Post B263Rn7cAr8jafSAYi by john_rando@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by john_rando@poa.st
(DIR) Post #B25e6AyeImpELrr8WO by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-08T23:20:05.042431Z
5 likes, 3 repeats
according to this book SOCOM doctrine is to never support conventional forces. as in, conventional forces can support their missions, but it's a violation of doctrine for SOCOM assets to support a conventional mission. if SOCOM assets are to be used, it has to be a SOCOM missionI don't know if this is *literally* doctrine but the very idea is completely insane
(DIR) Post #B25exPXUtJVErZXYzg by AGARTHA_NOBLE@shortstacksran.ch
2026-01-08T23:29:06.438483Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii What exactly is a SAWCON mission? I don't understand.
(DIR) Post #B25fM9h6wIfWxbptx2 by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-08T23:34:12.256132Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii i would be very surprised if that was actual doctrine
(DIR) Post #B25fwOXZDfA9QheVXM by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-08T23:40:45.155349Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@merchantHelios I wouldn't. the military is full of shit like that, different branches and sub-branches protecting their turf even if it means the mission is not accomplishedthis isn't just a theoretical thing the guy is talking about in the book. the specific case is operation red wings, the famous operation that the SEALs fucked up, "lone survivor" etc. the mission was conceived and planned by a marine battalion but SOCOM absolutely refused to loan air assets to support it unless the marines handed the mission over to them and took a support role instead
(DIR) Post #B25j4f9xc4Cx9WFEVU by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:15:51.839268Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii >the military is full of shit like that, different branches and sub-branches protecting their turf even if it means the mission is not accomplishedno, inter-branch cooporation is the norm, not the exception
(DIR) Post #B25j7tZOUbOAiJgMuu by Gundog@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:02:21.550022Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios I can see it very easily as SOCOM not wanting conventional forces taking their guys and throwing them into conventional fights where their skills are wasted by being more bodies thrown at a problem. Turf protection would come with the territory."We are elite operators operating operationally in non-permissive environments, we WILL NOT be used as cannon fodder which means YOU have to do what WE WANT or we take our ball and go home."
(DIR) Post #B25j7usvbSbmnBpU0G by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:16:25.626784Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gundog @merchantHelios the problem is outside a highly asymmetric, low intensity conflict, SOF is basically useless as anything but specialized support. meanwhile they suck down huge amounts of resources, both in terms of money and manpowerOIF/OEF allowed SOCOM to become this big dominant force but the prospective fights are all near-peer, or else logistical nightmares that no special ops officer is going to have a clue how to approach. so they can't take lead, and if they won't act as support, what are they for?
(DIR) Post #B25jEOZK9VmwankVG4 by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:17:37.254695Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios yeah, that's why the air force has been trying to kill the A-10 for a couple decades now. because they're so thrilled to support army ground operations
(DIR) Post #B25jXaaXghq9NBTHN2 by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:21:05.520342Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii no, it has everything to do with the AF's culture being centered around them having oodles of extra cash lying around to never have to worry about anything being outdated unless they expressly want it to be so. the rest of the branches do not have that luxury. so it's not surprising in the slightest that the AF doesn't want to support a system which was last manufactured over 40 years ago.
(DIR) Post #B25jaRA5C0qT0NS9Ca by Groomschild@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:21:35.739541Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios Who owns more helicopters by this point? Airforce or army
(DIR) Post #B25jknAIEuTk8wUNf6 by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:23:28.612055Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii also, you don't see the AF complain in other areas of inter-branch cooporation, good example being Space-A/MAC Flights
(DIR) Post #B25jnTlaoowuqhDVqa by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:23:57.783103Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios no, it's about the air force not wanting the CAS mission. they're not even trying to field a replacement, because they don't want to do the job. it's not a zoomie zoom fighter jet job, so it's trashbut if the army tried to do the job instead, with fixed wing attack aircraft, the air force would absolutely lose its shit. fortunately for them the army is fucking retarded and doesn't want to do it either
(DIR) Post #B25jsrfnMWliRR4bBI by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:24:56.234581Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii sure man whatever you say
(DIR) Post #B25jxJZHajYO7A9ILg by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:25:44.452801Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@merchantHelios yeah, I'll keep actually knowing what I'm talking about over here
(DIR) Post #B25kA1dRZp68GG9kEi by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:28:02.172344Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii are you in the military or something?
(DIR) Post #B25kG1lnzKp2Puvfuq by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:29:07.248131Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Groomschild @merchantHelios the air force is not very interested in rotor wings. even the marines probably have more despite being a much smaller service
(DIR) Post #B25kOvgE04La8SZ0r2 by merchantHelios@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:30:43.689669Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @Groomschild
(DIR) Post #B25mnBmlyHJIwcK2EK by Gundog@poa.st
2026-01-09T00:54:49.956996Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios In theory what the rangers were for, light infantry that scouts and hits targets of opportunity, but GWOT made them glorified SWAT teams.
(DIR) Post #B25qy42JWUN3ud24ki by ShovelTrouble@pone.social
2026-01-09T01:40:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii Fascinating conversation to read so far.I've heard that WW2 Japan's different military branches had similar kinds of rivalries. They made operations more difficult than they needed to be.
(DIR) Post #B260nilwj5mabp5EYa by wgiwf@poa.st
2026-01-09T03:34:29.813281Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios Maybe the Air Force should just be folded back into the Army.
(DIR) Post #B261qntaEcPzJygo9w by brimshae@poa.st
2026-01-09T03:40:29.164864Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios It's because they're all decades old and metal fatigue is really starting to set in on the frames. I never dealt with them, but this was an issue with them way back when I was in.
(DIR) Post #B261qp1Q2yHQoZMa0m by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T03:46:14.208165Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@brimshae @merchantHelios I know planes don't last forever. but you can't replace an A-10 with a fighter jet, and if the air force claims the CAS mission, it's their job to procure planes that can do it
(DIR) Post #B261xSW87K3T2ptPRQ by EllisDee@wolfgirl.bar
2026-01-09T03:47:27.287305Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @brimshae @merchantHelios idk man the last b-52 that was made is like almost 60 years old
(DIR) Post #B2621TRobFYT5Ymymm by wgiwf@poa.st
2026-01-09T03:48:11.171618Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @merchantHelios I can't help but wonder if the US Army Air Force's experience in Japan has forever colored the strategic calculus. All other branches are supportive to the Army's job to fight the enemy on the ground and take strategic points in conventional doctrines. In the US is this truly the case anymore? Or is it just overly specialized subordinate forces thinking they are equal to the basic primary fighting force that has existed throughout history?
(DIR) Post #B262xZI7222U0Xx5kG by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T03:58:40.851303Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios the air force wants to keep its bombers, so they have been continually refurbished and upgradedthe air force wants to kill the A-10s, so they've been intentionally neglecting them and trying to fly the wings off them. the A-10 wing replacement program started in 2007 and to this day has not been finishedthe fighter fags have been trying to kill off the A-10 practically since it entered service. they will win eventually, and the army will be left with zero effective CAS
(DIR) Post #B263Rn7cAr8jafSAYi by john_rando@poa.st
2026-01-09T04:00:47.504293Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios At this point I wonder why the USAF ever went forward with getting A-10s in the first place.
(DIR) Post #B263RoAqGLJcqxyGEC by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T04:04:07.056801Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@john_rando @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2015/08/19/the-a-1...
(DIR) Post #B266wVgxKOqUN7K71s by brimshae@poa.st
2026-01-09T04:36:42.222957Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @EllisDee @merchantHelios fighter fagsBut you repeat yourself. ''Fighter Attack Guy".
(DIR) Post #B26gLHEDjjq19KQaK8 by professionalbigot69@poa.st
2026-01-09T11:19:57.769631Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios I mean what's stopping the army from cramming shit loads of standoff munitions on their apaches? or the f-35 from doing multi-role including cas?
(DIR) Post #B26owIXKdQ4fYSWyga by brimshae@poa.st
2026-01-09T12:54:42.712147Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@professionalbigot69 @deprecated_ii @EllisDee @merchantHelios Fragility. Neither of those things can take the punishment of an A-10 and still remain in the air.
(DIR) Post #B26owJqrkHIHdKg5lw by professionalbigot69@poa.st
2026-01-09T12:56:17.264675Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@brimshae @deprecated_ii @EllisDee @merchantHelios again, load them with standoffsyou don't need to be in the same grid for effective fire mission these days
(DIR) Post #B26rqyD74xvwvfE0Om by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T13:28:56.482849Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@professionalbigot69 @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios CAS is a mission that requires three things: payload, loiter time, and the ability to fly slowly and preciselyattack helicopters can't carry shit and they can't loiter. air support from helicopters is useful but it's not the same thing as fixed wing CAS, as much as the terms have been muddled these daysfighters can't loiter and they aren't designed to fly slow. a key aspect of CAS is being able to communicate with the pilot, which means keeping them on station and setting up visual signals like smoke. fighters are not designed to do this. CAS isn't just calling in an air strike, and that's all you get from a fighter. by the time it shows up it might drop somewhere totally useless, or it might drop right on your head because ground conditions changedand of course, the 30mm cannon is not obsolete and useless. there is nothing in the inventory carrying a similar weapon. the apache's chain gun is a toy in comparison, and it's not even worth talking about the dinky little cannons fighters have onboard
(DIR) Post #B26sC69WkHRbdtcdgO by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T13:32:45.766079Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@professionalbigot69 @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios mortars, artillery, and the various forms of air support including CAS all exist together and complement each other. one can't replace another. throwing away the A-10 leaves a gaping hole in our combat capabilities but nobody seems to care because it's the army that's getting fucked, like usual
(DIR) Post #B26tmhIQDxnTDhnYkC by deprecated_ii@poa.st
2026-01-09T13:50:34.674576Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios @professionalbigot69 the army probably doesn't care because everything is all SOF all the time nowconventional war is for losers or something
(DIR) Post #B26w7EfI4LYiPaPqzI by professionalbigot69@poa.st
2026-01-09T14:16:42.452694Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @EllisDee @brimshae @merchantHelios i mean i guess
(DIR) Post #B27OduEvpNL5KxSCFU by wgiwf@poa.st
2026-01-09T19:36:21.218374Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@deprecated_ii @Gundog @merchantHelios I have a solution that will piss them off to no end. SOF should be made into brigade or divisional recon companies.