Post B1RdpdMB5IMM4QGCqO by athena_rising@beige.party
(DIR) More posts by athena_rising@beige.party
(DIR) Post #B1ROBdkugQ0gPbIlsG by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:13:18Z
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A teacher needs to know their students to be effective. This puts an upper limit on the number of students one teacher can teach at once. Something like 150 students. I need to know their names, and when I see that name a little about who that is. Further, a student should have at least 4 or 5 teachers who know them. This is a selection of hopefully trustworthy and supportive adults they can turn to. Most plans to make school less expensive mess with these numbers.
(DIR) Post #B1ROSBs9bbQurAa2bY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:16:17Z
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The people talking about implementing AI in education are saying things that start out sounding sensible until you think. Most of my students don't need "extra attention" what if the AI could take care of the easy students and I would get the ones who need more nuance?Well first of all detecting who needs "extra" is subtle. How will you do that?Second: what if the majority of my students don't need "extra attention" *because they got real help from supportive teachers previously?*
(DIR) Post #B1ROi8GQmzuAIZXNc8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:19:11Z
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In other words they are still trying to reduce "meaningful human contact hours" to make it as objective as possible. But the "tell" that this isn't a serious proposal? The best schools where the children of the wealthy get their education won't even consider this for a second. We'd stop using paper to save money first, we'd do anything else. This is only be floated for "other people's kids"Young people need the time and attention of adults to grow up and learn. Controversial I know.
(DIR) Post #B1ROsJanWc7qKSv3Sq by flying_saucers@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T13:20:58Z
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@futurebird there are two reasonable applications I’ve seen:1) Automarking of qualitative assignments to save teachers some time, but obviously at the risk that they won’t double check the marking2) “homework assistance” for students to ask about an assignment without getting an answer to the task but rather some Socratic method type questionsNeither of them are foolproof but they seem to get largely positive feedback
(DIR) Post #B1ROzBqSjBmGKPWa1Y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:22:13Z
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As a teacher I have discovered that this is non-negotiable. Kids have an instinct for when they are being abandoned. Being a person who matters means that other people care about you and are willing to spend time on you. I've seen kids who were acting out, totally lost find the thread again because they discovered that someone cared what happened to them. Someone cares what they do. That alone will make you want to do better.
(DIR) Post #B1RP6UrsOr4bLyfbcW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:23:34Z
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@flying_saucers These are probably fine but these things won't make it possible for me to be an effective teacher for 300 students.
(DIR) Post #B1RPSDoaU1o2pqUV0K by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:27:26Z
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@queenofnewyork Exactly. When you abandon the kids who are "doing fine on their own" they stop being kids who are "doing fine" because no one really is fine just ... being ignored.
(DIR) Post #B1RPhpQytk5lqwtJbM by sinvega@mas.to
2025-12-20T13:30:19Z
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@futurebird treating me like a gullible drone who only needs mindless regurgitated nonsense would have been an extremely effective way to permanently change me from an easy student to the most intractible problem in the class
(DIR) Post #B1RPlKjF0CdTmQ6Sgq by beecycling@wandering.shop
2025-12-20T13:30:55Z
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@futurebird My sister is a head teacher, who's had to deal with 'failng' schools in the past, in rough areas. She said it's quickly obvious which kids have serious issues because of abuse and neglect, who need a lot of extra, specialised help, and which ones are mostly acting out because they're starved of attention from parents and teachers. Once they get that attention from teachers who care, rather than ones just trying to make them behave, they start to calm down and blossom.
(DIR) Post #B1RPqSishvIY1ONfHM by sovietfish@todon.eu
2025-12-20T13:31:51Z
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@futurebird I worked in education technology for around 5 years and was very quickly disliiusioned that most of the field (i.e. technological approaches to "improve" education) is really just attempts to reduce labor costs/diminish the power of unions. Outcomes was always going to be secondary to the financials involved, because the field is completely captured by the notion that investment/hiring more teachers/improving working conditions for teachers _can't happen_. Their priors are that education has to be done "more cheaply", forgetting that this is a political assertion of ghouls.
(DIR) Post #B1RQ5oi5F4K0YbKTCq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:34:39Z
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@sovietfish The same race to the bottom over and over in different outfits.
(DIR) Post #B1RQipQKWSRq42cwsK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:41:43Z
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@beecycling Attention isn't a magic bullet for all things, but it's the difference between a "bad school" with a ton of suspensions and bad test scores and chaotic classrooms and a "good school."At the "bad school" the teachers have too many students and have to do triage. And there are more students who aren't getting adult support outside of school. They don't have violin lessons or anything. And they can feel the neglect. So they find ways to get attention. As they should really.
(DIR) Post #B1RQm6ad9iJ4Am0Xc8 by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T13:42:15Z
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@futurebird tbh that 150 number still sounds pretty damn high (at least from my postsecondary perspective)—I had around 100 last semester in four classes, the largest with 32 students, and I was able to get to know *many* of them as individuals, but already that that scale it’s very hard to get to know the quiet ones who don’t stand out in some way
(DIR) Post #B1RQsI1pXWdTO2gAgS by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:43:25Z
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@tkinias There was a time when they tried to give me 180 students in one term and I quit that job. I can't remember that many names.
(DIR) Post #B1RR1oBpKnCRjttUB6 by carrideen@c18.masto.host
2025-12-20T13:45:06Z
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@futurebird This is such a tell. For about half of my 25 years teaching college, I have worked with working class students who get exposed to all these "innovative" pedagogical tools that squeeze them dry and wring them out. At the most elite colleges for the wealthiest students, no one seriously suggests outsourcing mentorship and one-on-one attention and care. If these innovations were so effective, rich people would make them exclusive to themselves!
(DIR) Post #B1RR2R092A1o6xjCsq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:45:11Z
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@tkinias Also 150 is the number of students in all of my classes combined. Basically the number I need to "know" at one time. It includes clubs, and everything I do at the school. In a given class 12-18 students is the ideal number.
(DIR) Post #B1RRNZQKulMGJY3ca8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:49:05Z
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@tkinias I have a study hall for 35 min once a week with 21 students and it's just too many even for something as boring and "simple" as study hall. (it'd be fine if it wasn't 7th graders, 7th grade is the hardest time for students, and they are so annoying, they know they are annoying and they just don't know how to stop and need our help.)It's the WORST part of my week. 21 is pushing it since saying something to each of them pushes my limits, and they do need that.
(DIR) Post #B1RRcL1siO4G0xf1dY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:51:43Z
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@mynameistillian I'm not talking about 150 in one class. I'm talking about all of the classes combined.
(DIR) Post #B1RRouHPTqMCohuvUe by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:54:01Z
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@tkinias There is a notion that "students aren't learning anything in study hall so it's not important"I think for middle school students this is a big mistake. Study hall is the start of learning to manage your own time. Do you get your homework done? It's also learning to be considerate of others. Some of the other teachers think I'm a little crazy for wanting to discuss it so much, but I think we could improve it a lot.
(DIR) Post #B1RRs8K9ijOFF8jwXY by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:54:37Z
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@tkinias And if they aren't "learning anything" in study hall lets get rid of it. I will teach them about ants instead.
(DIR) Post #B1RRxV4OZze7EgvYhs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T13:55:31Z
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@tkinias I'm mostly kidding about that. But, if adults think something is a "throw away" kids can tell and it becomes a throw away.
(DIR) Post #B1RT0GyvW1VaMhFtk8 by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:07:12Z
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@futurebird yeah, I think that’s a good size for most classes at any level (except seminars at upper-undergrad or graduate level)—but 150 still seems like a lot to get to know wellI’d target it at more like 50 to be optimal tbh
(DIR) Post #B1RTSV5UfCa4DpmqwK by adamr@mstdn.science
2025-12-20T14:10:30Z
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@futurebird kids also benefit from having role models. In the case of teachers, the simplest part of being a role model is demonstrating interest in the topic being taught, showing that it has value to real adults and isn't just something forced on kids by 'the system'
(DIR) Post #B1RTfsNDOmKkCrSD9k by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:14:45Z
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@futurebird My experience is that students don't really learn anything in any class.
(DIR) Post #B1RTkaAuUHzZDFwVW4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:15:38Z
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@richpuchalsky If that's how my classes went I'd quit. I could do other jobs that pay more. I teach because I like teaching.
(DIR) Post #B1RTzJYYYcOa0z1md6 by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:18:17Z
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@futurebird (My experience as a student and observer of other students, not as a teacher.) Grades 3-10 do at least teach basic skills, mostly by repetition.
(DIR) Post #B1RU4MORRBHeGFhcoq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:19:11Z
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@tkinias 30-50 is the number out of the 150 who are "my" students, the ones who'd come to me first for whatever reason. They are all nerds. I'm a nerd magnet.
(DIR) Post #B1RU5PE4OIbpKuLlB2 by megmuttonhead@mas.to
2025-12-20T14:19:11Z
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@futurebird @tkinias As a retired Massachusetts high school teacher, from a system where we were banned from ever offering a study hall to our students, I very much agree with you. Also an issue in our small rural school, students could literally run out of courses they had not taken—leading to absurdities like multiple gym classes in the day, or students who hated art class (I know, but they exist) taking and retaking the same class. But at least no study hall! 🫤
(DIR) Post #B1RUHgIIl1APkPBNvU by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:21:37Z
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@futurebird nerd magnet ❤️
(DIR) Post #B1RUNBZ5v8DSBEf6wa by asakiyume@wandering.shop
2025-12-20T14:22:36Z
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@futurebird EXACTLY. This is for the plebs. This is for the masses who, in the minds of those promoting this crap, exist only to serve the rich.
(DIR) Post #B1RUOpsRWiIdUmV0GO by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:00:14Z
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@futurebird I never had a study hall period all through K12—I honestly never understood the point of it? (But that’s maybe because in my schools it seemed to be viewed as a dumping ground for low-performing students who needed to be kept on campus.)
(DIR) Post #B1RUOrBydZWFZee7Lk by geonz@mathstodon.xyz
2025-12-20T14:12:14Z
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@tkinias @futurebird I think that's important: it *can* be a place where they learn to rebel against being "dumped" and babysat.
(DIR) Post #B1RUOsdfG7GE3obk92 by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:20:33Z
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@geonz I attended study hall once in high school, on the first day of classes (because of a scheduling screw-up). It was eye-opening: the teacher was a coach of some kind who was very openly power-tripping (“if you cross me by *God* I will make your life hell” kind of vibe). @futurebird
(DIR) Post #B1RUOtwqOICG7aaZg8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:22:52Z
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@tkinias @geonz How many kids were in there? My old school used to do "doubles" on study hall because "it's easier" No.Oh no no no. 45 9th graders? I can't even say hello to all of them in the time allotted. So you end up having "Serious Rules" because otherwise it's just going to be 30min of chaos that no one needs in their life.
(DIR) Post #B1RUYfOlLD0dtNIugq by geonz@mathstodon.xyz
2025-12-20T14:24:40Z
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@futurebird @tkinias Yes. If I were a ninth grader stuck in there I'd be relieved at that approach.
(DIR) Post #B1RUbKNNxQwpYsvdx2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:25:11Z
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@asakiyume "Your kid doesn't need to go to college or learn about silly things like art and history. That might make them GAY. Isn't it better if they get training on how to work in an amazon warehouse instead?""Well what is YOUR kid doing?""Uh... studying art history and reading poetry ... but never mind that. We will give your child work experience so they can get a job!"
(DIR) Post #B1RUgplyeYEeNu3b7o by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:26:05Z
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@futurebird oh, I don’t recall exactly (this was in the 1980s lol) but it was way larger than a normal class size—so I’d say at least 60, probably more@geonz
(DIR) Post #B1RUo0mO83yWY2fi2y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:27:28Z
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@tkinias @geonz Yeah with that many kids being a fake drill sergeant is kind of the only way.
(DIR) Post #B1RVNRAQ0q1QWUnuNs by tkinias@hcommons.social
2025-12-20T14:33:50Z
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@futurebird Yeah, and I think that was part of what contributed to the pointlessness of it. You didn’t need to be doing any useful work; you just needed to be still and silent for a class period.@geonz
(DIR) Post #B1RVUK8OYf7Sjs8p0q by geonz@mathstodon.xyz
2025-12-20T14:35:05Z
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@futurebird @tkinias ... but maybe with opportunities to learn about ants...
(DIR) Post #B1RVV5WoLhZnjCvU5w by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:27:54Z
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@adamr I have a Masters (in astrophysics), have been tangentially involved in academia throughout a working life, and I am here to tell kids that what they are being taught has no value to adults other than to keep them in line and is forced on them by the system.@futurebird
(DIR) Post #B1RVV6YyV8twwCwj6e by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:35:13Z
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@richpuchalsky @adamr Do you think compulsory education should be abolished?
(DIR) Post #B1RVaudhkKafh7vaSW by asakiyume@wandering.shop
2025-12-20T14:36:17Z
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@futurebird Yeah. Your kid can also be diagnosed and treated by a chatbot; mine, however, will have a fleet of real live human medics. And so on.
(DIR) Post #B1RWB7piAb8P2ToNMG by jztusk@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:42:43Z
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@futurebird Officials: They're only acting that way because they want attention. Me: Well, what if we just give it to them?
(DIR) Post #B1RWIYcsx5nEACM8rw by Ehay2k@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:44:09Z
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@futurebird @tkinias Study hall can also be a place and time for kids who feel overwhelmed at school (or home!) to chill out.
(DIR) Post #B1RWbseOj4pjloHGYC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:47:41Z
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@Ehay2k @tkinias Our upper school students don't have study halls. They do have "free periods" where they must remain on campus ... but that's about it. We can only do this because most of them have learned to manage that time sensibly. Every year someone wants to pack more things in the schedule and I always push back because that free time helps so many of them. The middle school students have study hall since they don't know how to use a free period yet. Poor things.
(DIR) Post #B1RXI9BddSBHDbyo6q by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T14:55:18Z
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@futurebirdi think that there should be a social expectation that young people should learn, and that adults should not be able to prevent children from learning. But as an anarchist of course I think that the state should end, as well as a state mandated system of education.@adamr
(DIR) Post #B1RXQcIXHgdzp2FEFU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T14:56:51Z
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@richpuchalsky @adamr I think powerful people will use that to take advantage of people by keeping their understanding of the world limited and in the absence of state education it will be the church and whoever gives the church the most money indoctrinating everyone.
(DIR) Post #B1RXjJsPzx0KBwwkaW by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:00:08Z
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@futurebird Quite possible! (Anarchists are not really big on the church either.) But communities can build schools and staff them without a church organization, or young people can learn through one-on-one teaching from adults.When looking at bad possible alternatives we have to compare them with what actually exists, not the ideal of what is supposed to exist.
(DIR) Post #B1RYag22MAFoFit8qW by abelbitez@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:09:50Z
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@futurebird Effectiveness in teaching depends on relational capacity. There’s a practical upper bound to how many students a teacher can meaningfully know, names, context, learning patterns. Students also benefit from having multiple trusted adults who know them well. Cost-cutting reforms often overlook these constraints, trading short-term savings for weaker support and outcomes.
(DIR) Post #B1RYmWnwUOhh6qwlQ8 by abelbitez@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:11:59Z
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@futurebird That framing reverses causality. Students often appear “easy” because they’ve already benefited from sustained human support. Outsourcing them to AI risks eroding the very conditions that made them low-need. And the triage step itself is nontrivial: reliably detecting “who needs extra” is subtle, contextual, and dynamic, errors there compound harm.
(DIR) Post #B1RYxDSwjKqsJjDrF2 by abelbitez@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:13:51Z
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@futurebird This aligns with well-established findings in education and developmental psychology. Students are highly sensitive to relational signals; perceived abandonment undermines engagement and behavior, while sustained adult attention strengthens motivation, self-regulation, and persistence. Many cases of acting out correlate with unmet relational needs, and improvement often follows once a student experiences consistent care and accountability from a trusted adult.
(DIR) Post #B1Rb4csUqZ5v4Cpnea by dartigen@aus.social
2025-12-20T15:37:38Z
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@futurebird Also, based on my (admittedly 10+ years old) experiences as a student at schools who kept trying to use technology this way?The technology ultimately costs more than literally just hiring additional teaching staff (or hiring more admin staff so teachers aren't pulling double duty, or fixing school buildings, or literally any of the things that are actually needed).The amount my final high school spent on WiFi-enabled 'smart' whiteboards that were completely useless until my final year (at which point two teachers used them only sporadically and they usually gave up on them within 15-20 minutes bevause they were overly complicated and mostly not necessary) could have paid for 3-4 additional full time teachers. Or a lot of other things that the school actually needed.
(DIR) Post #B1RbWeY2EPPsM2d03U by flying_saucers@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T13:23:21Z
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@futurebird increasing students per teacher based off either of these is full on insane though. Education has a quality problem because of low teacher numbers to begin with 🙈
(DIR) Post #B1RbWfsHIdCeT76gFM by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:23:12Z
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@flying_saucers @futurebird Improving education begins with- more teachersand- better pay....Everything else is a lame excuse.And most of "everything else" is generally a distraction from the main problems.
(DIR) Post #B1RbrYi787XUKbJLhA by dx@social.ridetrans.it
2025-12-20T15:46:26Z
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@futurebird @Ehay2k @tkinias My school didn’t believe in study halls. In middle school we didn’t have any such things, and in high school we had the same four, 88-minute long classes every day for a term and that was it. No free anything. I was always intrigued and mystified by the free periods and study halls in movies and television.
(DIR) Post #B1RbugOJ1wxx1LXGkq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T15:47:06Z
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@richpuchalsky I think it's beneficial to have education connected to larger secular bodies eg. the state because it forces all of the little communities with their "values" (values can be excellent, or horrible) to find some common ground. Should we teach that the earth is flat?Is evolution real?Does *everyone* need to learn how to read?If you let "the local community" decide such things they have often made the wrong call on these questions which have objectively correct answers.
(DIR) Post #B1RbzhgTeNIATlQfku by funnymonkey@freeradical.zone
2025-12-20T15:47:58Z
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@futurebird I've been an edtech spectator (and at times a practitioner) for a very long time - and I was a classroom teacher for over a decade prior to that.And I often wonder: what if the billions of dollars spent on educational technology with zero research base was spent on class size, meals, teacher training, school based health centers -- where would we be?But we'll throw good money after bad because AI has a better marketing budget than kids and teachers.
(DIR) Post #B1Rc7nCj0hlxurN04m by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T15:49:29Z
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@richpuchalsky I don't call myself an anarchist. Or anything really. I suppose I'm not since, from what I've seen as a teacher, people crave, love and seek out organization and someone to tell them what to do. This can be exploited so easily. Often it is exploited. A lot of what I do as a teacher is try to get my students to stop turning to me to tell them what to do about every single thing. And I use their inclination towards obedience to guide them towards that. Kind of a paradox.
(DIR) Post #B1RcEDRMNVxp1VHJ8y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T15:50:38Z
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@richpuchalsky The only way I can see to minimize the exploitation is to have a public ongoing discourse on what we teach and value that is big enough that people don't end up being mislead in some little community where some jerk is in charge.
(DIR) Post #B1RcH4zAGlAtfbSIuO by semitones@tiny.tilde.website
2025-12-20T15:51:04Z
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@futurebird @Ehay2k @tkinias our public high school had a whole-school, open campus lunch that we all used as a free period and it was the best part of the day.You could work on assignments, watch the improv club do improv, socialize with your friends, eat off campus at the Indian buffet, sleep, participate in current events discussion club, whatever you needed. We all tried to eat lunch during class to make the most of our 43 minutes (or was it 37) of free time.You have lunch AND free time?
(DIR) Post #B1RcNdIhbE2bplidjE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T15:52:21Z
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@funnymonkey Meals? Adults with enough time to get to know the students? You want to spend money on that?No. Kids need to learn "workplace ready" skills. And they can eat iPads.
(DIR) Post #B1RcWTIIAnKDPBk3Ae by flyingsaceur@ioc.exchange
2025-12-20T15:53:54Z
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@futurebird as one who lives and dies on the back of the envelope in the real world, that is an amazing number to learnCombined with the human span if control (5-7 direct subordinates) and class size I want to work my way up to the hard limit on school size and even school district size where they become unmanageable… and I’ll bet that most are too big
(DIR) Post #B1RcdOwWkTPhwCrjwe by wtrmt@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:55:08Z
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@futurebird that limit that you mentioned it’s important. I studied in a large private school, with 40 students per classroom, 4 sections per year (A to D). I only got to know and care for 2 teachers, from middle school to highschool. It was horrible, it looked and felt like mental institutions are portrayed on tv. I made sure that my kid didn’t go to a place like that.
(DIR) Post #B1RceAoikngqPtaBRQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T15:55:15Z
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@dalias @JeffGrigg @flying_saucers Phasing out "lame" and "stupid" and other ablest words is a bit of an uphill battle but I think it's worth it.
(DIR) Post #B1Rcfvo7WwyYRb8k8e by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:55:35Z
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@futurebird If that is what the state is supposed to do, then in actuality it's doing very badly at it. Mostly our system is a historical accident from when the state wanted a literate prole class for military and business purposes. When conditions change that will also change.Anarchists aren't opposed to organization. Teachers might form an occupational organization where they mutually agree to teach "the objectively correct answers."
(DIR) Post #B1RcvRt0XoUMHKpEJc by maxthefox@spacey.space
2025-12-20T15:58:25Z
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@futurebird All sorts of social groups work best with up to at most a few dozen people, because that is what our brain evolved to deal with efficiently and things start getting weird with larger groups.
(DIR) Post #B1Rd0reQBASxdOaKEC by shauna@social.coop
2025-12-20T15:59:22Z
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@futurebird Unfortunately "meaningful human contact" is the most important part of education and, arguably, human life in general, and tools to decrease it almost uniformly make things worse. My k-12 education was largely miserable (including the parts where I was put in the corner with educational computer games while the class covered stuff I already knew) but taking away the few bonding experiences I had with teachers would have been devestating.
(DIR) Post #B1Rd6S2qILaVxKfiKW by semitones@tiny.tilde.website
2025-12-20T16:00:22Z
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@futurebird As a camp counselor, I had about 50 kids a week I could try to learn, and I never managed it. I didn't always eve manage to learn all 8 in my cabin, or all 12 in my lesson group. My director had much less time with the kids than I did, but still managed to learn them well.When you were a new teacher, did learning and remembering 150 kids come easy to you? Or did you have to work at it?
(DIR) Post #B1RdB8au2V974wq0gK by annehargreaves@ioc.exchange
2025-12-20T16:01:16Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky Also looking at "home schooling" - this is not inspiring in many cases. Children need some sort of overarching organisation of schooling to (preferably) guard against the worst.
(DIR) Post #B1RdDjMcImNjhGONGa by JeffGrigg@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T15:47:30Z
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@dalias @flying_saucers @futurebird Noted and improved.Alternatives to "lame excuse" here:https://www.powerthesaurus.org/lame_excuse/synonyms
(DIR) Post #B1RdLmjZegF6SxyFpQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T16:03:13Z
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@semitones I had to learn to work with that many students. When I started 40 was my limit. I make flash cards for names at the start of the year. I have a process where I spend a little time each week thinking about each student and I *track* this so I don't miss anyone. I've learned when writing long comments when grading is important... and when to skip it. I keep a spreadsheet with the learning specialists and tutors contact info for each student and send each one regular emails.
(DIR) Post #B1RdV0a7XWYM1HwmVU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T16:04:50Z
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@semitones This makes it all sound very clinical, but as someone who isn't "naturally social" I think I have an advantage because I'm accustomed to looking at these things as more technical problems. I don't expect it to "just happen naturally."
(DIR) Post #B1RdXp9aU8JLRfsYwi by b_cavello@mastodon.publicinterest.town
2025-12-20T16:05:16Z
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@futurebird @tkinias So wise
(DIR) Post #B1RdZh4HWAzYwoHxmS by b_cavello@mastodon.publicinterest.town
2025-12-20T16:05:42Z
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@futurebird @tkinias Oh dang. So real!
(DIR) Post #B1RdcZDJB1ydSLsgYy by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T16:06:15Z
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@annehargreaves @richpuchalsky Homeschooling can be wonderful or horrible. That kind of comes down to who is doing it and how much time they have. It's not a great solution for most people I think. Don't you want some help?
(DIR) Post #B1RdlhomYUGAkTlbYO by Nicovel0@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T16:07:45Z
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@futurebird I’m sure you’ve heard that before, but I’m also certain you don’t hear it anywhere near enough: you are an amazing teacher
(DIR) Post #B1RdnV6Ko7Fpt3pgp6 by pr_ret_lutz@jasette.facil.services
2025-12-20T16:08:09Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky I don't have any meaningful input into this interesting discussion other then posting this vintage ad
(DIR) Post #B1RdpdMB5IMM4QGCqO by athena_rising@beige.party
2025-12-20T16:08:34Z
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@futurebird I teach at a private school with a one-to-one model. One teacher; one student, and I get to see firsthand how individual attention changes students. While we do have students whose parents are wealthy, we are able to contract with local school districts for some students. Some of the saddest events for us are the pullbacks, where the district uses how well the student is doing as a reason to pull them back to the traditional classroom. We are grades 6-12, so if this happens in middle school, they very often return to us, but further traumatized by the experience. If they are in high school, it's more uncommon for them to come back. It can be stressful, but very rewarding. And yes, if you look at my posts, you will see I am wanting to change jobs, but the reasons for that do not have to do with my students.
(DIR) Post #B1RekuLEbkXzFo85sO by semitones@tiny.tilde.website
2025-12-20T16:18:55Z
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@futurebird I did yoga teacher training at a place that I later realized was basically a cult, but one thing they did that I liked was each incoming class had their portrait pictures taken and then the instructors spent time learning people's names and faces.One thing I've done similar as a lifeguard instructor is we had information sheets that we collect from students. And then if we, as instructors, had any notes about any individuals, we would scribble it at the bottom of the sheets.
(DIR) Post #B1Reld6aB4Z65OcWmm by aprilfollies@mastodon.online
2025-12-20T16:18:56Z
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@futurebird @dalias @JeffGrigg @flying_saucers Based on discussions here, I have stopped using “the insanity of…” in favor of “the chaos of…” or “the fecklessness of…”. Same idea; you just have to practice thinking twice about word use.
(DIR) Post #B1RfhiwWdAlWzHcMC0 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T16:29:34Z
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@datarama @richpuchalsky Like many specialists anarchist overestimate the appetite of the general public to think for itself. Even within their own organizations. To think like an anarchist you must treasure a kind of independence and find joy in questioning authority. But a lot of people even me at times really love "authority.""Teachers could organize a body to ... "nooo not more WORK.
(DIR) Post #B1RgJMBlg8BbQ9gyLw by sovietfish@todon.eu
2025-12-20T16:36:22Z
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@futurebird @datarama @richpuchalsky re: "nooooo", 😂 so relatableI think anarchism as an ideology is of course eclipsed in the popular imagination with aesthetic associations people have with it (to whit: crust punks and arson), but also in a more subtler way by association with a certain anti-authoritarian/contrarian personality trait. I think some anarchists are cognizant of people's need to have social connections that have dimensions of authority. The emphasis (in my anarchism, anyway) is more than such relationships should be limited in power differential (so they don't give rise as easily to abuses of power).
(DIR) Post #B1RiLpvyG184A4c5TM by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T16:59:12Z
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@futurebird I think that without the requirements of the state -- such as teaching to the standardized test and grading assignments that no one cares about -- there would actually be less overall work for teachers, not more.@datarama
(DIR) Post #B1RiYP9N9NiWrDsI0u by annehargreaves@ioc.exchange
2025-12-20T17:01:28Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky Sure, it can be good, but some shocking situations are not picked up (UK) as children are not being seen at school & homeschooling is not inspected currently.
(DIR) Post #B1RijOB16sff1Wsici by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T17:03:30Z
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@richpuchalsky @datarama I don't agree. Not having national standards just mean you get a hodge podge of local ones which will on average be less well-thought out. In some cases they will be better, but in many other cases they will be worse. I do agree there is too much testing.But many of the national requirements are they only thing keeping schools from simply cutting out huge portions of the curriculum and hiring even less educated teachers.
(DIR) Post #B1RjqhpgWnP5xzxN5M by flying_saucers@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T17:15:59Z
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@futurebird oh they 100% won’t. They’re just neat additions to hopefully improve teaching quality I suppose. How well they really work we’ll see in a few years I guess
(DIR) Post #B1RkAcTk8wfT9aBmqW by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2025-12-20T17:19:39Z
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@futurebird The question nobody wants to address is, "what is school FOR? what are the purposes and objectives of education, and educational institutions?"The best places to save money are in bureaucratic empire-building which does nothing to serve the students, but you can't get support from the bureaucratic empire-builders to implement such a policy.A private school which charged about enough to keep the lights on saved my life, and spoiled me for other educational settings.
(DIR) Post #B1RmzZS1MNO6RLo4bQ by vicarvernon@mastodon.me.uk
2025-12-20T17:51:11Z
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@futurebird @tkinias my daughter teaches geography in a UK secondary school. She has 308 pupils to get to know in her subject, plus a class of 25 in a tutor group.
(DIR) Post #B1RnZALGByLAzUcKyO by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T17:57:38Z
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@futurebirdIn my case, no "instinct" was necessary. The teachers literally built little rooms for me to cry in so they wouldn't have to deal with me.*Twice.*
(DIR) Post #B1RoTARL0yChVmADTs by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T18:07:46Z
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@futurebird @beecyclingHaving been in a "good school" of the 1:20 teacher:kid ratio, "everybody" behaves variety and *still* been on the wrong end of bullying and faculty mistreatment, I've always found myself skeptical of the whole idea of classroom sizes alone being a silver bullet... but having heard what it's like in other schools, it does sound like reasonable class sizes are a necessary *starting point*.
(DIR) Post #B1RpBHDlAFQpHfqUWu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:15:46Z
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@richpuchalsky @datarama And there are conservatives, religious leaders, charter school grifters and assorted others who have been bouncing up and down excited to dismantle national standards for decades. If we only let them they wouldn't need to even try to teach "those" kids algebra. Think of the pliant employees without other options the schools could turn out for them. Think of all the money they could make running even worse schools.
(DIR) Post #B1RpGJygLGLlHYCMz2 by wauz@mastodon.de
2025-12-20T18:16:38Z
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@futurebirdThere is another thing: schools shouldn't be big. When Gaius Marius reorganized Roman legions, he was pretty near to the optimal choices. A Roman cohort (battalion) was between 400 and 600 men. That's the size, that doesn't exceed human social capacity. You won't know everyone by name, but you will at least know to which company any individual belongs. So never strangers need to cooperate.
(DIR) Post #B1RpQiYPp3aSOrs05g by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T18:18:28Z
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@futurebird Anarchism doesn't envision replacing one component of a horrible society and leaving the rest in place. I agree that it would be impossible to have anarchist schools as long as the rest of the state is there.And once again: the state is not preventing local schools from being bad. What it's doing is presenting a system as standard when it is not, and therefore covering for the schools that are bad.
(DIR) Post #B1Rq7cXK4VEqBloggi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:26:19Z
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@richpuchalsky IDK Rich. The way you come at me in these conversations I feel like I'm holding a gate closed and there are snapping monsters (think ancaps) at the other side, they are trying to get in. I'm trying to keep the gate closed and talking about how we could get a better lock, take turns keeping them out so I could get a little rest. But you walk in and point out that if we didn't have monsters we wouldn't need a gate, and gates are horrible aren't they? Oh I agree! HOWEVER
(DIR) Post #B1RqoRldzDFTF1w77I by jhavok@mstdn.party
2025-12-20T18:34:02Z
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@futurebird 150 students seems awfully high. Is that one class, or divided across a set of classes? The number I've seen most often is that 15 students is optimum class size, that decreasing class size has lower gains, and increasing has clear losses.
(DIR) Post #B1Rqvyfm2l2JK3mWIq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:35:25Z
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@jhavok 150 is the total students in all of the classes that I teach, or my upper limit for doing any kind of effective teaching. You are correct that class size is better around 15.
(DIR) Post #B1RrG8A6TMQmXoZsTw by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T18:39:02Z
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@futurebird @funnymonkeyJust generally, it's... *really* striking how consistently throughout history the wealthy and privileged neglect, resent, or simply fail to notice or understand the concept of peasants needing food.
(DIR) Post #B1RrRY5IQxGc7vm2Hg by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:41:07Z
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@pteryx @funnymonkey Same people will get grouchy if they have to go to a long meeting and there is no coffee or little snacks. But they think about food so little they might not even be able to articulate that is WHY they are grouchy. Because never thinking about food is one of many privileges.
(DIR) Post #B1RrlwEuKs0AplzYki by geonz@mathstodon.xyz
2025-12-20T18:44:46Z
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@futurebird Yes. "it's good for the unwashed."
(DIR) Post #B1Rrp0ERwoWw5NEsPw by clarablackink@writing.exchange
2025-12-20T18:45:19Z
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@futurebird As a kid who eventually was pulled out of school to homeschool myself after my mother gave up on trying...A national, standardized school system was a lovely escape from my smart but extremely difficult parents. I wasn't an exceptional student but I loved having teachers who could calmly prepare me for the general discourse of the world outside my parents' frame of reference.It was nice to have this other world to inhabit.@richpuchalsky @datarama
(DIR) Post #B1RrqUIXeGT5chrRZI by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T18:45:32Z
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@futurebird @jhavokWhen I cited 1:20 in another thread, that was the number of kids in a classroom at a time. I think the full size of each class in the "class of 19XX" sense was about 200ish? It's been a long time, so I can't be sure. Things like it being a wealthy suburb that refused to participate in football so it would have more money for actual education stuck out in my mind more.
(DIR) Post #B1RsEEPAOGP7HWHWG8 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:49:55Z
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@pteryx @jhavok The things I'm talking about re: class size and teacher time per student are not magic. But they are required. Things can get even worse. This doesn't minimize the way that schools with these basics can also fail.
(DIR) Post #B1RsIVoraNPwRxLHbU by Dervishpi@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T18:50:40Z
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@futurebird Avoiding the discussion about anarchism, I think people in general need a certain basic level of education to participate in society. Minimal literacy to be able to navigate and work their tools. Minimal numeracy to understand billing. And some minimal level of understanding of laws and the structures of our society so they know how to interact with others.The things kids learn in grammar school are a foundation to build on, not a goal. I think stronger foundations are good.
(DIR) Post #B1RsUWAC8GYIzZ2p96 by Uair@autistics.life
2025-12-20T18:52:49Z
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@futurebird @pteryx @funnymonkey I live below the poverty line in America and even I never face food insecurity. I'm in a blue state.Hell, when I was flat broke and homeless in Africa, I still managed to eat enough.
(DIR) Post #B1RsZAjxD8HTzrzRrs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-20T18:53:42Z
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@pteryx @funnymonkey "I don't see why parents can't provide them with breakfast..."*takes orange madeleine from plate*"... really if you can't provide your child with breakfast and lunch should you even be a parent?"*bites madeleine, starts to pour some coffee*"These people expect us to do everything for them! Where is the cream? Ugh. Powdered? Disgusting."
(DIR) Post #B1Rsob9XI8maG3JNT6 by rk@mastodon.well.com
2025-12-20T18:56:28Z
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@futurebird @pteryx @funnymonkey There are some political questions that, while controversial, have no inherent ethical position. “I don’t think hungry children should be fed in a place where they have no choice but to be” is not one of them. At some point you have to ask if you’re the baddie…
(DIR) Post #B1Rt2AfAZonI9ha12G by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T18:58:55Z
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@futurebird @funnymonkeyAnd yet at the same time they want to force (the "correct") women to have lots of children, because they want more warm bodies for their financial-chain gang.
(DIR) Post #B1Rt6e9YsIh2mAvhMe by Uair@autistics.life
2025-12-20T18:59:43Z
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@futurebird I have no idea how they calculated the number this precisely, but people who need to know, like in armies or a growing corporation, say 148 is the limit of informal socialization. Any more and you need hierarchies and bureaucracy.
(DIR) Post #B1RtmPPi4AwtDzOeTg by treehugger@sciences.social
2025-12-20T19:07:15Z
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@futurebird yep, this is one of the (many) reasons I left teaching. Not only big class sizes but bad scheduling means students may have four science lessons with one teacher and two with another in a two week period. Even worse in maths I found. How is that supposed to work? My school had very good behavior. And when a teacher retired and I saw bad behaviour with his replacement I wondered how much the good behaviour was just due to low turnover. We knew those teachers were experienced...
(DIR) Post #B1Ru1W7LQM0WMN0iRM by treehugger@sciences.social
2025-12-20T19:10:00Z
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@futurebird ...and they'd been there a long time. They also all taught us for two years from 13 to 14 years old. In high school our teachers had max 90 students at a time for five months. So more time for each student. Some teachers can manage having more but it seems like an unreasonable thing to expect.
(DIR) Post #B1Rvjjbqiq6GtsvYiO by pteryx@dice.camp
2025-12-20T19:29:12Z
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@futurebird @tkiniasStudy hall was a concept I actually appreciated back in the day. Here was a space and period of time to work on the simpler, more rote and straightforward kinds of homework, so it wouldn't cut into my time at home. I did see homework first and foremost as an imposition on my time at home, so providing time for at least a bit of it to happen apart from the time that *should* have been mine was a relief.
(DIR) Post #B1Ry0njMqupmVti3gO by clew@ecoevo.social
2025-12-20T19:54:39Z
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I have a mental dinger that goes off when people describe something as “unprofessional “ when they mean “not as comfortable as the upper middles expect”Even the term “PMC” makes me angry because “professional “ ought to mean something specific: I swore, I _professed_, to uphold standards that the public relies on but cannot judge.Should be the opposite of “the fails-upward class”. Isn’t. Stolen word. @futurebird @pteryx @funnymonkey
(DIR) Post #B1RzqGjyr0OlD16NqC by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T20:15:11Z
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@futurebird I'm not trying to get on your case specifically, but if our system collapsed fewer people would die. There might be more in the US and less outside it, but the overall number would be lower. No matter which party anyone voted for in the last election, they voted for genocide.So the monsters are already inside.
(DIR) Post #B1S0NAku7xGmCdDvVI by sciencebase@mastodon.social
2025-12-20T20:21:08Z
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@futurebird @dalias @JeffGrigg @flying_saucers I managed to get an am drams script changed to remove the word st*pid... My late mother always hated the word for its inappropriateness...it's a horrible word, the writer-director needed telling
(DIR) Post #B1S1pLlasitaPpXvIu by flyingsaceur@ioc.exchange
2025-12-20T20:37:27Z
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@futurebird @funnymonkey their talking points made more sense when I realized they think public schools should fulfill the same role in society as prisons. Cutting school lunches, arming teachers, child labor laws, everything
(DIR) Post #B1S29brMl1o27RuGg4 by jhavok@mstdn.party
2025-12-20T20:41:06Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky @datarama The worst thing about that hodge-podge of local standards is when one becomes defacto national due to market power: Texas controls the US textbook market because the state buys textbooks for every public school, and they are the largest single purchaser of primary school textbooks in the country. So the textbook publishers dumb down their product to match the desires of the Texas buyers and that's what the whole country gets.
(DIR) Post #B1SKyxwqBwjoZJ6bWC by jhavok@mstdn.party
2025-12-21T00:12:04Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky @datarama My home state has seeen plenty of those charter school grifters. Typical behavior is hiring friends and family to do things they are completely unqualified for until the house of cards falls down.
(DIR) Post #B1SsXCL2UaBjX4M4Jc by dgodon@mastodon.online
2025-12-21T06:28:00Z
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@futurebird excellent thread. “The Billionaire Boys Club” (as Diane Ravitch” called them) has long disregarded what educators know (some of which you’re sharing here) and impose their beliefs for other people’s children
(DIR) Post #B1TOcilEZRYM4PHiPw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2025-12-21T12:27:32Z
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@dasgrueneblatt @jhavok "What makes large classes sometimes work and sometimes not?"Shared values and previous time investment. But my post was *not* about class size. It was about how many students I have at a time. That is, how many students I'm responsible for over the course of one semester or year. It's not about how may people are in the room. It's about how many people I need to know and give feedback to. There is an upper limit and often it's exceeded.
(DIR) Post #B1TZOB7jw013Bk50l6 by ThreeSigma@mastodon.online
2025-12-21T14:28:12Z
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@futurebird This exactly. What teachers need IMHO is more tools to help associate the student names to their faces to their thinking.
(DIR) Post #B1Tyd12KDdGr6Jid4S by lufthans@mastodon.social
2025-12-21T19:11:00Z
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@futurebird @semitones teachers do so much unseen work, thanks for doing it and also thanks for talking about itI'm an engineer from a family of teachers and I don't know the scope of how much they do because it just happens