Post B2im3EHvLrJTbRVkEC by amerika@annihilation.social
(DIR) More posts by amerika@annihilation.social
(DIR) Post #B2ilPmMdErhzhitxya by abucci@buc.ci
2026-01-27T20:02:52Z
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Perhaps the most (in)famous and illustrious American computer scientist and acknowledged principal pioneer of the discipline now known as artificial intelligence (AI), Professor Marvin Minsky of MIT, once pronounced—a belief he still holds—that ‘‘the brain is merely a meat machine.’’ It is significant that the English language distinguishes between ‘‘flesh’’ on the one hand, and ‘‘meat’’ on the other. The latter is dead and may be eaten, thrown in the garbage, fed to pigs, and so on. Flesh, on the other hand, is living matter and, as such, deserves the respect and dignity for life of which, among others, Albert Schweitzer spoke eloquently. The word ‘‘merely’’ in Minsky’s sentence means essentially ‘‘nothing but,’’ that is, also not deserving unusual respect. His statement is a clear reflection of a profound contempt for life that, as I see it, is shared explicitly by important sectors of the AI community, the artificial intelligentsia, as well as many scientists, engineers, and ordinary people. Daniel C. Dennett, an important American philosopher, once said that we must give up our awe of life if we are to make further progress in AI.From Weizenbaum, Joseph (2007). Social and Political Impact of the Long-term History of Computing#AI #ComputerScience #life #brain #mind
(DIR) Post #B2ilPnsvaH8WQB1GxE by abucci@buc.ci
2026-01-27T20:10:22Z
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What do these people actually mean when they shout that man is a machine? It is, as I’ve suggested, that human beings are ‘‘computable’’ (berechenbar), that they are not distinct from other objects in the world, in any way deserving of special respect or even attention. This then leads, at first gradually and then with exponentially increasing speed, to a view of human beings as mere objects who—no! Not who, that—can be exploited, inducted in killing machines, imprisoned, tortured, killed (providing they are ‘‘enemy combatants’’). It leads to the American military sponsoring programs to produce robot soldiers. What is then left of Norbert Wiener’s vision of the human use of human beings? And does not our world show us with utmost clarity how far we have already come?I want here to emphasize, especially to this audience, that all this is not the fault of the computer. Guilt cannot be attributed to computers. But computers enable fantasies, many of them wonderful, but also those of people whose compulsion to play God overwhelms their ability to fathom the consequences of their attempt to turn their nightmares into reality.#AI #ComputerScience #human #life #TormentNexus #machinic
(DIR) Post #B2im3EHvLrJTbRVkEC by amerika@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T20:22:57.240043Z
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@abucci I call bullshit. We say "the meat of the hand" without intending to eat it, at least outside of Minnesota.
(DIR) Post #B2ipgDRoi4Ti9WQ6kq by abucci@buc.ci
2026-01-27T20:29:01Z
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@amerika@annihilation.social I don't have the foggiest idea what you are saying nor why you chose to say it.
(DIR) Post #B2ipgEWSiHmvUDbKdM by amerika@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:03:36.067669Z
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@abucci Because the argument is bullshit and does not jive with what is known of language. They wanted an easy thesis, and it falls easily too.
(DIR) Post #B2iqVeaxXHdh7MDwFU by HatkeshiatorTND@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:12:54.385249Z
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@amerika @abucci he's right. for most of english's history, flesh has carried connotations of being-living, and meat of being-edible.etymonline.com/word/fleshetymonline.com/word/meatthat doesn't mean that's what they have to mean in all contexts, though. the word "nice" was originally an insult. etymonline.com/word/nice. words change meanings, accrete and shed connotations, and even invert senses in just one or two generations sometimes."meat puppet" is a fairly old half-joking term for biological creatures in these spaces. once, it may have carried profound contempt, but todays users of this jargon are something much worse than evil nihilistic doomplotters: they're cargo cultists. they say "fleshbag" and "meat machine" because they think that's what being smart is.
(DIR) Post #B2iqk5UWKjHYaZ5vyC by amerika@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:15:30.550914Z
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@HatkeshiatorTND @abucci He's wrong. Look further:"Meat-market "place where one looks for sex partners" is from 1896 (meat in various sexual senses of "penis, vagina, body regarded as a sex object, prostitute" are attested from 1590s; Old English for "meat-market" was flæsccyping ('flesh-cheaping')); slang meat wagon "ambulance" is from 1920, American English slang, said to date from World War I (in a literal sense by 1857)."
(DIR) Post #B2ir3BO4dVdaNRBVIm by HatkeshiatorTND@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:18:57.284979Z
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@amerika @abucci attested from 1590s implies they're not much older than 1500 dialectally, maybe 1300 regionally. the english language is nearly a full milennium older than that.
(DIR) Post #B2irU5Y0SMgA5GezMO by amerika@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:23:49.514291Z
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@HatkeshiatorTND @abucci Look up "fleisch" and consider the Germanic origins of English. The two are the same; meat-puppet and similar uses have come about to mean meat as an animating force, muscle and so on. The trivial thesis of the original article was dumb, wrong, and pointlessly emotive.
(DIR) Post #B2is3pjIkCQFS0zIci by HatkeshiatorTND@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:30:16.531564Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@amerika @abucci i did not disagree that etymology is not worth spending so many words in this context. it is magical thinking to say that using one word in place of another clearly demonstrates anything when they may well be synonymous in a lot of idiolects.i'm just saying he's right on the point -- which, again, should have been an aside -- that flesh originally and for quite a while carried living connotations and meat ones of edibility.fleisch went the route it did because mett narrowed horribly in german, to the point where it's only the name of a specific menu item in hochdeutsch as of 2026. horror vacui.
(DIR) Post #B2itlPCKqjZTrNuP3I by amerika@annihilation.social
2026-01-27T21:49:21.833155Z
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@HatkeshiatorTND @abucci ...and the meat/flesh distinction has not been in operation for some time, which trashes the thesis. So much for that writer!Originally "mete" was used in the same sense as "victuals," since food meant meat, but the distinction was not as humanistic as implied.