Otherwise, the audio
| quality is good for a streaming service, and the catalog is
| extensive.
|
| (At one point they were testing a feature where you could
| compare recordings of the same piece. It would effectively
| allow you to switch between pieces at the exact same moment in
| the particular passage you were listening to. It was great, and
| I'm sad they never rolled it out. That feature alone would have
| made the app worth the monthly subscription.)
| eggoa wrote:
| My gripe is the 1/2 second pause between tracks, even when
| they're supposed to blend together, like between 3rd and 4th
| movements of Beethoven's 5th. Otherwise it's awesome.
| leokennis wrote:
| When I tried Idagio about a year ago their catalogue consisted
| of "second rate" labels for a large part. There was some
| DG/Harmonia Mundi/Sony but mostly releases by lesser known
| labels. Is that still the case?
| kemiller wrote:
| I've been wishing for one of the major services to take classical
| seriously for decades. This is probably good news and one fewer
| sub I need to maintain.
| nightpool wrote:
| "We are working on an amazing new classical music experience from
| Apple for early next year, but unfortunately, the Primephonic
| service will be taken offline starting September 7. You may
| continue to use it at no charge until then."
|
| Wow, that must be pretty annoying for subscribers! The service
| will go away starting September, with no timeline on replacement
| except a nebulous "early next year" (probably June?). Why not
| just keep the old thing up until the new thing is ready?
| Acquihires are gonna acquihire, but for an audience Apple is
| hoping to court to their own streaming service, this feels like a
| pretty big own goal.
| ljm wrote:
| Sucks if the subscribers weren't Apple users or have no
| interest in becoming one.
| laserson wrote:
| Hadn't heard of Primephonic, but I have been using
| Concertmaster.app as a classical music-focused "skin" for Spotify
| and it's pretty good (and free!).
| A_Duck wrote:
| This is fantastic! Thanks for the tip
| fpina wrote:
| For Apple Music there is https://concertino.app/.
| wjnc wrote:
| Thanks! This looks great and seems to be a solution to the
| metadata problem as described above. I'll enjoy structuring my
| listening a bit with this.
| ggsp wrote:
| This looks promising, but seems to be broken in Firefox?
| henearkr wrote:
| I hope this will, through rivalry with Apple, push Google to up
| the maximum quality of their audio streams on Youtube Music.
|
| There was a significant decrease of quality since they migrated
| from Google Play Music (the difference can be heard especially
| with a good audiophile setup), and I hope they can undo that.
| comprev wrote:
| Congratulations to the team! I had great fun working there and
| the knowledge of classical music within the team was astonishing.
| Most staff are musical in some way - Friday afternoon drinks was
| occasionally an orchestra with singers! A very unique experience
| :-)
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Back in the day I used to buy CDs for clasdical music. Best
| purchase was Schiff's well tempered. I guess I'm going to buy
| more from now on. It's hard to own anything nowadays.
| ternaryoperator wrote:
| I buy boxed sets of classical CDs precisely b/c I want to truly
| own the music and to have a high-quality backup. I also like
| the books that frequently accompany boxed sets.
|
| There are two downsides though: 1) they take up a lot of space
| and 2) I spend a lot of time correcting metadata. dbPowerAmp's
| CD ripper, though, helps a lot with the metadata problem.
| sosuke wrote:
| If you have physical collections be careful with the foam
| inserts you might find in older sets. They degrade in a nasty
| way that sticks to the disks.
| jdontillman wrote:
| Heh... I predicted this exactly in my Article "38 Startup Company
| Ideas". This was number 4.
|
| http://till.com/articles/startupideas
| tayistay wrote:
| #11 Has provided a lot of my income for the past decade. Not
| sure I think it could be a startup company in the typical sense
| though... too niche.
| tommymachine wrote:
| Even predicted the acquisition by apple!
|
| #2 was also more prophetic than many here will want to admit.
|
| #7 predicted facebook's "fact checking" operations.
| abraae wrote:
| How about Discourse as a solution for #27? Seems to be doing
| well.
| jdontillman wrote:
| It may be; I don't know enough about it.
|
| I wrote these a while ago... should've dated them.
| desireco42 wrote:
| As someone who use and like the app, now it will no longer be on
| Android. This really sucks. Those companies both Apple, Google
| and Amazon should be heavily regulated.
| buro9 wrote:
| Classical music is one of the hardest genres to surface through
| existing music apps.
|
| Where an app may have an "artist" field, classical music will
| have "composer" and then for the performers it will have
| "orchestra", "conductor", "principal soloists". For an opera all
| of those are primary fields that could be considered "artist".
|
| The variations of the data is huge, only last week I had to
| correct Tchaikovsky in my own data and looking at the variations
| I see online: P. I. Tchaikovski Peter
| Ilyitch Tchaikofsky Peter Tchaikovsky Petr Ilitch
| Tchaikovski Piotr Ilic Tchaikovskij Piotr Ilyitch
| Tchaikovski Piotr Tchaikovski Pyotr Ilyich
| Tchaikovsky (this one is arguably most correct)
|
| This is something everyone gets wrong, and yet whomever gets it
| right is going to help make it easier for people to find and
| celebrate classical music, and to expose more people to classical
| music.
|
| Even if today you know that you love Beethoven's Symphony No 3...
| finding the best performance and recording is almost impossible,
| and if you do happen to stumble upon it on a streaming service
| getting back to it later (if it wasn't the only one in your
| recents) is difficult.
|
| I'm really glad someone is investing in this, and it needs to be
| a different app / interface to handle this difference in metadata
| and in weighting of the fields. Capturing the intent of "oh, this
| person really just wants to search Gould as a principal soloist
| and weight the search that way" is far easier when you have an
| app that can provide a classical music perspective and filter
| over an existing library.
|
| PS: Plex does this really badly too... whatever you do, don't let
| the Plex Music Agents decide the metadata, Verdi disappeared and
| had the metadata for Veridia which I believe is a rock band.
| spoonjim wrote:
| It's even dumber than that. Want to listen to Brandenburg
| Concerto No. 5? You'll find an album whose track names start
| with "Johann Sebastian Bach -- Brandenburg Concertos -- BWV No.
| XXX" and because the strings are cut off by the UI, you can't
| see which one is which.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The way voice assistants behave with classical metadata is just
| terrible, too. Once I naively asked Android Auto to play Act II
| from Carmen, and it proceeded to recite _all_ of the metadata
| from the record, which went one for a good solid minute.
|
| "OK, playing 'Act 2, Chanson, "Halte-la! Qui va la?", by
| Georges Bizet, Jose Carreras & Claudine Coster & Isabelle
| Karajan & Alain Hitier & Maria Laborit & Berliner
| Philharmoniker & Herbert von Karajan & Georges Bizet ..."
|
| It was just endless!
| wcerfgba wrote:
| I find jazz has a similar problem: there may be a band leader
| but usually each instrumentalist is of note, and there is no
| way I am aware of to track each performer in an ID3 or APE tag.
|
| Consider for example the Cannonball Adderley album "Somethin'
| Else" [1]. The album artist is Cannonball because he led the
| session, but he is in no way the 'author' of the entire album.
| The performances of Miles, Hank, Sam and Art on their
| respective instruments are what make the album what it is. In
| addition, some of the tunes are 'standards': "Autumn Leaves" is
| by Kosma and "Love for Sale" is by Porter, although I suppose
| this info could be stored in the ID3 composer field on each
| track.
|
| I would love a way to track performers across all my jazz
| albums and be able to see which albums different people
| performed on.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somethin%27_Else_(Cannonball_A...
| gvurrdon wrote:
| I very much agree; particularly as I may wish to hear
| particular bassists and they are usually not listed as the
| band leader. It would also be useful to able to add multiple
| tags, both "jazz" and "post bop", for example.
| Tycho wrote:
| wish there was an algorithm that could make me a playlist
| full of stuff that sounds like _Blue in Green_ from _Kind of
| Blue._
| wcunning wrote:
| I've found similar problems with a bunch of group names. For
| instance, I want to listen to more Gerry Mulligan,
| specifically Gerry Mulligan and the Concert Jazz Band, which
| had a Complete Verve recordings album that I got from the
| jazz collection at my university's music school, but Spotify
| and Apple do not have. They did several other albums and
| Mulligan had other groups (trios, quartets, etc) but they're
| hard to correlate together. Many of the jazz greats were in
| the boat where they performed on a lot of things that
| wouldn't list them as primary artists, but that's how you
| need to find them to find 95% of their work -- especially in
| instruments like my favorite: trombone. Band leader vs band
| members doesn't even have an ID3 field to the best of my
| knowledge without just sticking them all into the artist
| field. Compound that with the amount of jazz out there in the
| no-copyright state (because of age or racism or both in the
| distant past) that only exists in a collector's collection as
| a 45rpm stamping with low-ish quality and it turns out that
| there's a _lot_ of missing music from pre-1950 or so.
| al_ak wrote:
| It'd be great if there was a music service that somehow
| incorporated the metadata in something like the Allmusic
| database. Say for example, while listening to an album, you
| could click on any side member and easily access any other
| album they'd played on. Same with songwriters, or album
| producers, recording engineers, etc. You can get all or most
| of this manually, but tied into a listening interface would
| be pretty slick.
|
| That said, I don't know how much of a market there'd be for
| this
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| There is, sort of; it's called Roon, and IIRC its interface
| can do exactly what you're describing. Back when I was a
| subscriber, its equivalent of a "daily discovery" list
| would frequently come up with things like "Highlighted
| Performer: Drums McDrumface" and create a playlist of every
| song in my library McDrumface played drums on.
|
| https://roonlabs.com
|
| The downside with Roon is that it's not actually a
| standalone music service; it's sort of like a software-only
| version of Sonos or Bluesound, letting you aggregate your
| personal library and (extremely) select streaming services
| and send sound to any Roon client device (a computer or
| mobile device running Roon software or, in some cases,
| directly to hardware that supports Roon's transport
| protocol). And, it's still a subscription service -- so
| you're paying $10/month for great metadata, that
| multidevice playback system, and an "audiophile" music
| player. I subscribed for a couple years, but decided I
| really couldn't justify it.
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| You are so painfully correct. I wish I knew Primephonic existed
| because I would have subscribed!
|
| If Apple does this well it could be enough to get me to switch
| from Spotify to Apple Music. I am not optimistic though.
| japers wrote:
| We worked with Primephonic on the development of the platform,
| and this was one of the topics that got a lot of attention. In
| this talk about the app architecture [1] a former team mate
| touches upon the datamodel briefly.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERPmUsLkwEE
| trevorhinesley wrote:
| That's unfortunate to hear... Accurate metadata matters to both
| the artist and the consumer, as you experienced yourself. I
| feel the need to shamelessly chime in with this because of how
| random this is, seeing our name on Hacker News: I'm one of the
| founding guitarists of VERIDIA and yes, the music is rock.
| kemiller wrote:
| Yes, fixing the metadata problem is so important. I hope it
| also means a much larger catalog.
| montenegrohugo wrote:
| Such an enlightening comment. This is why I come back to HN, I
| had no idea why it was so hard to discover classical music (and
| I've experienced that pain point myself)
| crazygringo wrote:
| Yup. What I really want is to be able to browse by composer,
| then work, and then show me _all_ the performances (regardless
| of whether a whole album or part of an album), and let be sort
| /filter by popularity, trending, new, and performer.
|
| I'm honestly pretty surprised the metadata problem hasn't been
| solved by now. Even if the labels are providing it in an
| inconsistent format, cleaning it all up to 99.9% consistency
| seems like it could be done fairly efficiently. The universe of
| the names of classical composers and performers isn't _that_
| large.
| motoboi wrote:
| All I really wanted was being able to see the full name of the
| piece when I open an album in Spotify.
| porphyra wrote:
| And then trying to play a playlist on "shuffle" will mess up
| the ordering of the movements of the pieces, and on "auto" it
| will just keep playing the same 3 most popular pieces but by
| various principal soloists or something.
| [deleted]
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| Ah. Well, they're all the same person. Or rather... the same
| persona. So we know they're a unique person... or persona. But
| what is identity anyway?
|
| What do I mean? Richard David James went by several different
| aliases. They're all the same person. But not the same persona?
| Maybe.
|
| Couldn't Pac-Mac by Power Pill just be considered Aphex Twin's
| work? I'd argue, sure.
|
| But Brad Strider's work, which is really just Richard again, is
| in my opinion significant enough from the rest of his work, can
| you group them together? Discogs still does, and that makes
| sense to me.
| rodgerd wrote:
| > Where an app may have an "artist" field, classical music will
| have "composer" and then for the performers it will have
| "orchestra", "conductor", "principal soloists". For an opera
| all of those are primary fields that could be considered
| "artist".
|
| Yeah, this is maddening. Although in many ways it's not
| isolated to classical - the whole standards for tagging and the
| presentation thereof are woefully inadequate for any case where
| you want to be able to have a soloist or multiple composers but
| be able to find the same composer/songwriter regardless of who
| they've worked with, or featured artists in hiphop, or...
|
| I can understand that back in the MP3 days of the late
| 90s/early years of the century it was "a good start" but the
| lack of any meaningful improvements is woeful.
| cm2187 wrote:
| That's why it makes sense to own classical music rather than
| rely on a streaming service that will change, come and go (like
| in this case). In my case I listen to a lot of opera, I have
| one or two reference recordings for each opera, and I exclude
| the recitative which aren't really music or interesting when
| you just listen.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I would argue that this argument extends to _any_ music. The
| top 40 will probably never vanish, but unless you 're totally
| happy listening to only that, there will always be library
| churn - unless that library lives in mp3s on a backed up hard
| drive.
| ddek wrote:
| Of course it always _makes sense_ to own recordings, but I
| find it either ludicrously expensive or unimaginably boring.
|
| Going by my streaming history, if I owned the recordings I
| listened too I'd have a full CD shelf for the late Beethoven
| Sonatas. The same again for the Concerto's, perhaps two for
| the Symphonies. I've just spent PS150 at IKEA just to hold
| the basics of Beethoven, before I've even got the CD's!
|
| Of course the alternative is to only listen to my 'preferred'
| interpretations, which is the unimaginable boredom.
| Zimerman's ballades are too dry, Perahia's too wet,
| Horowitz's too unorthodox, Ashkenazy's too uneven; but I'll
| listen to all of them _again and again and again_. I 'm not
| picking a favourite here. I'd forget Chopin before I pick
| one.
|
| Finally, _so what if my streaming service comes and goes_? I
| just go somewhere else.
| buro9 wrote:
| 100% agree.
|
| Actually I go further, I think those into art should always
| express that through ownership.
|
| Books go out of print or the translation varies. Films are
| unavailable if they're not one of the top grossing films, and
| even if they are then they can be unavailable (i.e. Disney
| exercising artificial scarcity over historical titles).
|
| I own and ripped over 6k CDs into FLAC a long time ago, and
| still a good number of these are not available on streaming
| services even though they were major releases in the UK in
| the 1990s and 2000s. Why? Because the coverage of EPs,
| Singles, B-sides, and some variations of albums (Japanese
| imports with extra tracks) isn't represented by Spotify,
| Google Music, Tidal, Apple, etc.
|
| The only way to ensure you can enjoy something in the future
| is to own it today.
|
| For me, music, video and book streaming / digital rental
| fills a different problem space - discovery before ownership.
| porphyra wrote:
| Do you know where to buy FLACs for classical music? I would
| love to pay money for good quality music to put on my
| computer without having to buy physical CDs.
| diskzero wrote:
| You make a good point. If you come into an appreciation of
| certain genres of film or music, and the items you want are
| out of print, your options are to find the content on the
| secondary market or acquire pirated copies.
|
| I am always more than willing to pay for content, but what
| is one supposed to do when what you want is out of print
| and there are no viable secondary market options?
| hluska wrote:
| I have a really serious problem, but I spent more than a
| decade trying to find a copy of REM's (Hib-Tone) Radio
| Free Europe 45. That quest led me to dig through some of
| the sketchiest crates on the planet before I finally gave
| up and ordered a copy on eBay.
|
| To this day, it remains one of the possessions I love
| most. The hunt and all the crates I dug through add a
| mythology that beats the actual product. The mix is
| really good and shows Mitch Easter at his absolute best,
| but the hunt is worth even more than the artistry.
|
| That's all a long way of saying if there aren't any
| secondary market options, keep digging. You'll eventually
| find it and the story will be worth more than the
| recording.
| diskzero wrote:
| I hear you. I wish there were more places to dig through
| sketchy crates! All of my favorite used record stores
| have vanished and the joy of finding a rare item in a
| crate is harder and harder to find.
|
| I'll keep digging!
| tern wrote:
| This is the only way if also if you're into underground
| i.e. dance music. Private torrent trackers are the only way
| to acquire vast swaths of music, many of which was even
| quite popular at the time of its release.
|
| Also helpful are YouTube, SoundCloud, and if you want to
| listen to contemporary music, things like NTS radio.
|
| It makes me sad that young people today growing up on
| Spotify simply cannot find out about most of the music I
| grew up with, or most of the music that excites me coming
| out today, unless they go "off road."
| crtasm wrote:
| I'm not clear - are you saying most tunes you grew up
| with+new releases that excite you aren't on youtube? or
| that you think youngsters aren't clicking outside
| spotify?
|
| Maybe it's just the genres I'm into but between youtube
| and soundcloud (+ a bit of bandcamp) maybe 95% of
| underground music new or old that I look for is
| available. Knowing it exists in the first place is a step
| of course but once you find something good both sites
| seem pretty good at suggesting similar tracks.
| Talanes wrote:
| I grew up in a small town in the 90's, and dance music
| was just something you sometimes heard in the background
| of movies. Getting into underground music back then would
| have meant driving a couple hundred miles.
| tootie wrote:
| I know it's not the same thing, but I like to stream
| classical radio some times. Obviously, it's curated instead
| of user-selected, but as a casual listener I'm more inclined
| to trust someone else's taste. WQXR has a few different
| streams. I'm partial to New Sounds.
| j7ake wrote:
| Super agree. I still buy digital music mostly because I buy
| classical recordings that I think are worth listening over my
| life time.
|
| I find classical music even more enjoyable if you have the
| sheet music to follow along.
| nxpnsv wrote:
| Ha, I'd write 'Tjajkovskij' in Swedish and 'Tschaikowski' in
| German, so i guess there are even more variations...
| hluska wrote:
| This is way off topic (and I apologize) but it's remarkably
| hard to learn about classical music. Would you do me a favour?
| I'm a classical neophyte and struggle with
| composer/orchestra/conductor fit. Can you recommend any
| combinations that I need to hear??
|
| Thus far, I think I like baroque and Bach makes me happy. I'm
| starting to think I love opera but I might just have a thing
| for Maria Callas. However, I'm open to any and all
| recommendations and will love the hell out of anyone who
| recommends anything. I prefer vinyl but I'll buy an 8 track if
| it helps.
|
| (Whenever I've asked HN for help, I've ended up with new
| favourite recordings of all time. Thanks to all the classical
| music lovers who have really enhanced my life throughout the
| years.)
| afturner wrote:
| I've made an opinionated playlist for some friends that you
| may enjoy. It includes my favorites from the past few years,
| and has a semi-decent range of composers/time periods. I will
| keep adding to it.
|
| https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5iXkMfXJPsaqcAgZBu6eAU
| zwaps wrote:
| I do it this way: Find some piece you really like, then find
| an interpretation you really like.
|
| I think that's actually the way it should be. People tend to
| hype this or that conductor or sound, and there is certainly
| merit to it, but I think it is even more a matter of taste
| than the actual music. Once you really like a certain
| symphony, you will listen to it many times. Then, you will
| have some opinion on how things should be played to excite
| you, make you happy etc.
|
| Min/maxing composer/performance dyads based on reputation is
| probably pretty nonsensical, even if it is nerdy fun. For
| example, there are some pieces I really like, and I
| acknowledge that Karajan is "the man", but his recording
| simply doesn't give me the right vibe to enjoy the music
| compared to some obscure conductor I found somewhere on an
| old compilation CD.
|
| One last thing: I personally do not enjoy Bach, much of
| Mozart, Vivaldi or "Classical"/Baroque music. There is a
| whole world of stuff beyond that, however, and some of it is
| very different. Bruckner, Mahler, Brahms, Tchaikovsky,
| Dvorak, Mendelssohn.
|
| In fact, the first thing I recommend is usually Dvorak 9th
| Symphony "A new World". Its second movement (Largo I think it
| is called) is eye-wateringly beautiful, but it also doesn't
| turn off people who get bored by Bach, Mozart, Vivaldi et al
| (like me).
| mariodiana wrote:
| Do you want to read a really entertaining book?
|
| _The Great Pianists,_ by Harold C. Shonberg
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Great-Pianists-Mozart-
| Present/dp/0671...
|
| You don't have to worry about reading the whole thing. Read
| through Bach and Mozart (and maybe Beethoven) to begin with.
| You'll get a feel for the historical background, and mention
| of their major pieces. Then, you go listen to the pieces.
|
| I know these are pianists, but a good number of the great
| composers were some of the foremost pianists of their time.
|
| Supplement a composer you've read about with a YouTube video
| or two, and their entry in Wikipedia, and you're off to a
| great start.
|
| Anyway, that's one approach.
| alphaBetaGamma wrote:
| If you like Bach you might want to learn to listen to
| polyphony: the form of music in which multiple melodies are
| played simultaneously while forming an harmonious whole. I
| recommend looking & listening to videos of Stephen Malinowsky
| (smalin on youtube), particularly his older videos with less
| visual clutter. Each color is a separate melody. Initially
| and you should try to focus on just one melody, then see if
| you can easily switch your focus to an other one. Then see if
| you can listen/focus on two melodies at the same time, then
| three...
| https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL81D26D4A47388279
|
| In general I would not worry to much about the performer, but
| it might be interesting to listen to different
| interpretations of the same piece, particularly from
| composers with very idiosyncratic styles. On youtube, Ashish
| Xiangyi Kumar (https://www.youtube.com/c/AshishXiangyiKumar)
| has videos of pieces (mainly piano solo) interpreted by
| different artist.
| buro9 wrote:
| Seek out any Bach played by Glenn Gould. The incredible thing
| here is that Bach left sheet music but sheet music of the age
| did not include time, so the music has to be interpreted. The
| "Goldberg Variations" are this interpretation by Glenn Gould
| (a pianist).
|
| I'd throw in Beethoven's 3rd and 5th Symphonies.
|
| I'd also throw in something like Verdi's Rigoletto and
| Rossini's Barber of Seville.
|
| In my past I owned a record label which specialised in pop,
| rock and folk music. I had to learn classical like I had to
| learn jazz. But the thing that made this easier for me was
| the realisation that there is far far more rock / pop than
| there is classical or jazz. It can be intimidating but you
| only need an entry point to get you started. Whatever that is
| will be personal to you, but the best advice anyone can give
| is to just listen.
| olau wrote:
| Besides tempo, at Bach's time, dynamics (loudness) weren't
| usually written down.
|
| But there's always a lot of interpretation involved, even
| today. The score is a very rough model of the music, akin
| to jotted down notes outlining a novel. Or like a
| manuscript for a film.
| mushishi wrote:
| > so the music has to be interpreted
|
| Just to extend this point: My understanding of the topic
| might be far off as I haven't ever learned music under a
| teacher. But to me there's great deal of interpretation
| even with tempi marks that even good students just aren't
| thinking.
|
| I sometimes enjoy watching masterclasses of players with
| wealth of experience. Andres Schiff is one of the most
| famous ones. Also Maxim Vengerov the violinist. Anyone that
| hasn't seen one masterclass should look up on youtube if
| that sound remotely interesting.
| cageface wrote:
| If you think you might like opera check out the Rene Jacobs'
| recordings of Mozart's Italian Operas on the Harmonia Mundi
| label: Cosi Fan Tutte, Le Nozze di Figaro & Don Giovannni.
|
| In general as a beginner I wouldn't worry too much about
| finding the _best_ recording of any particular piece. Once
| you start to develop some favorites then you can pick a few
| and compare. Streaming services make this a lot easier and
| cheaper than it used to be.
| spoonjim wrote:
| I don't know if I agree with that. The recording can make
| the difference between a transcendent piece and dogshit.
| For example if Beethoven's Fifth is played too fast,
| especially if there's not enough of a pause between the
| first two phrases... it just ruins the whole thing.
| cageface wrote:
| Yeah that's true but if you stick to the major labels and
| performers you're very unlikely to hear a performance
| that bad. IMO worrying too much about this as a beginner
| is a distraction.
|
| But once you start to develop some favorites then hearing
| different takes can add a lot of enjoyment I agree.
| staticautomatic wrote:
| I agree this is mostly a matter of taste. Consider the
| endless debates over Heifetz and Argerich's playing
| styles.
| olau wrote:
| Hah, that's funny. I grew up with a super fast Karajan
| (perhaps to make it fit on an LP?), and have had a hard
| time adjusting to the slower tempo that most recordings
| have.
|
| Personally, for me all Beethoven symphonies >= 4 are a
| treat. If you ever get the chance to see one live, go.
| It's overwhelming.
|
| Youtube can be helpful when it comes to interpretations.
| With some luck, there's going to be music geeks
| recommending other versions, so you can click around and
| find one you prefer.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Honestly I've never seen a Karajan that I liked
| daggersandscars wrote:
| Bach: The Art of Fugue performed by Emerson String Quartet
| (Deutsche Grammophon)
|
| Classical music rewards close listening, but orchestral
| pieces can be overwhelming to those who haven't trained
| themselves to listen closely. This is a good set of
| recordings to start with, as there are only a handful of
| performers, each with a distinctive sound.
|
| Digression: once one has learned the pieces, this can be a
| good audio assessment tool. Some speakers over-amplify
| specific sounds. Some amps muddy certain frequencies or
| complex sounds. A string quartet performing similar melodies
| is a great way to notice this.
|
| This specific album was the first that really opened my eyes
| to audio quality differences. If all four instruments are
| playing, I should be able to hear them. If all I can hear is
| the viola, there's something wrong with the system. Or, if I
| can suddenly hear all four where I couldn't before... These
| are significant differences, not minor ones.
|
| From there, it was learning finer details. The first time I
| could hear the attack, sustain, and release of a note on a
| stringed instrument. Changing equipment and suddenly getting
| what "soundstage" meant. Etc.
|
| This album also kept me honest when diving into the
| potentially incredibly expensive and super opinionated
| audiophile world. How does this compare to my personal
| system? Am I noticing anything I've not noticed before? Is
| anything missing? Do the answers to these questions justify
| spending money? Surprisingly, the answer most of the time to
| the last question was no.
| utexaspunk wrote:
| I love the recording I have of Academy of St Martin in the
| Fields that has The Art of Fugue and Musical Offering
| (Philips, 1994). Both works are beautiful explorations of
| counterpoint. Especially MO if you read the story behind
| it. And the Crab Canon... Bach blows my mind. TBH I am no
| audiophile, but I like their performance. Have you heard
| it?
| m0zg wrote:
| IMO you need percussion to really show the capabilities of
| the speakers or headphones. Cymbals especially sound like
| mud on bad speakers.
| adolph wrote:
| This show: Exploring music with Bill McGlaughlin
|
| https://www.wfmt.com/programs/exploring-music/
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploring_Music
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_McGlaughlin
| y7 wrote:
| > I'm a classical neophyte and struggle with
| composer/orchestra/conductor fit.
|
| If you're new to classical music you _really_ don 't need to
| worry about this. Almost all available professional
| recordings are of high quality, and the differences between
| interpretations are relatively subtle.
|
| What is important is to get a sense of which composers you
| enjoy. Classical music spans a large period of time with very
| different styles, so try a few well-known composers from
| different time periods to see what you like. I greatly enjoy
| classical music and I regularly attend(ed) concerts, but my
| interests are very narrow and I don't get a lot of enjoyment
| out of Mozart and Beethoven for instance.
|
| In my opinion, classical music is best enjoyed when you
| devote your full attention to listening to the music, i.e.
| when you're not doing anything else (or something with a very
| low cognitive load, like walking/driving/etc). Focus on how
| the music makes you feel, but it's okay to let your thoughts
| wander off a bit.
| intrasight wrote:
| >best enjoyed when you devote your full attention to
| listening to the music, i.e. when you're not doing anything
| else
|
| Reminds me of going to live concerts, and my guest being
| surprised that I spend most of my time with my eyes closed
| - so that I can focus on the music.
| cynicalkane wrote:
| I kind of disagree with this. For the post-Beethoven era,
| sure, but the standard way of playing Beethoven and before
| tends to be heavily biased towards an uninformed modern
| idea of what classical music "should" be, which is stodgy,
| slow, smooth, heavily refined, overcooked with crescendoes
| and decrescendos, and quite inauthentic. Almost as though
| it's shameful for music to be immediate and exciting at the
| risk of being unrefined. If you compare Furtwangler's[1]
| Beethoven symphonies to Christopher Hogwood's... one sounds
| like music for wealthy old people at a concert hall. The
| other sounds like _music_. (Don 't get me started on the
| routine butchering of Bach...)
|
| But that's just my opinion. The point is it really pays to
| try different conductors, performers and performances
| before the 1830s or so. I'm not sure why that time changes
| things, but I'd guess the romantic style that came after
| more closely aligns with artsy-fartsy performance
| practices, and that composers also became more careful
| about marking how their works should be performed. Anyway,
| trying different things is also a good exercise in
| developing personal taste, which is a key ingredient of
| music appreciation.
|
| [1] I originally had von Karajan here, but I went back to
| have a listen and it wasn't as bad as I remembered.
| Substituted Furtwangler's inexplicably famous recordings,
| which sound like the entire orchestra took Valium:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOxcryX1VE . Compare to
| Beethoven's recommended tempo and historical style:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y07M8e5g-Y
| roughly wrote:
| I wonder if this is a similar effect as the "classic
| white marble" impression of Greek & Roman architecture -
| we have an entire aesthetic (both artistic and cultural)
| built off of the "purity" of the white marble remains;
| meanwhile it turns out in their time they were garishly
| colored and decorated because the Greeks and romans, like
| all other humans, actually enjoyed living in places and
| looking at things.
| FredPret wrote:
| That's a great point.
|
| I wonder if in future there will be slow, dignified
| recordings of Nicky Minaj et al
| zozbot234 wrote:
| It's quite similar. There's definitely a "white marble
| effect" coming from the original sources, that tend to be
| a very barebone notation of the music with basically no
| indications on how to perform it. But we know from
| written discussions that creative improvisation was key
| to performance in that era, and regarded as the very peak
| of music instruction even more so than composition
| itself! Sometimes we get lucky and have more detailed
| sources, that tell us how some pieces might have been
| performed in detail.
| User23 wrote:
| I went to a performance by the Seattle Symphony back when
| Gerald Schwartz was conducting and he managed to make
| Beethoven's 9th symphony sound dull. It was an impressive
| feat. He explained, for reasons I've forgotten, that he
| even muted the violins. I went to a second performance a
| few years later by the same conductor, and it was equally
| devoid of spirit. It was enervated by far more than just
| the plodding tempo.
|
| On the other hand, John Eliot Gardiner's Orchestre
| Revolutionnaire et Romantique plays Beethoven on period
| instruments at the tempo the composer indicated, and it's
| absolutely gripping.
| ljm wrote:
| Between the two examples, the historical style feels much
| more alive, vibrant, dynamic. There's a real energy
| there.
|
| I went back to the Furtwangler version and it felt like
| what my mind feels like when my depression kicks in. It's
| flattened out and lethargic, like it's lost the will to
| live.
|
| I'm no classical music connoisseur, I rarely listen to
| it. But the difference is night and day to my untrained
| ears. One is boring and the other captures my attention.
| spekcular wrote:
| How is Bach routinely butchered, and do you have
| recommended recordings of Bach's keyboard works (let's
| say WTC and the inventions/sinfonias)?
| d13 wrote:
| Glenn Gould was unsurpassed.
| User23 wrote:
| It's indisputable that he was a virtuoso on the keyboard,
| but unfortunately he accompanied that with annoying
| humming that many recordings pick up way too much of.
| tkgally wrote:
| I don't have an opinion about whether anyone has
| butchered Bach or not, but, after listening to a half-
| dozen interpretations of the WTC (all on piano), I find
| that I like Zhu Xiao-Mei's the best.
| y7 wrote:
| Maybe try Nikolayeva's recordings?
|
| WTC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpwAZf6thY
|
| Inventions and sinfonias:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bL7oyuqEwA
|
| Lots of people recommend Gould in this thread. Check out
| the difference of the first invention in the link above
| with the first invention of Gould, and see what you
| prefer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQot-jM6FSw
| noefingway wrote:
| I totally agree with this. I used to listen to a lot of
| classical music (radio, vinyl, in concert). There seems
| to be something about the mid-20th century conductors
| where all their recordings are slow, ponderous and
| somnolent. Beethoven in particular, but many other
| composers get the same treatment. Hogwood's recordings
| are great. IMHO the best recording of Beethoven's 9th
| that I've heard is Leonard Bernstein's.
| utexaspunk wrote:
| I have [this CD](https://www.allmusic.com/album/vivaldi-
| the-four-seasons-conc...) from 1990 of Vladimir Spivakov
| and the Moscow Virtuosi playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons. I
| have never heard a version of the Four Seasons that was
| so vibrant. Unfortunately I've never been able to find
| the exact recording on a streaming service, but I cherish
| that album.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > If you're new to classical music you really don't need to
| worry about this. Almost all available professional
| recordings are of high quality, and the differences between
| interpretations are relatively subtle.
|
| Agreed, but it's also important to understand that what's
| truly distinctive about Western classical music (as opposed
| to other music traditions) is it being a _written_ art form
| first and foremost, with sheet music as the "standard"
| form for a piece and performance being subsequent to that.
| If you're "new" to serious/cultivated music, you really
| should start by learning to read the sheet music and follow
| along when listening to a performance. Everything else in
| music appreciation is downstream of that.
| Raineer wrote:
| I agree with this answer. I listen to classical constantly
| but still don't really feel like I understand it well.
|
| What I did was just listen..listen..listen and then look
| for patterns in what I liked.
|
| I _love_ Vivaldi and Bach, but I tend not to love too many
| of the other "big names". Turns out I really love most
| anything from the Baroque period! And I literally just used
| that Wikipedia entry as a starting part to continue looking
| for more composers.
| olau wrote:
| If you like Baroque keyboard music, try something like
| Scarlatti. It's a bit difficult finding good
| interpretations (I have a CD somewhere), but here's an
| example
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTi-QXenilQ
|
| Rameau is a different kind of beast from Bach:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIGcj_Avb8
| https://youtu.be/NK3-URQntcg?t=1383
|
| I also really recommend giving Bach's cello suites a try:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGgG-0lOJjk
| dbcurtis wrote:
| Learning a bit of music history will give you a roadmap. By
| placing a composer in the time line of the evolution of
| western music, you will have a scaffold to frame your
| listening and other learning. When you hear something you
| like (or don't like) look at when the composer was working
| and who they studied under. Then explore a bit about that
| time period and the artistic aims of the composers of that
| period. Listen to what you enjoy and to music adjacent (by
| time and school) to what you enjoy.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Listen to a radio station curated by genuine experts, like
| BBC Radio 3, and learn which curators you like.
| holri wrote:
| I would recommend going to live concerts. Classical music is
| about emotional communication between humans. A live
| performance is a much richer human communication channel than
| a recording. The moment in time is unique and not
| reproducible. My greatest emotional feelings were while live
| listening or self playing. I always remember them.
| nmg wrote:
| If I may add my own recommendation -- Ralph Kirschbaum's 1993
| recordings of Bach's cello suites (blue cover). My entire
| Spotify subscription is basically "let me listen to this one
| album, please. Thanks."
| scolby33 wrote:
| As someone with just a touch of classical knowledge from high
| school band and such, I've truly enjoyed and learned a lot
| from the Classical Classroom podcast
| (https://classicalclassroomshow.com/).
| muglug wrote:
| Read Music for Life by Fiona Maddocks:
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDY2O0E
| tannhauser23 wrote:
| Not the OP but happy to help!
|
| Since you already like Bach, start by exploring his work!
|
| Let's start with the Goldberg Variations, which are 30
| variations on a theme set for the keyboard. Glenn Gould's
| 1955 recording is perhaps the best known recording of this
| work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwas_7H5KUs
|
| I also greatly enjoy Andras Schiff's interpretations of Bach:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbOwhF1hFcg
|
| For opera, I suggest starting with the Magic Flute by Mozart.
| There are so many good recording to choose from but why not
| watch the thing? It's meant to be a visual/audio format,
| after all! I suggest this recording of the Metropolitan Opera
| - it's what got me hooked on operas many years ago:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjZfHFPIk7g
|
| If you like Maria Callas, you'll love Italian operas. Why not
| start with the classic, La Traviata? I can't find any of
| Callas's performances online (aside from clips), but you may
| like this performance with Anna Netrebko:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYGiRbDHr7k
|
| Finally, a note on where/how to listen to classical music. I
| find Youtube to be an incredible tool for listening and for
| discovery. It's not necessary to dig back to vinyl or 8-track
| to listen to great performances - they've been remastered for
| CDs and lossless media.
|
| But ultimately you want to listen to it in person. I'll never
| forget seeing my first opera in person (The Flying Dutchman).
| Or the time I scored orchestra seats for Sibelius's 4th
| symphony. Until the performances return, you might want to
| buy a ticket to an online performance on DG Premium, which is
| Deutsche Grammophon's streaming service: https://www.dg-
| premium.com/
|
| Good luck and good listening!
|
| EDIT: Alas, the Magic Flute performance I linked to doesn't
| have subtitles! Boo! Here's one that does, though it's not
| the classic Met production:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPxrbeR5ZyE
| mmmpop wrote:
| Personally I find Gould's persistent humming to be very
| grating (not endearing) and recommend Kimiko Ishizaka over
| him any day.
| ternaryoperator wrote:
| These kinds of questions are frequently asked and answered in
| detail on Reddit r/classical music [0]
|
| The FAQ on the right side of the home page has links to
| introductory pages.
|
| You're starting on a fun journey!
|
| [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/
| aqme28 wrote:
| I asked a classical-loving friend this same question and she
| gave me a wonderful Spotify playlist that I can share if
| you're interested[1]. I also condensed it down to my own
| favorites if you'd like that as well[2].
|
| [1]: Turns out I'm unable to share her playlist, but...
|
| [2]: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2Foxcns6j4SwiWIWiaEtKX
| ?si=...
| bcatanzaro wrote:
| I love this question so much.
|
| Try listening to string quartets. Here are a few brilliant
| ones:
|
| All of Schubert:
| https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nK-
| _o1OYLszr8d...
|
| Shostakovich 8: https://youtu.be/HgExfvXq7VI
|
| Beethoven 10 (Harp):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exMaWKVcCEs
|
| Mendelssohn 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UAU7xbTOyA
|
| There are so many more but string quartets are such a
| wonderful place to get started. Intimate, pure music, with so
| much passion and excitement.
| klelatti wrote:
| If you'd like to explore the BBC Music Magazine's list of 20
| greatest conductors might not be a bad place to start for
| orchestral music. The ordering may be a bit controversial but
| these are all great artists and the listing has some of their
| best performances.
|
| https://www.classical-
| music.com/features/artists/20-greatest...
|
| Some personal favourites:
|
| Brahms 4 - Carlos Kleiber / Vienna Philharmonic
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho-H-8FzbU8)
|
| Mahler 2 - Claudio Abbado / Lucerne
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MPuoOj5TIw)
|
| Shostakovich Symphonies - Bernard Haitink / London
| Philharmonic / Concertgebouw
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS4dcZ90fN0)
|
| One thing to look out for in baroque is original instruments
| vs modern instruments performances. Original instruments have
| a very different - leaner - sound. I find I much prefer them
| now. Someone like John Eliot Gardiner is amazing in original
| instruments Bach.
| cyberbolt23 wrote:
| If you like Bach played on authentic instruments, you must
| know the "All of Bach" recordings
|
| https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/about-allofbach
|
| All of Bach is a project of the Netherlands Bach Society.
| High-quality recordings of the works by Johann Sebastian
| Bach are made freely available for everyone.
| ebcase wrote:
| Fwiw, I have learned a lot by listening to classical radio in
| the background every day.
|
| Some of the great stations (imho -- KDFC in SF, CPR Classical
| Colorado, King FM in Seattle, Portland's station) have
| outstanding DJs who talk about the composers, soloists,
| conductors, orchestras, time period, etc.
| jlebar wrote:
| Others have recommended Mozart's Requiem if you like music
| with singing. If you haven't heard Robert Levin's completion,
| e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457pvjOo9Hw, I think it
| takes the cake.
|
| For a neophyte, I think it's good to start with the war
| horses, for which there are lots of high-quality modern
| recordings.
|
| - Bach Brandenberg concerti (I like the Netherlands Bach
| Society, they have tons of great Bach recordings on Youtube.
| If you're into Bach, highly recommend you check them out.)
|
| - Goldberg variations (I like Glen Gould's later recording,
| but Kimiko Ishizaka is also a great libre recording, and
| Netherlands Bach Society has a great recording on
| harpsichord)
|
| - Mozart Symphony 40
|
| - Mozart piano, violin sonatas
|
| - Beethoven Symphonies 3,5,9 (I really like
| https://www.youtube.com/user/hrSinfonieorchester)
|
| - Chopin waltzes, etudes, nocturnes
|
| - Rach piano concerto 2, Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini
|
| - Sibelius violin concerto (I like
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0w0t4Qn6LY)
|
| - Bruch violin concerto
|
| Personally I think watching videos helps bring the music
| alive in a way that listening to recordings doesn't. And
| maybe it's heresy to some, but I think modern recordings are,
| in general, a lot more pleasant to listen to.
|
| HTH!
| npunt wrote:
| If you have an iPad, Deutsche Grammophon's apps are a great
| intro to the intellectual and emotional complexity and nuance
| of some key classical works. They have apps for Beethoven's
| 9th, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and Liszt's Sonata.
|
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/beethovens-9th-
| symphony/id6019...
|
| With Beethoven's 9th, while you are listening it visually
| syncs the original manuscript and score, a visualization of
| where in the orchestra different instruments are playing, and
| includes analysis of the performance and intention of the
| parts. It also lets you switch between four different
| performances of the 9th by the Berliner Philharmoniker, so
| you can compare and contrast interpretations over the years.
|
| Highly recommended!
| Areading314 wrote:
| You should definitely listen to Bach's mass in B minor and
| his cantatas if you like vocal work and Bach. Also listen to
| Mozart's Requiem.
|
| Some other good stuff would be all the symphonies by Mozart
| and Beethoven. Vivaldi's four seasons.
|
| Also try Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, and Goldberg
| Variations.
|
| For opera listen to some of the overtures and highlights by
| Wagner (Tannhauser, Tristan & Isolde, Lohengrin).
| threatofrain wrote:
| Also check out Glenn Gould for Bach!
|
| Concerto #1 in D minor
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljLi9A0H8H4
| high5ths wrote:
| If you like baroque music, I can't help but plug my own New
| York City-based ensemble (named after Bach himself), the
| Sebastians: https://www.sebastians.org I'm the group's
| harpsichordist and director.
|
| We've released a lot of free content on Youtube, especially
| this year: https://www.youtube.com/thesebastians . Just today
| I released four recent performances, including Bach's fifth
| Brandenburg concerto:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHr9-Ht2XSI .
|
| Happy listening!
| te_chris wrote:
| BBC Radio 3 has a whole series about this called Building a
| Library. There's a UK retailer called Presto that annotate
| their stock with the different endorsements too - they sell
| digital files as well, if you're not in the UK. Then it's
| really about learning what you like. Personally, I'd start by
| period: broadly, Baroque (Bach, Vivaldi etc), Classical
| (Beethoven, Mozart etc), Romantic (Debussy, Ravel). The
| periods have identifiable styles and can be a good way to
| introduce yourself to the nuance of the compositions.
| Finally, there's a question of instrumentation: whether you
| prefer orchestral, vocal, chamber, solo etc.
|
| Sounds like a lot of work, but remember it should be fun!
| It's new music, a bunch of which you've probably never heard
| before. Have an open mind and dive in!
|
| Also, assuming you have access where you live and the means,
| live music doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive. Check
| out the programs at your local concert halls and go down to
| hear some music.
| jjgreen wrote:
| Presto is fabulous, CDs, SACDs, mp3s; 30s samples for most
| of the stock, if you order the CD you get immediate access
| to the mp3 ...
|
| Not affiliated with them at all, but they were a lifesaver
| during the lockdown (without Schoenberg to get drunk to,
| who knows how I would have made it through)
| krelian wrote:
| Some great recommendations already here, I'll add another
| one: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalresources
| rednerrus wrote:
| This might interest you:
| https://www.thegreatcourses.com/professors/robert-greenberg
| sosuke wrote:
| I had great success with Robert Greenberg's series on music
| and music history. I started with How to Listen to and
| Understand Opera which is available on his site
| (https://robertgreenbergmusic.com/download/how-to-listen-
| unde...) and The Great Courses as well. If you want a preview
| shoot me an email.
|
| He adds lots of fun history to go with it. Bach's Goldberg
| Variations was his greatest financial success "The Count
| presented him with a golden goblet filled with 100
| louis-d'or." and he was obsessed with coffee. Coffee cantana
| by him as well.
| dave84 wrote:
| I'll second his courses. Went through his Listen to and
| Understand Great Music course on The Great Courses through
| Audible.
| jbay808 wrote:
| When I want to find new things I listen to Classical King FM
| (they stream online here). I find they have really good
| taste.
|
| https://www.king.org/
|
| Whenever I hear something I like, I write down the piece and
| the conductor/orchestra.
|
| They helped me find all sorts of good recordings and
| compositions that I otherwise wouldn't have listened to. For
| some reason, for my whole life I thought I didn't like
| Brahms. But the third time that I heard some breathtaking
| piece, thinking "what is this??", and then finding out it was
| Brahms, I realized my mind had been changed.
| ProAm wrote:
| Don't worry Siri will handle this all for you now. You just
| have to say the words.
| munk-a wrote:
| "Now playing 'A relaxing Chai Tea on the seaside' radio from
| spotify."
| yunohn wrote:
| I can never get Siri to play things on Spotify for me. So
| without an Apple Music subscription, it always tries to
| play radios from Tune-In instead. :/
| snthd wrote:
| It's a metadata/economics problem.
|
| One solution is to use musicbrainz, and contribute as you go.
|
| https://musicbrainz.org/artist/9ddd7abc-9e1b-471d-8031-583bc...
|
| https://musicbrainz.org/work/80737426-8ef3-3a9c-a3a6-9507afb...
| wussboy wrote:
| Many years ago I was a huge fan of Music Brainz. I found a
| mis-named album info one time, submitted a request with
| changes to correct them, was rejected out of hand for an
| innocuous reason, and never went back. Which is too bad. As
| an idea and as a model, I love it. But you need the right
| culture/tool as well.
| jeffbee wrote:
| MusicBrainz Picard is the thing that rewrote all of my
| Russian composers in Cyrillic and after that I was never able
| to find any of them ever again.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Since this thread will attract classical music fans... anyone
| want to offer what they think are the all-time greatest
| recordings of particular pieces? I'll start, Murray Perahia
| does the definitive recording of Moonlight Sonata Mvmt 3:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=352qLWqKN-U
| wussboy wrote:
| It's such a nuisance in choral music as well. There are about 1
| million canticles, by hundreds of composers, to hundreds of
| settings, sung by hundreds of choirs, scattered across hundreds
| of albums. Good luck finding anything even slightly off the
| beaten path.
| zamalek wrote:
| I've been giving Qobuz a whirl for technical listening, and
| they have a very intentional approach to classical music. I'm a
| bit of a newbie, but I did receive the recommendation from
| other listeners.
| w-m wrote:
| Apple Music currently doesn't even get this right _within the
| same album_. I 've added a Beethoven piano concerto recording
| from Apple Music to my library, which at some point was
| suddenly split into two albums:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/HF59nNj.png
|
| The albums spontaneously splitting is not limited to classical
| music. It has happened several times that an album I had added
| to the library got replaced by a dozen best-off albums
| containing 1-2 songs each.
|
| As an Apple Music subscriber, I welcome the acquisition, and
| hope that problems like these will be reduced, and I can listen
| to the 4th concerto in one go again.
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| As a fellow Apple Music subscriber, I regret to confirm the
| "Apple Music currently doesn't even get this right within the
| same album" as a common problem across all genres. :) My
| personal library really isn't very big, but it still shows
| what I call "metadata drift": you add an album that has 12
| tracks, and eventually notice that while your library still
| contains those 12 _songs,_ somehow there are now only six
| tracks on that _album,_ with the other six tracks replaced by
| versions on various compilations (and if the data gods are
| feeling particularly mischievous, maybe a live version).
| _ph_ wrote:
| Also got the Album splitting with one Album from Genesis. On
| top of that, Apple Music deletes tracks from my library,
| claiming it has no license - but those tracks were ripped
| from CD, no idea how I could get them back, I do still have
| the original files on my Mac.
| apaprocki wrote:
| I highly suggest trying out a classical music collection in
| Roon. It specifically models some of this stuff to give a
| better experience.
| amgutier wrote:
| Roon provides the best classical music experience I've seen
| (better than when I tried primephonic previously) - there are
| still some papercuts, but generally it handles normalizing
| classical metadata well
| fishywang wrote:
| I remembered stumped onto an Amsterdam based classical music
| streaming service a few weeks ago that has a landing page
| explaining why they do per-second streaming subscription fee
| share with artists instead of the per-track share, which I
| think also makes a lot of sense for classical music.
|
| Some googling seems to suggest that's Primephonic but I'm not
| 100% sure about it (since they took down all their pages).
| fishywang wrote:
| Yes it was Primephonic, found the page on wayback machine: ht
| tps://web.archive.org/web/20210301042145/https://www.prime...
| true_religion wrote:
| Tragedy of the commons. Since no one owns the tracks anyone can
| use any valid way of indicating the artists name.
|
| No one except the platform actually has the right to merge
| artist names together when the artist is out of copyright.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| Similarly, browsing for Jazz (and some other genres) on
| streaming services really killed the main way I learned about
| music growing up. Usually you'd look at an album's liner notes,
| see who was playing what instrument, and go find more records
| that that person played on. To give an example, I might have
| been listening to John Coltrane's Blue Train record, really
| loved the trumpet player, and have gone and found some Lee
| Morgan records.
|
| I hate to admit it, but Spotify has made me lazy when it comes
| to music discovery, to the point where the only way I get
| excited to find new things is by digging for vinyl at a record
| store. The services feel built for passive entertainment
| consumption, not discovering and learning about new art.
| asplake wrote:
| Funny, for me it has been the opposite. Spotify plus Google
| plus Wikipedia has been awesome.
| crtasm wrote:
| I wonder if there's anything that ties in data from Discogs
| to what you're playing on Spotify, think that'd make a
| difference? I realise it'd be prone to incorrect matches.
| comprev wrote:
| Working on this problem of spellings (including non-Latin
| alphabet versions) was super interesting.
| koyote wrote:
| Back in the good old days of mp3s I decided I wanted my library
| to be as 'accurate' as possible with its metadata. I spent a
| lot of time manually editing metadata.
|
| Tchaikovsky was stored as 'Piotr Il'ich Chaikovskii'. As you
| might expect, this turned out to be a bad idea on many levels:
|
| * No searching
|
| * Always ends up on the top/bottom of alphabetically sorted
| lists
|
| * Took much longer to work out which artist it was because I'm
| not fluent in Cyrillic
|
| * The Microsoft Zune's fonts did not support most non-ASCII
| characters (this was a big one!)
|
| That being said, I was young and it looked cool, so I kept it
| :)
| johnNumen wrote:
| As a current subscriber, I look forward to transitioning to
| competitor Idagio. Good luck, Apple!
| manasdaruka wrote:
| Why take down a service when the replacement is not ready yet?
| Won't it allow the competitors to attract more users?
| spoonjim wrote:
| Could be licensing agreements that allow the licensors to void
| or renegotiate terms upon a change of control. When they re-
| release it as Apple Classical Music it will have so much
| marketing behind it that the existing user base won't matter.
| eyeundersand wrote:
| Fantastic! Wish there was something for Indian Classical Music
| too. One can hope.
| shuckles wrote:
| I am curious to better understand to what extent Apple's scale
| allows them to focus on Building The Best Music App instead of
| the race to the bottom type incentives of competitors like
| Spotify who are now trying to Build The Best Way To Capture Your
| Time Through Audio Content.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| That is cool! We get the Apple+ bundle with everything, and the
| new 3D spatial sound that they support with some audio media is
| very nice. I hope that they release more new classical music with
| 3D spatial sound support.
| acidmax wrote:
| I am subscribed to Primephonic, I look forward to the
| improvements that Apple will incorporate to the service.
| MisterTea wrote:
| Alternative to on demand streaming: If you want classical on
| shuffle and don't mind public radio then give NYC's WQXR a
| listen.
|
| https://www.wqxr.org/
| ape4 wrote:
| "said Oliver Schusser, Apple's vice president of Apple Music and
| Beats."
|
| The "and Beats" seems slightly redundant. I guess its because
| they acquired Beats by Dr Dre
| cmelbye wrote:
| Beats still operates as a brand of audio equipment:
| https://www.beatsbydre.com/
| 015a wrote:
| > Primephonic is no longer available for new subscribers and will
| be taken offline beginning September 7. Apple Music plans to
| launch a dedicated classical music app next year combining
| Primephonic's classical user interface that fans have grown to
| love with more added features. In the meantime, current
| Primephonic subscribers will receive six months of Apple Music
| for free, providing access to hundreds of thousands of classical
| albums, all in Lossless and high-resolution audio, as well as
| hundreds of classical albums in Apple Music's Spatial Audio, with
| new albums added regularly.
|
| This is utter insanity. I understand acquiring, and "sunsetting"
| the acquisition when it makes sense, blocking new user signups,
| and heck I'd even say its pretty cool that they're planning on
| releasing a totally separate experience for Apple Music classical
| listeners.
|
| But why shut down Primephonic before this new experience is
| ready? It just pisses off the already niche and hesitant
| customer-base you've announced you're trying to court!
| satya71 wrote:
| Speculating here, but liability, non-alignment of privacy
| policies, change of focus for team. Many reasons.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Exactly. If you gave people hope that it'd stick around for
| an indefinite amount of time you'd just have more discourse
| about "Apple could shut it down any day now" and you'd slowly
| dwindle subscribers anyways.
| ttul wrote:
| I just signed up and started listening, for free, no problem.
| So I don't think new signups are off the table. At least, they
| weren't two hours ago.
| yunohn wrote:
| The website says "will be taken offline beginning September
| 7", so I guess you can enjoy your 1 week free run?
| yunohn wrote:
| Agreed, this is crazy. What are users of Primephone supposed to
| do for the next 6 months? Listen to hip-hop? And that's just a
| tentative timeline.
| azinman2 wrote:
| They gave a 6 month free subscription to Apple Music. I was
| one of the Primephonic subscribers. I'm really bummed about
| this as I don't like Apple Music (and I even work for
| Apple!), prefer Spotify for "regular" music, and want my
| classical to have a proper focus and giant catalog. The major
| streamers just are so basic when it comes to classical, in
| selection, discovery, playlists, etc. I don't want pop
| classical, I want the good obscure stuff.
|
| Sad day as a user...
|
| Update: I didn't see the part where there's going to be a new
| dedicated app. That makes me feel better in the long run.
| That wasn't so clear from the email that Primephonic sent
| this morning.
| yunohn wrote:
| Given the delay on basic and simple features between WWDC
| and iOS releases; I find it hard to believe they'll launch
| a completely new music experience app in 6 months.
| kemayo wrote:
| It seems very plausible that it'd be the Primophonic app,
| just rebranded into looking first-party Apple. Just like
| what happened with Workflow becoming Shortcuts a few
| years ago.
| Dumblydorr wrote:
| Spotify is pretty cringe with Classical music. I love certain
| pianists, certain composers, that's easy to find... but if I hear
| of a new piece on forums or word of mouth, YT always surfaces
| better classical content.
|
| Spotify, any joe schmoe decent pianist can record 99% of the
| repertoire, that doesn't mean they're expert or virtuosic at the
| standard classical fans expect. The result is you may have to
| wade through many obscure albums and artists until you find a
| name you trust or even recognize. It seems Spotify is limited in
| it's algorithmic handling of popularity and reputability in it's
| search function.
|
| Combine with YT being a visual medium where you can see the
| challenges and tribulations and manual work, YT has a big edge on
| Spotify in classical IMO.
| fmakunbound wrote:
| I hope Apple keeps the Maestro stuff in whatever they do carrying
| over Primephonic. It's a real-time commentary about the work
| you're listening to. What to listen for, composer's mindset at
| the time, how it relates to other works and so on.
| minusf wrote:
| I'm a subscriber and not very happy about this.
|
| Except the 6 months of free apple music i never wanted in the
| first place there is confusing messaging what this means for my
| subscription.
|
| I hope the founders are happy with their exit.
| defaultname wrote:
| The FAQ indicates that they're providing a pro-rated refund for
| all current subscriptions.
|
| Like a number of other commentators, I'd never heard of this
| service despite being a fan of classical. If they can improve
| the state of classical on Apple Music -- playlists, metadata,
| discoverability, etc -- then I'm sure the founders are thrilled
| that they're going to have far more of an impact than they were
| having.
| minusf wrote:
| looking forward dragging down the fairly ok primephonic app
| to the level of apple's music app. what a sad day.
| jolux wrote:
| The article says they're creating a new app for classical
| music.
| minusf wrote:
| yes, based on the current primephonic one. apple can't
| make a good music app if its life depended on it.
| dt2m wrote:
| they can, they just haven't since the native Music app in
| iOS 6. but in the streaming era, yeah, you might be
| right.
| chongli wrote:
| Presumably this was an acqui-hire. The people who wrote
| the Primephonic app would then be expected to write the
| one for Apple, likely based on their original codebase.
|
| I remember when Apple bought SoundJam MP [1] and turned
| it into iTunes (and later renamed Music) so this is a
| familiar story. Apple has a chance at a fresh start with
| this one. I'm willing to give them a shot at it. If they
| mess it up I can always cancel the sub.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundJam_MP
| kall wrote:
| And the original apple music app was based on Beats Music
| as well! I've heard the theory that they bought Beats for
| that, and the music industry contacts, which seems wild,
| but maybe?
| comprev wrote:
| The existing iOS app is programmed by approx < 2 devs.
| They have an Android app which Apple will quickly shut
| down. The infra can be run by < 2 ops too.
|
| I predict most of the dev team will be looking for a new
| gig soon... shame as they were a great bunch!
| ribosometronome wrote:
| >They have an Android app which Apple will quickly shut
| down.
|
| Why would they do that? Apple Music and AppleTV are both
| available on Android.
| kemayo wrote:
| Could also have been a purchase for their licensing or
| metadata. It sounds like Primephonic has put a lot of
| work into all of that, and if Apple wants to get into
| classical then it'd make sense to throw a tiny-by-their-
| standards amount of money at a known-good metadata set
| and accompanying licenses for the music.
|
| (Though I agree, it'd be kind of silly for them to _not_
| let the people they 've acqui-hired keep on working on
| the "new" app in their domain.)
| comprev wrote:
| 100% this.
| derex wrote:
| I'm also a Primephonic subscriber. Been using it everyday
| for the past 8 months. Let's be honest, their mobile app
| sucks. I'm using iOS but willing to bet on their Android
| app sucking equally.
|
| That said, I'm paying them for the giant catalog, good
| curation, and a dedicated streaming service just for the
| classical genre. Realistically I think these will stay
| with Apple's acquisition. So in the long term I'll
| probably be happy.
|
| On the other hand, their decision to shut down the app
| before the alternative is launched is disappointing and
| unacceptable.
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| I don't think I'd agree with that dire an appraisal.
| iTunes _was_ a good music app for a fair number of years,
| particularly on the Mac. It started to lose its way as it
| was asked to do more and more things, but I don 't really
| think it fell off the cliff until they started
| integrating Beats Music into it. (IIRC, a lot of Apple
| Music's crazier UX ideas were present in some form in the
| pre-Apple Beats service, and subsequent iterations have
| just been different flavors of crazy. The metadata
| handling/matching, which has come up in this thread given
| how important that is for classical music, also got a lot
| worse post-Beats.)
|
| Personally, I hope the Primephonic developers don't just
| develop a new classical app for Apple, I hope they work
| on the Music app, too.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| In the beginning, iTunes never worked well once you had
| 10k+ songs. The user flows weren't designed to navigate
| large libraries, and it also slowed to a crawl.
|
| And it always felt like straight up malware on Windows
| with all the QuickTime update prompts.
| kall wrote:
| The three pane view was pretty good for my large-ish
| library (~15k songs) and I didn't have stability issues.
| But I wasn't there in the beginning. I guess it had at
| least a good stretch somewhere in the middle.
| zamalek wrote:
| > confusing messaging what this means for my subscription.
|
| It will go the same way as my Dark Skies purchase. You either
| move into the Apple walled garden, or make do without that
| service.
|
| Download your flacs while you can.
| notcoolbezos wrote:
| Never heard of this service before and I'm quite bummed that I
| hadn't stumbled on it earlier. I'm a huge fan of classical music
| and this would've been a treat to me.
|
| I wish they partnered with not just apple but also spotify and
| other streaming services by licensing their tech. This way they'd
| reach more people and not just apples user base.
| sgt wrote:
| Maybe I am the only one here but I feel like I want to own the
| physical media if I listen to classical and jazz.
| sails wrote:
| Vialma possibly a good alternative, with a small team of
| classical music enthusiasts.
|
| https://www.vialma.com/en
| philistine wrote:
| This is fascinating that they are already announcing that they
| will release an app specifically for classical music. It is rare
| for Apple to pre-announce software. What would be other examples?
| djrogers wrote:
| The closest parallel I can think of is actually very very close
| - when Apple acquired Beats they didn't hide the fact that they
| would be turning it into a native steaming music service. They
| even announced that they'd continue to support Android.
| [deleted]
| Raineer wrote:
| I am depressed because I am very much into classical music yet
| this post is how I found out there was a streaming service
| targeted towards classical -.-
| picardythird wrote:
| You aren't alone.
| bradly wrote:
| > Primephonic is no longer available for new subscribers and will
| be taken offline beginning September 7. Apple Music plans to
| launch a dedicated classical music app next year combining
| Primephonic's classical user interface that fans have grown to
| love with more added features.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| Why would they buy the service just to kill it off for at least
| four months?
|
| Copyright is probably not that big of a deal, given that it's
| classical music, and the userbase will probably dissolve in
| these months. So why spend the money?
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > Copyright is probably not that big of a deal, given that
| it's classical music
|
| Ahem, cough, you've just made the understatement of the
| century there !
|
| The legal situation regarding music goes waaaayyyyy beyond
| basic copyright.
|
| It highly specialist field there are lawyers who do nothing
| but music rights all day, every day.
|
| Google is your friend, but as a _very_ basic outline, you
| have to consider: - The use of the recorded
| music (and hence the rights of the record companies and the
| performers) - The use of the composition and lyrics
| - Distribution permissions
|
| And, of course if you are not the end-user but the operator
| of a streaming service then this will likely add not remove
| complexity.
|
| Whole big books have been written on the subject (e.g. _Kohn
| on Music Licensing_ at a mere 1636 pages). I 'm not even
| going to begin to try to summarise it - especially as IANAL
| anyway !
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Gotta have that incredible journey.
| onelovetwo wrote:
| > exclusive audio content
| floatingatoll wrote:
| To purchase all of the licensing deals?
| qzw wrote:
| Likely just an acquihire. I love classical music and never
| heard of Primephonic, so the user base was probably not that
| significant, at least by Apple standards.
| sonthonax wrote:
| Would an acquihire make sense though? Apple already has
| expertise streaming music.
|
| It'd be quite expensive simply growing the Music team by
| buying a profitable company.
| shatnersbassoon wrote:
| I was working in that space two years ago, and we estimated
| from triangulation of sources that they had around 10K
| paying users.
| drewda wrote:
| FWIW, copyright applies to recordings of classical music just
| as much as to recordings of contemporary music.
| boramalper wrote:
| Interesting how Idagio is not mentioned by anyone:
| https://about.idagio.com/
| ternaryoperator wrote:
| I'll mention Idagio. I subscribed for a year and liked it well
| enough. But then I subscribed to YouTube, so that there would
| be no commercials, and for $11/month I get to watch and listen
| to all the classical music I want, plus many other kinds of
| music that Idagio does not offer.
|
| I never thought I'd be writing these words, but once you pay to
| get rid of the ads, YouTube becomes and very deep inventory of
| classical concerts.
| [deleted]
| stuart78 wrote:
| As a fan of Classical music and Apple Music (the service, if not
| the app), I am on board. I've trialed a number of the dedicated
| services, but could never justify the added cost. I feel like
| Spotify's focus is on being the app for young people, which is
| all well and good, but not of much interest to me. If Apple wants
| to build a coalition of different types of listeners, they are
| meeting me where I am.
|
| Interested in seeing how the separate app plays out. I agree with
| the limitations of the current Music model, but wondering about
| support for my existing library (especially iTunes Match
| content). Feels especially odd on mobile to have one more player.
| musicale wrote:
| Apple Music finally went lossless, but the iTunes Store has been
| stuck on "iTunes Plus" 256 kbps AAC since 2009?!?!
|
| Lossless/future proofing is my primary reason for occasionally
| buying physical CDs, even if I just rip them and put them into a
| storage box.
| sgt wrote:
| 256kbps AAC is really good. I can't hear the difference.
| kemayo wrote:
| The most interesting thing about this is that Apple's pre-
| announcing that they're going to be launching a dedicated
| classical music app. Presumably it'll be very closely based on
| the current Primephonic app, and worked on by the same
| developers.
|
| This has some close parallels to Apple buying Workflow and
| turning it into their now-platform-standard Shortcuts app. It's
| still being worked on by the original developers, too.
|
| Shortcuts has been given fairly high priority in all Apple's
| recent OS releases, particularly as it ties into their home
| automation ecosystem, and it's resulted in surprising bursts of
| popularity. E.g. last years "#aesthetic" complete-homescreen-
| customization boom was entirely based on using Shortcuts as a
| hack to customize app icons.
|
| It's been honestly weird to see such a relatively high profile
| part of the OS being run as a mostly-independent subsidiary like
| that, particularly given Apple's notorious control-freak ways.
| Them expanding the approach like this rather than just cramming
| it into Music suggests that they think it's working well for
| them...
| eth0up wrote:
| Off topic, but possibly a gem for fans of classical, renaissance,
| etc. I've been listening to concertzender for 15 years or so, for
| free (though I've donated).
|
| https://www.concertzender.nl/en/
| Tycho wrote:
| Never heard of this service but that is great news. Browsing and
| navigation has always been a bit clunky for classical on Apple
| Music and other services.
|
| Incidentally, worth noting Apple Music has other stuff like
| spoken word poetry.
|
| We are blessed to live in an age with such unparalleled access to
| the finest products of culture.
| xchip wrote:
| what a nice way to reduce consumers' choice
| gumby wrote:
| This is great news! Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora etc are
| designed for pop music (Which I listen too as well) but which has
| specific conventions that don't necessarily apply to other types
| of music (e.g. for a lot of work, "shuffle" doesn't make sense at
| the granularity of a track).
| xchip wrote:
| they are not buying Primephonic, they are buying their users and
| now will make them go by Apple rules
| sitkack wrote:
| I don't think this should be allowed to happen. This is like when
| Amazon bought Goodreads and Abe Books, they own the whole
| ecosystem. Abe languishes in features that if they weren't owned
| by Amazon, would get fixed immediately.
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2008/08/01/amazon-to-acquire-abebooks...
|
| https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/28/amazon-acquires-social-rea...
|
| Apple is just extending their moat.
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