Post B20o7Wl89U5ctYhThw by lonelyowl13@detroitriotcity.com
(DIR) More posts by lonelyowl13@detroitriotcity.com
(DIR) Post #B20jKw32wKzzJyed6G by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T14:25:14.749795Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Fuck people like @cstross@wandering.shop who use the DMCA to censor *attempts to implement ethics in computing via learning*https://wandering.shop/@cstross/115839131096297200
(DIR) Post #B20jjjMhESyXE0fWcK by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T14:29:43.342065Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff Ehh, it's a claim of copyright infringement via proprietary software and SaaSS that could be valid.I'm not going to complain if the DMCA is wielded as a weapon against companies who peddle proprietary software and SaaSS.
(DIR) Post #B20k4qVTsImrSJqWXo by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T14:33:31.398717Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki I am. It's a claim of *illegal learning*.Including from some books that *i've read*
(DIR) Post #B20kQ9qPApRJVknO3k by bonifartius@noauthority.social
2026-01-06T14:37:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff imagine writing science fiction and getting triggered by having the writing ingested by computers.
(DIR) Post #B20kgDyfZdr8xoK3Dk by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T14:40:17.585597Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@jeffcliff LLM's cannot learn - all those can do is copy and corrupt.It's already legal precedent that copying a work without authorization is copyright infringement and it doesn't magically become legal just because you use proprietary software and SaaSS (a LLM) to copy it.
(DIR) Post #B20lv6L8LvhPZdUHvE by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T14:54:09.817499Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki bullshit. they reduce the information in and generalize from it. *that's learning*> It's already legal precedent that copying a work without authorization is copyright infringement and it doesn't magically become legalThen the problem here is that these are proprietary books that prohibit copying. That's inherently abhorrent.
(DIR) Post #B20mbHwnaQcBjiDnBQ by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:01:48.027358Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff >reduce the information fed in and generalize from it. *that's learning*That's like saying a lossy pass filter and then resampling is learning.The proprietary books are proprietary and are thus poisoned - one shouldn't copy the fruit of the poisoned tree - one should find a free book to copy instead, via some method that doesn't include running proprietary software and SaaSS.
(DIR) Post #B20mrDOEIc10Ebe8TA by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:04:41.412155Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki generally yes : :it is learningif your 'lossy pass' is on the level of high level semantic data then yes, that's definitely learning> The proprietary books are proprietary and are thus poisoned - one shouldn't copy the fruit of the poisoned treeI don't think this is appropriate for books : we should learn what they have in them, and then take what is valuable as a species and preserve it. > find a free book to copy insteadWe should *make* free books yes but unfortunately a significant chunk of written works is proprietary and bootstrapping humanity to a better place will require ripping the spines and getting the information out of their pages and putting it in a free format.
(DIR) Post #B20n2OqC459Uw13klk by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:06:42.673873Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff >bootstrapping humanity to a better place >will require ripping the spines and getting the information out of their pages and putting it in a free format.Using proprietary software and SaaSS to put the text into an even more proprietary format is not something that is good for humanity.
(DIR) Post #B20n9DmbZmcYfNdMP2 by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:07:56.782578Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki Againthis isn't about *that particular* lying machine system. Obviously I don't think those lying machines should existit's about the precedent it's setting
(DIR) Post #B20nEdY1D8bA1ROSJc by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:08:55.856082Z
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@jeffcliff LLM's cannot lie, as lying requires intelligence.LLMs are simply more often than not wrong.
(DIR) Post #B20nIAspj4NGHPoffE by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:09:33.851988Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki If you can suggest an acronym for LLM that clarifies this I'm all ears.
(DIR) Post #B20nPP2DVg4eCFeUUK by meso@new.asbestos.cafe
2026-01-06T15:10:51.885300Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Suiseiseki @jeffcliff my heckin random word generator generated random words it's hallucinating and lying guys!!!
(DIR) Post #B20nUB88dMgkWKhOoS by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:11:43.597764Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@meso @Suiseiseki a truly random word generator would be very different from a random convincing lie generator. LLMs approximate the latter more than the former
(DIR) Post #B20nVPIjQsJulCEvsO by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:11:57.225539Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff "Bullshit generators" or more accurate "bullshit copiers" or "autocorrect, iterated" are some suggestions.
(DIR) Post #B20nXrAUnI31lfYV8q by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:12:23.923836Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki "bullshit generator" while more accurate does not also fit within the LLM acronym
(DIR) Post #B20nklBCN3xKxW2MIy by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:14:43.561513Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki Like I'll admit my argument for ripping proprietary books and using their contents is weak against your criticism -- it's one of those things that people probably don't even realize that we have to defend so the arguments in favour of it aren't as present (as they are against not using bullshit machines as more academics dig their talons into making them)alsoi don't think using bullshit generators is inherently a bad thing (if they are #elevenfreedom complaint) https://elevenfreedoms.org/
(DIR) Post #B20nnNSV1O3KG5NSlM by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:15:11.994530Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff Most people have personal experience with so called "autocorrect" deciding to edit a correct word with a wrong one - so they aren't going to assume that it must be correct.
(DIR) Post #B20nrvQSfrywlQaojo by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:16:01.564865Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki I think a lot of people do but I think *that* particular generalization will run you into problems when you have to actually deal with normal people who are likely to just "accept autocorrect as truth"
(DIR) Post #B20nx6Gzlu8tr1dI36 by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:16:57.513681Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff Fine, autocannect-iterated.
(DIR) Post #B20nzjBI5FQn6XDXHs by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:17:26.149701Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki that doesn't have much meaning to meautocan? is that like autocad?
(DIR) Post #B20o7Wl89U5ctYhThw by lonelyowl13@detroitriotcity.com
2026-01-06T15:18:51.092242Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki @jeffcliff Companies who peddle proprietary software and saas are rich. They can negotiate whatever disagreements directly with copyright holders, pay them for using their proprietary data, or pay the lawyer army to defend them in court for the rest of time. Look at what happened between suno and music labels. Meanwhile, every smol research group that creates free ai models gonna be cooked.
(DIR) Post #B20o8lyx2TtgOil6RM by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:19:04.094126Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff "Autocannect?""Sorry, I typed autocorrect, but it decided to automatically edit it to autocannect".
(DIR) Post #B20oAVEEIchD15jJbs by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2026-01-06T15:19:17.186425Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Suiseiseki @jeffcliff isn't this fair use? I think research doesn't even have to fulfill fair use as long as it's not just plagiarism
(DIR) Post #B20oEXfVAb3Zk4PcpM by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:20:04.985574Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@snacks @Suiseiseki This is one of the big questions of our generation: is learning fair use?(or in canadais learning fair dealing?)
(DIR) Post #B20oXTHJiTHVd27t7g by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:23:31.716172Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@snacks @jeffcliff Fair use is very weak and is more of a defense - at most fair use allows copying a sentence or two verbatim for quoting.Plagiarism is defined as rewriting all of the ideas in your own words without copying any of the original text and claiming that you wrote that everything was your ideas.Plagiarism done correctly is not copyright infringement and therefore is not illegal.
(DIR) Post #B20occmBpYWMXA1Y24 by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:24:27.789010Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @snacks Human learning is quite clearly copyright infringement, but human learning is excepted, as the copyright brain damage cannot be taken that far.
(DIR) Post #B20ofb2sipCc2DFTay by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2026-01-06T15:24:54.460278Z
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@jeffcliff @Suiseiseki especially in this case it's a very transformative application of the original material. I wouldn't really call what llms do learning in the traditional sense as they generally won't end up archiving their own styles by "learning" from artists or authors
(DIR) Post #B20okSMoPqzgZBt8wy by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:25:52.834885Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@snacks @Suiseiseki > generally won't end up archiving their own styles by "learning" from artists or authorsThat's exactly what they can do- you can even choose in a gradient descent between styles.
(DIR) Post #B20olawM1h17Rh3W4G by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2026-01-06T15:25:59.771028Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Suiseiseki @jeffcliff fair use also allows for transformative applications. Generating questions based on a story seems very transformative
(DIR) Post #B20omY9rr5sp6gpdp2 by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:26:14.247011Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Dudebro @Suiseiseki @snacks >w long ip coverage IP coverage isn't a thing. You mean copyright terms.https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.en.html
(DIR) Post #B20ooIxZKjoMY6urHk by snacks@netzsphaere.xyz
2026-01-06T15:26:29.282625Z
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@jeffcliff @Suiseiseki just mixing styles is not really what i meant
(DIR) Post #B20orRBnC2SawP3xOC by lonelyowl13@detroitriotcity.com
2026-01-06T15:27:08.862328Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @Suiseiseki @snacks Nothing is fair use, unless you have lawyers to prove that it's fair use. I think nowadays you can just mindlessly hate any party that is trying to achieve something with copyright and be correct 95% of time.
(DIR) Post #B20orSo7B2hzxY04lE by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:27:08.442455Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@snacks @Suiseiseki That's how new styles are created. You can do so *explicitly* and *methodologically* using lying machines
(DIR) Post #B20ow033WucqDG9TYu by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:27:58.133416Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki @snacks >Human learning is quite clearly copyright infringement, but human learning is excepted,They won't "except" human learning when the dust settles from this case.
(DIR) Post #B20ozkbosIHdUGCVxQ by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:28:34.064927Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Dudebro @snacks @jeffcliff Imaginary property does not exist - using that term gives even more credibility to a confusion.Copyright laws can only hand public rights to private interests - it can't every go back according to the USA congress.Yes, the copyright term length is ridiculous - music is not a special case - the ludicrously long term length apply to almost all works.Many patents have been granted, with restrictions very much like a patent saying that only Rhianna could sing in a flat major - but at least those expire after 20 years (too bad patent offices just proceed to grant another invalid patent).
(DIR) Post #B20p8avGG3Rm3FVmLI by nicholas@aklp.club
2026-01-06T15:30:12.237092Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
The problem is that the situation is not::button: Abolish the DMCA:button: Use the DMCA against the bots:button_sweat: DMCA use is already plenty normalized by megacorpos against the plebs. Everyone who 'matters' is perfectly happy with the situation. No amount of principled​ refusal to use the DMCA against megacorps will make it go away. But normalizing plebs using the DMCA against megacorps might actually create an incentive for reform.
(DIR) Post #B20p9AHSnV0FiFAVJA by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:30:20.753740Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Suiseiseki @snacks @Dudebro >music is not a special caseI would argue otherwise: music *is* a special case because of the harms inherent to stymying music with copyright. But that's just me: i treat music as a special case generally, as one of the most important things in the universe
(DIR) Post #B20pWhXtHk3VXh4iyO by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2026-01-06T15:34:34.182181Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Dudebro @snacks @jeffcliff Imaginary property is a psyop to confuse people between copyright laws, patent laws, trademark laws, trade secret laws that is very successful.The GNU article explains it quite well.Corporations still cannot own general ideas on a creative topic (although there have been many general idea patents granted on basic mathematical ideas) - but they do gladly copy a work from the public domain, sanitize it and then ensure it never returns to the public domain.One of the reason why people don't bother to produce works of a general idea is that it's very hard to get people to even realize a work exists even with the internet - as people just keep going for the corpo slop.
(DIR) Post #B20qIXR2BAus5Kg84O by lonelyowl13@detroitriotcity.com
2026-01-06T15:43:15.117488Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @Suiseiseki @snacks @Dudebro Music isn't a special case legally. But it is a special case practically, because music rights holders are incredibly rich and known for their copyright extremism. Attempts to take down ai image generators on copyright ground were all either unsuccessful, or not impactful. We still have free and open weights ai image generators, they are doing great. We barely have any free and open weights music generators. Or, if you prefer to look at something other than AIs. You put someone's drawing with anime woman on your youtube video background, and nothing will happen. If you put some pop song on background, in the best case you will be demonetized, in worst case your video and your channel will be removed.
(DIR) Post #B20qV9NsuX31G1DejI by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2026-01-06T15:45:31.551500Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@lonelyowl13 @Suiseiseki @snacks @Dudebro >n worst case your video and your channel will be removed.i think the worst case is somewhere down by "RIAA SWATs you and shoots your dog" and "RIAA-backed US government overthrows your government and "liberates" your neighbourhood using bunker buster bombs"