[HN Gopher] What solitary confinement taught me about surviving ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What solitary confinement taught me about surviving isolation
       (2020)
        
       Author : dsr12
       Score  : 86 points
       Date   : 2021-03-26 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (humanparts.medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (humanparts.medium.com)
        
       | BeefySwain wrote:
       | How is 4 CONSECUTIVE years of solitary isolation not "cruel and
       | unusual"? I'm not asking rhetorically, or to start some kind of
       | debate or discussion about the state of incarceration in the US.
       | I am literally asking on what legal basis those who have fought
       | such things (I assume that they have) have lost those cases.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | I agree, though it's not even near the upper end. Federal
         | SuperMAX includes the possibility of lifetime solitary.
         | 
         | Or individually shitty state prisons. 43 years of consecutive
         | solitary in Louisiana: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/albert-
         | woodfox-free-louisiana-usa...
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | It's not "unusual" if they're doing it to huge numbers of
         | inmates? Sorry, that's a bit cynical. But if somebody can take
         | a serious look at pretty much any aspect of the american
         | criminal justice system and not come away cynical and jaded, I
         | want whatever drugs they're taking.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | A quick DDG search turned up a long list of SCOTUS decisions
         | related to this, which might be interesting:
         | https://solitarywatch.org/resources/u-s-supreme-court-cases/
        
         | momento wrote:
         | It's honestly unconscionable.
        
           | kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote:
           | Nah there are definitely people who deserve it. If everyone
           | really wants to get rid of the death penalty at least keep
           | this. People like child rapists, mass shooters, etc all
           | deserve lifetime solitary confinement.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | freeone3000 wrote:
             | No. Nobody deserves this.
        
               | postalrat wrote:
               | Should they be given the option of death? Or be provided
               | a confined but comfortable place to live?
        
             | the_snooze wrote:
             | There are indeed people who should be kept safely away from
             | the public. But what you're supporting is just pointless
             | cruelty.
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | I understand the impulse, some crimes are so horrific it
             | gets your blood up, but for me it's not about them, it's
             | about us. I don't want to live in a vengeful, vindictive or
             | cruel society and I don't want anyone doing those things on
             | my behalf. I'm a pragmatist, some killings are essentially
             | unavoidable, as in war. Violence needs to be an option, but
             | I don't think it should be used unnecessarily or to satisfy
             | base urges. Not in my name anyway. These people should
             | serve the sentence they were given according to due
             | process, and this does not seem to be consistent with the
             | intended penalty.
             | 
             | On a personal note an acquaintance of mine served several
             | years for a sentence for which he was later fully
             | exonerated. It was a thoroughly awful travesty of justice.
             | He also underwent appalling abuses as the alleged crime for
             | which he was convicted was sexual in nature. No system is
             | perfect and there will probably always be mistakes made, so
             | lets at least make sure the consequences of such mistakes
             | don't burden our consciences any more than they need to.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | There is worse. Take a solitary cell meant for one. Then put
         | two people in it. This is normal in many US facilities. Same
         | 24/7 lockdown but at least it isn't "solitary". In truth, it is
         | worse.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pje wrote:
         | Solitary confinement for longer than fifteen days _is literally
         | torture_ as defined by the U.N.
        
           | mod wrote:
           | I got a lot of torture during quarantine. And... by choice,
           | pretty frequently.
           | 
           | Using that definition muddies the definition a lot.
           | 
           | 4 years is definitely cruel and unusual imo. 15 days is
           | whatever.
           | 
           | I just think they should have soft things and light etc in
           | their cell if we're going to continue using that. A
           | comfortable place.
        
       | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
       | The author, Shaka Senghor, is slightly famous and has been
       | involved with e.g. the MIT Media Lab, so for some background on
       | his original trial, imprisonment and release that the linked
       | article doesn't provide, refer to his Wikipedia article [0].
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_Senghor
        
         | Udik wrote:
         | It's a great story of redemption.
         | 
         | But I can't help noticing that a convicted murderer can redeem
         | himself and be honoured with prestigious appointments; while
         | vague allegations of remote and relatively minor misbehaviour
         | are considered enough to demand someone's removal from any
         | prominent position. Isn't that absurd?
        
           | xenadu02 wrote:
           | You don't see a difference between the state removing your
           | literal freedom vs not being allowed to be on a committee or
           | a board?
           | 
           | It seems like any reasonable person should understand that,
           | making such arguments deliberately disingenuous.
           | 
           | I would also note that redemption requires real reflection,
           | penance, and so forth. Paying some kind of price. Crying that
           | you're being unfairly persecuted isn't the same thing.
           | 
           | I think the discussion you want to have might belong to
           | different posts than this one.
        
             | pc86 wrote:
             | > _You don 't see a difference between the state removing
             | your literal freedom vs not being allowed to be on a
             | committee or a board?_
             | 
             | This is an interesting question and comparison, but not at
             | all the one to which you're replying.
        
           | MikeTheGreat wrote:
           | I think the key difference is the journey of redemption that
           | the murderer went through. What we admire is the person's
           | ability to change who they are, to literally reinvent
           | themselves, not at a superficial / public level but at the
           | deep level of them making substantially different decisions
           | day to day.
           | 
           | Going from "Yeah, I'll kill someone" to "I recognize why I
           | did that wrong thing and have taken effective steps to never
           | do that again" is pretty huge.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | " _Eschew flamebait. Don 't introduce flamewar topics unless
           | you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated
           | controversies and generic tangents._"
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
           | 
           | The generic tangent thing is particularly important [1]. The
           | hottest few sensational topics are like black holes that suck
           | in every passing spaceship [2]. This turns every discussion
           | the same, when what we actually want are diffs [3]. Curiosity
           | withers under repetition [4].
           | 
           | [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&
           | sor...
           | 
           | [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&
           | que...
           | 
           | [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false
           | &so...
           | 
           | [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false
           | &so...
        
           | rubatuga wrote:
           | Pretty ironic indeed
        
       | mssundaram wrote:
       | > _4. Journal The greatest gift I gave to myself while in
       | solitary confinement was the gift of journaling. I poured my
       | heart and soul into my notepads. I wrote about all the
       | experiences, life choices, and traumas that led me to prison. I
       | was lovingly honest with myself. I talked about all the things I
       | had stuffed deep down inside, and it was the most liberating
       | experience I had_
       | 
       | There is a Hindu practice that is similar called Vasana Daha
       | Tantra. "Vasana" meaning imprints, "Daha" to burn, and "Tantra"
       | meaning method - i.e. "the method to burn away imprints". The
       | method is the same as the author has outlined above, except that
       | when you're done you "burn the papers in an inauspicious fire".
       | 
       | I have personally found the act of burning the papers very
       | liberating, because much of cathartic writing I would never want
       | anyone else to see - somethings just need to be written without
       | any discrimination or self censoring, and knowing that it will be
       | burned really aids to release it all.
       | 
       | There are more dimensions to this practice however I'm sure even
       | from a secular perspective it would be helpful, as Shaka
       | explains.
        
         | narrator wrote:
         | Once, I was on a long hike far away from the trailhead. My
         | phone battery died, and there was no one around, so I needed
         | something to occupy my mind for several hours. One thing I came
         | up with was trying to remember as much as I could about the
         | previous years of my life. It's really a great way to entertain
         | oneself with no external input.
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | His biography is titled "Writing my Wrongs". That's a really
       | terrific title for his story.
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | > _Read the rest of this story with a free account_
       | 
       | Are people writing on Medium aware of this?
        
         | tonystubblebine wrote:
         | For anyone seeing this, I tried to help Medium solve this
         | coming from the other direction, which is to make it an over
         | the top good value for HN readers to not only log in but also
         | pay for the $5 subscription.
         | 
         | That's really what Medium aspires to be--a place worthy of a
         | five dollar subscription.
         | 
         | Many people here probably end up on Medium repeatedly via
         | Google search and yeah, the results are mixed. But also, it's
         | worth noting that a lot of those results wouldn't exist at all
         | without Medium paying and encouraging writers and editors.
         | 
         | What I hoped would start to take Medium over the top though was
         | the addition of all of The Pragmatic Programmer books. That was
         | paid for by other tech people who had already subscribed. (And
         | I played a role in bringing them on board).
         | 
         | There's more coming. But overall, this is 100% Medium's
         | direction and belief that a soft paywall is a better business
         | and a bigger win for all parties than free & ad supported. So
         | this paywall isn't going away, and it's really on them to do
         | more to justify it.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | Meanwhile I got "You have 1 free member-only story left this
         | month. Sign up for Medium and get an extra one".
         | 
         | Outside of that, private mode + reader view in Firefox usually
         | does the trick
        
           | mariuolo wrote:
           | https://archive.ph/GODWY
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Small tip regarding Medium, click the padlock in the URL bar,
         | click cookies and remove all that contain medium.com in their
         | name. No more article count limit.
        
           | Stratoscope wrote:
           | Thank you for that tip. I can't tell you how many times I've
           | wanted to clear cookies for a site and done it the roundabout
           | way: go into settings, search for "cookies", remember which
           | of the four matches under "privacy and security" is the one
           | that works (and not the seemingly obvious "clear browsing
           | data"), type in the domain, and go from there.
           | 
           | Your trick of clicking the padlock (which I assume also works
           | on the warning icon for non-HTTPS sites) is so much easier!
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | Awesome tip, thanks!
        
             | ralphc wrote:
             | This bothered me so much I made a bookmark to the cookies
             | setting. This is much better, thanks from me.
        
         | okareaman wrote:
         | Unless they've changed this, Medium is one of those sites that
         | asks you to sign in with Facebook or Google, and then after you
         | give them your email and profile picture (why?) they come back
         | and say you still can't read it. I hate that. I don't have a
         | good feeling about Medium because of this. It's trickery.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | (2020)
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Added above. Thanks!
        
       | jgwil2 wrote:
       | Why do numbers always get removed from titles here? I think _four
       | years_ in solitary gives a significantly different vibe than this
       | editorialized version.
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | It's to remove some linkbaitness of listicles. If you see a
         | case (like this article) where the number is important, you can
         | write to the mods and them sometimes add the number back.
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | You can also edit the title for a couple hours (?) after
           | submitting and type the numbers back in, effectively
           | reverting the auto-removal
        
       | robdachshund wrote:
       | While I disagree with solitary confinement I also disagree with a
       | murderer reinventing himself as some sort of guru and getting a
       | diversity department job at MIT
       | 
       | This man talks about the stigma of being a felon as being unfair
       | when he took someone's life
       | 
       | I would equate his confinement with torture. However I don't
       | think we should reward him for suffering through a punishment he
       | granted himself.
       | 
       | When a person like this gets ted talks and photoshoots I think
       | we've gone too far. The man has used his crime to turn himself
       | into a brand
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | Does anyone happen to know the context and background on the
         | murder? It doesn't seem to have much info on the Wikipedia
         | page. I'd imagine that's pretty important for making a
         | judgement call.
        
           | klibertp wrote:
           | A bit more background in the article referenced on the Wiki:
           | https://www.npr.org/2016/03/16/470567568/once-seduced-by-
           | dru...
           | 
           | Nothing specific about the murder yet, though.
        
         | klibertp wrote:
         | The guy ran from an abusive home when he was 14. He couldn't
         | find shelter and landed on the streets. He turned to drug trade
         | as a way to feed himself. Then, at some point, he was shot 4
         | times. Someone called 911, but the ambulance never arrived. His
         | acquaintance drove him to hospital, where he was treated for
         | two days, then shoved back on the streets. With one bullet
         | still in his body. Then, he decided to get a gun for himself.
         | Then he actually used that gun on someone like him, and the
         | other guy unfortunately died. This could have been
         | manslaughter, but there were drugs involved, and you gotta be
         | tough on drug crimes, so he got 19 years, even though people in
         | your country, in similar cases, routinely leave prison after
         | 5-6 years.
         | 
         | Your society failed him on so many levels, and so many times,
         | that it would be a miracle if he didn't land in prison sooner
         | or later.
         | 
         | Fast forward to today, he served his sentence in full and when
         | he got out, he couldn't rent an apartament or find a job. The
         | punishment was supposed to have ended, but it didn't: he has
         | "criminal record", which makes him - in your society - somehow
         | less than a human being.
         | 
         | He somehow lived through this, got a job, wrote a book, started
         | advocating for better prison conditions, started helping
         | inmates in prisons around him.
         | 
         | And now, there's a robdachshund who wants to deny all the good
         | the guy did, want to have him carry a stigma for the rest of
         | his life, and want to take his livelihood from him.
         | 
         | America - I won't ever understand you. I wouldn't want to be a
         | part of a society of such robdachshunds ever, there's not
         | enough money on the whole planet to convince me otherwise.
        
           | alea_iacta_est wrote:
           | > Your society failed him on so many levels
           | 
           | Society doesn't owe people anything besides freedom, which
           | that guy had, and used it to commit a crime, and paid for it.
           | 
           | > America - I won't ever understand you. I wouldn't want to
           | be a part of a society of such robdachshunds ever, there's
           | not enough money on the whole planet to convince me
           | otherwise.
           | 
           | Guess what, I wouldn't want to be part of a society of self
           | righteous people like you either.
        
             | klibertp wrote:
             | > Society doesn't owe people anything besides freedom
             | 
             | That's one opinion, and it's far from universal even in
             | your country, though it seems to be popular. From the
             | outside perspective, the fact that it seems to be shared by
             | a portion of population this large is deeply mistifying.
             | Edit: I mean, if that's all, then that's a pretty bad deal
             | - a society can tell you to go die in a war, hang you,
             | starve you, make you work to pay for an ever-growing army
             | of officials, and you get out of it just "freedom"?
             | 
             | > and paid for it.
             | 
             | Yes. That's what I said. The OP, though, wants to make him
             | keep paying for it forever. Which is another seemingly
             | popular, yet incredibly disturbing opinion that I can't
             | identify with.
             | 
             | > self righteous people
             | 
             | Thank you, I'll take it as a compliment.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | I don't have to believe he's a guru or think about his job at
         | MIT to recognize that he's had an experience, and a series of
         | reactions to that experience, that are valuable when related
         | through writing.
        
         | laluser wrote:
         | This is such an unfair comment. You're basically saying that
         | once people are out of prison, they should commit to a life of
         | poverty and continued suffering. The whole point of prison is
         | to rehabilitate and make a net-positive contributor to society,
         | which clearly this person has. The man did his time, what else
         | can they do? Also, saying, "getting a diversity department job
         | at MIT" is such a racist thing to say overall.
        
         | wussboy wrote:
         | I hear what you're saying. I'm not super fond of anyone
         | "turning themselves in to a brand", but maybe that's just
         | because I've never been able to do it. But I would like to
         | imagine there's room in this world for people to make mistakes
         | and to redeem themselves.
         | 
         | If this man can never make himself in to more than a criminal,
         | maybe it would be better to just end their life immediately
         | after the crime? A life for a life? If they can bring good out
         | of their evil, should there be a limit to how much good they
         | can bring?
         | 
         | I'm not asking these questions with a specific point in mind,
         | other than to present some additional context.
        
       | tda wrote:
       | Th nytimes had an article about a 13 year old that shot (but not
       | killed) someone, and subsequently spent 18 years in solitary
       | confinement. The article made me so mad I ha to stop reading,
       | truly horrifying this happened.
       | 
       | Edit: sorry for the flame bait. Let me rephrase: this is what you
       | get when people vote tough on crime. Be careful what you vote for
        
         | throwaway0a5e wrote:
         | > And to all republicans, this is what you voted for.
         | 
         | The flame bait is unnecessary and the anti-crime push that this
         | guy was on the receiving end of was very much a bipartisan
         | effort.
        
           | tda wrote:
           | Yes you are right. I put it anyways because votes matter,
           | being angry on the Internet does not. And the tough on crime
           | mentality that lead to this is pushed harder by Republicans
           | than Democrats.
        
         | ralph84 wrote:
         | His stay in solitary began in Florida in 1992. The governor of
         | Florida at the time was a democrat. Maybe you weren't around
         | then, but the democrats of the 90s (Clinton, Biden, etc.) were
         | "tough on crime" types.
        
           | tda wrote:
           | Yes everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves, and
           | certainly many Democrats are also to blame. But the hawks are
           | always Republicans, and I'm sure they set the stage for this
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Please do not take HN threads into partisan flamewar. That way
         | is hell. We're trying to go a different way.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | crb002 wrote:
       | Solitary was better than getting the shit beat out of me when my
       | ex-wife's law partner dropped by the Polk County Iowa jail on 10
       | March 2020 - dropped my name to a drug dealer - and was viciously
       | attacked hours later.
       | 
       | Read lots of great Sci-Fi, both Niven and Game of Thrones. Lots
       | of category theory - for "security" reasons they banned software
       | engineering books.
       | 
       | Iowa is corrupt AF. https://chadbrewbaker.substack.com/p/good-
       | trouble-in-little-...
        
       | superasn wrote:
       | > What I learned in the two years to follow was that I was trying
       | to control something I had no control over, and I suffered as a
       | result. In my third year, I began to journal. I discovered that
       | my thoughts and my actions were the only two things I could
       | control. It was a pivotal moment in my life. I went from being a
       | victim of my circumstances to being a master of my destiny.
       | 
       | Almost every book and teaching mostly comes down to this. Whether
       | is Viktor Frankl or good old CBT. I actually read a very good
       | passage about this in a book called Hapiness Trap
       | 
       | - Choose anything you are aware of: a sight, sound, smell, taste,
       | sensation, thought, feeling, movement, body part, material object
       | --literally anything.
       | 
       | - Focus on that thing and observe it as if you were a curious
       | scientist.
       | 
       | - As you're observing it, notice who's doing the observing.
       | 
       | - That's all there is to it.
       | 
       | - In that moment, when you observe the observing, you are the
       | observing self.
       | 
       | - So the moment you realise what is happening--that you're fusing
       | with stories or believing that you are the documentary--you can
       | instantly step back and observe.
       | 
       | - Then all you need to do is notice that you're observing and in
       | that moment, there is the real you.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Observing sensations, thoughts and even the observer is a
         | common practice in mindfulness meditation. I've only started
         | doing short daily meditations and find it very difficult to do
         | this successfully, and get easily distracted. I found that I'm
         | only able to focus on a single thought at a time, and if that's
         | a distracting one, then I lose the observation part of it.
         | 
         | Any tips from experienced meditators?
        
           | Elof wrote:
           | My only tip is to not be hard on yourself and stick with it.
           | Doing meditation 'right' isn't an end.
        
           | justinpombrio wrote:
           | Two pieces of advice:
           | 
           | - Getting easily distracted is normal. Don't set a goal of
           | never getting distracted: it's unrealistic and
           | counterproductive. I've spent hundreds of hours meditating,
           | and still get distracted (albeit more briefly). Instead, feel
           | good when you notice you're distracted. The goal is to train
           | yourself to notice and return to the sensation sooner, with
           | positive feedback.
           | 
           | - Don't try to block out everything except what you're
           | meditating on. That should be your _main_ focus, but you
           | should let yourself be aware of other things in the
           | background.
           | 
           | The Mind Illuminated has some good practical advice in the
           | early chapters. I can't vouch for the later chapters.
           | https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-
           | Integrati...
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | I've found that focusing on one's breathing tends to help
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | It is interesting how deep introspection and observation
         | usually leads to Buddhist like ideals.
        
           | throw1234651234 wrote:
           | The only issue is that:
           | 
           | "- As you're observing it, notice who's doing the observing.
           | 
           | - That's all there is to it.
           | 
           | - In that moment, when you observe the observing, you are the
           | observing self."
           | 
           | means nothing. What does this mean? Look in the mirror? Focus
           | on your breath? Repeat the thought you just had? None of this
           | leads to any sort of depth that is often claimed.
        
             | jakeva wrote:
             | It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning of
             | something is subjective and that for you it means nothing
             | and lacks depth, while for others it is profound in its
             | depth. In situations like this, I often find it more
             | productive to examine why it seems like others are getting
             | something out of it while I am not. Perhaps this is an
             | opportunity to grow!
        
               | ARandomerDude wrote:
               | > It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning
               | of something is subjective and that for you it means
               | nothing and lacks depth, while for others it is profound
               | in its depth.
               | 
               | That statement is self-refuting because it is objective.
               | Subjectivism can't get off the ground because its
               | fundamental premise is objective.
        
               | loveistheanswer wrote:
               | Consciousness is inherently subjective
        
               | ARandomerDude wrote:
               | Is that an objective statement? In other words, is it
               | true whether someone believes it or not?
        
               | Der_Einzige wrote:
               | There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there
               | are no other truths.
               | 
               | qed.
               | 
               | Epistemological monism easily resolves the "socratic
               | paradox" and it looks like that's how Socrates himself
               | resolves it.
               | 
               | "although I do not suppose that either of us knows
               | anything really beautiful and good, I am better off than
               | he is - for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I
               | neither know nor think that I know" - Socrates, in Platos
               | Apology
        
               | ARandomerDude wrote:
               | > There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there
               | are no other truths.
               | 
               | > qed.
               | 
               | This is a contradiction. QED means you just proved
               | something to be true. If there is a single truth (that
               | there is only one truth) then there can be no deductive
               | reasoning, science, etc.
               | 
               | You must have objective truth and reasoning in order to
               | say anything other than "I feel..."
        
               | npsimons wrote:
               | > Perhaps this is an opportunity to grow!
               | 
               | Empathy is a _vastly_ underrated (and underdeveloped)
               | skill.
        
             | throwanem wrote:
             | > What does this mean?
             | 
             | This is one of those questions that can't be usefully
             | answered without reference to the experience it's asking
             | about. I can say from my own experience that what's being
             | described isn't nonsense, but I can't put words around it
             | that make sense as an explanation of how I know. Nor can
             | anyone else, as far as I can tell, and I've seen many try.
             | 
             | The method described here seems fine as far as it goes, but
             | it's kind of like learning to ride a bike, or maybe how to
             | juggle. There are clear steps you can follow, but they only
             | take you up to the point where a moment of novel insight is
             | required to grasp the skill, and only that moment of novel
             | insight will take you any further. Once you've had it, you
             | never forget it, but there's a step in there that no one
             | else can take you through - you have to find it for
             | yourself or not at all.
             | 
             | It's not fair, but that's just how it is as far as I can
             | tell. I wish I could do better, and I'm sorry that I can't.
        
             | loveistheanswer wrote:
             | It's meditation; detachment from being completely possesed
             | by your train of thoughts. There is plenty of scientific
             | evidence that shows meditation can have psychological and
             | physiological benefits for many people
        
             | omginternets wrote:
             | Surely you understand how you can observe your own
             | behavior, including observation ... right?
        
             | jcims wrote:
             | I don't know if I do what is being described here, but if I
             | were to try to create a computing analogy it would be
             | spinning up a low priority thread that is just sampling
             | what is going on in my mind and how I'm processing the
             | observations that I make and the sensory inputs that I'm
             | experiencing. These samples are just stored away somewhere
             | that I'm able to somewhat recall later.
             | 
             | It's kind of similar to that state of mind you have when
             | you're boiling water, you get involved with some other
             | activity but there's somehow an increased sensitivity to
             | the rather subtle sound of a bubbling pot.
             | 
             | If you try to think too much about the observations real-
             | time, you interrupt the primary thought process that you
             | were trying to observe. So it's kind of a passive process
             | that you can then reason about later.
             | 
             | I think it's just something you have to try to do until you
             | start to get results, it's so subtle and personal that I
             | think it's going to be difficult for anyone to truly give
             | prescriptive instruction that results in success.
        
             | lhorie wrote:
             | Generally it means being aware of your physicality in a
             | larger context. For example, maybe you're getting outraged
             | by something you just read online, and it can help put
             | things into perspective when you realize that you're a
             | person sitting in front of a computer tapping on a
             | keyboard.
        
             | saltcured wrote:
             | I can appreciate this perspective but, like others have
             | said, it is probably useful to add a "for me" and "for
             | others" qualifier to these observations and see that there
             | is no universally true statement for all people.
             | 
             | I have considered "meditative" to be a part of my character
             | for nearly my whole life, while it is self-taught/self-
             | discovered and idiosyncratic. I would read some popular
             | accounts of meditation and hear parts which resonated and
             | parts that just didn't seem to translate.
             | 
             | I already am aware of my breathing. I discovered "square
             | breathing" for myself as a child for pain and stress
             | management and got lots of breath-awareness through
             | swimming. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of
             | breathing, but I realize it must be possible from the
             | accounts of others.
             | 
             | I am self-reflective and aware of my thoughts and emotional
             | responses. I had difficult aspects to my childhood and had
             | to learn to modulate my responses and predict the
             | unpredictable to deal with volatile personalities in my
             | surroundings. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of my
             | thoughts or emotions.
             | 
             | In recent years, I've struggled with stress management and
             | found myself stating things very similar to your final
             | line. I hear people telling me to do these beginner-level
             | meditation steps and I simultaneously feel, "I am already
             | doing this," "it is not working," and sometimes "your
             | advice is not actionable!" while feeling very frustrated. I
             | might blurt out any of those statements if I get past
             | feeling it is pointless to continue the interaction. On
             | reflection, I think it may be impossible to know which is
             | more true of the apparent contradictions. Am I not doing it
             | even though I think I am? Is it working even though I don't
             | think so? Is it really meaningless advice or I am just
             | being petulant?
             | 
             | These guides and advice are written for a target audience.
             | They are not really wrong if they do not work for some of
             | us, as we may not be the audience. What is frustrating is
             | that it can feel impossible to find alternative guidance if
             | you have an atypical starting state. What is alternative
             | advice about "being present" for someone who is stuck in
             | hyper-vigilance due to stress/trauma? What is alternative
             | advice about "recognizing your thoughts" for someone who is
             | stuck ruminating and meta-ruminating? Etc.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Have you tried guided meditations? Those were essential
               | for me to get started. I think it's Tara Brach that has
               | some on her website. Maybe 5-10 minutes and having the
               | voice cues helps keep me on track.
               | 
               | Don't beat yourself up if your mind starts wandering.
               | When you realize you're off track, just refocus on your
               | breathing, seeing the things around you. What do you
               | hear, what do you smell, can you feel the pressure where
               | your body meets the floor, the bed, or chair? Your mind
               | will wander off every couple seconds at first, just don't
               | even worry about it and bring your focus back onto the
               | sensations your body is feeling.
               | 
               | If you start to feel restless, think about what
               | sensations you are feeling. Don't try to calm down. Focus
               | on regular breathing, feel that your heart rate is
               | elevated, feel out where the tension is located in your
               | body. Is it in your neck, your chest? See if you can
               | gentle relax those muscles.
               | 
               | Theres no right way to meditate and there's no wrong way.
               | If you're worried that you're not doing it right, bring
               | your attention back to the physical sensations and your 5
               | senses.
               | 
               | Sorry if it's not helpful. I think you were the one
               | looking for a more concrete guide and this is what works
               | for me.
        
           | Der_Einzige wrote:
           | When I do deep introspection, I feel much more connected to
           | the kinds of ideas espoused by Jainists (complete non
           | violence, aestheticism, recognition of inherent subjectivity
           | and indeterminacy of the universe) rather than the Buddhist
           | analogs (e.g. 4 novel truths or 8 fold path)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-03-26 23:02 UTC)