Post B1q8JIPFCdUOCQnE92 by datenwolf@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by datenwolf@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #B1q8JFYhn0H5MuCEyW by nico@ipv6.social
2025-12-30T09:38:43Z
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Please educate me. I have been trying out #wayland/#sway the last days and it seems to be a big step backwards from X11. Under X11, I can use .Xresources to setup the look and feel of all apps. In wayland, I do this in every app in a different way. In X11 I have .xinitrc that allows me to start the same services such as ssh-agent, gpg-agent, etc. Under wayland, I have to either use #systemd (which I don't have) or copy & paste into sway config, a per composer setting. What am I missing?
(DIR) Post #B1q8JGgBcfqwqOhjH6 by datenwolf@chaos.social
2025-12-30T09:43:37Z
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@nico You're not missing anything. Wayland was designed by people who had (have?) a very narrow understanding of the problem field at hand. Also they mistook the accumulation of quirks-and-cruft in input handling (which comes with the territory of interfacing with humans) for sedimentation of poor software development.People with a deeper understanding of the problem tried to warn about Wayland being misguided already over 15 years ago. We were dismissed.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JHkpctAAB5sx9c by crandel@fosstodon.org
2025-12-30T12:27:58Z
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@datenwolf @nico I'm using Sway since 2020. I'm glad you were dismissed. Buggy X11 will gone and nobody will care about old garbage.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JIPFCdUOCQnE92 by datenwolf@chaos.social
2025-12-30T12:31:36Z
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@crandel @nico What bugs though? Xorg is one of the most rock solid pieces of software I run on my systems.Plus, input handling on Wayland is fundamentally broken (ask any game engine developer).Also consistent window management is nonexistent (every compositor does its own thing); ask the KiCad developers what that means for their project.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JJ6qaWMqNfC36m by crandel@fosstodon.org
2025-12-30T19:31:29Z
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@datenwolf @nico Screen tearing for example. Also I have 0 issues with input in Sway
(DIR) Post #B1q8JJwFVPU4x5F6EC by datenwolf@chaos.social
2025-12-30T19:48:16Z
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@crandel @nico a) Screen tearing is not an X11 problem. It's an Xorg implementation issue.b) The Wayland way of avoiding screen tearing introduces unavoidable latency; hence latency conscious users – rightfully – revolted resulting in this: https://wayland.app/protocols/tearing-control-v1c) V-Sync based tearing control is misguided anyway; what you actually want is a feedback mechanism giving you microsecond accurate information of delay between frame submission and presentation scanout, to PLL the render loop.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JL6v9DcAaTF8V6 by datenwolf@chaos.social
2025-12-30T19:50:24Z
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@crandel @nico @aeva apologies for dragging you into this convo, but: What's your current state (mentally and development wise) of your project regarding touch input in Wayland?
(DIR) Post #B1q8JLwg2n0zAzSTAm by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:00:03Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico every wayland desktop environment I've tried (kde, gnome, and others) has a hardcoded "touch cancel" event that fires when you press 3 fingers at once even if you have gestures turned off, and as best I can tell there's no central place to fix the problem, every compositor has to be fixed individually. Nobody gave a shit when I filed bugs for it, so I'm planning on having it just trigger a popup that tells the player to go yell at issue trackers for me.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JN1K30KCVgdh3I by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:00:47Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico as you might imagine, pressing three keys on a virtual midi controller at once and getting all of your active touch presses nullified is not a very good quality for a musical instrument to have. complete clown show.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JOJ5GS7uV3xONM by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:01:28Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico I think sway was one of the shells I tried, but I don't remember or really care anymore about wayland at this point.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JOZkGVSDKjkhLU by datenwolf@chaos.social
2025-12-30T09:48:06Z
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@nico Also: Waylands whole design philosophy only kind-of works assuming the display resolutions that were widespread some 15 years ago (Full-HD), where a whole screenful of pixels amounts to about 20MiB of data, which is an okay-ish amount of resource expenditure (not great, not terrible). In Wayland-land every client gets its own full blown region of framebuffer memory. So if you've got – say – 20 maximized windows open, that's ~400MiB of framebuffers. However, …
(DIR) Post #B1q8JOvMy6kePnry3E by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:06:20Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico time spent fighting with a halfassed slapdash perpetually broken operating system is time not spent working on my games
(DIR) Post #B1q8JPUSrcpAAeHzkm by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:10:57Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico now, datenwolf, I hate to say this but while wayland is complete liquid shit, x11 is also kinda shit. it's just that the shit is problems I can live with right now like vsync not working. sometimes the two are both shit together, like weird high dpi inconsistency issues (really those are QT5's fault I think?). linux is just one big kingdom of shit, where the shit lords sling shit at one another for not eating the right shit the right way.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JPzezdmHjOsuNU by crandel@fosstodon.org
2025-12-30T20:16:48Z
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@aeva Looks like you just shit person's if you see shit everywhere. Try to book an appointment with a psychologist.
(DIR) Post #B1q8JQvRWnzycbv3RY by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:18:48Z
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@crandel if you don't hate your computer you're not really using it
(DIR) Post #B1q8JZHiRsZIY0OxGq by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:16:47Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico critically while windows does not have these specific problems, microsoft has smelled the ripe shit and thought wow we gotta get in on this shit action. from what I hear from the apple fandom, they're getting a similar treatment though they're split on whether or not the shit fountain is a good thing. we're all living in that eiffel 65 song "blue ba da bee" but if you replace all instances of the word "blue" with the word "shit"
(DIR) Post #B1q8Jhoyi5vd1U1dE8 by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
2025-12-30T20:17:07Z
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@datenwolf @crandel @nico the only people who seem to be genuinely happy with their computers these days are the haiku os people