Post B63V5eSOdKLLZ5pIdk by Goopadrew@infosec.exchange
(DIR) More posts by Goopadrew@infosec.exchange
(DIR) Post #B635UZ7Z0niPRmIkSm by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T09:11:16Z
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Allen Turing was a visionary. Super-perceptive computer scientists and it annoys me to no end that what he's most famous for outside of computer science is the "Turing Test."He gave one of the first and most succinct accounts of how a computer should work and they still work that way to this very hour as I type. Talk about Turing Machines more and Turing Tests less.
(DIR) Post #B635elDmsUDVs64duK by thejessiekirk@ohai.social
2026-05-07T09:13:03Z
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@futurebird And make Turing-complete computers out of cardboard for fun. 🤓
(DIR) Post #B635zKWJLbcJ8lXwIK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T09:16:44Z
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@ireneista One thing I like about Turing is most of what he speculates about works like a recipe. There is never any part of it that's so vague that you can't really try it.
(DIR) Post #B637PDreodONyuRQZs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T09:32:40Z
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@ireneista The problem with developing a "test for conciseness" is we do not have a definition for what it is that would allow such a test to work with other people who we can presume to be conscious (if conciseness can be well defined) I think we should retreat to simpler questions. Here is one:Is it possible for pain and suffering to exist without conciseness?
(DIR) Post #B637lNfR381SktI4Ho by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T09:36:43Z
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@ireneista All of this handwringing about conciseness is ultimately about morality. Should you feel bad about crushing a bug? How bad should you feel? Destroying beautiful things, destroying complex things, especially complex things that you don't understand strikes me as significant. It's why you feel something when you see a mandala erased from the sand. It's why that erasure is incorporated into the tradition. Sweeping the floor is not the same if there is a mandala.
(DIR) Post #B638hhmCRTztv0GWrA by Kierkegaanks@beige.party
2026-05-07T09:47:12Z
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@futurebird ww2 code breaking, and as a victim of state repression before the inspiration of the voight kampff test, surely?
(DIR) Post #B639Q77fZBxJGoU328 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T09:55:16Z
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@ireneista Given how English spelling "works" both of these words could be pronounced to be either one as far as I'm concerned. concisenessconsciousnessWhat a nightmare and thanks.
(DIR) Post #B639V38do8YKMRI920 by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2026-05-07T09:55:57Z
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@futurebird Not from personal experience, but I've been told that Jewish mothers certainly do express pain and suffering, and concision is not what they're known for in their expression of these feelings... @ireneista
(DIR) Post #B639kHX4Zb0JLZyzAm by raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie
2026-05-07T09:57:59Z
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@ireneista @futurebird The Turing Test (not a real test) was never serious.Alan Turing died in 1954. Chess, thought originally to need AI, didn't. He wrote one of the first.The Eliza Chatbot was developed 1964 to 1967. 13 yrs?The main limitation was that the data could not easily be extended. It "passed" the Touring test for some naïve users. The Doctor version is in Linux emacs. Run it, hit escape, type x and then type doctor.The current LLMs have huge datasets, so seem more realistic.
(DIR) Post #B639y890H79aHgKOPo by RogerBW@discordian.social
2026-05-07T10:01:21Z
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@futurebird @ireneista One answer is to use "concision" for the first meaning.
(DIR) Post #B63A8Dj6NKOQUd1XxA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T10:03:15Z
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@raymaccarthy @ireneista Human minds are not made of text and characters. Heck some people can't even deal with text. Look at me over here struggling to put my thoughts into the limited structure of words. I'm going to cry about conciseness vs. consciousness they just look so similar.
(DIR) Post #B63B3V3mbNsUl50hgu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T10:13:35Z
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@ireneista @raymaccarthy It makes me really sad when people "fall for it" that is when people interact with an LLM and call it "creative" or "perceptive" ... the training data were full of the creative and perceptive concepts and sentences of real people and this is just some of that mashed together.
(DIR) Post #B63B4VPulCQ89fqFnM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T10:13:48Z
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@ireneista @raymaccarthy It's like when a student does a problem and gets the right answer, but only by making multiple logical errors that cancel each other out.This I mark as incorrect since they don't understand how to solve the problem or use the tools correctly. Even if the answer is right.
(DIR) Post #B63Bp5gQFtclxBmDTs by Arapalla@aus.social
2026-05-07T10:22:08Z
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@futurebird I always thought the Turing test was a cricket match somewhere in germany.Shows how little I know. 🤷
(DIR) Post #B63CDB2hyrZ7Wegazw by dckim@mastodon.social
2026-05-07T10:26:30Z
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@futurebird we could also defer to the reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing
(DIR) Post #B63CW5IVZ6aND35lL6 by jsoriano@mastodon.online
2026-05-07T10:25:58Z
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@ireneista this reminds me to this sci-fi novel, from 1880, L'Eve Future, about the purpose of creating an idealized copy of a woman, that is a love interest of the protagonist.This novel explores the ideas of what could be technically needed to imitate a person. And this is used to create an idealized and complacent copy, much as AIs are designed today.@futurebird
(DIR) Post #B63CW6hMMC3hYPj7iK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-07T10:28:50Z
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@jsoriano @ireneista Creating a copy of a person "for" a particular purpose or audience will lead to different results depending on the audience. This is the fundamental problem with ignoring how the simulation of the mind works and focusing only on the output. I know understanding how the brain and body works is hard, but I don't think we can just avoid it or find a shortcut if we really care about doing more than just fooling the target audience.
(DIR) Post #B63DiGo4hTTuKkEPXk by ColinHaynes@mastodon.scot
2026-05-07T10:43:18Z
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@futurebird I think in the UK he's equally, if not more well known for his work at Bletchley Park on Enigma. Perhaps in part (relatively) recently due to The Imitation Game film.
(DIR) Post #B63G3Pl2ob6c5J1Yh6 by woe2you@beige.party
2026-05-07T11:09:33Z
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@futurebird Thing that annoys me is when people say passing the Turing test = consciousness. After he thought about it for 5 minutes he specified that all it meant was being able to fool a human, and that's not special. Patterns on a piece of toast can do that.
(DIR) Post #B63IKUplOZC8evVKwC by SomeVeganCheeseIsOk@mastodon.social
2026-05-07T11:35:03Z
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@futurebird @ireneista oh yes. Pain is just a damage signal tied to specific, rather urgent "get away from the damage" incentives. Consciousness, as far as I can tell from my kindergarten level understanding, is probably a sort of mental reflection function?
(DIR) Post #B63KtmAn7WZETmI4Cu by gmsizemore@mastodon.social
2026-05-07T12:03:50Z
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@futurebird Well...he did just about single-handedly win WWII...
(DIR) Post #B63QLwYSc98AYac0uW by swggrkllr3rd@mastodon.world
2026-05-07T13:04:55Z
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@futurebird Before WW2 started, polish cryptographs started the work on cracking enigma, and constructed the "Electro-Mechanical Bomber". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FkXGs_siA
(DIR) Post #B63V5eSOdKLLZ5pIdk by Goopadrew@infosec.exchange
2026-05-07T13:58:04Z
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@futurebird @rebeccawatson Skepchick posted a video yesterday containing a good explanation on how the Turing test is misinterpreted, and doesn't indicate anything meaningful about consciousness. I guess Turing decided his efforts and experience were much more suited to other questions less rooted in philosophyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02pBnDkV0rQ
(DIR) Post #B63Wwyyt9ijsWO1CxE by BoysenberryCider@mastodon.social
2026-05-07T14:18:53Z
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@futurebird@sauropods.winTuring tests might be talked about because the STIs that run AI companies use mid century sci-fi as their opiate of the masses/techno-babble of choice, but a lot of non-computer types are aware of Alan Turing due to his work cracking the enigma code.
(DIR) Post #B63X31961L80yLfdmy by rootschange@federate.social
2026-05-07T14:19:59Z
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@futurebird Alan Turing also made the Internet gay!https://www.rootschangemedia.com/the-internet-is-gay-alan-turing/
(DIR) Post #B63Y2Ezn8pCbakVoIq by Thebratdragon@mastodon.scot
2026-05-07T14:31:03Z
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@futurebird or just his codebreaking, not the fact that he and Tommy Flowers effectively created the world we live in.
(DIR) Post #B63ft9uHUXZOpt7BUu by TeflonTrout@beige.party
2026-05-07T15:59:02Z
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@futurebird @raymaccarthy @ireneista Relatable, numbers do very similar things to me
(DIR) Post #B63iA91yCYTAwywFXM by LordCaramac@discordian.social
2026-05-07T16:24:28Z
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@futurebird Turing showed how anything that can be computed using discrete mathematics can be computed by a very simple machine that does nothing but store 0s and 1s on a storage medium and reads them from it, moves the read/write mechanism back and forth stepwise, and can perform different operations depending on whether the number stored at the current storage position is 0 or 1. Just the sheer simplicity of it is amazing.
(DIR) Post #B63jKbzrSfRddXVVXE by Psychonaut@mastodon.online
2026-05-07T16:37:35Z
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@futurebird In the UK (well in England and Wales technically) he's on our highest value banknote
(DIR) Post #B63jNblQmcQ5meBbrk by PeteKirkham@mastodon.scot
2026-05-07T16:38:10Z
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@futurebird Or Turing patterns, for example https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.152302199
(DIR) Post #B648ws12qgjNB3Otii by mvilain@sfba.social
2026-05-07T21:24:39Z
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@futurebird I wonder if the Great Orange One would pass the Turing Test. He keeps saying he's passing cognative tests.I wonder if a licensed MD would attest to that in court, knowing they'd loose their license and be charged with perjury for lying under oath.
(DIR) Post #B64Eo6P8aAzavBs7pg by teixi@mastodon.social
2026-05-07T22:30:17Z
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@futurebird @ireneista Yet full reading still has its effervescence »This should begin with definitions of the meaning of the terms "machine" and "think."…Instead of trying to produce a programme to simulate the adult mind, whynot rather try to produce one which simulates the child's?«https://www.lia.disi.unibo.it/corsi/2005-2006/SID-LS-CE/downloads/turing-article.pdf
(DIR) Post #B64Qu7dq5vphwhNyCm by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2026-05-08T00:45:52Z
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@futurebird unpopular opinion? Turing machines aren't actually the best notation for this.
(DIR) Post #B64R0d8xsrBbNw31Ae by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-08T00:47:04Z
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@va2lam What is better?
(DIR) Post #B64R5FKXqeNwyffIvY by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2026-05-08T00:47:53Z
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@futurebird for instance reasoning about decidability via lambda term rewriting.
(DIR) Post #B64RHjlaVrukqgGpXM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-05-08T00:50:10Z
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@va2lam But how do I make lambda term rewriting with electric currents and magnetic tape? :(
(DIR) Post #B64RUukmyTiqgnBEDg by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2026-05-08T00:52:25Z
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@futurebird hmm that's difficult. The Turing Machine does have the advantage of being something physically imaginable (though I don't have an infinite amount of tape personally) but is not as good for reasoning about.