Post B4Unl7TMbuiEGo5aWu by futurebird@sauropods.win
(DIR) More posts by futurebird@sauropods.win
(DIR) Post #B4UggOVf8lC1yyxqAS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:00:59Z
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When you talk about people you make them important. I want to think more about who I choose to make important. Even if you are criticizing someone, burying their bad ideas with logic and all the knives of science you're still making them and their ideas important. You can expect me to talk about Iain M. Banks more and the questions I have about his work. It's why it's probably is a good idea to do a critical review of Newitz and their "Terraformers" which I also have questions about.
(DIR) Post #B4Ugl10jw3zKYBhhJY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:01:50Z
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I'm sick of criticizing people I don't like, you know. Let's argue about cool people instead.
(DIR) Post #B4UhTU3vHhhBOROfXk by davidnjoku@mastodon.world
2026-03-21T21:09:49Z
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@futurebird I've never read Iain M Banks. Where should I start?
(DIR) Post #B4UhrvEFvn9CbCsoU4 by DavidBridger@writing.exchange
2026-03-21T21:14:14Z
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@futurebird Iain Banks is my favourite author, and one of my favourite people. Sadly missed.
(DIR) Post #B4UhsYqYdJxTTI6S6C by PizzaDemon@mastodon.online
2026-03-21T21:14:14Z
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@futurebird two authors about which I've heard great things and stopped after about 50 pages of each. Similar reasons: Banks- just seemed like the world was too big with too many nooks and crannies Newitz - too far in the future. When the tech and semiotics seem way out there, I check out.
(DIR) Post #B4UhtIuNNSLSKSF9RA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:14:15Z
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@davidnjoku He did two kinds of books: the sci-fi which is very fun and the moral complexity is buried and his "fiction" which is some of the most disturbing stuff I've ever read and he just presents you with one problem after another until you say "that's enough" or that is what I said. (yes I'm talking about "wasp factory")So, if you like sci fi grab anything from "The Culture" series. Although my favorite book isn't from that series, it's a sci fi called "The Algebraist."
(DIR) Post #B4UhvociQquXGrBFZI by grumpydad@infosec.exchange
2026-03-21T21:12:22Z
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@davidnjoku @futurebird Excession is a good place
(DIR) Post #B4UhvpGQ3EfbFzkxSC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:14:57Z
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@grumpydad @davidnjoku Excession is very ... abstract. I like that about it, but it's on one extreme I think.
(DIR) Post #B4UhwfiZ1q53wLKAXg by JoBlakely@mastodon.social
2026-03-21T21:14:55Z
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@futurebird I only read one of his books Consider Phlebas, hoping to get into that series, but I didn’t really like it enough to want more and I can’t remember a single thing about it.
(DIR) Post #B4Ui1Htn0wzpVymAkK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:15:58Z
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@PizzaDemon I think the parallels go deeper with these two in many ways.
(DIR) Post #B4UiM6HTPAR7YzmIl6 by MostlyTato@mstdn.social
2026-03-21T21:19:41Z
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@futurebird @davidnjoku Have you also read To Sleep in a Sea of Stars? Similar themes but very character orientated and surprisingly well written. One of the few reads that I couldn't put down and enjoyed to the end.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Sleep_in_a_Sea_of_Stars
(DIR) Post #B4UiOWLZSkqEz8qgyG by eclectech@things.uk
2026-03-21T21:10:48Z
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@futurebird Ooh, OK. My starter. I think Iain M. Banks wrote slightly better books as Iain Banks, than Iain M. Banks. Controversial I know.He wrote my favourite opening line of a book ever."It was the day my grandmother exploded"
(DIR) Post #B4UiOXLbk6Su5XsEfQ by Nonya_Bidniss@infosec.exchange
2026-03-21T21:13:54Z
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@eclectech @futurebird I loved his books but I only read the ones with the "M." I liked Terraformers although I lean toward more gritty, hard scifi.
(DIR) Post #B4UiOYFyMXYGuMFFWS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:20:06Z
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@Nonya_Bidniss @eclectech Terraformers has a bit of the fever-dream about it. Though, I just got to the bit about the dairy farm and I think Newitz has a sense of humor that is often lost on too many of their readers who either take it all seriously and think it's so cool... or so awful. But the idea of a sentient cow having to be patient with a person who is fretting and feeling bad that the cow saw a dairy farm is objectively funny.
(DIR) Post #B4UiSlFdzTN2Mv6AkK by justmichelle@beige.party
2026-03-21T21:20:53Z
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@futurebird I'm listening to The Terraformers for the second time right now. I find it fascinating.
(DIR) Post #B4UiYjutriDdy1FLQ8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:22:01Z
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@justmichelle It's taken me TWO YEARS to get through the audio book. I have a love hate relationship with it.
(DIR) Post #B4Uig7DpcBu6H4cPsO by Mikal@sfba.social
2026-03-21T21:21:40Z
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@grumpydad @davidnjoku @futurebird Having recently gone through every book of The Culture series, if you're going to read those I would recommend starting with Consider Phlebas and following it with the second one, the name of which I don't recall at the moment. He doesn't do sequels or anything, but between those first two you get a pretty thorough understanding of the contours of what The Culture is, its habitats, customs, technology, and so on.
(DIR) Post #B4Uig89c9M7nAHeYwS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:23:20Z
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@Mikal @grumpydad @davidnjoku I agree with this advice. Excession is the one I've read three times and kind of my favorite, but I worry it could be confusing as a starting point. It's a favorite, but only because of the other books in some ways?
(DIR) Post #B4UijiKc6EpcEgVTuK by justmichelle@beige.party
2026-03-21T21:23:58Z
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@futurebird I like some of the foley a lot.
(DIR) Post #B4UillcOqlWJ0cnylM by Mikal@sfba.social
2026-03-21T21:24:19Z
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@futurebird Did he ever write any horror? Some of the scenes he creates, such as the hell in Surface Detail, are just so hideous and detailed 😬😬😬
(DIR) Post #B4Uimb35dIAmWAgVwe by Nonya_Bidniss@infosec.exchange
2026-03-21T21:24:30Z
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@futurebird @eclectech I think I get what you mean by fever-dream, for some reason I was never quite able to suspend my disbelief with the story so I didn't get absorbed into it. I like books I can imagine could be real in some future or alternate universe, it didn't quite do that. I think a lot of it was the characters, I just didn't imagine them being real.
(DIR) Post #B4Uiu8GMXfGzYZUCy8 by 3janeTA@beige.party
2026-03-21T21:25:47Z
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@futurebird @grumpydad @davidnjoku I found Player of Games the most accessible. First one I read but I think it’s a good entry point even after reading the rest of the Culture books.
(DIR) Post #B4UivbisUp9ZDMWlY8 by mhoye@cosocial.ca
2026-03-21T21:26:07Z
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@futurebird @davidnjoku ... it's not?I thought that a large part of the Big Reveal of that whole thing was that the Dwellers were secretly Minds. Did I misread that?
(DIR) Post #B4UiwQ4vH8UpODE4qu by grumpydad@infosec.exchange
2026-03-21T21:26:18Z
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@futurebird @davidnjoku I agree. But i see it as the entryway to Banks' Culture novels.
(DIR) Post #B4Uj1CrjpLQDrKLF2G by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:27:08Z
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@mhoye @davidnjoku Yes, I think that's where the idea of minds came from later on? But it's not a part of the series formally.
(DIR) Post #B4UjGdzzEHeWM2YqG0 by DenOfEarth@mas.to
2026-03-21T21:29:55Z
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@futurebird @grumpydad @davidnjoku I feel like Wasp Factory was deliberately unsettling to get his foot in the door as an author. It was his first novel and I too was horrified by the unnecessary cruelty.Of his non-scifi books, I really loved The Business, and close second was The Bridge. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either.In the sci-fi realm, Consider Phlebas is good fun, and I think one of his most enjoyable reads was Look to Windward.To each their own of course.
(DIR) Post #B4UjoTm1kj56UIAJm4 by Mikal@sfba.social
2026-03-21T21:36:03Z
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@futurebird @grumpydad @davidnjoku A lot of those books get commingled in my head, so I had to look up Excession and now I'm not sure if I have actually listened to it or not. Reading the plot summary is not ringing a bell. Ha, so either way I guess I should listen to it again. That's how I read sci-fi, as audiobooks mostly when I'm on road trips.
(DIR) Post #B4UkQXgHfol3btd3TM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:42:51Z
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@dylanre It's about nature and making a world but much more focused on interpersonal and interpersonal conflict and stories than ... nature. All though the book I wanted more about the natural environment, how it was dangerous, what it looked liked smelled like etc. Though I don't think that gets to the heart of it. I think that it's a world full of subtile horrors, but it's so cheerful and that's kind of confusing.
(DIR) Post #B4UkfaD8Y8obngAS4e by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:45:35Z
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@flipper I'd love to hear about that. I have my own notion that there is some parallel in "meddling in affairs of less advanced civilization" and the meddling that lead to the worst couple in the history of time itself.
(DIR) Post #B4UlXcg1b6Qz5NRpCK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T21:55:23Z
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@dylanre I keep wondering "is this about gentrification?" I think it has to be. It's kind of an urban planning sci fi storyUrban Planning Fiction. I really should make my husband.
(DIR) Post #B4UluePPK9dP7MeiYK by BenAveling@mastodon.ie
2026-03-21T21:59:33Z
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FWIW, his mainstream fiction shows up under Iain Banks and his science fiction as Iain M. Banks.@futurebird @davidnjoku
(DIR) Post #B4UmO9fy9WdsUNTGnQ by Archergal@wandering.shop
2026-03-21T22:04:53Z
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@futurebird @davidnjoku The Wasp, boy howdy. That's a trip, and not really a pleasant one.
(DIR) Post #B4UnPkz71bogRZkjYm by jbenjamint@mastodon.scot
2026-03-21T22:16:23Z
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@futurebird he came to my English class at school once - he was really good friends from university with my teacher and her husband. Spent the period talking about The Bridge , which had come out shortly before, and his friendship with Terry Pratchett. None of us really knew who he was, and I don't think any of us 13 year olds had read the Wasp Factory. How I wish adult me could have had that hour though!
(DIR) Post #B4Unl7TMbuiEGo5aWu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:20:16Z
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@sarble @davidnjoku OK I'll give the fiction another chance maybe.
(DIR) Post #B4UoSIpaFw73ww4dKC by oisin@mastodon.ie
2026-03-21T22:28:02Z
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@futurebird Why is there so much incest-related material in his work is one of my big questions.
(DIR) Post #B4UoTkU4vaO40IhjIe by cocaine_owlbear@retro.pizza
2026-03-21T22:28:18Z
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@futurebird now, now, I don't need people arguing about me.
(DIR) Post #B4Uogut7YdGu2GhFce by aadmaa2@mathstodon.xyz
2026-03-21T22:30:41Z
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@futurebird @Nonya_Bidniss @eclectech also pretty hilarious robot sex scene if memory serves
(DIR) Post #B4Uos9SdiTEaPyfRc8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:32:44Z
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@flipper I think you are on to something with the knowing other minds stuff. However, there is something mixed in Genar-Hofoen's infidelity? betrayal? He's aware as it's happing that it might be a bad idea. A bad idea that'd inspire him nearly getting murdered? Dajeil isn't exactly innocent, but we don't get to know as much about what she's feeling. Just guilt, anger? what? I found that kind of frustrating.
(DIR) Post #B4Up75AvvrHfTDVNZo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:35:27Z
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@flipper It's hard for me to imagine someone who grows up in "the culture" who ends up with that depth of feeling for betrayal. I do know people who are like her, but they are like that because of how women are treated as disposable if we fall outside of certain lines. And "un wed mother" might as well be dead, many people think. That's not natural, that is trauma.But the book did imply that both Genar-Hofoen and Dajeil were ... rare. My conclusion was ...
(DIR) Post #B4UpBXxMrm1NtMHxOC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:36:16Z
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@flipper What kind of clueless mind would leave those two alone together?still thinking about this
(DIR) Post #B4UpbkMhM1EfuCd7L6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:40:59Z
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@Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku I thought it was written before the culture... because in it he also starts to explore what I call "the allure of masculine brashness" which is a theme he touches on a lot. And in the Algebraist he grapples the least with the complexity of this allure, there isn't any dark side to the dwellers with their fun wars and "ho ho ho" lifestyle. That changes over later books and it's good. It's growth and I like it.
(DIR) Post #B4UpnmR5Ts0TnqQ9ke by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:43:04Z
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@mherbert @eclectech I think about the buried mines most of all. I think that's what it was about... something about violence and how it is transmitted to the next generations.
(DIR) Post #B4UpsaupjwrpWOd7UO by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:44:02Z
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@mherbert @eclectech I couldn't put it down, but I was NOT having a good time.
(DIR) Post #B4UqWiSV7AWuV0VckS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T22:51:18Z
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@flipper There is also a theme of "being trapped with the wrong person" consider how Genar-Hofoen and Ulver Seich hate each other when trapped on a ship, but then are fine when the context is changed.
(DIR) Post #B4UsM6QRrjzVYPcFYe by leonardof@bertha.social
2026-03-21T23:11:40Z
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@futurebird By the way, how's the novel going?
(DIR) Post #B4UsfHyx7h4etju5ui by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T23:15:15Z
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@leonardof Pretty good! I just started working on the parts about the venture capitalist and his nervous assistant again. They host a fundraising contest in woods and I'm very happy with that bit.And the engineer who makes the server farm on the moon makes more sense as a person now. And I know how the ants end up in control of everything on the moon too.
(DIR) Post #B4UssFH8UvkQGfaSEy by leonardof@bertha.social
2026-03-21T23:17:31Z
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@futurebird Good to know! I hope to see it soon!
(DIR) Post #B4Ut0EtXnRahP8McKW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-21T23:18:56Z
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@mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech Grey Area did nothing wrong.
(DIR) Post #B4V15KCsH3WMxZLE8m by Mikal@sfba.social
2026-03-22T00:49:34Z
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@futurebird I really want to read some of Banks' non-Culture series books.I did just listen to The Algebraist and enjoyed it, though it took a while to get into it and it is very similar to the Culture universe. (The story centers around a MacGuffin, a sort of Rosetta Stone to interpret a particularly important but mysterious and problematic list. I'll give you one clue if you haven't read it: Banks actually provides the answer multiple times in the book, though in a very tangential way. You just need to connect certain dots.)
(DIR) Post #B4V1mzPuvlPFDvGMnQ by Mikal@sfba.social
2026-03-22T00:57:28Z
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@futurebird One of the interesting questions the Culture series takes on is "what would we do to keep from being bored if we really had luxury space communism?" In that universe, you can age as fast or slow as you want, or not at all. There is no sickness or hunger. No crime, except when there is, but apparently that's not often. Autonomous robots build everything, though they're chill and if you wanna go out and operate a crane and help build a spaceship or something, you're perfectly welcome to do so. One of the things that they do is a little good old-fashioned imperialism. The majority of that series, in fact, has a common theme of how such an incredibly advanced civilization would, could, or should interact with less advanced ones. Intervene to prevent war or genocide? Let them work it out till they're sufficiently advanced to join the galactic community in another 10,000 years? Maybe a little light touch interventionism, for their own good of course?
(DIR) Post #B4VbKfJxeObn8dGpEW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-22T07:35:42Z
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@undead The level of tech in the culture changes as they advance. I don't recall them ever having a set lifespan?
(DIR) Post #B4Vfgcn48hipTebtmC by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2026-03-22T08:24:30Z
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@futurebird @Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku The Algebraist is also one of my favourites. It was well after a lot of the Culture novels but I saw it as a ‘look what happens if rugged individualism triumphs over cooperation in social structures’ antithesis of the Culture. I recently reread the Hyperion series (just before the author died) and was surprised at how much it was obviously an inspiration for The Algebraist.I always hoped that Banks would write more in the universe of The Algebraist. He threw the galaxy into turmoil at the end and there was a lot of interesting ‘what happens next’ to do. He was a master of the kind of storytelling that made Babylon 5 so great: focusing on stories that affect individuals and showing massive social changes as backdrop through this lens. The Algebraist was an example of this but the same framing would have worked well for others in the same universe.I think he preferred his science fiction to focus on the positive sides of the future rather than as warnings. He complained about tech bros reading The Culture as a libertarian ideal (it absolutely was not) and probably worried that influential people would think the structure of society in The Algebraist was desirable if he wrote more about it.
(DIR) Post #B4Vil75VjfluSq4OAK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-22T08:58:57Z
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@david_chisnall @Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku I'm not a big famous author but I worry about that with my ant stories. There are a lot of things ants do that are very cool for ants but maybe not a great idea for people. This might be a little pompous of me but I find it relatable.
(DIR) Post #B4ViqFnolKAAwLFGNM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-22T08:59:53Z
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@david_chisnall @Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku I always took "The Culture" as a stab at utopia a sincere attempt to make a perfect world then letting it play out to watch the ways it frays on the edges.
(DIR) Post #B4VmA9iZOVIbisyKYq by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2026-03-22T09:37:05Z
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@futurebird @Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku That’s more or less what he said in interviews. There are always situations where there is no perfect outcome and the Culture’s focus on harm minimisation aimed to produce the least-bad outcome. Consider Phlebas is one of the most extreme cases, with a massive war that is the only alternative to prevent a religious hegemony. Player of Games shows an individual’s freedom being eroded for an outcome that will (probably) provide that freedom to billions of people (though, again, with a lot of death along the way). Look to Windward and Excession both explore the fact that no predictive model is perfect and even the best intentions can sometimes lead to disastrous outcomes due to incomplete information. All of them explore the edges of a society that is a utopia for trillions but is still not omniscient or omnipotent and so can’t be prefect for everyone.
(DIR) Post #B4VmbcHVIuXe86PGJE by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2026-03-22T09:42:02Z
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@futurebird @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech No? The entire model for weaker beings coexisting with stronger ones is predicated on the guarantee that the strong will not abuse that power. Once you can’t trust that a Mind will not see or manipulate your private thoughts, all trust in them goes out of the window. The Culture as a civilisation would not be possible without that trust. Grey Area would have undermined the entire basis of the civilisation if the other Minds had tolerated it.
(DIR) Post #B4Vn1SKkuZ1Uo6FTn6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-22T09:46:44Z
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@david_chisnall @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech But that "the culture" does tolerate it. They just won't center or endorse such actions. But, it's clear that there is awareness of what gray area is doing and no one stops them.
(DIR) Post #B4VnGQbVcnpFmnDxk8 by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2026-03-22T09:49:25Z
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@futurebird @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech It is ostracised and not allowed to use its given name. That’s pretty much the harshest penalty that exists in the Culture.
(DIR) Post #B4VnRkrOeXeNnM3Yy8 by MrPhosphorous@mastodon.world
2026-03-22T09:51:27Z
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@futurebird @david_chisnall @Unlikelylass @mhoye @davidnjoku The State Of The Art might be a good place to start. A collection of short-ish stories and the novella of the same name which makes a connection between The Culture and our world.
(DIR) Post #B4VnSMec8W0L0iMtJw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-22T09:51:35Z
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@david_chisnall @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech I think if a mind went rouge and started IDK... just destroying stuff they would stop it. Put a slap drone on it.(slap mind?)The gray area is bad enough to be shunned but not bad enough to be stopped. Because is giving genocidal men nightmares and violating their privacy a crime worth the effort of preventing? When you have other things to do with your time?
(DIR) Post #B4VneHyLMvt3xuHaAi by Photo55@mastodon.social
2026-03-22T09:53:43Z
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@futurebird @davidnjoku@mastodon.world The Business is a different order of morals and nastiness from Complicity.Espedair Street and Whit again take different angles.The Wasp Factory - not my favourite!
(DIR) Post #B4Vnf4ayabJIlcj73I by teamonkey@mastodon.social
2026-03-22T09:53:46Z
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@futurebird @david_chisnall @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech Most of the Culture books revolve around things that the Culture thoroughly disapproves of yet puts a great deal of effort into enabling.
(DIR) Post #B4VoAiI13bviqywftQ by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2026-03-22T09:59:35Z
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@futurebird @mherbert @kbm0 @eclectech It’s doing those things outside of the Culture. If it tried anywhere near another Mind, they would be able to stop it. If another civilisation decided they disapproved and destroyed the ship, I doubt the Culture would raise more than a token protest.One of the later books refers to the fact it was called Meatfucker as the worst level of penalty someone in The Culture can imagine. In a society that exists to provide everyone with a framework for self actualisation, being denied the right to choose your own identity is a huge penalty. Sleeper Service had the ship equivalent of a slap drone (an escort ship that keeps an eye on it). Greg Area was probably not seen as enough of a threat to warrant it (it’s a small ship, most Orbitals or Rocks would not be threatened by it).
(DIR) Post #B4W4nqj5DrfVZzHzn6 by sovietfish@todon.eu
2026-03-22T13:05:54Z
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@futurebird @Nonya_Bidniss @eclectech Yeah I read Terraformers as having a huuuuge looming shadow of the Shoah, "Humanism Despite X" for every possible value of X, very Jewish Voice for Peace kind of vibe.c.f. this for some reason (extremely not Jewish at all, isn't equinox free association fun?): https://johnksamsonmusic.bandcamp.com/track/postdoc-blues
(DIR) Post #B4XvsmM0OZLQCCgrc8 by guyjantic@infosec.exchange
2026-03-23T10:07:44Z
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@Mikal @futurebird I love Banks, but my god, the horrific violence in books about nonviolence has sometimes made me want to stop reading.
(DIR) Post #B4XvsnGN10Qn113sTA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2026-03-23T10:35:25Z
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@guyjantic @Mikal I think if you want to contemplate nonviolence you end up thinking about violence a great deal. And I give Banks credit for never shying away from the messy questions. But also? yeah. bruh.
(DIR) Post #B4Xyzhmq4epFv8EgXg by swggrkllr3rd@mastodon.world
2026-03-23T11:10:13Z
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@futurebird Okay, here's Anne Bancroft & Mel Brooks. Knock yourself out.
(DIR) Post #B4YQtyPg8rPqSvSSiu by guyjantic@infosec.exchange
2026-03-23T16:22:59Z
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@futurebird @Mikal I still love his books and have huge respect for him as an author and as an evangelist for a better world. There are sections of his books I won't read again, though.
(DIR) Post #B4bhNaqiUvXooO89K4 by carturo222@ohai.social
2026-03-25T06:11:44Z
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@futurebird @Nonya_Bidniss @eclectech My main objection to Terraformers is that the main villains need to have some moments of extremely convenient stupidity for the plot to happen.