[HN Gopher] A street snack that has baffled botanists
___________________________________________________________________
A street snack that has baffled botanists
Author : periya
Score : 449 points
Date : 2021-08-08 01:42 UTC (21 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
| skunkworker wrote:
| That was a fascinating read on a snack I haven't yet tasted but
| now I want to try.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Some Unflappable Agave Wisdom from Joey Santore , aka "Crime Pays
| but Botany Doesn't":
|
| #41: Massive Flowers of Agave Shawii Ssp Goldmania
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWGGnYlRCU&ab_channel=Crime...
|
| >So anyway, here's that same habitat where I was filming
| scorpions last night, and here it is during the day time. [...]
|
| >Let's take a look over here. This massive Agave. Which is
| basically just, uh, I don't know, 20 or 30 years worth of a plant
| manufacturing sugars. So that's about 30 years worth of sunlight
| put into a sugar form, which stays in the heart of that plant.
| They're, remember, most Agaves are monocarpic, so they flower
| once and then die, and it's because they take that massive amount
| of sugar, and put everything they got into these flowers up
| there, which produce tremendous amount of nectar, which are then
| pollinated by bees and bats. You can see the stamens up there.
|
| >See the stamens have those anthers on 'em, those little banana
| shaped rads, with all the pollen. And then of course there's, for
| every flower, there's one central stigma, which is like the
| female part, it receives the pollen, so you have like six stamens
| and one stigma. And then when they're done, each one of those
| flowers turns into a tree lobed pod, which then has little tiny
| black flakey seeds in it. Each plant producing hundreds upon
| hundreds of seeds, only a few of which of course will form new
| plants.
|
| >You can see there's quite a few others doin' their thing and
| bloomin' right now. You can also imagine fallin' on that will
| quite possibly kill you. This one, like I said, Agaves are
| monocarpic, but uh, they do send out, I don't know what the word
| of them would be, I just call 'em pups. But basically, just, ya
| know, little Mini-Me's that they send out on the sides, so that
| when the main plant flowers, the show is still not that
| completely over.
|
| >See now this whole inflorescence is just alive with pollinators.
| It's buzzing. Imagine the amount of energy and carbohydrates
| needed to create a huge massive flowering stock like that. It's
| got to weight 150 pounds, easily. It's a 150 pound flower. Same
| with this one. And you can see it's already starting to shrivel
| 'cause its energy reserves start to diminish. If you just saw off
| all these leaves, you'd just have a massive, probably three or
| four hundred pound heart, composed almost entirely of
| carbohydrates.
|
| #51: Annotated, Profanity-Laced Checklist of Desert Ultramafics
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhWLtKy8kYY&ab_channel=Crime...
|
| >Now a quick introduction to what's called analtramafic,
| ultramafic soils, are almost always associated with subduction
| zones. They're also known as serpentine soils. And, uh, they're
| often very barren of plant life, being to the fact that they're
| toxic to most plants. That is, they have minerals like nickel,
| magnesium, and and excess amounts of iron, while also lacking
| essential plant nutrients such as calcium and nitrogen. So many
| plants have a hard time growin' in them, but many other plants
| have adapted to them. That's not to say that they necessarily
| thrive in them, but they're able to tolerate the soil chemistry.
| [...]
|
| >But look at this nice Agave Vizcainoensis. Another endemic to
| the region. Look at that thick cuticle it's got in it. You can
| almost see it. Look at those pores. Look at that nice thick
| cuticle. Oh, what a beautiful plant. I love this guy.
|
| #74: Sassy Bastards of the Last Chance Range b/w Agave Utahensis
| Var Eborispina
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yViQeLpPM&ab_channel=Crime...
|
| >Now here is somethin' that's real nice. I think you probably
| will like it a lot. This is a species of Agave known only from
| the limestone soils in Southwestern Nevada, and a little bit into
| Eastern California, right here on the Nevada border. This is
| Agave Utahensis variety Eborispinus. And here's one about two
| weeks shy of flowering. You can see that flower spike just came
| up. Now that flower, of course, will open, it will get pollenated
| by a variety of different bees, and perhaps some bats as well,
| and then it will die. But you can see it's already got another
| offset comin' up that will survive, and then will probably flower
| a couple years later down the line.
|
| >Now the reason this is called variety Eborispina is pretty
| obvious when you get up close and you look at these rosetta leaf
| blades, which, uh, I mean, is kinda just sayin' "Leave Me Alone!"
| You can see the tips of these leaf blades are about six inches
| long, probably, seven inches in some case. A very sharp, very
| hard, very easy to dissuade any potential herbivores or jack
| asses like myself from puttin' my hand right there at the base of
| this large flowering shoot, the peduncle. Now look at those
| spines. And again, this only grows on calcium carbonate soils, on
| the limestone. There's three different species in this genus:
| Nevadensis, Utahensis, and Eborispina. There might be one more.
| Utahensis is the name of the species. Might not be the name of
| the subspecies. It's either subspecies or variety. I don't know.
| Don't matter. Either way: What a fuck'n remarkable plant! [...]
|
| >These things are nice too. These peduncles, these big peduncles,
| 'cause you can, uh, when it's done, they're woody, you can cut
| them off, and, uh, beat your friends with them, etcetera.
|
| #154: Cat-calling Milkweds, Tracking Hippies, & Consoling
| Grandpas
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefiIdZR7Ck&ab_channel=Crime...
|
| >Obsolete Racist Grandpa Trigger Warning
|
| >Kinda glandular, too. A little bit, uh, little bit frilly, ehe?
| Look at those big-ass brachs. On the back of the flowers, too,
| huh? Like on this guy, you know? It's so nice. Doesn't that make
| you feel good? Doesn't that make you feel better? Maybe all those
| crazy white boys that are going shootin' up malls and shit, you
| know? Too bad they didn't know about botany, you know? Could have
| just calmed them right down, you know. Maybe they just should
| have just studied plant science a little better, some shit. You
| know? 'Cause it really, it's like the tissue paper that wipes the
| ass. You know, it gets rid of all the shit stain of modern
| society and civilization, huh? 'Cause you know, it's not a pretty
| world out there, folks, at least if you're looking at the human
| world. Kinda makes me wanna die. But then you just got look at
| that, uh, something like that monotropa, you feel a little bit
| better, huh? So you got much more music forest over here, and
| then here you got a royal like halis slope, then you got a, what
| seems to be an Agave Parryi. Certainly one of the Agaves. It is
| producing pups. So that when a, you know, the mother plant dies,
| you know, it's monocarpic so they die after flowering, it just
| sends out other pups.
|
| https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/august-2019/joey-santor...
|
| >Meet the "Misanthropic Chicago Italian" Who Charmed Twitter. The
| self-taught botanist sounds off on going viral, preserving the
| natural world, and the story behind that accent.
| mandeville wrote:
| I have a hypothesis. What if this were agave root, but
| bathed/stored in something that broke down the cellulose. This
| would give a second reason they cut only an outside layer, in
| addition to being against the grain. Also it would explain the
| secrecy as the chemicals might be harmful.
| ptr2voidStar wrote:
| Quite Interesting!
| wombatmobile wrote:
| "The mysterious <common thing> that has baffled <expert
| professionals> for <inordinate amount of time>"
|
| -- Click bait sub editor
| MattGaiser wrote:
| A lot of "baffled scientists for decades" is more that the
| scientists know about it but have never taken time to look as
| there are other things to do. It is a ridiculous spin.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Except, as mentioned in the article, they _did_ look into it,
| to the extent of DNA testing it! And still didn't come to a
| particularly satisfactory conclusion. "It might be an agave,
| but also the agave expert says agaves aren't like that" is
| about as far as anyone seems to have gotten.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| > Except, as mentioned in the article, they _did_ look into
| it, to the extent of DNA testing it!
|
| What do your experts make of this wikipedia article?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maerua_oblongifolia
| apocolyps6 wrote:
| If you read 4 paragraphs into that article, you will find
| out
| wombatmobile wrote:
| Try harder and follow the links
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlwOrdciEX8
| hug wrote:
| Well, the experts which were consulted by the writer of
| the article have this to say:
|
| > I had a breakthrough a few months later when I came
| across a thesis paper by Dr. MS Rathore, who had
| propagated Maerua oblongifolia in the lab in 2011. He had
| seen the tree many times in the desert state of
| Rajasthan. "But I haven't heard or seen anybody eating
| the root," the scientist said over a call, sounding
| puzzled.
|
| > "Its roots are sparse and inedible," added Dr. NS
| Shekhawat, his thesis adviser and a retired professor of
| botany. "Growing in dry regions, where will it have so
| much water to develop big roots and be fat and juicy?
| [The snack] can't be Maerua oblongifolia."
|
| Which seems to provide a little bit of a counterpoint.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| So, it's an unclassified botanical specimen. That's not
| really a "mystery". It's just an unclassified botanical
| specimen.
|
| This makes the product application of the root even less
| mysterious:
|
| "It was seasoned with salt, chili powder, and lime; my
| husband's had sugar and lime. It was crunchy, juicy, and
| refreshing, but had no taste of its own."
| rsynnott wrote:
| It's _extremely_ weird that there is a commonly sold
| food, and no-one can figure out what it is. In
| particular, the vendors are unwilling to talk about it,
| and where pushed vaguely claim it's an agave, but the
| agave expert says it's not (of course, maybe he's wrong).
|
| The whole thing is fascinating. It's a low-stakes
| mystery, but a mystery all the same.
| citizenpaul wrote:
| Based on the comment about
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphide in agave can be
| toxic. And the fact that it is only sold in paper thin
| strips. My guess is the vendors are aware that it is
| poison but in those parts of the world life is cheap and
| money is hard to come by. So they just ignore this and
| carry on selling it. Anyone asking might be there
| investigating the cause of some of their health issues.
| notatoad wrote:
| Yeah, the headline certainly follows the clickbait tropes. But
| in this case, it appears to be legit - experts _actually_ don
| 't know and the vendors keep it a closely guarded secret.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| It kills me that every researcher the writer contacted has
| never actually seen the plant or bothered to go look for it,
| including the guy that studied agave!
| sterlind wrote:
| that's academia for you. lots of book smarts, useless at
| street smarts.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| It's not a question of the competency of academics.
|
| > So why is there still doubt about the identity of this
| snack? "Which species of agave is it--Sisalana or
| Americana or any other?" Dr. Shimpale says. "We can't
| conclude until the vendors show the plant to us. They
| keep this as a business secret to create curiosity around
| it."
|
| The vendors won't give them access to the source, so the
| academics can't practice their botany.
| nerdponx wrote:
| According to the article, the vendors might not know the full
| story, since they get it from distributors.
| rsynnott wrote:
| I'm not sure what your point is; the title is an entirely
| accurate summary of the content of the article.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| I didn't read the article because it looked like click bait.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| I thought it was interesting. Who knew that Indian street
| food was wrapped in so much mystery?
| wombatmobile wrote:
| > I'm not sure what your point is; the title is an entirely
| accurate summary of the content of the article.
|
| You may not have seen this before, but that doesn't mean it
| is "mysterious".
|
| Do you find Coke or KFC "mysterious"? Those are snack foods
| with trade secret recipes. Your story is about something
| similar.
|
| A simple google search will take you to this youtube video,
| posted in 2015. Read the comments to dispel the "mystery".
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dck923eejQA
| jorams wrote:
| The comments don't mention anything that isn't in the
| article.
| a_bonobo wrote:
| Isn't it a bit... terrifying to buy and eat food, when nobody
| wants to tell you what that food actually is??
| q-rews wrote:
| My logic is: If others eat it, it's fine. It also helps to eat
| it with someone who's somewhat familiar with it.
|
| My first time in Thailand I ate a disgusting salty soup with a
| spoon. It turns out you're supposed to dip vegetables in it.
| What I did was the equivalent of eating ketchup with a spoon,
| except it was many times more flavorful.
|
| Now I love it: namphrikkapi
| CarelessExpert wrote:
| > My logic is: If others eat it, it's fine
|
| People used to eat radium, inhale mercury, and play in piles
| of asbestos before we came to understand their long term
| health effects.
|
| You might want to rethink this.
| q-rews wrote:
| That risk is fine to me. I meant it more as a "people eat
| it, so it must be likable" than "people eat it, so it won't
| kill me."
| hyperpallium2 wrote:
| coke secret recipe, KFC secret herbs and spices
| muzani wrote:
| Health authorities know those. Street food isn't regulated
| that way.
| a_bonobo wrote:
| one's sugar water, one is at least identifiable chicken! it
| would be closer to KFC secret herbs and spices on bushmeat
| dehrmann wrote:
| They at least have to be generally regarded safe. I will say
| that as a vegetarian, "natural flavors" can be pretty
| annoying.
| edoceo wrote:
| KFC recipe is out there. Saw it on Reddit a few years ago.
| Followed it. Damn good chicken.
| aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote:
| I thought that process required a pressure fryer. Do you
| have one?
| edoceo wrote:
| I don't. You can get the flavour w/o that cooker, but the
| juicy-ness requires it.
|
| Those things are like boats tho. Better to have a friend
| with one ;)
| girishso wrote:
| Don't they have to follow strict regulations and pass various
| tests?
| derefr wrote:
| For both of those, you can put them through some
| chromatography/spectrography/etc. and figure out essentially
| what's in them -- what ingredients, in what ratios. What you
| won't find out is the particular _process_ required to get
| those ingredients "formatted" the right way to taste like
| the result.
|
| (E.g. Coke apparently does some fancy, hard-to-replicate-at-
| home kind of micronized emulsification to the flavoring oils
| that go into it, to get them into suspension in a water-based
| drink in a way that results in a smooth--but not viscous or
| lingering--mouth-feel. That process doesn't change _what 's_
| in Coke; it just changes _how_ it 's in there.)
|
| Also, in both of those cases, FDA inspectors know not only
| the what but also the how, as they check the manufacturing
| process to ensure that they're putting in what they
| (privately) claim to be putting in, no more and no less. And
| we can then trust the FDA to not let them put anything too
| "weird" in there, while _they_ can also trust the FDA to not
| tell everyone what they know about the process.
| coldcode wrote:
| When I was in college in the 70's we went to a Miller
| brewery where they told us about some blue liquid they
| poured into Miller High Life that allowed them to ship the
| beer in clear bottles instead of brown. It came in tanker
| cars full; they claimed the FDA didn't know what it was
| (don't think I believed them).
| goldenkey wrote:
| Likely was just a kind of food coloring. Simply by
| changing the tint of the beverage, one can prevent
| absorption of a band of light.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| I don't know what they used in the seventies, but now
| they use hop oil extract. The extraction process
| eliminates the possibility of the skunking/lightstruck
| reaction. Most colorless glass bottled beer use that
| today, though not all. The green bottle beers mostly
| don't, though they're still susceptible to skunking.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| Do you feel that way when you walk into a Subway?
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/22/subway-sandw...
| NavinF wrote:
| Does cooked and processed food normally contain intact DNA
| that can be sequenced? Seems like those researchers suck at
| their job if they failed to figure out what the tuna is made
| of and still insist on drawing a conclusion based on their
| lack of success.
| goldenkey wrote:
| Not to mention the use of plasticizers in their bread (the
| same kind used in car tires.) And most importantly, factory
| farmed meat, contributing both to climate change and immense
| sentient suffering.
| djur wrote:
| No, the wellness scammer who started the rumors about "yoga
| mat chemicals" successfully managed to pressure Subway to
| remove azodicarbonamide from their bread. I'm sure they
| replaced it with some other equally harmless dough
| conditioner.
| goldenkey wrote:
| I don't know much about the wellness scammer but that's a
| poor way to support your stance.
|
| Azodicarbonamide has been banned in quite a few
| countries. It's only listed as safe at 40 parts per
| million. It has possible carcinogenic products in the
| form of other carbazides. It doesn't have a large amount
| of research/testing on it. It is a known lung irritant
| and caused respiratory issues in factory workers who
| produce it.
|
| You may be okay with random hydrocarbons being added to
| your food. But not everyone is as naive as you.
|
| Notice, you changed the topic to a kook and then invoked
| ad hominem. Very bad intentions. Much lack of substance.
| Dishonest attempt to convince others through baseless
| assertions. So shameful.
| djur wrote:
| I don't know why you thought that personal attacks were
| merited here, but the fact remains that Subway removed
| azodicarbonamide from their bread years ago, as did many
| other fast food chains.
|
| https://www.eater.com/2016/8/8/12403338/subway-yoga-mat-
| chem...
| goldenkey wrote:
| That doesn't make a difference. You called
| azodicarbonamide harmless. Companies have a culture.
| Their history reflects that.
| danuker wrote:
| De-AMP-ed link (mine was redirecting to the favicon):
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/22/subway-
| sandw...
|
| I wonder whether it's canned, and whether sterilizing it can
| make the DNA unreadable (broken down).
| projektfu wrote:
| Wonder no more. The answer is that the NYT is likely
| overstating the power of the testing they did.
|
| https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/foodservice-
| retail/subway...
| djur wrote:
| Subway is perfectly willing to admit that most of their
| cold cuts are turkey-based, so it seems extra unlikely
| that they'd go to the trouble of creating an ersatz tuna
| and then hiding that fact. Especially considering how
| cheap tuna is, comparatively. The way you cheap out on
| tuna salad is adding more mayo and thickeners and other
| fillers, not by inventing some kind of psuedofish.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| Thanks. Corrected.
| bagels wrote:
| Yes. That is why I don't.
| spoonjim wrote:
| What on earth is in a Cheeto? Far more mysterious than this
| snack, which is clearly some plant matter with some salt and
| spices that other people eat regularly without falling over
| dead.
| djur wrote:
| Corn meal, powdered cheese, oil, and salt, mostly.
| addingnumbers wrote:
| Cheetos are extruded cornmeal paste that's been fried and
| dusted with powdered cheese, salt, and MSG
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| That powder is a trade secret. Every year they make it
| finer, to coat your taste buds more perfectly and have a
| more intense flavor. But nobody is questioning if eating
| microscopic particles of (what?) is healthy or has side
| effects. It's tasty! Don't get between me and my Cheetos!
| noduerme wrote:
| I know, I thought that was funny. But does anyone really know
| what's in a Dodger dog?
| mdorazio wrote:
| Sure do - you could even buy them yourself with ingredients
| list and everything until they switched vendors this year:
| https://www.amazon.com/Farmer-John-Dodger-Wieners-
| Package/dp...
| mPReDiToR wrote:
| Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler made an entire business of selling
| "meat" pies.
|
| On several continents. In differing time periods.
|
| People eat "kebab" "gyro" or whatever the local term is for
| doner (suspiciously has a single n, shouldn't be pronounced the
| way it is) meat in a pitta regularly after large quantities of
| alcohol, whereas they eschew the things when sober.
| andybak wrote:
| I'll eat shawarma, gyros any time day or night. Food of the
| gods.
|
| UK style doner I'm a little more circumspect about but that's
| mainly because of processing rather than provence.
| abhi_kr wrote:
| Oh, I've eaten this thing once while visiting Dongargarh, a
| Temple town located in central India.
|
| It was the only time I had seen this thing. There were dozens of
| vendors selling this lined up on the stairs to the temple.
|
| It seems the snack has gone popular now. It's quite tasteless,
| felt like eating soft wood.
|
| Never expected to find this on Hackernews!
| rachmizard wrote:
| asaaaaa
| rachmizard wrote:
| keripikk!!
| icy wrote:
| Hah, I've lived in Bangalore for about ~20 years and I've never
| heard of this. Very fascinating.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| I read this article elsewhere. I don't quite get why it says no
| one know's, then it's genetically and visually matched to a type
| of agave, and then they go back to not knowing? It seems some of
| the counter argument is assuming that "Agave" are all the same
| when specific types will have specific traits. Otherwise it's an
| interesting read.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Look at the wikipedia article for agave. The varied species are
| quite different from each other.
| barkha2803 wrote:
| Hi. I am the author of this article :) To sum up, most research
| as of now points to Agave but botanists who did the DNA
| barcoding don't want to commit to Agave. For two reasons: 1) It
| is 89% close to Agave, the Sisalana variety but 11% is open to
| doubts and research. 2)The Agave expert, who tried to make a
| beverage out of it and has worked on it for years, says it's
| can't be agave. He has eaten both the snack, as well as agave,
| that's why.
|
| To complicate things, I have inspected agave (its length and
| girth) closely and I find it impossible to believe that it can
| hold within it such a fat and smooth thing. But I am no
| scientist.
|
| I went to a village recently, which has agave growing left,
| right and centre. One woman suggested it could be Eetha Gadda,
| a palm, and my heart sank because its stump did look very fat.
| But then other villagers said it wasn't possible. They think
| it's most likely Agave and their ancestors probably ate in the
| past, during drought.
|
| I plan to do a behind-the-scenes vlog for the article to
| explain what all I have tried and what all you may take
| further. For starters, a reader from the US says something
| similar from Agave is eaten in Mexico. A reader from Iraq says
| this may belong to a palm tree but the stump isn't as fat.
|
| I hope you and botanists will tell me more.
|
| Good luck.
| chias wrote:
| What does it mean to be "89% close to" Agave when it comes to
| DNA? Are we talking genetic similarity, or estimated
| likelihood of a match?
|
| Considering that a human's genetic similarity to a cat is 90%
| and even to a banana is about 60%, 89% doesn't sound like all
| that much.
| mackman wrote:
| Have you looked into any processing steps between harvest and
| serving? I am curious if they are
| soaking/fermenting/acidifying it in some way which would
| account for the differences described from straight agave.
| stbtrax wrote:
| where can we find your vlog?
| chidg wrote:
| Hi, I appreciated your article. Do you know when Agave was
| introduced to India? Perhaps a timeline may assist with
| determining the identity of the food, since Agaves are from
| central and South America and were presumably brought to
| India sometime in the past few hundred years. Is this a food
| item that has a long tradition?
|
| Small note of feedback since I couldn't find a way to comment
| on the Atlas Obscura site. Species names are conventionally
| written with the specific epithet entirely in lower case,
| like 'Genus species'. In the article, you have frequently
| capitalised the specific epithet. This is a small issue but
| made the article quite hard to read for a details-focused
| botanist such as myself.
| otherme123 wrote:
| Came to say the same about naming. Just want to add that
| after the first full naming, they should be shortened as
| 'G. specie', and not 'Specie' like they do.
|
| With those 2 simple rules you have your needs covered.
| Corner cases add complicatiins, but unless you are in the
| bussiness you shouldn't need it.
| Galaxity wrote:
| I Just looked up photos of agave sisalana and it actually has
| a palm like trunk/stem about the size of what is shown being
| served.
|
| Whereas the agave americana doesn't and seems to grows it's
| leaves right out from the ground.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisal
|
| Edit: well I guess after looking further I shouldn't say
| agave americana doesn't have a trunk coming out of the
| ground. Probably all agaves could if they grow long enough.
| But it does look like this snack is the trunk of an agave.
| dandelany wrote:
| Interesting article. I also can't imagine that it's either
| sisal or Americana exactly, both are so tough & fibrous, and
| are in such widespread cultivation that this preparation
| would be more well-known. The agave heart or "pina" used for
| mezcal is somewhat similar but not _that_ similar. Agaves
| very quickly grow some massive asparagus-shaped flower stalks
| before they die, is it possible this is the base of an
| enormous stalk rather than a stem? Never seen one this big
| but maybe it's out there.
|
| I also would not discount the possibility that these are not
| raw exactly but prepared/treated somehow. Obviously the fact
| that they taste like water limits the possibilities, but
| maybe a stem is placed in water for awhile to make it way
| more engorged than it would ever become naturally. Or maybe
| it's soaked or boiled after harvesting, and flushed with
| clean water to improve the texture and reduce toxic effects.
| Raw agave contains calcium raphides, a painful irritant
| (experienced by another commenter upthread, btw) so some kind
| of preparation might be necessary.
|
| I always love a good nerdy mystery story. Good luck on your
| search :)
| thechao wrote:
| We have the _americana_ all over central Texas; the stalks
| that grow here are more like vertical _rope_ , smell like
| death & are green/brown all the way through. They're also
| segmented & don't get nearly fat enough as shown.
| nerdponx wrote:
| But nobody knows which agave, and at least one botanist insists
| that neither of the 2 likely agave candidates are quite right.
| Maybe some special selectively-bred version?
|
| It seems like we will get more answers after Covid when field
| research (eating parts of various agaves) can recommence.
| newdude116 wrote:
| I googled a little bit. There are many videos with comments about
| this snack.
|
| As mentioned it could be Maerua oblongifolia Here is a scientific
| paper: https://www.ijcrt.org/papers/IJCRT1892916.pdf
| deep-root wrote:
| SYAC summary: Street vendors thinly slice "tree trunks" to order,
| and tell similar impossible stories of where they source it. In
| the end, one confirms from photos it is a type of Agave plant and
| they paint it red.
| esjeon wrote:
| The whole business sounds very shady. It's likely that the plant
| is sourced from the side of roads, untended fields, forests,
| construction companies (selling anything they find for coffee
| money), etc. It's a completely black area, outside of food
| regulations, so they can't expose the actual source, no matter
| what.
|
| This can also explain the confusing reports from multiple
| researchers, because academic "species" don't matter in places
| like this. The vendors simply sell what looks similar to what
| they used to sell.
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| It's Indian street food so I'd say what you describe is the
| optimistic scenario. Worst case it's an industrial product of
| sorts, produced backyard factories. South Asia has a huge
| variety of culinary plants and snacks, some of which are
| unknown even to locals, especially if it's a regional thing.
| But that no one would know and no one wants to talk about what
| it is, that's highly suspicious.
|
| It's really sad, China and India have among the best food in
| the world but they also have among the worst food safety
| record. Almost anything can be faked or adulterated for profit,
| from cooking oil that makes people go blind to instant baby
| formula that kills the infants.
| achow wrote:
| There is no food 'regulation' for the snacks sold in open cart.
| There are innumerable varieties of such snack which are not
| 'mysterious'.
|
| This seems to be 'mysterious' because of the writing skill of
| the author. She successfully managed to create a buzz.
|
| If finding the answer was the goal it could have been easily
| found out by offering 10X-50X (approx $150-$700 = Annual income
| perhaps) the money they offered mentioned in the article as a
| proposition to take over their business and as part of that
| asking them to show the source of the 'supply'.
| yunohn wrote:
| The author isn't looking to setup a roadside snack business.
| Throwing money at a "problem" is not a real solution.
|
| I think the people in the article have made a good-faith
| attempt to research and find out more about the snack.
| Cederfjard wrote:
| If paying enough to incentivize vendors to share the secret
| works, and why wouldn't it, how is that not a "real"
| solution?
| yunohn wrote:
| I'm not sure where you're coming from in this discussion.
| Nobody is saying bribery won't work in such situations.
|
| But you do understand that the author is a journalist
| (1), and really just aiming to research for an article
| that presents some intriguing material, right? Not a
| roadside snacks competitor, with a large budget to spend
| on getting these sellers to exfiltrate supply chain
| intel.
|
| (1) https://www.atlasobscura.com/users/mediabarkha?view=a
| rticles
| Cederfjard wrote:
| I didn't understand from the phrasing in your initial
| comment that you were saying "yeah that could've worked,
| but it wouldn't have been economically feasible for her
| to do that just for the sake of an article, so it's not
| an actual solution in this context". So I was genuinely
| wondering why you thought that wasn't a real solution.
| Like you had philosophical objections to doing journalism
| in that way. But now I'm following.
| yunohn wrote:
| Why would you not read the entirety of my comment, and
| miss the context behind "not a real solution"? If you
| reread it, you'll see the the gist of it was the same as
| my follow-up.
| simonh wrote:
| Not if it's actually toxic. In that case revealing the source
| could get them in serious trouble and wouldn't be worth it at
| any price.
| crooked-v wrote:
| For a year's income the person involved could show them,
| get the money, and book it to a different part of the city
| where they'll be impossible to find again.
| stinos wrote:
| _This seems to be 'mysterious' because of the writing skill
| of the author._
|
| While 'mysterious' is hard to quantify objectively, the thing
| is: it is not known for sure what it is yet widely available,
| sounds mysterious enough, right? Or is your point that it
| actualy is known, but the author doesn't happen to know?
|
| _it could have been easily found out by offering 10X-50X_
|
| What makes you so sure the author can easily come up with
| what you call an 'annual income perhaps', just to pursue some
| story?
| [deleted]
| acchow wrote:
| With multiple layers of middlemen, it's possible the vendors
| don't even know what the source is.
| achow wrote:
| This would be thin margin, low volume business and usually
| these cart owners source all the raw materials directly.
| [deleted]
| omega3 wrote:
| Could it be agave and other smaller plants shredded and pressed
| into this log shape?
| girishso wrote:
| I have eaten it many times, vendors say it's a root. But the last
| time I ate it, it was little more fibrous and hard and I ate
| little more than the usual. For the next couple of days my tongue
| was itching and I had little difficulty speaking. Then I googled
| it and read somewhere that it's not edible.
|
| It's surprising experts don't know what the thing is given it's
| so commonly available.
| dandelany wrote:
| Yikes. Your symptoms were likely caused by calcium oxalate
| raphides, little mineral needles present in raw agave (and
| several other plants). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphide
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| That's extremely interesting. Nature never ceases to amaze.
| girishso wrote:
| May be, but it surely scared the hell out of me.
| amelius wrote:
| Your linked article says at the bottom that these things are
| also present in spinach, beets and pineapple.
| Laforet wrote:
| Most cultivated edible plants have been selected against
| having too many raphides. Though people can still be
| sensitive to fresh pineapple and kiwifruit which contains
| proteases that amplifies the damage done by the oxalate
| needles.
|
| Wild plants, on the other hand , has not been subject to
| the same selection process and could easily contain a
| dangerous amount of oxalate.
| aardvarkr wrote:
| Trade secrets are trade secrets.
| rsyring wrote:
| TFA says it's probably Agave. They also say:
|
| > However, it may not be so healthy. "Agave has lots of
| alkaloids. It can be poisonous if eaten in large quantities.
| Maybe that's why they sell thin slices," Dr. Yadav, now
| retired, warns.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| There are over 270 species of agave, that doesn't really
| answer anything.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| If you read the article they say the specific Agave that
| they linked to using DNA analysis.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| From the paper
|
| > The similarity search showed 89% identity with the
| partial sequence of the plastid locus maturase of Agave
| sisalana
| treis wrote:
| 89% isn't very similar though.
| kortex wrote:
| Species doesn't mean as much in the plant world. Cabbage,
| broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts, collard
| greens, kohlrabi, and gai lan are all _Brassica
| oleracea_. You can have specimens that are even
| technically the same cultivar but wildly different
| alimentary character.
| danwills wrote:
| Hooray!! I totally love the way 'Brassica' vegetables
| provide such a vivid illustration of the amazing variety
| that some selection-pressure can yield on the development
| of essentially a single type of input organism. Makes you
| wonder what might happen when these types of selection-
| pressures start affecting humankind more!
| galangalalgol wrote:
| Brassica and domesticated dogs diversified because of
| controlled breeding. Unless you get a bunch of
| totalitarian eugenicists with differing goals, I dont
| know how this could happen with people.
| PhasmaFelis wrote:
| I could imagine it happening if interstellar colonization
| ever becomes a thing, maybe.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| TIL that the vegetable aisle has half the species I
| thought it did.
| kortex wrote:
| Oh yeah. Brassica rapa has your turnip, napa cabbage, bok
| choy and rapini/rabes. Brassica napus gives canola oil,
| swedish turnip, and rutabaga. Mustard comes from B.
| juncea, B. nigra and B. hirta.
|
| Also those species names aren't really even guaranteed to
| be accurate because biologists, botanists, geneticists,
| etc, can't even really agree on where to draw the line.
|
| There's a whole genre of Brassica memes and it's
| fantastic.
|
| https://mobile.twitter.com/faineg/status/1386522223901618
| 177...
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| I think napa cabbage and a few others are also all the
| "other" brassica.
| garmaine wrote:
| The DNA analysis didn't identify the exact variety.
| pragnesh wrote:
| seems like palm tree https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkSeFP5Jjt8
| pragnesh wrote:
| Bhoochakara Gadda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTzOU-tt4U
| Renaud wrote:
| Seems more likely. Texture and size seem to match the
| article.
|
| Good find.
| vore wrote:
| Doesn't the article debunk this in the first paragraphs?
| That night, I googled Bhoochakara Gadda. There wasn't much.
| Wikipedia identified the scientific name of the plant as
| Maerua oblongifolia, but had no photos of it. Maerua
| oblongifolia is a low, woody, undershrub found in India,
| Pakistan, parts of Africa, and Saudi Arabia, whose tubers
| are sold as snacks and used as a stimulant in the ancient
| medicine system of Siddha, I read. Research papers showed
| its leaves and flowers but not the root. So I decided to
| dig in. I had a breakthrough a few months
| later when I came across a thesis paper by Dr. MS Rathore,
| who had propagated Maerua oblongifolia in the lab in 2011.
| He had seen the tree many times in the desert state of
| Rajasthan. "But I haven't heard or seen anybody eating the
| root," the scientist said over a call, sounding puzzled.
| "Its roots are sparse and inedible," added Dr. NS
| Shekhawat, his thesis adviser and a retired professor of
| botany. "Growing in dry regions, where will it have so much
| water to develop big roots and be fat and juicy? [The
| snack] can't be Maerua oblongifolia."
|
| Additionally, the plant in the video looks nothing like
| Maerua oblongifolia:
| http://inaturalist.org/taxa/505837-Maerua-oblongifolia
| Renaud wrote:
| Palm tree heart is layered and fairly brittle, Even if you
| could slice it as thin as they sell the snack, it would just
| come apart.
|
| The pictures in the article don't show that arrangement, it's
| more of a single fibrous block.
|
| I've eaten plenty of fresh palm-tree heart, you either slice it
| thin it to eat raw or cook it in larger blocks, in say some
| curry.
| pragnesh wrote:
| yes, it is layered
| literallyaduck wrote:
| TL;DR; it's agave.
|
| I was hoping it was a byproduct of recycling waste. Mystery
| creates buzz. The danger of a mystery food is part of why hot
| dogs and food cart food as a whole are popular.
| kortex wrote:
| What? Who eats hotdogs and food carts because of the _mystery_?
| I eat hot dogs cause they are fast, cheap, and delicious tubes
| of fatty salty meat. I eat food cart food _cause it 's just
| fucking delicious_. I don't know the exact spec, but the Halal
| meat-on-a-spit is almost always lamb and beef doner kebab. The
| sauce is mostly yogurt, mayo, dill and oregano. I make my own
| sometimes.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner_kebab
| nuclearnice1 wrote:
| People eat hot dogs for the danger and mystery. Hmm.
| literallyaduck wrote:
| Here is a fun filled article about the history of the hot
| dog. The time of "The Jungle" and mystery meat reminded me of
| the hidden origins of the plant in the original story:
| https://www.thehotdog.org/history-of-the-hot-dog/
| jcun4128 wrote:
| Reminds me of the cameron apple that is a guava injected with red
| dye and flavored artificially.
|
| Saw on Weird Explorer YT
| jsight wrote:
| I feel like there is a strong possibility that the sources vary.
| Possibly even some of them aren't so edible.
|
| How else could it have been readily available for decades without
| a clear source being well known?
| singularity2001 wrote:
| meta: how can atlasobscura.com operate legally in Europe when the
| only cookie option is 'confirm'?
| convery wrote:
| In the same way popups saying "by continuing to view this site
| you consent to cookies" do? The user is informed and the cookie
| is(/should be) only set once they click a link / button /
| scroll past the initial view, which means they have taken an
| 'informed' action regarding cookies.
| MereInterest wrote:
| That conforms to the earlier EU cookie directive, but not to
| the GDPR. Under the GDPR, consent much be freely and
| explicitly given, and must be as easy to revoke as it is to
| give. Clicking a link or scrolling down is not explicit.
| Since use of the site is conditional on accepting the
| tracking, the consent isn't freely given. Since there is no
| button to reject the cookies, it is harder to reject the
| tracking than it is to accept.
|
| Failing all three conditions for acquiring consent, my
| conclusion is that the site is blatantly violating the GDPR.
| bingidingi wrote:
| there are so many sites running afoul to gdpr technically that
| it would be impossible to penalize all of them
| newdude116 wrote:
| I have installed the "I don't care about cookies" plug-in. All
| cookies are deleted when I close my browser.
| snowwrestler wrote:
| Who says it is operating in Europe? Just because you can reach
| it with a browser from Europe does not mean it has a business
| nexus in the EU.
|
| Yes I know the EU claims that GDPR covers the entire world, but
| the practical reality is that they do not have overseas strike
| forces going after small web publishers for cookie banners.
| Twixes wrote:
| TBH there isn't even a domestic enforcement of cookie
| preferences, no one actually gives a damn it seems.
| Violations of handling personal data - fines do happen for
| that. Cookies - nope, you won't even get a notice.
| Rexxar wrote:
| I have blocked the popup and I block third parties requests and
| I have only two cookies at the moment :
| ao_cookies_ok:0 eu_origin:1
|
| So it's not ok (the irremovable popup), but it could be worse.
| imvetri wrote:
| Never step in other men's food
| Pxtl wrote:
| YouTube Video of the mystery street vendors:
|
| https://youtu.be/v7sn42heQ2w
|
| Why do they keep saying "anybody can eat this"?
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| Technically the truth, anybody _can_ eat this. They didn 't say
| it's a good idea to do so ;)
| jackvalentine wrote:
| I don't get it, rather than using the tools of botany and DNA
| analysis why not just pay a PI to follow the vendor -> supplier
| -> source trail?
| grawprog wrote:
| >Probe them and they'll cart away. "Forest officials in
| Maharashtra have tried to spy on them, but it was futile," Dr.
| Nimbalkar recalls.
| gus_massa wrote:
| Perhaps they are getting bribes from the street vendors to
| look the other way, and that reduces they spying abilities.
| jackvalentine wrote:
| Thanks somehow I missed that. Incompetent reading!
|
| Obviously we're not in possession of all the facts here but
| it sounds like incompetent spying to me. Much more difficult
| operations are carried out every single day.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| They might not have had the amount of budget necessary to
| observe them from a drone for months
| jackvalentine wrote:
| A drone seems like overkill.
| kyriakos wrote:
| This and also botanists at universities can easily
| explain budget expenditures on DNA testing but not on
| hiring PIs.
| bboreham wrote:
| The answers from street vendors reminded me of the stories
| software salespeople will tell you about how the product was
| created.
| drubio wrote:
| This looks like a giant variety of 'Pachyrhizus erosus' or
| Jicama, which is also a street snack widely sold in Mexico. I'v
| never seen ones as large as the one in the article, but the
| watery texture and how it's condimented (lemon, sugar, salt,
| chili powder) is exactly like Jicama. Seems wikipedia has a
| reference to ones as large as 2 meters and 20 kg
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachyrhizus_erosus so it may be
| like those tree trunk sizes in the article.
|
| It's not Agave. Agave roots are very fibery and dry, there's
| almost no moisture in them and you wouldn't be able to cut such
| thin slices like the article points out, agave roots are mashed
| up to start the Tequila process, here are some pics
| http://www.todomezcal.com/Elaboracion/molienda.html
|
| Source: I've cut open both Agave and Jicama plants, I grew up in
| Mexico. You can find Jicama/(fruit) street vendors in most
| Mexican cities main streets or outside Mexico a mexican market is
| also a safe bet. They have rough peel, like a potato but rougher,
| and they're about 90% water.
| sithadmin wrote:
| It looks much more like a peeled and shaped west african giant
| yam than it does any kind of jicama.
| Clewza313 wrote:
| This seems unlikely, since jicama is widely eaten in India as
| well, and much smaller than what the images depict. (I don't
| doubt it _can_ grow that large, just that I 've never seen it
| that big.) The texture also looks off for jicama, which is more
| watery and can't be sliced that thin.
|
| Wikipedia: "In Bengali, it is known as shankhalu (shaaNkh
| aalu), literally translating to "conch (shankha, shaaNkh)
| potato (alu, aalu)" for its shape, size, and colour. In Hindi,
| it is known as mishrikand (mishriikNd). It is eaten during fast
| (upvaas) in Bihar (India) and is known as kesaur (kesaur). In
| Odia, it is known as (shngkh saaru) shankha saru."
| dunham wrote:
| > can't be sliced that thin.
|
| Lolo in San Francisco slices jicama that thin to use in place
| of a tortilla in tacos:
|
| http://cyneats.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2015/02/Screenshot-201...
| ramphastidae wrote:
| Jicama can absolutely be sliced that thin. It's very similar
| to a turnip or potato.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| If this is an agave, it would be different from the plants that
| you're familiar with since it grows in a different country, no?
|
| Edit: Growing conditions can drastically impact the development
| of a plant, am I wrong?
| simonh wrote:
| According to the article it's not actually the root, that's
| just a story the vendors tell, it's the stem.
| Galaxity wrote:
| I think it could be the trunk of the agave. I just looked at
| pictures of agaves and some have short palm like trunks that
| the leaves come off of at the top instead of being right on
| the ground like you usually see with the aloe and agave type
| succulents.
|
| The trunk looks about the same size as the photos of the food
| object.
|
| The agave sisalana wiki article shows it:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisal
| sltkr wrote:
| Yes, all of that was in the article that you apparently
| didn't read:
|
| > In 2010, after a long anatomical study, they performed
| DNA barcoding on a slice of the snack and found it to match
| that of agave's by 89 percent. There are several species of
| agave, but the lab test narrowed it down to Agave Sisalana,
| a plant sometimes used to make a tequila-like drink. They
| did a field visit soon after and plucked out a Sisalana
| only to find mesh-like, shallow roots. Next, they chopped
| off its leaves and there it was: the fat, white, watery
| trunk familiar to millions of Indians from food carts. They
| ate a slice from it, and it was tasteless and crunchy just
| like Ram Kand.
| PhasmaFelis wrote:
| Well, that's the theory. They're still not certain it's
| actually agave.
| mekoka wrote:
| _In 2010, after a long anatomical study, they performed DNA
| barcoding on a slice of the snack and found it to match that of
| agave's by 89 percent [narrowed] down to Agave Sisalana. [...]
| Next, they chopped off its leaves and there it was: the fat,
| white, watery trunk familiar to millions of Indians from food
| carts. They ate a slice from it, and it was tasteless and
| crunchy just like Ram Kand. The findings were published
| inCurrent Science the following year._
|
| When I look at the Jicama plant it doesn't even remotely look
| like an Agave. It certainly doesn't seem to me that DNA
| barcoding would yield an 89% match with Agave Sisalana.
| darkerside wrote:
| The source code for two applications might match 89% and
| yield completely different results
| mekoka wrote:
| I'm not sure that I get the point of your analogy.
|
| To be clear, I'm saying that genetic match supersedes any
| list of superficial attributes to determine identity. If
| it's established that X and Y are an 89% DNA match, even
| though X tastes and looks like Z, the fact that Y and Z
| belong in distant genetic branches should be enough to
| dismiss X as a possible Z.
| darkerside wrote:
| My point is that being an 89% match doesn't necessarily
| mean very much.
| fieldcny wrote:
| Humans and chimps share 98% of their DNA, We also share
| like 84% with pigs.
|
| 89% doesn't really seem like a case closed kind of stat.
| ekster wrote:
| It's so cool how even when teams of scientists have failed
| there is a random commenter on HN with the answer.
| IshKebab wrote:
| With a _guess_.
| burlesona wrote:
| Pretty sure the parent poster forgot to tag their comment
| /s
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| "This looks like a giant variety of Jicama"... A giant variety
| that has heretofor been unknown to the world? Hacker News, we
| cracked the case!
|
| _Edit_ I feel like I should explain the snark. The comment I
| 'm replying to is coming from a classic flaw in human
| reasoning. "This looks kinda like this other thing I'm familiar
| with. So clearly it must be some variety of that!" Then it's
| couched in some authoritative sounding words so folks nod
| sagely and say "yes, that must be it" and press the upvote
| button. The fact that the commenter is hypothesizing a
| heretofor-unknown giant variety of a major world food crop is,
| well, sometimes sarcasm is the appropriate response.
|
| Meanwhile, the actual article tells us a lot more about the
| thing including a bunch of evidence for why folks think it's a
| variety of agave. Along with some mysteries, yes! But none
| saying "oh maybe this is actually jicama".
|
| Also if you're going to go with "this reminds me of this other
| vegetable" it might be useful to have a bit more breadth of
| understanding of the world's food staples. There are more than
| quite a few stachy tubers, roots, and stems like this. Cassava,
| taro, about six different things all called "yam" in English,
| potato, turnip, radish. There are many, many cultivated plants
| like this. The distinguishing characteristic of this one is its
| huge size. Something that jicama doesn't have.
| esquivalience wrote:
| Respectfully, you inferred the conclusion "So clearly it must
| be some variety of that!". GF doesn't say that, they merely
| say it may be like that and that the explanation given in the
| article doesn't agree with their experience.
| mekoka wrote:
| Respectfully, GF quite explicitly also dismissed the claim
| that it is agave.
|
| Meanwhile the article states that there is established
| scientific evidence that _it is_ (probably the Sesalana
| species), in the form of an 89% DNA match, but more likely
| the trunk part of the plant rather than the root (as
| initially claimed by vendors).
| [deleted]
| p4bl0 wrote:
| I can't access this website on mobile. All I can see is a cookie
| banner that tries to force me to accept all cookies at once with
| a big unique "accept" button. There is an almost hidden link to a
| cookie policy page which itself has a small link to revoke
| consent which... does not work.
|
| Seriously why would a website do that?
|
| Is there a copy of the content I could read somewhere else that
| respect their readers?
| 4wsn wrote:
| Just install uBlock Origin and disable JavaScript by default.
| There's no other practical way to actually use the web on a
| mobile device these days.
|
| For what it's worth it was a great and very entertaining
| article.
| Markoff wrote:
| ublock on mobile? good luck installing extensions, since your
| only options are buggy slow Firefox or just days ago released
| updated Kiwi Browser
| SrslyJosh wrote:
| Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler would be proud.
| rachmizard wrote:
| Heloooo bro!
| 867-5309 wrote:
| I know the name, but what's the reference?
|
| edit: ah wait, is it the thin slices?
| thechao wrote:
| Terry Pratchett.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| > Wikipedia identified the scientific name of the plant as Maerua
| oblongifolia, but had no photos of it.
|
| How about this photo?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maerua_oblongifolia#/media/Fil...
|
| In this Wikipedia article
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maerua_oblongifolia
|
| Maerua oblongifolia (syn. Maerua arenaria, Niebhuria arenaria) is
| a low woody bushy under-shrub sometimes scandent to 2-3 meters
| high, with a thick root stock and thick leaves, and strongly
| scented flowers, occurring in India, Pakistan, Africa and Saudi
| Arabia. In Telugu this plant is called by name Bhoochakra gadda
| (In Telangana) and Bhoochakra dumpa (In Andhra). In Tamil this
| plant is called by name Poomicchakkarai Kizhangu (puumic crkkraik
| killlngku). This is a tuber that naturally grows in areas closer
| to fountains, especially in hills. Tribes and others collect the
| tubers, which are sold as a quick street food, in many Indian
| cities and towns.
| grenoire wrote:
| There is literally a Doubt section there, the page isn't well-
| cited on the food bit.
| wombatmobile wrote:
| What do you make of this?
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlwOrdciEX8
|
| and this
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7sn42heQ2w
|
| Have you ever been to the Champavat region of Uttarakhand?
| stinos wrote:
| Interesting; don't speak the language but the first video
| showa a plant, and then a root/stem, without a link bewteen
| the two (i.e. harvesting). And the second shows just the
| stem. So still could go both ways?
| atombender wrote:
| The first video shows the leaves of some kind of shrub,
| with no evidence to link it to the thick, fleshy stem to
| that plant.
|
| The second video shows a food market selling the snack and
| displaying a web page printout about _Maerua oblongifolia_.
| Also not evidence.
|
| Clearly you did not read the article. The food vendors
| claim it is _Maerua oblongifolia_. The whole point is that
| it cannot possibly be, as _Maerua_ does not have fleshy,
| edible roots or trunks, and DNA testing points to a
| different botanical family.
|
| Wikipedia is not a credible source here.
| daxfohl wrote:
| > "We are professors, busy between teaching and administrative
| work, so we rely on existing literature to come to conclusions"
|
| Is this really what academia is like?
| arduinomancer wrote:
| Read it in context
|
| They're talking about a guy who wrote an encyclopedia,
| obviously he's going to rely on sources and not personally go
| and visit every plant
|
| An encyclopedia is a summary
| beowulfey wrote:
| As someone in academia... no. But I can't speak for everyone
| and I am sure it varies by field.
| stinos wrote:
| Depends, mainly because 'academia' is far too broad of a term.
| For starters not all professors teach the same amount of hours
| (don't know all rules across all universities but there might
| very well be professors who do not teach at all but instead
| have PhD students do it, or post-docs). Professors which have
| anough funding can hire people for administrative work; though
| they'd still have to take care of getting funding usually whih
| is also a huge time sink. In some fields professors actually do
| practical work themselves, or are very close to it. Not all
| fields can realy on the same amount of literature-only studies.
| In some fields with novel research there might not even be
| literature to use. And so on.
| momirlan wrote:
| I was struck by the same comment. Forgot to add that they get
| tenure by volume of papers, which exacerbates this farce.
| mPReDiToR wrote:
| In the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov this exact meme is
| lampooned.
|
| A character describes how they went to the library, read all
| the old books, wrote a paper and called it new research.
|
| Dr Asimov may have seen the bleak future of academia, what with
| it being his other trade.
|
| Mayhap we need more Dr Indiana Jones types with tenure?
| andi999 wrote:
| Indiana Jones wouldn't get tenure, yes he found the ark of
| the covenant, but what did he find afterwards (which was
| delivered to the gov/museum?)
| mcphage wrote:
| The Cross of Coronado
| rossdavidh wrote:
| Yes.
| jsilence wrote:
| Usually the professors have a bunch of PhD students working on
| topics the prof specializes in. So yes and no.
| amznbyebyebye wrote:
| It almost sounds similar to thennai kuruthu.. heart of coconut
| palm..
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