Post B2d5cv47JXoPH0TmCW by clacke@libranet.de
(DIR) More posts by clacke@libranet.de
(DIR) Post #B2ceSBRDP5Y86VwJM0 by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-24T21:25:35Z
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Should expatriate citizens of your country have the right to vote? #EvanPoll #poll
(DIR) Post #B2ceSCcb0GFNm6GujQ by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2026-01-24T21:29:17Z
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@evan imo you vote in one place based on where your "home" is. I get that this can be complicated in some instances.
(DIR) Post #B2crvuWm8gYzkW2tFI by stinerman@mastodon.social
2026-01-24T21:38:06Z
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@evan yes, but folks like yourself should have a special representative in the House and Senate rather than voting wherever you last were resident.
(DIR) Post #B2crvvDfZCsHtY796W by mpjgregoire@cosocial.ca
2026-01-24T21:42:33Z
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@evan @stinerman Yes. It should be done as in France: there are at present eleven deputies who represent French citizens abroad.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_legislative_constituencies_for_citizens_abroad
(DIR) Post #B2crw2CrabOBZ4n6Js by ristkof@mastodon.social
2026-01-24T22:30:03Z
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@evan no taxation without representation
(DIR) Post #B2crw8HL0sX8Ogvl7w by renata@cosocial.ca
2026-01-24T21:35:13Z
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@evan As a Brazilian citizen, it’s mandatory for me to vote for president every 4 years even though I don’t live there.I lose the right to renew my passport if I don’t. Brazil sees voting as a responsibility not a right - you can go to the polls and void your ballot but you have to show up. I have opinions on the subject after voting as a Canadian citizen for many years.
(DIR) Post #B2crwFiBNTALRyXnRQ by chillicampari@layer8.space
2026-01-24T21:31:27Z
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@evan yes. Until I turn over my US citizenship I am voting.
(DIR) Post #B2csOER9i5S7bavCHQ by arutaz@social.n2.mikronod.se
2026-01-24T21:43:13.994626Z
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@evan if you for example retire in Sweden and want to spend the rest of your days in another country, you will live of your pension money from Sweden. How much money you get (how much is taken from you in taxes etc) is decided by whom is running the country. So yes they should be able to vote because there’s things that directly concerns them
(DIR) Post #B2csOEkeXb34a42lfc by malte@radikal.social
2026-01-24T22:37:32Z
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@evan Yes, but not on local elections if you've been away for a long time. Another but: That there's some balance between the voting rights of expatriate citizens and people living in my country without citizenship (many of whom currently can't vote, but have lived here longer than some expatriate citizens and have a higher stake in what happens to the country).
(DIR) Post #B2csOGET2EUXAp05mS by clacke@libranet.de
2026-01-25T00:04:15Z
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@malte I like that the EU requires local elections to allow EU citizen local residents to vote, and I like that Sweden goes further and allows all local residents of age to vote in local elections.@evan
(DIR) Post #B2cxWfRpfRwHSw50qm by fdrc_ff@www.foxyhole.io
2026-01-24T23:47:34.528Z
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@evan@cosocial.ca are you guys actually implying there are scenarios in which a citizen of a country shouldn’t be allowed to vote for their country?Like, for real? :excuseMe:wtf is citizenship for then?
(DIR) Post #B2cznujgHSTLiAmPwm by clacke@libranet.de
2026-01-25T01:28:37Z
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As a Swede living abroad, I also appreciate that, as I'm still subject to some Swedish regulation, my citizenship still gives me the right to vote in national elections.I just find it a bit funny that I'm voting for representatives of the last Swedish circuit I lived in, and I wish Sweden did it like France and had a separate Swedes abroad circuit. Organizations for Swedes abroad are lobbying for this, but they have been doing it forever without much progress.One more thing about EU rules: EU citizens, citizens of an EU country, vote for EU Parliament representatives of the country they reside, not their country of citizenship. This also makes sense to me.There is some cheating going on where some people double-vote in their country of citizenship and their country of residence, but according to reports, it's too insignificant to matter.@evan @malte
(DIR) Post #B2d0ip1OCOugUkCNMG by clacke@libranet.de
2026-01-25T01:38:58Z
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@malte Citizenship determining national voting privilege has issues, as you bring up. I think those issues should be addressed by correcting citizenship rules, rather than allowing residents to vote in national elections.@evan
(DIR) Post #B2d5csh08W8JujeHtQ by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T01:06:15Z
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@EricLawton "emigrants" is also a good term.
(DIR) Post #B2d5cu0XFNLvzbnOym by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T01:10:14Z
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@EricLawton I think when you are talking from the perspective of the country they left, "immigrant" (in + migrant) is inaccurate. Other terms we use: overseas citizens, citizens abroad.I'm not actually across a sea from my birth country, unless you count the St. Lawrence Seaway, so I don't use that term often.Abroad sounds like it could mean temporarily away, like on a long vacation .
(DIR) Post #B2d5cv47JXoPH0TmCW by clacke@libranet.de
2026-01-25T01:58:30Z
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@evan I agree with @EricLawton -- "expatriate" is an imperial term. I see no confusion of terminology in his comment, quite the opposite.In the context of the poll, "expatriate" was used about emigrants, not immigrants, but the point stands. The clearest term, if a bit long and pedantic, might have been "citizens who are not residents".
(DIR) Post #B2d5cw97IRPCcnpHdI by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T02:23:35Z
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@clacke @EricLawton you should put that in your poll when you write it!
(DIR) Post #B2eudSQYHXjysfUc4G by heluecht@pirati.ca
2026-01-25T14:34:56Z
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I like how Germany does things. Not only can Germans who live abroad vote, European (non-German) citizens can also vote in Germany for local parliaments. They can also vote in the European Parliament elections.I would love it if non-European citizens living in Germany had the same possibility. I also think it would be good if they could vote at state level.
(DIR) Post #B2eudT4FtvV2ro4JxA by brad@1040ste.net
2026-01-25T14:56:24Z
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@heluecht @evan The rules are consistent across the EU with respect to EU citizens' voting in other EU countries for MEP elections; with the added wrinkle that you can vote for a candidate in your country of residence or in your home country, but not both 😊Local and national election rules are much more of a mixed bag although it's common for EU citizens to at least be given local election (county/land/etc.) privileges.
(DIR) Post #B2euheLZuGFX0XAJPc by fabio@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T14:27:03Z
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@evan I’m a Brazilian immigrant* and not only we can but we have to - vote is mandatory in Brazil. I only need to vote in presidential elections though.* expat is a problematic word
(DIR) Post #B2euhfcHBfCUwbzA4u by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T14:30:56Z
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@fabio say "emigrant" then. If you're living outside of Brazil, you're not an immigrant to Brazil.
(DIR) Post #B2euhgtKRkR2tmyIIS by mayintoronto@beige.party
2026-01-25T14:50:34Z
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"? When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
(DIR) Post #B2euhhlZC5ovc0Lbpw by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T15:55:58Z
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@mayintoronto @fabio In Canada, some people who work and live abroad are called "Canadians abroad":https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroadI also like "snowbirds" for the very specific set of people who live abroad only during the winter.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person)
(DIR) Post #B2euhiersU3YNWDm2C by rakoo@blah.rako.space
2026-01-25T17:13:04.501591Z
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@evan @mayintoronto @fabioFrench perspective: "expat" is used for french people who live abroad, sometimes for years, but still feel more french than anything else. Foreign people who live in France might be called expat if they come from a rich country, but immigrant if coming from a poor country. So "expat" really is a marker of being part of the proper, rich, white countries, aka good old racism
(DIR) Post #B2euhlGACn4sRlgaRc by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T14:40:20Z
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@fabio I intentionally chose "expatriate" as an accurate and clear term for describing citizens who live outside their nation of citizenship."Expatriate" and "emigrant" are almost synonyms, but "emigrant" is less well known and suggests the immediate aftermath of leaving.I considered "overseas citizens", "voters abroad", and other terms, but I settled on expatriate because it's clear and accurate.
(DIR) Post #B2euhov2bGYfnPpm4m by mayintoronto@beige.party
2026-01-25T14:58:01Z
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@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place). A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
(DIR) Post #B2euhrMPWTdjMsef0y by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T14:43:32Z
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@fabio I am aware of the concern you expressed.People from richer countries living in poorer countries often have the luxury of defining themselves by their relationship with their home country, so they call themselves "expatriates" and expect others to do so too. People from poorer countries don't have that luxury. They are defined by people in their new home country, so they are called "immigrants". Association with their country of origin is highlighted as a sign of unworthiness.
(DIR) Post #B2euhxhtvUOZ3GkuLQ by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T14:47:29Z
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@fabio in this poll, I am specifically talking about the relationship with the country of origin. We are not talking about how people are viewed and defined in their country of residence. There are other terms, like diaspora, used for this kind of population.So, I'm OK with using "expatriate". It represents an unfair power dynamic in some situations, but not this one.
(DIR) Post #B2eujMAwRGizEF0JY8 by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T17:48:02Z
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@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio there are some other words for French citizens living abroad that are used here in Montreal.
(DIR) Post #B2eukYVO5B35l58ggy by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T15:48:26Z
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@mayintoronto @fabio Great, you should definitely make that poll!
(DIR) Post #B2eukZXYEcNEy59vhg by RuthODay2@chaosfem.tw
2026-01-25T15:06:19Z
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@mayintoronto @evan @fabio I worked in other countries and adopted the expat label, without thinking, frankly just because everyone else was using it. After some reflection I think that calling myself a "guest worker" was more appropriate. So that is whatI started using toward the end. Same idea but a bit less formal than "temporary foreign worker".
(DIR) Post #B2eukZc9xU3nCNJbt2 by mayintoronto@beige.party
2026-01-25T15:54:46Z
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@evan I'm asking you to reconsider your position on the term "expatriate", and to perhaps refrain from using it in this context in the future.I don't care about the poll itself, since I know that editing is not an option. @fabio
(DIR) Post #B2eumM0lVP6PaXfoVk by mayintoronto@beige.party
2026-01-25T15:18:04Z
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@RuthODay2 For context, the Temporary Foreign Worker program here in Canada is a highly problematic one, where workers are brought in with the right to abode tied to your employer and there's no path to permanent residence. UN Special Rapporteur dubbed it: a "Breeding Ground’ for Contemporary Forms of Slaveryhttps://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/un-report-abuse-temporary-foreign-workers-canada-1.7293495I brought it up because Evan and Fabio are also in Canada.@evan @fabio
(DIR) Post #B2eupWmjuBw9s5ctV2 by renata@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T15:08:00Z
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@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants. We’re not expats. Thanks for coming to my talk.
(DIR) Post #B2eupXr1vixnBgdppI by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T16:02:50Z
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio also, as far as I can tell with some quick searching, Brazilian emigrants are in fact called "immigrants" even in Brazil. There's definitely a good research paper in that!
(DIR) Post #B2eupYU1ak9h8csybg by fabio@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T16:15:18Z
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@evan I personally use “immigrant” on purpose since I’m white-presenting and work in tech. It’s an attempt to buck the trend of using this word for a particular kind of immigration (the kind some people don’t want).I emigrated from Brazil because I wanted to and I acknowledge I had the privilege to do it. Many people in my position would call themselves something else.Again, this is not meant to cause drama or unnecessary discussion, it’s a personal position!
(DIR) Post #B2evXRFvp8eXSsDduS by renata@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T16:08:52Z
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@evan @mayintoronto @fabio There’s the word emigrante in Portuguese but I don’t think people use it anymore. A lot of similar words that were used when I was still in school fell into disuse because language is dynamic like that (and that makes me old)It’s usually two very similar words that mean different things, people keep using one of them more than the other, and the less used eventually gets replaced. Fabio can talk about that better than me because he studied communications.
(DIR) Post #B2evXSaWs2itb2rbea by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T16:36:13Z
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio So, when you're in Brazil, how do you talk about brasileiros no externo ? I think it's a pretty big population, about 5m people? That's a big percentage of the total citizenship, around 200m, right? Is it an identity that you embrace, or do you mostly say "I live in Canada" or "I'm Canadian"?
(DIR) Post #B2evXTQziygsDlPVQm by fabio@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T16:53:11Z
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@evan @renata @mayintoronto Also I think people who describe themselves as “Brasileiros no exterior” don’t quite embrace the country they moved to. One could write many academic papers about his sort of thing!
(DIR) Post #B2evXU3dPJbC9bUMeu by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T17:53:24Z
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@fabio @renata @mayintoronto I grew up in the US, where the idea that you would retain any sense of belonging to your country of origin was considered at the very least backwards and ungrateful and sometimes borderline treasonous.Thankfully, I think our world is developing a more complex idea of migrant identity that encompasses both country of origin and country of residence, and maybe others.
(DIR) Post #B2evXUabQjyDnquh2u by clacke@libranet.de
2026-01-25T23:50:16Z
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> in the US, where the idea that you would retain any sense of belonging to your country of origin was considered at the very least backwards and ungrateful@evan Interesting. It has been my impression my whole life that the US is the foremost place in the world where people maintain their heritage for generations, cluster in subcultures and call themselves e.g. Irish-American.In Sweden in the 80s, children of immigrants were expected to assimilate, call themselves Swedish and drop all other ethnic identity.These days, it's more common to embrace multiculturality, a concept that to me comes from the US, and call yourself e.g. "100% Kurdish, 100% Swedish".@mayintoronto @fabio @renata
(DIR) Post #B2evpF5TnyGmw9ostM by evan@cosocial.ca
2026-01-25T15:50:38Z
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio Expatriate is a problem in a context, and I am not using it in that context.
(DIR) Post #B2g42Ja3P8dpQbpCfg by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2026-01-26T12:59:54Z
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@JubalBarca @evan so you should be able to declare your home where you last lived in your origin country and get to vote there only imo.